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Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:21 PM

The Chief Judge of Secret FISA Court Admits In Written Statement That It Cannot Properly Oversee NSA

It has been no secret that the FISA court has effectively operated as a rubber-stamping outfit for NSA surveillance programs. However, when the chief judge on that court, embarrassed by reports of NSA violations, admits that it really isn't intended to be an oversight entity?



Court: Ability to police U.S. spying program limited

The chief judge of the secret FISA court, U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton, has admitted in a written statement to The Washington Post that the court cannot properly oversee NSA surveillance.

Per The Washington Post:

The leader of the secret court that is supposed to provide critical oversight of the government’s vast spying programs said that its ability do so is limited and that it must trust the government to report when it improperly spies on Americans.

The chief judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court said the court lacks the tools to independently verify how often the government’s surveillance breaks the court's rules that aim to protect Americans’ privacy. Without taking drastic steps, it also cannot check the veracity of the government’s assertions that the violations its staff members report are unintentional mistakes.


Said Walton:

The FISC is forced to rely upon the accuracy of the information that is provided to the Court...The FISC does not have the capacity to investigate issues of noncompliance.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/court-ability-to-police-us-spying-program-limited/2013/08/15/4a8c8c44-05cd-11e3-a07f-49ddc7417125_story.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/15/1231553/-Chief-Judge-of-Secret-FISA-Court-Admits-It-Cannot-Properly-Oversee-NSA

40 replies, 1932 views

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Arrow 40 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Chief Judge of Secret FISA Court Admits In Written Statement That It Cannot Properly Oversee NSA (Original post)
kpete Aug 2013 OP
nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #1
PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #2
dkf Aug 2013 #11
PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #12
dkf Aug 2013 #15
backscatter712 Aug 2013 #3
limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #4
dkf Aug 2013 #10
Catherina Aug 2013 #17
KoKo Aug 2013 #38
X_Digger Aug 2013 #22
caseymoz Aug 2013 #29
grasswire Aug 2013 #5
kpete Aug 2013 #8
Baitball Blogger Aug 2013 #6
neverforget Aug 2013 #7
dkf Aug 2013 #9
sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #13
Th1onein Aug 2013 #26
rug Aug 2013 #14
ProSense Aug 2013 #16
AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #18
ProSense Aug 2013 #20
KittyWampus Aug 2013 #21
KittyWampus Aug 2013 #19
Melinda Aug 2013 #25
ohheckyeah Aug 2013 #28
caseymoz Aug 2013 #31
nenagh Aug 2013 #32
quakerboy Aug 2013 #23
DirkGently Aug 2013 #24
ohheckyeah Aug 2013 #27
Coyotl Aug 2013 #30
Waiting For Everyman Aug 2013 #33
kpete Aug 2013 #35
LineNew Reply ^
Wilms Aug 2013 #34
muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #36
muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #37
WillyT Aug 2013 #39
woo me with science Aug 2013 #40

Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:22 PM

1. The facade is falling, and falling fast... methinks

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:25 PM

2. So, NO oversight.

NSA FAIL.

Overturn the patriot act and all the other "surveillance laws." Send in crews with sledge hammers and metal grinders to purge all database equipment from this program.

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:49 PM

11. All of Obama's assertions are falling apart.

 

It sucks that this didn't happen under Bush. Now Democrats will be tainted for the cover up.

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Response to dkf (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:55 PM

12. it sucks.

I do not like it at all. I do not like taking a stand that is against the person I voted for.

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:04 PM

15. Me too!!! Gave money, canvassed...

 

Ugh.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:32 PM

3. I want judicial oversight of the three-letter-agencies moved to the mainline federal courts.

Contrary to popular belief, Federal district and circuit courts are perfectly capable of managing and protecting sensitive information. So there's no need for an uber-special-secret court for the spooky stuff. They can go to a regular federal judge like any law enforcement agency, present their evidence, in the judge's chambers if necessary, and get a warrant like the Fourth Amendment mandates.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:33 PM

4. Jeez thanks Judge. It would have been nice if these judges had like, done their job.

They should have spoke up about this years ago.

I guess they didn't want to rock the boat. Or stop the gravy train. Either way.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:47 PM

10. Nobody would have known what he was talking about if not for SNOWDEN.

 

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Response to dkf (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:19 PM

17. And that's ^^the truth^^. "Courage is contagious". n/t

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Response to dkf (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:56 AM

38. None of us would have known how massive it was, either...if not for Snowden.

The whole thing is out of control. Private Contractors, Storage Facilities being built to house the massive surveillance data that they don't admit to collecting and holding forever. Who could keep on top of all this? Congress not allowed to see how it really worked...the people collecting the data not properly supervised.

The way it's dribbling out allows us to at least try to digest it rather than be overwhelmed with one big story that would have been scoffed at and gone away because it was too complicated for most of the public to understand.

My local newspaper just announced a new "NSA Facility" to open in my state providing 100 jobs. The article stated that the "Facility" would not be engaged in "Surveillance" but in "Research." What the hell kind of research...they didn't say.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:29 PM

22. Hell, they could have been charged themselves, had they said too much that was not public.

Fine place to be, eh?

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:25 AM

29. Then he would have had to flee to Russia.


He would have been the whistleblower doing what Snowden did, and people would be smearing him as a traitor. He looks like a guy with a family who values his reputation and position, like the majority of government workers.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:33 PM

5. what are the "drastic steps"? nt

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Response to grasswire (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:37 PM

8. great ?

sounds like the Judge sees the ship sinking to me...

peace, kp

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:35 PM

6. It seems that nobody wants to take ownership of this runaway train.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:36 PM

7. Regarding the Constitution, "trust us" is not acceptable.

The NSA and all intelligence agencies need to have rigorous oversight unlike now.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:46 PM

9. Boom...game, set, and match.

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:57 PM

13. There goes another of the excuses as to why all this is just fine. 'We have the FISA Court that

oversees what the NSA is doing'.

Guess we don't. The 'Left' whiners, racists, Paulbots, purists or whatever else they've been called, were right once again.

Never trust secret courts, secret warrants, secret kill lists etc. In the end when the 'secrets' are revealed, we find out why they had to be so secret and usually it's no good.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 12:42 AM

26. "In the end when the 'secrets' are revealed, we find out why they had to be so secret and usually

it's no good."

Amen to that Sabrina 1! They keep it all secret, "for our own good," and then when we find out, it always turns out to be for THEIR own good.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:58 PM

14. He's a hack Bush appointee but he did write something telling regarding the Guantanamo cases.

"Even the most widespread rumors are often inaccurate in part if not in whole. The court's only point is that otherwise unreliable hearsay cannot be deemed reliable because there is other unreliable hearsay to the same effect."


http://mobile.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE57I5ZZ20090819

I can only imagine what these warrant applications look like.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:12 PM

16. This is where

"The Chief Judge of Secret FISA Court Admits In Written Statement That It Cannot Properly Oversee NSA"

...Blumenthal's bill comes in.

Blumenthal Applauds President Obama’s Support For Special Advocate In FISA Courts

Blumenthal Introduced Senate Legislation Last Week To Provide For Adversarial Process

Friday, August 9, 2013
(Hartford, CT) – Today, U.S. Senator Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) issued the following statement after President Obama announced the he would support appointing a special advocate to the FISA courts to argue on behalf of the right to privacy and other individual rights of the American people. Recently, Blumenthal introduced the FISA Court Reform Act of 2013 , which would create such an advocate.

“I am tremendously pleased to hear President Obama’s support for appointing a special advocate to the FISA courts, an idea that is at the heart of legislation I introduced last week. Recent revelations about the size and scope of the nation’s foreign surveillance activities prove – once again – that the Constitution needs a zealous advocate. My legislation would empower such an advocate to protect precious Constitutional rights if threatened by government overreaching, and thereby strike a critical balance that serves the interests of both liberty and security. The Special Advocate’s client would be the Constitution and the individual rights of the American people. President Obama’s endorsement of this general framework today is a strong step in the right direction.

“As a skilled lawyer, President Obama knows that courts commonly make better decisions when they hear both sides. His support for this commonsense concept should give this cause compelling momentum. His statement reflects that he's receptive to reforms that make the FISA court
more open and accountable – more like other federal courts and less like a secret court, making secret law through secret opinions.”

http://www.blumenthal.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/blumenthal-applauds-president-obamas-support-for-special-advocate-in-fisa-courts

Blumenthal Unveils Major Legislation To Reform FISA Courts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023388210

Critics react to Obama's proposed surveillance reforms
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023462757

ACLU: NSA Legislation Since the Leaks Began
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023469450

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Response to ProSense (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:23 PM

18. You know this means Jack if the Republicans aren't on board with it

We need the support of the House of Representatives to pass any legislation.

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Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:28 PM

20. OK, so what are you expecting to happen,

nothing?

Congress is going to have to address these issues or nothing will change.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:28 PM

21. No, if I understand correctly… isn't this judge commenting on what happens AFTER warrants are given?

Or am I wrong.

Cause it sounds like this judge is saying we have no control of what happens after we approve warrants.

He is talking about 'noncompliance' which would be Congress's job to oversee and investigate.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:27 PM

19. Why would FISA court provide the oversight that CONGRESS should be doing? Hello?

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 12:39 AM

25. Because the law requires FISC judicial oversight: 50 USC § 1803(h) and FISC rules of procedure 13a

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 12:47 AM

28. ........

Many of us called bullshit on the FISA Court oversight only to be told we were paranoid.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:49 AM

31. I believe it's been revealed


that Congressional oversight has been similarly ineffective.

Besides that point, I agree with the posters above.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #19)


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 12:13 AM

23. Who watches the watchers?

Im betting their corporate masters have spies on their spies. But we the people sure as hell dont.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 12:20 AM

24. Surprise! Surprise? Surprise. n/t

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 12:45 AM

27. What a

surprise.



How many times was it said here that there was nothing to worry about because the FISA Court was overseeing things. LOL

What's next? It's all the fault of the Congress?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:31 AM

30. ROFLMFAO: "it must trust the government to report when it improperly spies on Americans"

On edit: This is equivalent to not having police, just a check in door at the prison for those who violate laws.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 06:43 AM

33. Bottom line: the NSA has no oversight.

Great.

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #33)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:48 AM

35. pretty much

correct


peace, kp

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:16 AM

34. ^

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:42 AM

36. But Booz Allen Hamilton would never cover anything up, surely?

I mean, they have their ex-vice president installed as DNI, especially to keep careful control of the NSA. Surely we can totally trust a private company, majority owned by a hedge fund, to only do what is completely constitutional, moral, and for the good of the USA, rather than, say, its own profit?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:43 AM

37. Anyway, who's going to listen to a Black Helicopter Judge? (nt)

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 12:14 PM

39. K & R !!!


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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:31 PM

40. K&R

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