General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJournalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations.
-George Orwell
newfie11
(8,159 posts)pscot
(21,024 posts)But that's just silly.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)pscot
(21,024 posts)That quote is still foolish. Journalism is not a purely adversarial exercise. Surely it's possible to cover a city council meeting or a fire without throwing rocks at the participants. He's obviously defining journalism narrowly, for his own purpose.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)Greenwald and Snowden have done exactly that, are in trouble for telling the truth about liars.
pscot
(21,024 posts)But the news we get in the Daily Fishwrap is also journalism, and just as necessary to a free society.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)It's pathetic.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)of the people on the planet see only journalism.
What all those millions of people missing that you have access to? Please, share it with us along with some credible back up.
Here, let me help so we don't waste time. 'He's a narcissist' is not credible evidence of what you are claiming. Nearly all of our Corporate Media shills along with many Politicians, are Naricssists. So with that out of the way, we are looking for substantive proof of this invisible and nefarious 'agenda', well to most of us, that only you and a few others appear to be aware of.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)He is also a right wing libertarian with ties to Ron and Rand Paul. This whole thing kind of reminds of Glen Beck and his right wing followers who would never in their life let some Mormon who came to their door preaching into their homes. Yet they sit in front of their TV day after day listening to a "radical" crazy Mormon, Beck, who rants pure insanity to them and the eat it up and think he is telling them the truth! Insane, isn't it?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)-- PF Dunne.
Written during the height of muckraking journalism 100 years ago.
pscot
(21,024 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)The Spanish American War was an example of media power.
pscot
(21,024 posts)Hearst just elbowed his way to the front of the parade.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)The media is in the pocket of the ruling class.
There used to be streetwise investigators out there pounding the pavement and digging for stuff from informants. Now the media is a bunch of stenographers for the official response and anyone in their own ranks who goes outside of that role is considered to be some kind of commie anarchist bomb throwing nut.
pscot
(21,024 posts)own most of it.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Here's what happened to it a decade ago:
http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/03/06/03_stinson.html
The Internet Archive has it the way it was:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040210015717/http://www.takebackthemedia.com/index.shtml
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)the following would be journalism
your home address and the code to open your garage along with the times you will be away from home
your pin number for your credit card
your credit card numbers, expiration dates and the codes on the back
your tax return
Presumably SOMEONE - you - does not want those things printed or published. Would you consider it journalism if somebody did publish them?
There is all sorts of other crap that people would not want to see published.
For example, is it good for society to flood newspapers with tons of details about the private lives of celebrities? Is it good journalism to publish (or propagate) pictures of Janet Jackson's famous nipple? or Britney Spears' crotch? It is journalism though, as long as somebody does not want it published.
Oh, and another thing people would not want published - lies about themselves.
and on and on. By that definition a lot of crap would be journalism.
I agree, despite the awesome fame of the author, it is a silly quote.
TM99
(8,352 posts)or is being disingenuous in their rhetoric.
Read the full quote. The part that comes after the colon is what clues us in on why your 'examples' are silly.
Publishing your garage door codes is neither journalism, nor is it public relations.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)of what he wrote about. This seems to be an increasingly common phenomenon within the Democratic Bubble, I certainly hope it's not contagious.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Little Star
(17,055 posts)TM99
(8,352 posts)Thanks for posting that.
It is becoming my new signature.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot.
George Orwell
TM99
(8,352 posts)to live in a society that allows me to play with fire even when it is hot and might burn. That is freedom.
Protecting me from the fire is what my parents did as a child. I am no longer a child - neither are you or anyone else commenting on this.
Am I to infer then, that fire really scares you? Perhaps it is wise for you to have someone 'protect' you from it and its affects.
I and others choose a different path.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)They are frightened and need a powerful father figure to protect them, both from external threats like terrorism and from themselves. Criticizing or countermanding the decisions of the father figure is therefore a direct attack on their perceived security, so they direct anger, scorn and ridicule toward those who do so.
Spot on, Maedhros.
I am an adult. I can respect an 'authority' based on trust but I do not need a 'mommy' or 'daddy' to assuage my fears about living in the real world of pain, suffering and death. I am hardly the pessimist, and I enjoy life to the fullest.
And there is a far greater chance of you dying from a car accident or me from the Pituitary Disease I have battled than either of us dying in a 'terrorist' attack.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)I choose to have a government to protect me from the fire you play with.
The Democratic party operates within a government, it is impossible to be a Democrat without a government. This is from John Locke, you might want to look up who he was.
TM99
(8,352 posts)and context are astounding on DU.
Adults co-create government. When government becomes 'big daddy' or 'big mommy' then the co-creation ends and tyranny in one form or another begins.
As a philosophy major I am more than familiar with Locke. Perhaps you should read a bit further before making points with quotes. Locke goes on to say:
"He that in the state of nature, would take away that freedom, that belongs to anyone in that state, must necessarily be supposed to have a design to take away everything else, that freedom being the foundation of all the rest. As he that in the state of society, would take away the freedom belonging to those of that society or commonwealth, must be supposed to design to take away from them everything else".
Let's try this one as well and see if you can understand it within the context of the current situation and conversation.
"Whenever the power that is put in any hands for the government of the people, and the protection of our properties, is applied to other ends, and made use of to impoverish, harass or subdue them to the arbitrary and irregular commands of those that have it; there it presently becomes tyranny, whether those that thus use it are one or many".
Locke was quite clear that a revolution is not only a right but an obligation even given the actions of a civil society and its form of governance. So, perhaps you should take your own advise and look up a bit more on Locke and read fully his Second Treatise before commenting further to make your point in seeming contradiction to my own.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)it's tough to understand it. You made a claim, that is not a metaphor.
I don't know what you think this Locke quote says.
Apparently you think it contradicts what I said, while actually it reinforces it. Notice that he still differentiates between freedoms in a state of nature and in society.
TM99
(8,352 posts)So governments actually protect us from a very literal fire that might burn us without their protection? Governments are actually made of 'big mommies' & 'big daddies'.
With regards to Locke and his political philosophy of liberalism, please read the second sentence very carefully, then reread the quoted passage on revolution.
Locke most certainly believed the freedom was a 'natural' state. To protect it, we, as adults (my point!) co-create a society. The form of government we choose must then protect those freedoms for not just the individual (as it is in a natural state) but for us all. If and when the government stops doing that (i.e. becomes a tyranny via the 'big mommy' or 'big daddy' metaphor I used) then revolution is not just a right but an expectation in order to form another government that will do so.
His writings influenced the Founding Fathers, you know, having read the Declaration of Independence, I really don't need to quote it, right? The Constitution that followed ensures that our adult co-created government continues to 'protect' those inalienable & natural 'freedoms' via the concept of 'rights' - the Right to Free Speech, the Right to Privacy, the Right to Freedom of Expression of Religion, etc. etc. etc.
Now, given the fact that the current NSA fueled scandal of total surveillance is trouncing on many of those Constitutionally protected freedoms, well....I do believe you are smart enough to understand what comes next.
Bluntly, Locke is an important philosopher to really grok with regards to our country & its founding. His Enlightenment Liberalism influenced our Declaration of Independence & Constitution greatly. Read his Second Treatise and study it within the context of other Enlightenment Philosophers like Hobbs, Hume, & Rousseau.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)that you should be allowed to start any fires, anywhere because of your freedumb.
I quoted part of Lovke I agreed with, which just happens to be the part that the FF paid attention to. We could get into discussions about how the FF did not religiously follow Locke, but there would be no value to do so with a fire bug, especially one who reads (or watches) too much science fiction.
BTW Rousseau had a big following in France, not in the USA.
TM99
(8,352 posts)Your reading comprehension is atrocious.
Kittwampus' Orwell quote is about 'playing with a fire', so where exactly did I state that I was going to start any metaphoric fires because of my 'freedumb'? No where.
And what the fuck is up with liberal Democrats calling 'freedoms' 'freedumbs' all of a sudden? Without continued promotion, expression, and protection of 'freedom', you won't be able to be much of a 'progressive dog' about anything.
And finally the truth comes out that you only quoted the part YOU agreed with. And actually, the part I did was followed by the Founding Fathers as well. You might remember we did this little thing called the American Revolution to break away from the tyranny of King George. But hey, like everyone else today, pick and choose what fits your neatly packaged little thought processes.
You mean a Frenchman - Rousseau - had no bearing on the founding of this country? Well, blow me away, because I thought quite a few did both directly and indirectly - Comte de Rochambeau, Lafayette, Jean-Paul Marat, and even King Louis XVI.
It is probably wise to back away from further discussions as it doesn't appear you could keep up.
Much love from a liberal 'firebug'.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)I get that it's tough to walk away from your outrageous claim of freedom to burn stuff, but trying to blame it on Orwell is pathetic. The man is dead, he can't defend himself from you.
Why don't you ask Orwell what he thinks I said, he might get it right.
TM99
(8,352 posts)"Freedom to burn stuff"? "Blaming it on Orwell"? You have utterly failed at reading comprehension. You can not recognize metaphor, analogies, or follow a conversation that you interjected yourself into.
Whatever. At this point, I am walking away. It is frustrating trying to communicate with those who can't. Have a nice morning.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)If you don't like what you said, don't say it.
vanlassie
(5,668 posts)ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...provided by Cerridwen on your OP about the Orwell quote:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023497311#post3
So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot. The warmongering to which the English intelligentsia gave themselves up in the period 1935-9 was largely based on a sense of personal immunity. The attitude was very different in France, where the military service is hard to dodge and even literary men know the weight of a pack.
True, the Orwell quote is very relevant to the current attempts to suppress investigative journalism. Just not in the way you seem to think.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)has an agenda and omits and massages facts to create- they are engaged in public relations like Greewald
TM99
(8,352 posts)presented more than just the 'fact', Ma'am.
Was he not a journalist? Would it have been better had McCarthyism silenced him?
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)either inadvertently or intentionally and then refuse to correct himself?
TM99
(8,352 posts)Greenwald has committed those 'violations'. Thus far all that was given to him by Snowden and he has reported has been proven accurate.
Here is a wonderful summary in case you missed it:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023484001
Have a great morning!
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...and then refusing to correct oneself: got any maps for us today?
last1standing
(11,709 posts)n/t
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)An excellent, if short-lived, magazine to correct the paper of record:
http://liesofourtimes.org/
forestpath
(3,102 posts)thesquanderer
(11,982 posts)Haven't found evidence that the OP quote is Orwell.
http://blogs.umb.edu/quoteunquote/2012/09/25/even-if-it-looks-sounds-walks-and-quacks-like-an-orwell-quote-it-still-might-not-be-an-orwell-quote/
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:George_Orwell#Attribution.3F_-_.22Journalism_is_printing_something....22
It is amazing how eager people are to repeat things on the internet without checking veracity...
(edit: Not to say that it isn't an interesting quote!)
randome
(34,845 posts)I thought enough people understood at the time that it was not a valid quote. But apparently it's too good to pass up.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
George II
(67,782 posts)DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)I like this one too!!
for all the dead, harassed and incarcerated people who spoke out for ALL of us!
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)work under or have their paychecks signed by "PR execs"
leftstreet
(36,102 posts)Rebellious Republican
(5,029 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)gulliver
(13,179 posts)...only stupid.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you. ― Oscar Wilde
ProSense
(116,464 posts)That's the most bizarre definition of "journalism" I've ever seen.
ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)...agreed to by both the Tea Party to the anti-American left:
If you like with some screed, no matter how far fetched, then it's journalism being censored by the lamestream media.
If you don't, then it's propaganda that only traitors and shills could possibly talk about.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
Egnever
(21,506 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)TM99
(8,352 posts)However, instead of putting it in Orwells mouth and saying bluntly that he once wrote it, he should say the statement is, instead, often merely attributed to Orwell.
I look forward to finding the source some day.
Attributed but not completely proven not to be from Orwell is what this one particular blogger is stating. Who exactly is Frank Heron?
Now that we have cleared that up, it still fits to a tee.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....last night I actually saw it attributed to Abraham Lincoln, although that may have been a joke.
Here's an interesting discussion, pointing out the several people who "may" have said it in one form or another:
http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/01/20/news-suppress/
TM99
(8,352 posts)Thank you.