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Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations. (Original Post) Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 OP
He sure nailed it. Nt newfie11 Aug 2013 #1
I admire Orwell pscot Aug 2013 #2
Check your auto-signature. n/t Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #4
I'm aware of my sig line pscot Aug 2013 #6
It is about the revolutionary nature of telling the truth in a sea of lies and liars. Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #7
I agree pscot Aug 2013 #9
You swallow what a lawyer w/ an agenda says whole even when it's proven he lies & omits facts KittyWampus Aug 2013 #20
Enlighten us. What is this nefarious agenda that you seem to be able to see when a vast majority sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #33
Don't forget Andy823 Aug 2013 #51
How about this quote? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #11
Mr. Dooley was an ironist pscot Aug 2013 #21
He was a reflection of the times... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #23
It reflected the times pscot Aug 2013 #34
It's just the opposite today.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #35
6 or 7 rich old white guys pscot Aug 2013 #45
One of the best sites on that was "takebackthemedia.com"... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #48
by that definition then hfojvt Aug 2013 #57
Yet another individual who can't read TM99 Aug 2013 #63
You might admire him, but you have succeeded in completely missing the point Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #40
k&r Puzzledtraveller Aug 2013 #3
k&r Little Star Aug 2013 #5
Wow - great quote. TM99 Aug 2013 #8
:) Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #12
K&R nt bemildred Aug 2013 #10
So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire KittyWampus Aug 2013 #13
I still prefer as an adult TM99 Aug 2013 #17
That's why they are Authoritarian. Maedhros Aug 2013 #25
Bingo! TM99 Aug 2013 #27
Not in my yard, your freedom ends when it threatens others. Progressive dog Aug 2013 #42
Seriously, the assumptions and inability to understand metaphor TM99 Aug 2013 #43
Seriously, you didn't use metaphor so Progressive dog Aug 2013 #44
Seriously? TM99 Aug 2013 #59
A whole speech isn't necessary to continue claiming Progressive dog Aug 2013 #66
Well I see that the idiots have taken over here as well. TM99 Aug 2013 #67
My readin comp. is fine, your responses are just funny. Progressive dog Aug 2013 #70
Please quit this. TM99 Aug 2013 #71
Just repeating what you said Progressive dog Aug 2013 #72
+10000000000 vanlassie Aug 2013 #60
And here's the context... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #28
Journalism is about presenting facts so the public can make informed decisions. When a journalist KittyWampus Aug 2013 #14
Edward R. Murrow TM99 Aug 2013 #15
Did he commit lies of omission? Did he present old information as new? Did he make gross errors KittyWampus Aug 2013 #19
Your camp has failed to prove definitively that TM99 Aug 2013 #22
Speaking of making gross errors... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #29
You really don't understand the concepts involved, do you? last1standing Aug 2013 #31
Clapper. Jackpine Radical Aug 2013 #36
Lies Of Our Times Octafish Aug 2013 #16
K&R forestpath Aug 2013 #18
The trouble with quotes on the internet... thesquanderer Aug 2013 #24
I saw that, too, a few months ago. randome Aug 2013 #38
You can see the real quote in this column.......... George II Aug 2013 #55
That is so lame..... DeSwiss Aug 2013 #58
K&R. blackspade Aug 2013 #26
K&R. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #30
'The pen is mightier than the sword' felix_numinous Aug 2013 #32
K&R Enthusiast Aug 2013 #37
The problem is too many "journalists" have no choice but to Blue_Tires Aug 2013 #39
DURec leftstreet Aug 2013 #41
K&R Rebellious Republican Aug 2013 #46
Fantastic quote. Thank you. liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #47
K&R idwiyo Aug 2013 #49
It's like Oscar Wilde... gulliver Aug 2013 #50
Here you go: Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #53
What is Fox Noise? ProSense Aug 2013 #52
It's simple extremist nutcase ideology ConservativeDemocrat Aug 2013 #56
Well played Egnever Aug 2013 #68
If only Orwell had written that. But he didn't! George II Aug 2013 #54
You have posted that several times. TM99 Aug 2013 #61
... Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #62
It has actually been attributed to several people.... George II Aug 2013 #64
That is a much better source for a discussion on the topic. TM99 Aug 2013 #65
knr Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #69

pscot

(21,024 posts)
6. I'm aware of my sig line
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:20 AM
Aug 2013

That quote is still foolish. Journalism is not a purely adversarial exercise. Surely it's possible to cover a city council meeting or a fire without throwing rocks at the participants. He's obviously defining journalism narrowly, for his own purpose.

 

Fire Walk With Me

(38,893 posts)
7. It is about the revolutionary nature of telling the truth in a sea of lies and liars.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:22 AM
Aug 2013

Greenwald and Snowden have done exactly that, are in trouble for telling the truth about liars.

pscot

(21,024 posts)
9. I agree
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:32 AM
Aug 2013

But the news we get in the Daily Fishwrap is also journalism, and just as necessary to a free society.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
20. You swallow what a lawyer w/ an agenda says whole even when it's proven he lies & omits facts
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 12:34 PM
Aug 2013

It's pathetic.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
33. Enlighten us. What is this nefarious agenda that you seem to be able to see when a vast majority
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 02:12 PM
Aug 2013

of the people on the planet see only journalism.

What all those millions of people missing that you have access to? Please, share it with us along with some credible back up.

Here, let me help so we don't waste time. 'He's a narcissist' is not credible evidence of what you are claiming. Nearly all of our Corporate Media shills along with many Politicians, are Naricssists. So with that out of the way, we are looking for substantive proof of this invisible and nefarious 'agenda', well to most of us, that only you and a few others appear to be aware of.

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
51. Don't forget
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 08:44 PM
Aug 2013

He is also a right wing libertarian with ties to Ron and Rand Paul. This whole thing kind of reminds of Glen Beck and his right wing followers who would never in their life let some Mormon who came to their door preaching into their homes. Yet they sit in front of their TV day after day listening to a "radical" crazy Mormon, Beck, who rants pure insanity to them and the eat it up and think he is telling them the truth! Insane, isn't it?

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
11. How about this quote?
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 12:12 PM
Aug 2013
"The newspaper does everything for us. It runs the police force and the banks, commands the militia, controls the legislature, baptizes the young, marries the foolish, comforts the afflicted, afflicts the comfortable, buries the dead and roasts them afterword".

-- PF Dunne.


Written during the height of muckraking journalism 100 years ago.
 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
35. It's just the opposite today....
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 02:51 PM
Aug 2013

The media is in the pocket of the ruling class.

There used to be streetwise investigators out there pounding the pavement and digging for stuff from informants. Now the media is a bunch of stenographers for the official response and anyone in their own ranks who goes outside of that role is considered to be some kind of commie anarchist bomb throwing nut.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
57. by that definition then
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 12:04 AM
Aug 2013

the following would be journalism

your home address and the code to open your garage along with the times you will be away from home
your pin number for your credit card
your credit card numbers, expiration dates and the codes on the back
your tax return


Presumably SOMEONE - you - does not want those things printed or published. Would you consider it journalism if somebody did publish them?

There is all sorts of other crap that people would not want to see published.

For example, is it good for society to flood newspapers with tons of details about the private lives of celebrities? Is it good journalism to publish (or propagate) pictures of Janet Jackson's famous nipple? or Britney Spears' crotch? It is journalism though, as long as somebody does not want it published.

Oh, and another thing people would not want published - lies about themselves.

and on and on. By that definition a lot of crap would be journalism.

I agree, despite the awesome fame of the author, it is a silly quote.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
63. Yet another individual who can't read
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 10:18 AM
Aug 2013

or is being disingenuous in their rhetoric.

Read the full quote. The part that comes after the colon is what clues us in on why your 'examples' are silly.

Publishing your garage door codes is neither journalism, nor is it public relations.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
40. You might admire him, but you have succeeded in completely missing the point
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 04:32 PM
Aug 2013

of what he wrote about. This seems to be an increasingly common phenomenon within the Democratic Bubble, I certainly hope it's not contagious.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
13. So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 12:15 PM
Aug 2013

So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot.

George Orwell


 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
17. I still prefer as an adult
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 12:25 PM
Aug 2013

to live in a society that allows me to play with fire even when it is hot and might burn. That is freedom.

Protecting me from the fire is what my parents did as a child. I am no longer a child - neither are you or anyone else commenting on this.

Am I to infer then, that fire really scares you? Perhaps it is wise for you to have someone 'protect' you from it and its affects.

I and others choose a different path.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
25. That's why they are Authoritarian.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 01:00 PM
Aug 2013

They are frightened and need a powerful father figure to protect them, both from external threats like terrorism and from themselves. Criticizing or countermanding the decisions of the father figure is therefore a direct attack on their perceived security, so they direct anger, scorn and ridicule toward those who do so.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
27. Bingo!
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 01:07 PM
Aug 2013

Spot on, Maedhros.

I am an adult. I can respect an 'authority' based on trust but I do not need a 'mommy' or 'daddy' to assuage my fears about living in the real world of pain, suffering and death. I am hardly the pessimist, and I enjoy life to the fullest.

And there is a far greater chance of you dying from a car accident or me from the Pituitary Disease I have battled than either of us dying in a 'terrorist' attack.

Progressive dog

(6,900 posts)
42. Not in my yard, your freedom ends when it threatens others.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 05:15 PM
Aug 2013

I choose to have a government to protect me from the fire you play with.
The Democratic party operates within a government, it is impossible to be a Democrat without a government. This is from John Locke, you might want to look up who he was.

"To properly understand political power and trace its origins, we must consider the state that all people are in naturally. That is a state of perfect freedom of acting and disposing of their own possessions and persons as they think fit within the bounds of the law of nature. People in this state do not have to ask permission to act or depend on the will of others to arrange matters on their behalf. The natural state is also one of equality in which all power and jurisdiction is reciprocal and no one has more than another. It is evident that all human beings – as creatures belonging to the same species and rank and born indiscriminately with all the same natural advantages and faculties – are equal amongst themselves. They have no relationship of subordination or subjection unless God (the lord and master of them all) had clearly set one person above another and conferred on him an undoubted right to dominion and sovereignty."
 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
43. Seriously, the assumptions and inability to understand metaphor
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 05:39 PM
Aug 2013

and context are astounding on DU.

Adults co-create government. When government becomes 'big daddy' or 'big mommy' then the co-creation ends and tyranny in one form or another begins.

As a philosophy major I am more than familiar with Locke. Perhaps you should read a bit further before making points with quotes. Locke goes on to say:

"He that in the state of nature, would take away that freedom, that belongs to anyone in that state, must necessarily be supposed to have a design to take away everything else, that freedom being the foundation of all the rest. As he that in the state of society, would take away the freedom belonging to those of that society or commonwealth, must be supposed to design to take away from them everything else".


Let's try this one as well and see if you can understand it within the context of the current situation and conversation.

"Whenever the power that is put in any hands for the government of the people, and the protection of our properties, is applied to other ends, and made use of to impoverish, harass or subdue them to the arbitrary and irregular commands of those that have it; there it presently becomes tyranny, whether those that thus use it are one or many".


Locke was quite clear that a revolution is not only a right but an obligation even given the actions of a civil society and its form of governance. So, perhaps you should take your own advise and look up a bit more on Locke and read fully his Second Treatise before commenting further to make your point in seeming contradiction to my own.

Progressive dog

(6,900 posts)
44. Seriously, you didn't use metaphor so
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 06:07 PM
Aug 2013

it's tough to understand it. You made a claim, that is not a metaphor.
I don't know what you think this Locke quote says.

"He that in the state of nature, would take away that freedom, that belongs to anyone in that state, must necessarily be supposed to have a design to take away everything else, that freedom being the foundation of all the rest. As he that in the state of society, would take away the freedom belonging to those of that society or commonwealth, must be supposed to design to take away from them everything else".



Apparently you think it contradicts what I said, while actually it reinforces it. Notice that he still differentiates between freedoms in a state of nature and in society.
 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
59. Seriously?
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 03:41 AM
Aug 2013

So governments actually protect us from a very literal fire that might burn us without their protection? Governments are actually made of 'big mommies' & 'big daddies'.

With regards to Locke and his political philosophy of liberalism, please read the second sentence very carefully, then reread the quoted passage on revolution.

Locke most certainly believed the freedom was a 'natural' state. To protect it, we, as adults (my point!) co-create a society. The form of government we choose must then protect those freedoms for not just the individual (as it is in a natural state) but for us all. If and when the government stops doing that (i.e. becomes a tyranny via the 'big mommy' or 'big daddy' metaphor I used) then revolution is not just a right but an expectation in order to form another government that will do so.

His writings influenced the Founding Fathers, you know, having read the Declaration of Independence, I really don't need to quote it, right? The Constitution that followed ensures that our adult co-created government continues to 'protect' those inalienable & natural 'freedoms' via the concept of 'rights' - the Right to Free Speech, the Right to Privacy, the Right to Freedom of Expression of Religion, etc. etc. etc.

Now, given the fact that the current NSA fueled scandal of total surveillance is trouncing on many of those Constitutionally protected freedoms, well....I do believe you are smart enough to understand what comes next.

Bluntly, Locke is an important philosopher to really grok with regards to our country & its founding. His Enlightenment Liberalism influenced our Declaration of Independence & Constitution greatly. Read his Second Treatise and study it within the context of other Enlightenment Philosophers like Hobbs, Hume, & Rousseau.

Progressive dog

(6,900 posts)
66. A whole speech isn't necessary to continue claiming
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:39 PM
Aug 2013

that you should be allowed to start any fires, anywhere because of your freedumb.
I quoted part of Lovke I agreed with, which just happens to be the part that the FF paid attention to. We could get into discussions about how the FF did not religiously follow Locke, but there would be no value to do so with a fire bug, especially one who reads (or watches) too much science fiction.
BTW Rousseau had a big following in France, not in the USA.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
67. Well I see that the idiots have taken over here as well.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 03:13 AM
Aug 2013

Your reading comprehension is atrocious.

Kittwampus' Orwell quote is about 'playing with a fire', so where exactly did I state that I was going to start any metaphoric fires because of my 'freedumb'? No where.

And what the fuck is up with liberal Democrats calling 'freedoms' 'freedumbs' all of a sudden? Without continued promotion, expression, and protection of 'freedom', you won't be able to be much of a 'progressive dog' about anything.

And finally the truth comes out that you only quoted the part YOU agreed with. And actually, the part I did was followed by the Founding Fathers as well. You might remember we did this little thing called the American Revolution to break away from the tyranny of King George. But hey, like everyone else today, pick and choose what fits your neatly packaged little thought processes.

You mean a Frenchman - Rousseau - had no bearing on the founding of this country? Well, blow me away, because I thought quite a few did both directly and indirectly - Comte de Rochambeau, Lafayette, Jean-Paul Marat, and even King Louis XVI.

It is probably wise to back away from further discussions as it doesn't appear you could keep up.

Much love from a liberal 'firebug'.

Progressive dog

(6,900 posts)
70. My readin comp. is fine, your responses are just funny.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:58 PM
Aug 2013

I get that it's tough to walk away from your outrageous claim of freedom to burn stuff, but trying to blame it on Orwell is pathetic. The man is dead, he can't defend himself from you.

Why don't you ask Orwell what he thinks I said, he might get it right.

And finally the truth comes out that you only quoted the part YOU agreed with. And actually, the part I did was followed by the Founding Fathers as well.
LOL
 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
71. Please quit this.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 03:00 PM
Aug 2013

"Freedom to burn stuff"? "Blaming it on Orwell"? You have utterly failed at reading comprehension. You can not recognize metaphor, analogies, or follow a conversation that you interjected yourself into.



Whatever. At this point, I am walking away. It is frustrating trying to communicate with those who can't. Have a nice morning.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
28. And here's the context...
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 01:09 PM
Aug 2013

...provided by Cerridwen on your OP about the Orwell quote:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023497311#post3

So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot. The warmongering to which the English intelligentsia gave themselves up in the period 1935-9 was largely based on a sense of personal immunity. The attitude was very different in France, where the military service is hard to dodge and even literary men know the weight of a pack.


True, the Orwell quote is very relevant to the current attempts to suppress investigative journalism. Just not in the way you seem to think.
 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
14. Journalism is about presenting facts so the public can make informed decisions. When a journalist
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 12:17 PM
Aug 2013

has an agenda and omits and massages facts to create- they are engaged in public relations… like Greewald

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
15. Edward R. Murrow
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 12:22 PM
Aug 2013

presented more than just the 'fact', Ma'am.

Was he not a journalist? Would it have been better had McCarthyism silenced him?

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
19. Did he commit lies of omission? Did he present old information as new? Did he make gross errors
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 12:33 PM
Aug 2013

either inadvertently or intentionally and then refuse to correct himself?

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
22. Your camp has failed to prove definitively that
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 12:48 PM
Aug 2013

Greenwald has committed those 'violations'. Thus far all that was given to him by Snowden and he has reported has been proven accurate.

Here is a wonderful summary in case you missed it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023484001

Have a great morning!

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
29. Speaking of making gross errors...
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 01:10 PM
Aug 2013

...and then refusing to correct oneself: got any maps for us today?

thesquanderer

(11,982 posts)
24. The trouble with quotes on the internet...
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 12:55 PM
Aug 2013
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it is difficult to determine whether or not they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln

Haven't found evidence that the OP quote is Orwell.

http://blogs.umb.edu/quoteunquote/2012/09/25/even-if-it-looks-sounds-walks-and-quacks-like-an-orwell-quote-it-still-might-not-be-an-orwell-quote/

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:George_Orwell#Attribution.3F_-_.22Journalism_is_printing_something....22

It is amazing how eager people are to repeat things on the internet without checking veracity...

(edit: Not to say that it isn't an interesting quote!)
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
38. I saw that, too, a few months ago.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 04:29 PM
Aug 2013

I thought enough people understood at the time that it was not a valid quote. But apparently it's too good to pass up.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

felix_numinous

(5,198 posts)
32. 'The pen is mightier than the sword'
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 02:04 PM
Aug 2013

I like this one too!!

for all the dead, harassed and incarcerated people who spoke out for ALL of us!

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
39. The problem is too many "journalists" have no choice but to
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 04:31 PM
Aug 2013

work under or have their paychecks signed by "PR execs"

 

Fire Walk With Me

(38,893 posts)
53. Here you go:
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 08:51 PM
Aug 2013

“If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

ConservativeDemocrat

(2,720 posts)
56. It's simple extremist nutcase ideology
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:37 PM
Aug 2013

...agreed to by both the Tea Party to the anti-American left:

If you like with some screed, no matter how far fetched, then it's journalism being censored by the lamestream media.
If you don't, then it's propaganda that only traitors and shills could possibly talk about.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
61. You have posted that several times.
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:47 AM
Aug 2013
However, instead of putting it in Orwell’s mouth and saying bluntly that he “once wrote” it, he should say the statement is, instead, often merely attributed to Orwell.


I look forward to finding the source some day.


Attributed but not completely proven not to be from Orwell is what this one particular blogger is stating. Who exactly is Frank Heron?

Now that we have cleared that up, it still fits to a tee.

George II

(67,782 posts)
64. It has actually been attributed to several people....
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:24 PM
Aug 2013

....last night I actually saw it attributed to Abraham Lincoln, although that may have been a joke.

Here's an interesting discussion, pointing out the several people who "may" have said it in one form or another:

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/01/20/news-suppress/

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Journalism is printing wh...