HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » If Democrats want to win ...

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:09 AM

If Democrats want to win in 2014 ...

... they should advocate for...


... Living Wage

... Medicare for All

... Strengthen, expand Social Security

... Legalize weed

and

... Cut defense to pay for it all


Supporting such positions, Dems could gain tens of millions of votes from the 40% of the electorate who currently stay home because neither Party offers them squat.

Failure to adopt such stances just makes Democrats look like Repubican-lite, demotivates the base, does nothing to attract the currently disaffected and cedes the issues to the other side.

147 replies, 7490 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 147 replies Author Time Post
Reply If Democrats want to win in 2014 ... (Original post)
Scuba Aug 2013 OP
MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #1
Scuba Aug 2013 #2
tiredtoo Aug 2013 #119
Scuba Aug 2013 #125
Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #3
arely staircase Aug 2013 #82
Crow73 Aug 2013 #113
Triana Aug 2013 #4
HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #46
Triana Aug 2013 #60
el_bryanto Aug 2013 #5
Scuba Aug 2013 #6
AllyCat Aug 2013 #43
LongTomH Aug 2013 #118
Dawgs Aug 2013 #7
Scuba Aug 2013 #8
Dawgs Aug 2013 #11
Scuba Aug 2013 #12
Dawgs Aug 2013 #33
Scuba Aug 2013 #37
Dawgs Aug 2013 #62
DissidentVoice Aug 2013 #52
Dawgs Aug 2013 #59
DissidentVoice Aug 2013 #69
Dawgs Aug 2013 #71
DissidentVoice Aug 2013 #73
Dawgs Aug 2013 #76
DissidentVoice Aug 2013 #77
Dawgs Aug 2013 #84
noiretextatique Aug 2013 #95
nxylas Aug 2013 #131
DissidentVoice Aug 2013 #135
nxylas Aug 2013 #138
DissidentVoice Aug 2013 #140
nxylas Aug 2013 #141
DissidentVoice Aug 2013 #146
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #142
Scuba Aug 2013 #136
DissidentVoice Aug 2013 #137
Enthusiast Aug 2013 #88
Dawgs Aug 2013 #92
nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #102
RC Aug 2013 #108
Crow73 Aug 2013 #114
Garion_55 Aug 2013 #9
Stuckinthebush Aug 2013 #10
Scuba Aug 2013 #14
Fumesucker Aug 2013 #16
Tiredofthesame Aug 2013 #13
AllyCat Aug 2013 #45
Tiredofthesame Aug 2013 #64
Coyotl Aug 2013 #15
Scuba Aug 2013 #17
Marr Aug 2013 #61
Cryptoad Aug 2013 #19
Scuba Aug 2013 #21
Cryptoad Aug 2013 #25
Scuba Aug 2013 #27
Cryptoad Aug 2013 #56
Scuba Aug 2013 #63
RC Aug 2013 #111
AllyCat Aug 2013 #50
Cryptoad Aug 2013 #57
bvar22 Aug 2013 #65
Scuba Aug 2013 #86
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #143
mountain grammy Aug 2013 #23
Tiredofthesame Aug 2013 #31
DissidentVoice Aug 2013 #55
arely staircase Aug 2013 #85
TiberiusB Aug 2013 #90
Maedhros Aug 2013 #97
arely staircase Aug 2013 #99
Maedhros Aug 2013 #105
Crow73 Aug 2013 #115
Coyotl Aug 2013 #91
Tiredofthesame Aug 2013 #107
JBoy Aug 2013 #48
rhett o rick Aug 2013 #116
zeemike Aug 2013 #18
uponit7771 Aug 2013 #20
corkhead Aug 2013 #22
JNelson6563 Aug 2013 #24
Scuba Aug 2013 #28
JNelson6563 Aug 2013 #93
Scuba Aug 2013 #94
JNelson6563 Aug 2013 #109
Scuba Aug 2013 #110
PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #26
JustAnotherGen Aug 2013 #29
Scuba Aug 2013 #30
Tiredofthesame Aug 2013 #32
malthaussen Aug 2013 #34
Tiredofthesame Aug 2013 #35
malthaussen Aug 2013 #36
Tiredofthesame Aug 2013 #47
Divernan Aug 2013 #38
JustAnotherGen Aug 2013 #66
Divernan Aug 2013 #67
JustAnotherGen Aug 2013 #68
MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #39
cate94 Aug 2013 #40
loudsue Aug 2013 #41
JEB Aug 2013 #42
NorthCarolina Aug 2013 #49
AllyCat Aug 2013 #51
RC Aug 2013 #112
limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #44
JoePhilly Aug 2013 #80
Drunken Irishman Aug 2013 #104
limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #128
DissidentVoice Aug 2013 #53
Waiting For Everyman Aug 2013 #54
HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #58
Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #70
Scuba Aug 2013 #72
Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #74
Bake Aug 2013 #75
Dawgs Aug 2013 #78
Scuba Aug 2013 #79
Bake Aug 2013 #81
Scuba Aug 2013 #83
Enthusiast Aug 2013 #89
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #144
Enthusiast Aug 2013 #87
Phlem Aug 2013 #96
nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #98
Progressive dog Aug 2013 #100
polichick Aug 2013 #101
Drunken Irishman Aug 2013 #103
RC Aug 2013 #106
DeSwiss Aug 2013 #117
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #120
Agony Aug 2013 #121
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #124
99Forever Aug 2013 #122
tiredtoo Aug 2013 #123
rhett o rick Aug 2013 #126
Doctor_J Aug 2013 #127
awoke_in_2003 Aug 2013 #129
steve2470 Aug 2013 #130
Scuba Aug 2013 #134
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #145
silvershadow Aug 2013 #132
blkmusclmachine Aug 2013 #133
B Calm Aug 2013 #139
gulliver Aug 2013 #147

Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:10 AM

1. K&R (love your graphic)

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:12 AM

2. Another DU member gave me permission to use it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:23 PM

119. I am going to steal the graphic

hope you are not offended. I like your ideas and the graphic has to be shared.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tiredtoo (Reply #119)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:55 PM

125. Be my guest.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:26 AM

3. K&R I don't believe that is their desire. Maintaining power over the process is far more

 

important than winning elections to them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #3)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:46 PM

82. so why will you be supporting them?

that makes no sense. you think they suck but you still vote for them and advocate that others do?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arely staircase (Reply #82)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 07:50 PM

113. That is

 

what we call the rub.
Obama is a corporatist, we knew that before reelecting him. Much like the rest of our party leadership.
That we have to fight about it, is the fun part.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:40 AM

4. Cut defense and raise taxes on the wealthiest, closing biggest corporate tax loopholes

and ending some corporate subsidies.

The Kochs/Wall St would have a hizzy-fit -- but Dems should tell them to go Cheney themselves: "we work for the working families"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Triana (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:56 AM

46. The last time the Democratic Party had 'full employment' as an official

 

plank of its national platform was . . . get ready . . . 1976, i.e., before Reagan.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HardTimes99 (Reply #46)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:18 AM

60. Well there's a surprise...

...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:52 AM

5. How much of the 60% that do vote would support these measures?

I suppose it depends on how you plan to guarantee a living wage, but legalizing weed and cutting defense will probably turn of some people in our own base (the ones that actually vote).

Bryant

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to el_bryanto (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:53 AM

6. Yep, we might lose one for every 10 we gain.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #6)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:48 AM

43. Oh noes!! But Then we would not be a big tent if we lost that one person!!!

We don't want to be exclusionary!

(Do I need the little sarcasm thingy?)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to el_bryanto (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:05 PM

118. Most people will support every plank in this platform!!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:13 AM

7. Advocating for a living wage and strengthening Social Security would be paid for by the rich.

Legalizing weed is also worth mentioning. But Medicare for all and cutting defense isn't necessary. Best to keep it simple.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dawgs (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:14 AM

8. If you want to attract votes from the 40% who typically don't, you need to offer them something.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #8)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:27 AM

11. Minimum wage, SS, and legalizing weed is "something", no?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dawgs (Reply #11)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:31 AM

12. For some, yes. For those with no, or expensive, health insurance, no.

Why think small?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #12)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:14 AM

33. My philosophy has always been to keep the message simple.

Democrats JUST passed a healthcare bill. And, unfortunately it's still pretty unpopular. I'm not sure it's a good idea to now say that you want to pass something completely different.

Pushing for single payer can wait for another day.

The other ideas are all great and they are also very popular. I would stick with those.

Keep it simple.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Scuba (Reply #37)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:22 AM

62. I didn't say it wasn't simple and popular. I just don't think this is the time for this fight.

I'd rather wait until after the 2014 elections.

My first priority would be to raise the minimum wage to something over $10. Second would be legalizing marijuana.

I think both of those would bring all of those people you want to the polls.

IMO, pushing Medicare for All wouldn't make a difference.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dawgs (Reply #33)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:04 AM

52. WHY can single payer "wait for another day?"

It's been on the table at least since the New Deal.

It is TIME.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DissidentVoice (Reply #52)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:18 AM

59. Please don't respond if you're going to ignore everything else in my post.

I explained why once. I'm not going to do it again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dawgs (Reply #59)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:15 PM

69. Legalising weed down the food chain

I did not ignore your other points.

Legalising weed is way down the food chain (maybe I'm saying that because I don't smoke weed) from strengthening Social Security and guaranteeing a stable living wage. They all go hand-in-hand with health care for ALL.

I was in the Air Force. I know that DoD is not a good steward of the public purse. Getting rid of money pits like the F-35 would free up a lot of funds for these other priorities.

There is so much waste and duplication among the armed services.

Do the Marines, who are a component of the Navy, need their own "air force?" Let Marine aviators fly Navy aircraft in support of Marine operations.

Do we really need both an Air National Guard and an Air Force Reserve (I was in the ANG)? Move the ANG units into the AFRES and restructure the ANG to be more directly responsible to state needs, or fold it into the Army National Guard aviation branch.

Does each service have to have its own "snake eaters?" Rangers, Green Berets, Marine Recon, Navy SEALS, Air Force Special Operations Command...

I'm not advocating merging the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and Coast Guard into a single service, the way Canada tried to do in 1968 and failed badly (they've restored their three services). But surely there are a lot of wasteful things that could be eliminated...and boost service personnel's quality of life in the process.

I see health care as THE overriding issue in this country. It is the source of most bankruptcies. We are the only industrialised nation in the world not to guarantee health coverage to all. "Obamacare" is not the way to do it, though it's better than anything from the GOP (and face it, the Republicans are going to oppose anything and everything except the status quo).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DissidentVoice (Reply #69)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:26 PM

71. Sorry, but it doesn't appear that you did read my other points.

I don't disagree that defense spending is a big problem. It is and has been for a very long time.

I also agree that Obamacare is not the way to do it. I would love to get Medicare for All tomorrow.

You are right on with both of these points.

But, this thread is about getting people to vote that normally wouldn't. And, I personally don't believe that pushing for Medicare for All and cutting defense spending will help. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see those issues addressed.

I disagree about using the legalization of marijuana as way to increase voter turnout. We know that it helped tremendously in CO and WA. There's no reason to believe it wouldn't help everywhere else.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dawgs (Reply #71)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:28 PM

73. But if the voters "turn out"

...then they're going to turn out just for legalising pot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DissidentVoice (Reply #73)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:32 PM

76. And what's wrong with that? There are so many great reasons to do it.

And, not one dealing with "getting high".

Improving the economy, fewer incarcerations, medicinal (healing) properties, etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dawgs (Reply #76)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:36 PM

77. I don't deny that

However, I don't see it as being the big turnout-booster you see it as being.

The Midwest? Ultraconservative Indiana (my native state) or even here in Michigan (my adopted state)? Kansas? Oklahoma?

In the main, people who are going to turn out to legalise pot are those who are directly affected by it.

To me, what is needed for "turnout" is compulsory suffrage, like in Australia.

http://geography.about.com/od/politicalgeography/a/compulsoryvote.htm

I had a good friend in Melbourne years ago. She said it could be a pain in the arse at times but that it really helped participation in the political process.

Of course, Australia has more than two major parties to choose from, as well as being a Westminster constitutional monarchy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DissidentVoice (Reply #77)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:49 PM

84. Three of the four states that have pending pot legislation are in the Midwest.

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002481

So, someone thinks it will pass.

And of course "compulsory suffrage" would be nice; but that's not even close to realistic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DissidentVoice (Reply #77)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 03:48 PM

95. there are a LOT of people who are directly affected by marijuana criminalization

people who have been arrested and incarcerated, and their families. and people who need marijuana for medical reasons, e.g., pain management without harmful pharmaceuticals. i am in california, and i see all kinds of people in the medical cannabis clubs, not just stoners.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DissidentVoice (Reply #77)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 03:25 AM

131. +1

I'm not opposed to legalizing weed, but if it's a zero-sum choice between that and real universal healthcare, then no.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nxylas (Reply #131)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:21 AM

135. And there is no reason it HAS to be a "zero-sum choice!" N/T

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DissidentVoice (Reply #135)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 05:31 AM

138. Tell that to the OP

This whole thread is based on the premise that the Democrats need to simplify their message by focussing on two or three key issues (fair enough), one of which should be legalizing weed because Medicare for all is boring (which is where I part company).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nxylas (Reply #138)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:34 AM

140. I tried doing that

However, the OP seems to be focussed on just legalising pot.

The way I see it, the Democratic Party should focus on these issues:

1. Being DEMOCRATS instead of playing at being "GOP lite"
2. Universal, single-payer health care
3. Repealing the USA Patriot Act
4. Guaranteeing Social Security's solvency and keeping it from any sort of privatisation
5. Bringing ALL our troops home from foreign bases and closing those bases.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DissidentVoice (Reply #140)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 04:22 AM

141. Electoral and media reform are also important

But I don't think they should be campaign issues, as they are not vote-winners, except perhaps among the most disenfranchised voters (ie black and hispanic voters in southern states).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nxylas (Reply #141)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:26 PM

146. Junk the Electoral College!

That would go a LONG way to making our elections fairer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nxylas (Reply #131)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 04:57 AM

142. It shouldn't be a zero-sum choice. That is one of the things wrong with the way things are done

today. Are the people who need health insurance more important than those who need medical marijuana? No. they're not. We need politicians with enough courage to stand up for all Americans, not just those they are trying to sucker a vote out of. Politicians need to start showing some conviction. Show some courage. Show some integrity. Maybe some of those 40% will start showing up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Scuba (Reply #136)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:38 AM

137. But why does it have to be either/or NT

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dawgs (Reply #59)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 02:25 PM

88. Slash the military and propose medicare for all......nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Enthusiast (Reply #88)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 03:20 PM

92. Will motivate no one to vote..... n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dawgs (Reply #92)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 04:38 PM

102. You know what motivates me not to vote

90% want gun background checks...but no...we need to give in to the NRA.

NSA and spying on Americans.

Single payer should be a priority, but that ain't gonna happen.

I could go on...the list is very long

I am done voting for a conservative establishment that is scared of corps and not the people, as well as the excuses.

I hope to see a true voter revolt in my lifetime. I know how I intend to vote. No loss there, I am not represented anyway.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #102)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 05:51 PM

108. +10

 

I want weapons background checks. Keep the info forever. what good does it do a background check, then to destroy the evidence after 10 or 30 days? Too much room for corruption. Track the weapon from manufacture, through every owner, till it is provably destroyed.
NSA spying is unconstitutional. Stop it already.
Single payer, simulator to the rest of the world. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017138675#post7
Most anything the 3rd Way is for, I am against. Get rid of them and replace them with honest, real Center and Left of Center Democrats so we can have more transparency and less secrecy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #8)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 07:53 PM

114. How now

 

brown cow?

It is an off year. Unless you want to pay them to come vote they ain't doing shit.
That sucks... That is the reality. The crazy come vote on off years that is why the GOP does well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:16 AM

9. and cut back all the NSA spying.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:25 AM

10. Win what?

The gerrymandered GOP house seats? I don't think those points will go over well with the crazed right wing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Stuckinthebush (Reply #10)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:32 AM

14. Not trying to win votes from the crazed right wing.

Trying to get the 40% who don't vote to vote for progressives.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Stuckinthebush (Reply #10)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:41 AM

16. For the most part the crazed right wing already votes

You simply are not going to increase turnout that much on the right, their party already fears them and gives them what they want and in those places the Republicans don't deliver they give exquisitely excellent lip service.

On the other hand the Democrats loathe much of their would be base and allow no opportunity to let them know it go to waste.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:31 AM

13. All it takes is a little fact,

 

and straight talk. It blows me away how many people, if you just sit them down and explain the facts to them about how this all works, end up saying,"Hey, this all makes sense to me. New Democrats and Republicans really do what?, they want what?". The FACTS blow them away.

Way too many people huddled in the basement squeezing their AR-15's, thinking Obama is coming for their stuff personally. It's so absurd. The fact is there are hundreds of thousands of people, especially in my "reddest state in the Midwest", that want to live their lives in a progressive democratic way. They are just so used to and brainwashed by the Republican Hate/Spin Fearmongering machine.

I have successfully converted many many people with sensible brains to remove the wool from their eyes, realizing while that wool was over their eyes they were getting fucked in the wallet, from voting straight line Republican down the ticket. All it took was some straight talk with substantiated facts to back it up. But it only works on wolves, not sheep.

The only problem I run into are all these "social issue" democrats, who vote republican because they think they are the "fiscally responsible party". If I had to hear one more time in 2012 how "Romney is a business man", I was going to explode.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tiredofthesame (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:55 AM

45. Welcome to DU!

I'd love to hear how you ID and convert these folks. I get so mad I get ineffective as a debater

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AllyCat (Reply #45)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:26 AM

64. Thank you for the welcome.

 

I am happy to be here.

A while back I started hosting a "round table forum" if you will at my house, for basicially just my friends. Most of which were either lost to the process, didnt care, or just flat always voted republican because of their parents, or their belief in the fear machine. It just kind of grew from there, with some new people showing up, as long as one of my close friends would vouch for them. I don't like shady people, have to vet them a bit.

It is basicially a discussion for the issues of the day, which almost always leads to politics.

In almost every case, I was the only guy in the room with actual FACTS. 6 out of 8 of my closest friends voted for McCain and Romney. 5 of those 6 will never vote for a New Democrat or a Republican again. Unless of course, as everyone knows here, a democrat is always better than a repug. If a New Democrat is the only one left, I still strongly feel we should still vote for them in every case.

Basicially, it is my belief, that if you get most average americans to really sit down and ask themselves "How do I want my life and my childrens life to be governed?". The answer is almost always exactly what a PROGRESSIVE Democrat stands for. Pointing out that the people they are voting for are against that kind of government, with facts, which with the advent of the internet, are so readliy available for anyone to see, becomes quite easy. IMO.

And for some people quite frankly, I just play to their hot button issues, or use something I know about their personal lives to find something a local Republican is doing to thwart their beliefs. Its astounding how many people throw their votes away to the other side, all the while complaining about things are.

I just met a person a couple of months ago, who I knows dabbles in "little green trees". I asked him who he voted for for Governer of this fine red state I live in. He said Mike Pence, because he's a republican. So I told him one of Mike Pence's main agendas is to open more prisons in this state and criminalize marijuana even more than it is. Which is true, backed up by fact. He flipped to Democrat in one fail swoop. Thats all it took. And you know what? I will take it everytime. We need to educate evreyone who will listen. Progressive Democrats are the only ones who make sense anymore.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:39 AM

15. If Democrats want to win in 2014 ...

they need to organize, organize, organize.

And, they don't need the kind of cheering section or bad political advice you offer. Your unrealistic political perspective is very warped by anti-Democrat views and a real lack of understanding political election strategy.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Coyotl (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:41 AM

17. Good grief. My "unrealistic political perspective" is supported by a host of polling data.

Just what is "anti-Democratic" about what I suggested?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #17)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:21 AM

61. I'd love to hear the answer to that one as well.

What you suggested would be anathema to the DLC/Third Way trojan donkeys who've infested the party at the national level, but those politicians are far to the right of the general population, at least on economic issues. The Kochs never would've funded them otherwise.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Coyotl (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:49 AM

19. Agreed,,,

Those that don't vote now will not vote no matter what. True Change only comes from fighting the Right from the inside and it does not come quickly. True Change can not come without being in power when the next 2 Supreme Court Justices are appointed.

Those that do not vote now deserve who ever governs them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cryptoad (Reply #19)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:53 AM

21. "Those that don't vote now will not vote no matter what."

Really? Is that what you believe?

I believe that millions of them will turn out to vote if we just offer them a good reason.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #21)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:58 AM

25. If you can look

at what the GOP is doing to us everyday and not have good reason to get off your ass and vote then , yes that is what I believe!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cryptoad (Reply #25)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:59 AM

27. And those 40% don't see the Democrats as any different. Let's offer them a difference.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #27)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:12 AM

56. All those things you listed

are good Democrat edicts which are being guide our way for the progress we want, but they will not come to pass by demanding like the Tea Party that it is our way or the Hy-way and we are going to hold our breath and stomp our feet until we get it..... Change comes form inside the system. A two Party system whether you like or not.... and not voting is a vote for the GOP in my book!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cryptoad (Reply #56)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:26 AM

63. No one is advocating holding their breath or stomping their feet.

I agree on the not voting point, which is why I feel so strongly that our side MUST advocate for these things. How else are you going to get that 40% to show up at the polls?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #27)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 06:30 PM

111. The reason people see the Democratic party as no different than the Republicans are the

 

New Democrats, 3rd Way, DLC, DINO's, or whatever they calling themselves today. They keep changing their name because people keep finding out the are really nothing more than Republican Lite. So a new name is suppose to mean a better grade of Democrat, when all it actually means is, they changed their mask. It is still the same people, the same devious animals behind that mask, each and every every time.
We need to take control of our party back. The current crop of Democratic leaders are no better than the Republicans. Just slower at running Rightward, toward the cliff.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cryptoad (Reply #25)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:01 AM

50. I agree with Scuba on this...people I know who don't vote see no difference

between the parties. We need to make a clear distinction. We here on DU see the distinction but for the uninformed, there is little difference. They see health care reform and then hear about all the stuff that helps THEM getting delayed. They want transparency and get NSA spying. They want to see Gitmo closed and it's still open.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AllyCat (Reply #50)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:14 AM

57. That sounds like

the Progressive Tea Party to me.
Thanks but no Thanks

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cryptoad (Reply #57)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 12:06 PM

65. Sounds like a step back to the Old Working Class Democratic party to me,

and I say not just YES!,
but HELL Yes.

If you want people to get off their ass and vote,
give them something to vote FOR.

Sorry, but "We're a little better then the other guy"
just doesn't get anyone All Fired Up!!!



"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the Fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign."

---President Harry Truman
QED:2010




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #65)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:51 PM

86. "Not the Republican" is a losing strategy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #65)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 04:59 AM

143. great post bvar22.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Coyotl (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:57 AM

23. Personally, I think the graphic is the most realistic I've seen

and I fail to understand how this is an unrealistic political perspective since these should be the basis of our Democratic views. So many people feel powerless to change the slide from middle class to working poor. The Democratic platform must reflect these problems and energize the electorate.

On this point I completely agree! If the Democrats want to take back the House in 2014, they need to organize, organize, organize. No one did it better than Howard Dean.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Coyotl (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:09 AM

31. I dont think we are talking about Democrats winning in 2014,

 

we are talking Progressive Democrats winning in 2014. This political perspective is not warped. It is true. There are only 2 senators registered with the Congressional Progressive Caucus. 2!!!!!!! If that alone doesn't prove the scale shown above, I don't know what does.

New democrats are not real democrats. The proof is in the pudding.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tiredofthesame (Reply #31)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:08 AM

55. Democrats haven't been DEMOCRATS for a long time

I first realised that when Bill Clinton rolled over and played dead on health care in 1994.

Oh, for another FDR.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DissidentVoice (Reply #55)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:50 PM

85. Bill Clinton was and is a badass

so is Obama and so will be Hillary (should she run).

Gore would have been had it not been for Nader's ego putting Florida within the margin of theft.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arely staircase (Reply #85)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 02:44 PM

90. Clinton worship is ridiculous and undeserved

Clinton brought us welfare "reform", NAFTA, the Commodities and Futures Modernization act (aka "the death of Glass-Steagall") and more center-right garbage than I can shake a stick at. It's widely accepted that he planned to "modernize" Social Security as well. The sanctions he imposed on Iraq resulted in the deaths of an estimated 500,000 children. Yes, Saddam could have come to his people's aid, but expecting him to and sitting back and letting thousands die when he didn't was simply cruel. Clinton was definitely an improvement over Bush and Reagan, but he was hardly a liberal democrat on far too many issues. As for the Nader nonsense, please let that old horse die. Nader did not lose the election for Gore. It should never have been that close in the first place, and how is it that everyone is so sure that every vote for Nader was simply guaranteed to come at Gore's expense? A few likely came from Bush and more were probably not planning to vote for either.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arely staircase (Reply #85)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 04:29 PM

97. I don't want a "badass" for President.

That's an adolescent's view of politics.

I want an effective statesman dedicated to progressive ideals.

Less (metaphorical) dick-swinging and more principles and integrity, please.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Maedhros (Reply #97)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 04:32 PM

99. that was clinton

and also a badass mofo.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arely staircase (Reply #99)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 05:20 PM

105. Clinton signed DOMA, NAFTA, Welfare "Reform" into law.

Not what I would call "progressive" or demonstrating integrity.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Maedhros (Reply #105)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 07:54 PM

115. Nope

 

No one would with a strait face.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tiredofthesame (Reply #31)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 03:00 PM

91. I'm concerned the the real Democrats win in 2014, not the redefined, would-be, imagined Democrats

that would satisfy the far left.

Unless you want to return to a government far more fearful and despicable than the Bush years, it is time to accept political reality and get on board with the party of the actual left today.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Coyotl (Reply #91)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 05:49 PM

107. Well that assumes progressives won't vote for a soft, weak, New Democrat

 

in a general election. I don't think this is true. We are simply given no other choice.

Progressives are starting to grab hold and fight a bit by doing things like Grayson and Takano did by drafting a letter of solidarity against cutting Social Security benefits. The letter stated under no uncertain terms would they vote for a bill that in any way cut Social Security and Medicaid benefits. It started with 2 and ended up with almost 60 congress members if I'm not mistaken. These are fairly freshman congressman with great poll numbers. Might not be going anywhere. Sounds like maybe starting to make a new political reality if you ask me. We control reality. We can change what is going on now into a new reality. Men and women like Grayson and Takano are just the beginning.

I don't march in lock-step with my party. And I never will. I will keep on working for what is right and fair for the people as a whole. In my belief there is no other way than a democrat thinking and acting progressively to achieve what is right and fair for the people as a whole.







Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Coyotl (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:59 AM

48. That sounds like the Reince Priebus strategy

It's not our policies that are the problem, we just need to sell them better.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Coyotl (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:04 PM

116. Wow, you got him good. I guess when you got nothing you attack the poster.

"And, they don't need the kind of cheering section or bad political advice you offer. Your unrealistic political perspective is very warped by anti-Democrat views and a real lack of understanding political election strategy."

That's one way to unite the party, attack, attack, attack.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:48 AM

18. IF they want is the key words.

And I am not sure that the leaders in the party want that.

It sure looks to me like they are content with things the way they are and the fewer people voting the better for them.
Besides as long as the bad cop is such a threat the money from the people who are afraid of them keeps rolling in.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:50 AM

20. I'd like to advocate for a functioning government

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:55 AM

22. You'd think it should be low hanging fruit

but I am convinced that the PTB (both D & R) wants everyone who would occupy the space available in your graphic to stay at home on election day and don't mind splitting the spoils amongst themselves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:57 AM

24. Yes, this strategy will fit every single district

across the country perfectly!1! Especially those blood red zones, you KNOW they're just itching to vote for a lefty that advocates these exact things!!! They only pretend to be teabillies 'cause there just ain't no real lefties on the ballot!1!

I've checked with travel agents but am unable to locate this idyllic utopia so many DUers fervently believe exists.

Julie

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #24)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:00 AM

28. What percentage of eligible voters didn't bother in these districts?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #28)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 03:27 PM

93. I am very surprised

to see you avoid the point like that.

Ok, I'll follow your sidestep...with a question. Are you implying that there are enough voters to turn deep red districts blue if we could get a liberal enough candidate in those places?

Have you ever been politically active in a red zone?

Julie

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #93)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 03:39 PM

94. Maybe and yes...

I don't profess that we can turn every Congressional District blue, but we can tilt a whole bunch of the close ones, enough to hold the Senate and take the House.

Certainly Republican-lite isn't going to get that job done. And if it did, would we be better off?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #94)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 06:14 PM

109. I concur with many of your points

I take issue with a one-size-fits-all strategy.

I do think it would be very helpful if various organizations/activists got busy with some information campaigns.

For instance, the pot legalization thing...our costly prison for profit situation is a huge part of that and needs to be turned into a cause that draws much attention. Scientific information on pot, the ways it can help some as well as shatter some of the myths many have bought into for a long time.

Such efforts would dovetail nicely with candidates talking about the wastefulness of the "War on drugs", etc.

I really think a broad effort of getting info out there on a lot of causes to counter the constant propaganda is what is needed to help make possible a way for such candidates to succeed.

I also think this is an excellent way to really tie together the activities of internet and boots-on-the-ground folks. Between us I really think we could all tag-team this effort and effectively counter the corporatist forces we are up against.

Julie

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #109)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 06:20 PM

110. We're in agreement. I never meant to suggest one-size-fits-all.

But nationally, these issues are winners.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:58 AM

26. I think we need a new message. "If the left wants to win."

We need to push for a leftward movement.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:06 AM

29. Agree and add another item

The rights of women to manage and control our own bodies and a stand for our rights to family planning on OUR TERMS only. No negotiations on this. It's a non negotiable. We aren't compromising and good god damned thing with 'those' people. Our way or the highway and go hang if you don't like it.

Become the party of "Don't Tread on Women"!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #29)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:07 AM

30. Agreed, thanks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #29)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:12 AM

32. At this point,

 

any free-thinking woman who votes for a republican is just lost.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tiredofthesame (Reply #32)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:16 AM

34. Did you even look at the 2012 results?

Or do you think that 45% of American women should just be thrown out as "lost?"

-- Mal

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malthaussen (Reply #34)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:21 AM

35. No not at all,

 

and re-reading my comment, I must admit I'm a bit fired up this morning.

It's the BLATANT women-hating from the right, that makes it so hard for me to undertstand how it would even be possible for a woman to vote for a Republican, let alone a teabagger.

No different than how half the country is still blind to the game-rigging I guess. I meant no disrespect at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tiredofthesame (Reply #35)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:23 AM

36. It's hard for me to understand, too.

I am rarely shocked, but that % of women voting for Romney, in the midst of all the GOP women-hating and rape-justifying, shocked me. Something is screwed up there.

-- Mal

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malthaussen (Reply #36)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:57 AM

47. That right there is a much better way of saying what I was trying to say.

 

Thank you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #29)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:39 AM

38. Women should utilize the power of the lock on "the bedroom door", so to speak

"These ALEC anti-planned parenthood bills have just given me a real migraine headache, honey. Go take a long cold shower. Or buy an inflatable doll from one of those outsourced factories. But be careful, because rumor has it that those Chinese "toys" are dangerous."

Harmful chemicals were found in children's toys sold in mainland China and Hong Kong, Greenpeace said May 18, as it asked government authorities to ban the use of certain toxic chemicals.

Phthalates exceeding 10 percent of the toy's weight were confirmed in 19 of 30 samples purchased in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou and Hong Kong, by an independent laboratory according to a report issued by the environmental NGO.

Chemicals such as phthalates are used to soften plastics and increase the material's heat resistance in industrial production. Long-term exposure of humans to the chemical may result in hormonal malfunction, sexual precocity, genital abnormalities and even birth defects.

The European Union and the U.S. have limited three types of phthalates to no more than 0.1 percent of its weight in toys and all children's products.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Divernan (Reply #38)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 12:48 PM

66. The problem is

I'm married to a progressive and forward thinking man. Why should he be punished for some dickweed scum bucket getting into *gulp* HIS bedroom too?

Why should men with common sense, respect for women, and respect for the rights of women be punished?

I know there is a lot of laughter around the idea/concept - but there are some awesome men at DU who are disgusted by the efforts of those good old boys on the right - and they shouldn't be punished.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #66)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 12:58 PM

67. I should have been clearer - I'm talking about women

married to or in anyway sexually involved with men who approve, support, contribute to or vote for the various state legislatures' War on Women via ALEC bills.

I wonder how the suffragettes got men to approve "giving" them the vote.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Divernan (Reply #67)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:12 PM

68. In that case

It was politically expedient - as long as they voted Republican. That's when the Republican party was far more liberal than the Democratic though.

They also played into the myth of the 'wilting flower innocent virgin white female' -- and shoved black women to the back of the lines. Literally. You kind of see this being played out again.


Who do they attack as destroying America with their wombs? Black women first and Latina/Hispanic women next.
Who do they want to have more children to keep America - uh - er - hmm . . . :idea: Free?

It's frightening.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:42 AM

39. More than 2/3rds of Americans are in favor of most of those

But less than half of the 1%.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:43 AM

40. When I saw your headline I immediately thought


"If Democrats want to win in 2014...."
they need to start acting like Democrats.

I think your recommendations are absolutely correct.
The graphic is great!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:44 AM

41. Sorry. I don't care anymore what they SAY they want. Obama broke me of any hope in believing

what someone might say. Anyone can say and "support" anything in a speech, then come along and PROPOSE giving people LESS MONEY the OLDER AND MORE HELPLESS they become.

There are almost no real democrats in Washington anymore. And the party managers won't give ANY money to progressive candidates....only to the corporate pawns.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:47 AM

42. Nice graphic, but...

over on the right along with the donkey and the hefalump you need to add a shit pile of dirty money and narrow minded media.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JEB (Reply #42)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:00 AM

49. Plus, accuracy might be improved by moving the Donkey a bit farther right.

The current graphic is being a bit too generous I think.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NorthCarolina (Reply #49)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:02 AM

51. yup.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NorthCarolina (Reply #49)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 06:49 PM

112. I was think about turning the donkey around, to face right.

 

The idea of dirty money is good too.
(My graphic, so I can do that.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:49 AM

44. "If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing,

the people will choose the genuine article, every time." - Harry Truman

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #44)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:42 PM

80. Kind of destorys the "Obama is a Republican" meme.

If Obama were really a "Republican in Democratic clothing" (as many around here claim), McCain or Romney would have beaten Obama in 2008 or 2012.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JoePhilly (Reply #80)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 04:55 PM

104. Same with Clinton.

This is the dumbest statement out there. If that were the case, we would've had Presidents Mondale, McGovern and Dukakis - while missing out on Presidents Clinton and Obama.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JoePhilly (Reply #80)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 12:02 AM

128. You just convinced me Harry Truman must have been wrong with that quote.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:05 AM

53. The Democratic Party has got to take a look at itself

It has been poisoned by the pervasive influence of the DLC.

It has far too long tried to become exactly what it is today: "GOP-lite."

We need more Bernie Sanders and less Joe Lieberman.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:06 AM

54. Add in: no surveillance state, no TPP, and student debt relief.

Those three are important, and would pick up blocks of voters.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:16 AM

58. That is one depressing graphic! Suggests there may exist a huge opening for Bernie

 

Sanders and like-minded folks to build a viable 3rd-party on the left, one built around progressive taxation and repairing\expanding the social safety net.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:24 PM

70. I think you're making the mistake of thinking everyone else wants what you want.

In particular, defence cuts, while a good idea, would be politically very damaging, I suspect (although I'm far from certain of that).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Donald Ian Rankin (Reply #70)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:27 PM

72. Not everyone, but a whole lot of those 40% do, and none of them want more tax cuts for billionaires.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #72)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:29 PM

74. Depends how you phrase the question, I suspect.

There's a marked discrepancy between declared preferences (what policies people say they want in polls) and revealed preferences (what policies lead to popular support going up and down).

In general, the policies Americans tell pollsters they support appear to be well to the left of the ones that actually attract votes.

I don't have an explanation for that phenomenon, but I think that declared preference is worthless compared to revealed preference.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:31 PM

75. I agree on most of those, EXCEPT

Legalizing pot isn't a winning issue for us. Mainstream America probably doesn't give a crap about that, and it will alienate some if not many voters.

Is it the right thing to do? Sure. But politically, it's not a winner.

Bake

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bake (Reply #75)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:37 PM

78. Tell that to CO and WA. It worked for them. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bake (Reply #75)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:38 PM

79. You might lose a few votes for supporting legalization....

... not many, but a few. On the other hand you'll pick up 10 for every vote you lose.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #79)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 01:45 PM

81. Show me data to support that assertion

I'm not convinced there are that many votes for legalizing pot -- at least among voters who will turn out to vote.

Bake

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Bake (Reply #81)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 02:31 PM

89. Ron Paul's support of liberalizing weed laws

account for 46% of his support.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bake (Reply #75)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 05:13 AM

144. there are 20 states with legal medical marijuana status. More pending. Two states mine being

one of them just legalized it(first in the world to do so). There is so much pent up demand for the freedom to be able to use it as medicine or to just relax after work like some have a beer after work it is crazy. Hempfest is this weekend in Seattle. Biggest marijuana festival in the country. They are expecting 250,000 people to visit Hempfest this weekend. And next year will be even bigger because I502 shops will be open next year. This is an absolute win for whoever is smart enough to be the first to enact legislation on it on a federal level.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 02:22 PM

87. K&R. That platform would be very popular with the people. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 03:49 PM

96. K&R!

-p

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 04:32 PM

98. What are you smoking? That would be against the real bosses

And it is not us.

I am voting my conscience in 2014 and 2016, and my values.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 04:34 PM

100. Do 100% vote in Vermont when Bernie runs,

or is Bernie too far right to draw the real Democrats to the polls?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 04:36 PM

101. Yep - that's what Dems would do if they weren't...

Last edited Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:28 PM - Edit history (1)

the corporate tools most of them are.


edit: typo

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 04:52 PM

103. Sure, that'll work for Democrats in left-leaning states.

But what about the rest of the party? I guarantee you if my rep, who's a Democrat, came out for legalized weed, he'd be voted out of office. We need to stop pretending the entire country thinks the way DU thinks. It works in places like Vermont, California and other socially liberal states - but for Democrats to win back the House, they're going to have to go into the deep red districts like they did in '06 and win there too.

What you're advocating won't get anyone elected in the south, midwest or interior west.

And I promise you advocating for defense pay cuts is a non-starter. In fact, if Democrats openly ran on that, they'd lose a lot of seats.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 05:28 PM

106. I like your graphic.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:35 PM

117. I have a better idea Bernie.....

...let that donkey and his friend the elephant in the above picture slide right the hell on off and back into the wild where they belong.

Clean the slate.

Start anew.

- You can't fix ROTTEN TO THE CORE.

K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:29 PM

120. campaign finance reform.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:34 PM

121. and... they better stop attacking public education

like Gillibrand is now doing by supporting Booker

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Agony (Reply #121)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:42 PM

124. The attack on public education is a sleeping giant. Many democrats think they can just

go along with the Race to the Top and defunding and there will be no consequences for it, but there are million and millions of parents and teachers out there who are fed up with the attack on public education. The teachers are beginning to refuse to administer state standardized tests and teachers and parents are protesting the wholesale closing of their neighborhood schools.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:38 PM

122. Can't argue with a single word of your great post.

It's what it will be REQUIRED if any candidate wants my support or vote.

No exceptions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:41 PM

123. Agree with these suggestions

In my blog i usually rant about some junk the Republicans are doing, have done or are planning on doing. These rants may be red meat for the base but they do nothing to bring the people in. We do need these type of ideas to get more people to vote for Democratic candidates.
Shameless plug.
http://larryjben.wordpress.com

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:08 PM

126. I cant see the DEmocratic Party doing good in 2014. First of all

the Party really hasnt tackled the voting rights problem. More voters will be disenfranchised in 2014 than ever. And the Republicans have been working on perfecting their vote stealing programs.

Second, other than a couple of Democrats that are speaking out for the people, the party has been pretty quiet.

The Democratic Administration apparently thinks those that use medical marijuana are enemies of the state. Not a popular stand with the people. Maybe Big Pharma is impressed.

The Democratic Administration has gone way out of the way to support the Republican established spy programs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 11:17 PM

127. Well, I have been saying this since right after the 2010 debacle

but I'll rec your rehashing anyway. I am on the ignore list of so many DINOs and BOGers that almost no one reads my posts any more.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 01:25 AM

129. Should but won't. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 02:35 AM

130. I think a legalizing weed position is a winning one for Dems

Yes, the over 65 cohort will be against it mostly and the die hard social conservatives will be against it, but the rest of the population, especially the 18 to 30 bracket will be overwhelmingly in favor of it and be motivated to go to the polls. The war on drugs, especially MJ, is a complete failure.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to steve2470 (Reply #130)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:19 AM

134. Actually there are many die hard conservatives - and older folks - who will support ....

... legalization because they know their kids/grandkids and other loved ones smoke and don't want to see them criminalized.

http://disinfo.com/2012/11/in-colorado-pot-got-50000-more-votes-than-obama/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #134)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 05:23 AM

145. hell I know republicans who smoke it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 03:32 AM

132. That sounds super! Wonder if Hillary will campaign that way?

All joking aside, I agree.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 03:44 AM

133. "If they want..." Riiight. DC DEMS like their politics "right of center."

That's why they need more GOPee ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 05:51 AM

139. But, their idea of strengthening social security worries me!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:41 PM

147. Putting the cart before the horse.

We need to elect a lot more Democrats period. Your graphic shows a nice teeter totter, and that is a good metaphor. If you put a whole bunch of radical ideas over there on the left, it scares all the voters over to the right. I'm for the things you list, but we have to get there over time. Trust grows a lot more slowly than paranoia.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread