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Wed Aug 14, 2013, 04:33 PM

Fast food joint pays workers $12 an hour, and lives to tell the tale

(snip)
In Dearborn Heights, Mich., a city just outside of Detroit, a new burger joint is trying to give workers a reason to clock-in to work each day.

Moo Cluck Moo is paying its workers a minimum wage of $12 per hour, over four dollars more than Michigan’s $7.40 per hour minimum wage. The reason? Simple: “It’s just the right thing to do,” said Allen Fisher, the restaurant’s managing partner, on MSNBC Tuesday.

“We manage our costs effectively, we use the best product that we can afford, and we pass that along to our employees,” said Fisher. “It’s not an easy job to do. We demand a lot out of our people, but we pay them for that.”

In addition to higher wages, said Fisher, Moo Cluck Moo has an exclusive training program that qualifies each of its employees for a better job and a higher pay rate. The restaurant also provides uniforms, meals, and (coming soon) medical benefits, he said.

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/08/06/fast-food-joint-pays-workers-12-an-hour-and-lives-to-tell-the-tale/
video at link

Progressive Caucus ‏
https://twitter.com/USProgressives
Think fast food joints can't afford to pay workers a living wage? One Michigan restaurant is already doing it.

69 replies, 8054 views

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Reply Fast food joint pays workers $12 an hour, and lives to tell the tale (Original post)
cal04 Aug 2013 OP
sharp_stick Aug 2013 #1
Brigid Aug 2013 #4
NewJeffCT Aug 2013 #16
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #34
hfojvt Aug 2013 #43
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #44
kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #2
cascadiance Aug 2013 #3
diabeticman Aug 2013 #5
crazylikafox Aug 2013 #10
bluestate10 Aug 2013 #22
bluestate10 Aug 2013 #22
7962 Aug 2013 #59
Socal31 Aug 2013 #6
KamaAina Aug 2013 #7
Jackpine Radical Aug 2013 #8
SwampG8r Aug 2013 #41
Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #13
Xithras Aug 2013 #46
theHandpuppet Aug 2013 #9
icarusxat Aug 2013 #31
Brigid Aug 2013 #38
muntrv Aug 2013 #54
theHandpuppet Aug 2013 #69
Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #11
dionysus Aug 2013 #39
Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #42
Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2013 #12
bluesbassman Aug 2013 #14
FloridaJudy Aug 2013 #35
pengillian101 Aug 2013 #63
mstinamotorcity2 Aug 2013 #68
zentrum Aug 2013 #15
vanlassie Aug 2013 #17
diverdownjt Aug 2013 #18
bluestate10 Aug 2013 #25
Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #19
bluestate10 Aug 2013 #26
Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #30
Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #33
dionysus Aug 2013 #40
killbotfactory Aug 2013 #48
last1standing Aug 2013 #53
knitter4democracy Aug 2013 #20
Heywood J Aug 2013 #21
DeSwiss Aug 2013 #24
druidity33 Aug 2013 #27
Liberal_in_LA Aug 2013 #28
npk Aug 2013 #29
Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #37
jpn.best Aug 2013 #49
avaistheone1 Aug 2013 #32
niyad Aug 2013 #36
Initech Aug 2013 #45
FrodosPet Aug 2013 #64
Initech Aug 2013 #65
Recursion Aug 2013 #47
7962 Aug 2013 #60
last1standing Aug 2013 #50
cal04 Aug 2013 #51
last1standing Aug 2013 #52
Michigan-Arizona Aug 2013 #61
last1standing Aug 2013 #62
ellenfl Aug 2013 #55
DesertDiamond Aug 2013 #56
penndragon69 Aug 2013 #57
caraher Aug 2013 #58
cal04 Aug 2013 #67
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #66

Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 04:39 PM

1. Of course they can

Almost any place can afford to pay their employees over the current minimum wage.

If they can't they're not running a very good business.

There was this franchise owner, can't recall the company offhand, complaining about having to give his employees sick days because of a new law in Connecticut. The news crew let him yammer for awhile and then nicely, I thought, showed him driving away in his Escalade.

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Response to sharp_stick (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 05:28 PM

4. And anybody who didn't get the point . . .

Would be too obtuse to brother with anyway. Now that little story is definitely worth a Less is more, as they say.

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Response to sharp_stick (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 07:02 PM

16. yeah, he'd prefer to have his sick employees coughing into the food

and getting customers sick... (the guy in CT, I mean)

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Response to sharp_stick (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 03:36 AM

34. Even a coin-op laudromat nets an average of over $70,000 a year....

That's more than enough to pay an SEIU janitorial service to pop in and professionally clean it.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #34)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:53 AM

43. in what universe?

I happen to have once owned a coin op laundromat in a little town of 1,400 people.

I can assure you it did not even GROSS $14,000 a year, and the net was not positive, especially after the town tripled my water bill. After the machines got broken into (doing $1,500 in damage to steal perhaps $30 in quarters) I closed the dumb thing down.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #43)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 12:13 PM

44. 1400? There are apartment complexes here with higher populations than that.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 04:42 PM

2. And I guess a really obscene profit is not necessary to making a "good profit." nt

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 05:24 PM

3. Maybe what we should do is get some form of our own "money" (Fast food employee bucks)

So that when we got to other places, we pay the price for a burger but throw out additional "fast food employee bucks" that we pay for in to a fund for, and that employees of these firms can take back (perhaps we right down the place and time on the buck when we give it to them) so that they can cash it in for money for themselves later. That way we as consumers can make sure that employees are paid more of the money we pay for food at these places. Perhaps the totals for how much of these are given to employees of each of these establishments can get published, so that we can embarrass the owners of these establishments that they are paying too little.

Perhaps for a place like this that pays its people decently, we'd have some way for these new currency bucks to be paid to the business itself, as a way of rewarding them for paying their people reasonably.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 05:43 PM

5. My wife just looked up their menu and found the prices reasonable--They have nice round numbers

AND no High Fructose Corn Syrup.

http://www.moocluckmoo.com/#!menu/c1a9u


We want one in our area.

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Response to diabeticman (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 06:03 PM

10. Yum. I want one too.

But it would be difficult to franchise due to the local ingredients & fresh foods.

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Response to diabeticman (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:44 PM

22. I love their menus and what the partners are doing.

It is clear that they believe in sustainability, local sourcing of ingredients, fairness toward employees and supporting their suppliers. Theirs is a model progressive business that our side need more people starting up. We will only defeat the Walmarts and McDonalds of the world when we offer alternatives to workers and consumers.

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Response to diabeticman (Reply #5)


Response to diabeticman (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:46 AM

59. Yep, prices dont look any different from anywhere else Ive been

Hope they make it.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 05:46 PM

6. There is one downside to this, at least here in Southern California.

At In-N-Out, who has always paid well over minimum wage, you notice something very quickly when looking around the staff.

They obviously have a larger pool of workers to choose from, and it doesn't look like they give many job opportunities to immigrants or non-native English speakers.

I'm sure this could be solved somehow.

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Response to Socal31 (Reply #6)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 05:49 PM

7. Sure it could

their competitors could join them in paying a living wage. That way everyone's sharing the same labor pool.

Of course, I could always win the Iowa caucuses, then the New Hampshire primary, and topple Hillary in '16.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 05:57 PM

8. Hey, I'll back ya.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:41 AM

41. if it stops hillary you have my vote

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Response to Socal31 (Reply #6)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 06:14 PM

13. You're wrong. They have many ESL employees, just not in most of the stores.

 

Go out to their farms, or check out the maintenance crews & drivers. They are simply very picky about who they hire because they can be.

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Response to Socal31 (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 01:20 PM

46. ?? There are a LOT of non-white employees at the In N Out's near me

Their only requirement, I think, is that you do need decent English comprehension. Unlike McDonalds, where the order takers just have to push a button, In N Out order takers need to understand and translate the "Secret Menu", which isn't on their register. When someone comes in and says "I want a three by three animal style with a mustard grilled two by two and a wish burger, with well done fries and three root beer floats", you need to understand that the customer is actually ordering:

1 - A double cheeseburger with an extra meat patty, thousand island dressing, and fried onions
2 - A double double with mustard added during patty cooking
3 - A standard burger, hold the patty (usually ordered by vegetarians...Wish Burger = "I wish this had meat")
4 - 3 sets of fries, each fried a second time to make them extra crispy
5 - 3 otherwise empty soda cups with a scoop of vanilla ice cream at the bottom

None of these items are actually on the menu or register, and yet all are on the infamous "Secret Menu" and are ordered constantly. Non-native English speakers often struggle with it, which is why you don't often see them at the registers.

Otherwise, In N Out is a great entry level job. $10-$12 to start, retirement plans, paid health care, paid vacations and sick days. They're pretty much the only major fast food chain that offers those kinds of things to fast food workers.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 05:57 PM

9. And to think I just saw a report on the news yesterday...

...about the owner of 21 Subway franchises who cut his employees' hours back to 28 or 29 hours because if they work 30 hrs a week he would have to pay health benefits, which he said he couldn't afford and still turn a profit. His employees are making just over $7 an hour.

Now let me twist my brain into a pretzel trying to unravel the logic of a man who says he can't afford to provide the minimum of benefits for his employees, some who have worked for him for over a decade, but he can afford 21 franchises.

What is wrong with this picture?

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Response to theHandpuppet (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 12:08 AM

31. Time to topple...

add subway to the list of fast food chains where I refuse to purchase substandard food. Micky D, Wen D, Sub Wee, etc. The people who have to work there are no longer just trying to pick up some extra cash, they are trying to provide for their families and others. If you hate others (and other peoples families) keep on buying your food stuffs from these establishments. Ignore the fact that you are helping the rich folk screw you and their employees in order to provide for their extra trip to Disney for them and theirs...

Nobody is worth 400 times what they pay you...

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Response to theHandpuppet (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:30 AM

38. This Subway franchise owner . . .

must be related to the guy in the Escalade in the OP.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #38)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 09:15 PM

54. Or John Schnatter of Papa John's Pizza.

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Response to muntrv (Reply #54)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 07:34 PM

69. Actually, he wastes my time with his commercials

Because every time I see his smarmy face on the screen I lose my appetite.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 06:10 PM

11. Good on them. In-N-Out has been doing similar for over 60 years & just try to get a job

 

with them. They own and operate everything from the farms to the delivery trucks and decorating/maintenance crews.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:32 AM

39. i heard nothing but great things about them. they're just west coast though huh?

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Response to dionysus (Reply #39)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:51 AM

42. Yes. A part of their model is that no store is further than their trucks can

 

drive in a day. The whole operation from the farms that produce all the food they serve to the paint brushes the maintenance crews use to keep the stores perfect is owned by the family. The only (sort of) downside is that they are fervent Christians, but they seem to be Christians in the sense of doing what JC said to do, so...

The furthest stores are in Redding and Dallas.

Alas, the last member of the family has shown some signs of succumbing to the temptation to expand beyond that kind of control, so it may not last. We'll see.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 06:13 PM

12. DU Rec

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 06:46 PM

14. Somehow I'm thinking Allen Fisher doesn't live in a house like this...

"Papa" John Schnatter's reason for not giving his employees decent pay and benefits.

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Response to bluesbassman (Reply #14)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:04 AM

35. That has all the class and aesthetic appeal

Of a miniature golf course.

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Response to FloridaJudy (Reply #35)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 04:49 PM

63. Ha!

That's pretty much what it looks like - a miniature golf course.

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Response to bluesbassman (Reply #14)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 07:26 PM

68. the real

story. Where's the truth??? Your picture is worth a thousand words. Wonder if they will believe their own eyes. Does anyone see what 12 an hour won't buy.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 06:54 PM

15. Conference I went to in NYC

organized by restaurant workers had research that shows unequivocally that higher wages, sick leave, health benefits and a culture of worker dignity actually makes for higher profits. Why? The place vibes different and customers feel that--when they see a happy staff--they want to be there. When the workers have health and enough $ to take care of their families, there's lots of loyalty--they work harder, team better and there's virtually no turn over. Turn over and retraining is very expensive for owners and eats up any short term gain they get from low wages.

It's really a no-brainer to just to the right thing for once.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 07:12 PM

17. In N Out has, without exception, the best trained

and most cheerful employees of any fast food place ever. They TRAIN. That and paying better results in happy, repeat customers like me !

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 07:46 PM

18. Imagine the extra money they get to spend....

boosting the local economy ever so slightly.

Wait a minute.....what kind of socialistic nightmare is this.
People making more and spending more and not needing handouts(oh sorry...entitlements)
Safety nets would no longer be needed. Now I'm just talking nonsense.
Somebody slap me and bring me back to my senses.

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Response to diverdownjt (Reply #18)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:54 PM

25. You aren't talking nonsense. You are describing the only sane economic model.

The majority of people want to work and live decent lives because of their labor. Employees that are paid fairly turn around and spend their money in the community, bringing more business to companies that pay fair wages and provide medical benefits.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 07:51 PM

19. operative word being "new". not sure how sustainable it is in absence of universality

 

wages are a huge component of prime costs for any restaurant, and with net profit margin averaging around 4% under normal circumstances it could be tough for them to make it in the competitive marketplace for the long haul unless everyone must pay their workers a similarly higher wage.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #19)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:06 PM

26. I disagree with you. Look at the prices that business is asking customers to pay.

The prices are in line with and even lower than McDonald's or Burger King. The partners that are running the business obviously did their homework. Paying employees fair wages and providing medical benefits IS possible and CAN make a business wildly profitable if the owners don't go into business misty eyed and blind. I am willing to bet that if an expert goes behind the counter in that business, that expert will find several efficiencies being practiced by the owners and employees that dramatically lowers the gross margin the business needs to hit to make a profit after covering expenses. Instead of finding questionable rationale to justify doubting the chances of progressive minded businesses to survive, we should cheer those businesses, buy from them and promote the founding of more of them.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #26)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:41 PM

30. I wish them all the best and hope they continue to do well. It is just really hard

 

But if they can get word of mouth and good traffic numbers week in and week out, then it could work.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 02:57 AM

33. So completely full of shit.

 

Edit: As usual you completely ignore every fact on the ground in order to promote your fucked up agenda.

Right here on this very thread you are presented with companies that prove your post is complete bullshit, yet you just go right along as if they didn't exist.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:35 AM

40. that may be true for say a small diner, but a fast food joint moves tons of customers.

it looks like they are doing fine with what they're doing.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 01:33 PM

48. 4%? Wow. How can these places even afford owners? nt

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 09:09 PM

53. I guess that's why Costco is going belly up.

Unless, of course, you're going to argue that wholesale outlets have higher margins than fast food places.

Prevailing wages has absolutely nothing to do with an individual store's profitability. Having been to Moo Cluck Moo I can attest that they are not in direct competition with McDonalds or Wendy's. They do not have a drive through and do not offer pre-made, low-grade crap. They serve fresh made (including bun) food with taste at a reasonable price and they do it quickly.

Domino's has to compete with Little Caesar's because they're both serving the same garbage in different colored boxes. The place down the street with the great quality food and the owner who knows your name is only worried about them if you choose cheap over quality. If that's the case, then wages are going to be the least of his problems.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:35 PM

20. Am I the only one who immediately thought of Buffy?

Didn't she work in a Moo Cluck Moo?

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:42 PM

21. Here's something that can be posted as necessary:

http://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay/national-minimum-wage/Pages/default.aspx
The national minimum wage is the minimum wage that applies to employees who aren’t covered by an award or agreement. It covers the whole national workplace relations system.

Most employees in the national workplace relations system are covered by an award. See Finding the Right Pay for tools and information to help you find minimum wages under awards.
National minimum wage for adults

Currently the full-time minimum wage is $16.37 per hour or $622.20 per week. This means that most employees in the national system shouldn't get less than this.

Casuals covered by the national minimum wage get an extra 24% ($20.30 per hour).


As of today, 16.37 AUD = 14.98 USD.



If you feel like it, you can actually go through the pay system online: http://paycheck.fwo.gov.au/PayCheckPlus.aspx
For kicks, I told the thing that I was part-time counter staff at (one of a list of common fast-food chains) in Perth - chosen because it's a reasonably large city that's not the largest city. To make things easier, I chose no allowances (e.g. clothing, cold work, etc) and no penalties (working from 9pm to midnight, weekends, holidays, etc), working the most plain-vanilla hours possible (8-4:30 with a 1/2 hour unpaid lunch), and who has been on the job for less than 15 weeks.
Your shift rate summary

Based on the information you’ve provided us, here’s a summary of your shift rates.
Expand Your modern award is the Fast Food Industry Award 2010 (MA000003)
Expand icon Your modern award classification is Fast food employee, Level 1

You’ve requested rates for 14 August 2013. These rates were payable from the first full pay period on or after 30 June 2013.
Rates (inclusive of allowances where applicable)
Shift date Shift times Meal break Hours worked Rate per shift
Wednesday, 14 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $143.46
Thursday, 15 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $143.46
Friday, 16 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $143.46
Monday, 19 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $143.46
Tuesday, 20 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $143.46
Total 40.00 $717.29

That's $17.93/hour = $16.41 USD/hour.

Just in case Perth is some kind of oddity, I changed it to Canberra, everything else the same.
Your shift rate summary

Based on the information you’ve provided us, here’s a summary of your shift rates.
Expand Your modern award is the Fast Food Industry Award 2010 (MA000003)
Expand icon Your modern award classification is Fast food employee, Level 1

You’ve requested rates for 14 August 2013. These rates were payable from the first full pay period on or after 30 June 2013.
Rates (inclusive of allowances where applicable)
Shift date Shift times Meal break Hours worked Rate per shift
Wednesday, 14 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $143.87
Thursday, 15 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $143.87
Friday, 16 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $143.87
Monday, 19 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $143.87
Tuesday, 20 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $143.87
Total 40.00 $719.37

That's $17.98/hour = $16.45 USD/hour.

In Queensland:
Your shift rate summary

Based on the information you’ve provided us, here’s a summary of your shift rates.
Expand Your modern award is the Fast Food Industry Award 2010 (MA000003)
Expand icon Your modern award classification is Fast food employee, Level 1

You’ve requested rates for 14 August 2013. These rates were payable from the first full pay period on or after 30 June 2013.
Rates (inclusive of allowances where applicable)
Shift date Shift times Meal break Hours worked Rate per shift
Wednesday, 14 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $141.51
Thursday, 15 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $141.51
Friday, 16 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $141.51
Monday, 19 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $141.51
Tuesday, 20 August 2013 08:00 - 16:30 12:00 - 12:30 8.00 $141.51
Total 40.00 $707.53

That's $17.69/hour = $16.19 USD/hour.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:44 PM

24. “It’s just the right thing to do....”

- Just hold that thought. EVERYONE.

K&R

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:58 PM

27. That's great...

But $12 an hour isn't a living wage. (I know because that's what i make as a Cook) Are there regular raises? What about Vacation Days and Personal Days?

That being said, i like what this place is doing. I hope it can be replicated in other areas. Locally sourced food, pesticide free, family farms, simple menu, No HFCS... all good stuff.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:07 PM

28. excellent

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:33 PM

29. The problem is Wall Street and publicly traded companies

Most privately owned companies pay their workers a generous wage, because they have no shareholders to answer to and their bottom line has no effect on the companies stock price. Also privately owned companies often put their profits back into their business, whereas publicly traded companies put their profits into the pockets of the top executives, board members, and of course their stock holders. Wall Street cares only about the bottom line of a company, and the one thing that effects bottom line more than anything is profit and loss. A company considers what is pays their employees as a loss, and that is why both payroll hours and pay wages are so tightly controlled and often low on both counts.

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Response to npk (Reply #29)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:16 AM

37. Your comprehension of financial/accountIng terms is a bit

 

Sketchy. Wages paid to employees are not considered a loss--they are considered an expense on a P and L or income statement just like electric bill and food costs.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #37)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 02:02 PM

49. expense is a loss

 

Last edited Thu Aug 15, 2013, 02:49 PM - Edit history (1)

It's not so sketchy an understanding. An expense is treated as a loss for tax purposes insofar as the expense/loss is a deduction and lowers the purported taxable income of the company and therefore lowers amount of tax a company must pay, which could lead to more money in owner's pocket than if his expenses were not treated as losses and therefore not tax deductible. So the argument is cogent even if terms may not correspond to proper accounting terms. The point of the earlier message is well taken. Further, a corporation that that views wages as an expense and therefore a loss is missing the point and has little reason to complain on this point. Because wages paid and benefits paid for is an expense, it is given a tax deduction which results in more money in pocket of owner who has had revenues adjusted against expense for a lower taxable amount. The benefit of lower taxable amount goes to corporation owners, whose company now pays fewer taxes and has more money to distribute to owners. Individual wage earners do not get the benefit of deducting their expenses from their gross revenues. So let's stop the whining and hand-wringing. It is my understanding that truly small businesses will get even more favorable tax treatment for providing health insurance to their employees.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 01:31 AM

32. K&R!

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 11:06 AM

36. k and r

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 12:19 PM

45. In N Out pays their employees between $11.75 - $15.00 / hr starting.

Plus they also get benefits like paid vacation and PPO health insurance. That's how you do business!

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Response to Initech (Reply #45)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 06:11 PM

64. But they do put Bible verses on their cups


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Response to FrodosPet (Reply #64)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 06:14 PM

65. Yeah I've never quite fully understood that.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 01:22 PM

47. In & Out and Five Guys both seem to be doing OK, too

They both make a point of paying above the prevailing fast food wage to keep turnover low (though unfortunately Five Guys may have changed that when they had that huge franchise expansion a few years ago.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #47)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:55 AM

60. Yes, a Five Guys burger cost a LOT more than the other chains

people still seem to fill up the place though

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 08:43 PM

50. I'm bumping this thread because I just went to Moo Cluck Moo this evening.

It was my first time there and was a little hard to find being tucked between a tattoo parlor and a transmission shop but it was well worth the search. The front of the restaurant is tiny compared to their kitchen so it can get tight when someone is eating at the small table or if there's a line, which there was by the time we got our meals. They use tablets to place your order and the process was very efficient. We had our meals (moo burger and bigger moo, both with bacon and cheese, garlic fries and milk shakes) in less than five minutes and it was all fresh.

As for quality, the burgers had a texture and flavor that resembled actual meat, not some sort of processed or reconstituted meat-product. The buns were sweet, firm and obviously fresh baked. The shakes were delicious, something we always expect when using Calder's ice cream, and the fries were probably the best either of us has ever tasted. They don't use garlic powder but instead it seems like a garlic infused oil, likely olive, which gives them an incredible flavor.

As someone else pointed out, there's no high fructose corn syrup used - even their soda is from a Michigan micro-producer using real sugar. In fact, all the ingredients were top notch and the prices were very reasonable. Coupled with paying their employees a living wage, and from what I saw treating them with respect, I don't know how you beat it. We'll be back, often.

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Response to last1standing (Reply #50)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 08:48 PM

51. That's awesome last1standing. Thank you so much for

posting. Here on Long Island, we have a lot of great restaurants tucked between stores, that have great food.
Thank you again for posting.


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Response to cal04 (Reply #51)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 08:53 PM

52. Thank you for the OP.

I never would have known about it if you hadn't posted. It was a real treat.

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Response to last1standing (Reply #50)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 03:22 PM

61. I was hoping it would have been closer the Van Born & Telegraph area

Will have to try it the next time we get home. Caulder dairy has the best eggnog I've ever had, never had one of their shakes.

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Response to Michigan-Arizona (Reply #61)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 03:45 PM

62. OTT: Calder's eggnog is the most incredible substance on Earth!

But their shakes are very, very good as well. Especially the malted ones.

To bring this back on topic, the distance from Van Born isn't bad at all. We drove from Lincoln Park to get there but it was well worth it.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 09:48 PM

55. remember the old days when companies mistreating their employees made the news? eom

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:33 PM

56. This is how to build true good fortune! If employers who underpay their workers believe that

they themselves are happy, they're fooling themselves. You can't build happiness on someone else's suffering. But you can build happiness on other people's happiness, which is what Moo Cluck Moo is doing! Love them!!

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:28 AM

57. Communist bastard.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 08:14 AM

58. Metro Times restaurant review

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Response to caraher (Reply #58)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 07:00 PM

67. Thank you so much for the link caraher

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 06:16 PM

66. We must fight for more of this.

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