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Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:06 PM

If not Hillary, then who?

Inspired by Kentuck's post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3452144

Personally, I'm supporting Hillary - as I did in 2008. However, in 2008, I ended up becoming an Obama supporter.

Usually I make questions like this polls. I'm leaving this open ended.

I always see Elizabeth Warren's name out there; I doubt she'd run, but I'm willing to hear arguments for why she would. Same with Al Franken.

I also see Martin O'Malley's name out there a lot. I don't think he's ready for the national stage, I'm willing to hear arguments.

Joe Biden?

Some of our fate rests with our opponents. If they go Tea-Party stupid, and nominate Ted Cruz, most Dems with a pulse would win. OTOH, Chris Christie increasingly is perceived as someone who just wants to solve problems and is not troubled by working across party lines. He'll be a formidable opponent, but only if the GOP can get out of its own way.

Of the potential candidates out there, if I could pick two that have impressed me not named Hillary Clinton, they would be Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick and Connecticut Governor Dannel Malloy. OTOH, if I were trying to draft someone I thought could win based on appeal to the vast American middle, it'd be Jay Nixon of Missouri -- Dem, Eagle Scout, former AG, and able to get re-elected in a state that's a kind of red shade of purple on the political map.

So if not Hillary, then who?

162 replies, 5992 views

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Arrow 162 replies Author Time Post
Reply If not Hillary, then who? (Original post)
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 OP
JaneyVee Aug 2013 #1
sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #20
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #23
sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #52
HoneychildMooseMoss Aug 2013 #95
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #105
sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #127
maui902 Aug 2013 #131
sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #133
maui902 Aug 2013 #136
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #139
sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #146
maui902 Aug 2013 #147
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #134
JaneyVee Aug 2013 #24
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #30
JaneyVee Aug 2013 #34
Phlem Aug 2013 #38
Phlem Aug 2013 #45
sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #41
Phlem Aug 2013 #49
JaneyVee Aug 2013 #53
Scootaloo Aug 2013 #79
Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #99
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #138
Beacool Aug 2013 #155
Scuba Aug 2013 #108
Beacool Aug 2013 #151
Scuba Aug 2013 #153
Beacool Aug 2013 #156
Scuba Aug 2013 #158
Beacool Aug 2013 #160
Scuba Aug 2013 #162
Capt. Obvious Aug 2013 #118
Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #128
MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #2
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #4
MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #6
LineLineLineReply .
Agschmid Aug 2013 #12
JaneyVee Aug 2013 #16
mick063 Aug 2013 #29
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #25
MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #55
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #66
LineLineLineLineLineReply .
Little Star Aug 2013 #117
Capt. Obvious Aug 2013 #119
Agschmid Aug 2013 #3
kentuck Aug 2013 #5
MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #7
kentuck Aug 2013 #10
MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #13
cali Aug 2013 #104
MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #126
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #26
Phlem Aug 2013 #54
madinmaryland Aug 2013 #8
Agschmid Aug 2013 #9
Xyzse Aug 2013 #15
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #17
JaneyVee Aug 2013 #18
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #21
JaneyVee Aug 2013 #27
quinnox Aug 2013 #28
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #33
quinnox Aug 2013 #37
JaneyVee Aug 2013 #42
quinnox Aug 2013 #56
Chan790 Aug 2013 #149
Rosa Luxemburg Aug 2013 #48
loyalsister Aug 2013 #102
HappyMe Aug 2013 #122
quinnox Aug 2013 #11
JaneyVee Aug 2013 #19
quinnox Aug 2013 #22
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #142
joshcryer Aug 2013 #43
quinnox Aug 2013 #47
joshcryer Aug 2013 #58
quinnox Aug 2013 #62
winter is coming Aug 2013 #68
quinnox Aug 2013 #72
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #76
quinnox Aug 2013 #88
lumpy Aug 2013 #96
joshcryer Aug 2013 #71
quinnox Aug 2013 #74
joshcryer Aug 2013 #78
quinnox Aug 2013 #81
Little Star Aug 2013 #123
hfojvt Aug 2013 #63
Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #100
Xyzse Aug 2013 #14
Marie Marie Aug 2013 #35
lumpy Aug 2013 #97
mick063 Aug 2013 #39
Historic NY Aug 2013 #31
Chan790 Aug 2013 #150
sad-cafe Aug 2013 #32
Samantha Aug 2013 #93
Art_from_Ark Aug 2013 #103
lumpy Aug 2013 #98
Skittles Aug 2013 #36
joshcryer Aug 2013 #40
mick063 Aug 2013 #46
joshcryer Aug 2013 #50
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #57
joshcryer Aug 2013 #60
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #64
joshcryer Aug 2013 #75
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #80
joshcryer Aug 2013 #83
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #85
joshcryer Aug 2013 #89
Rosa Luxemburg Aug 2013 #44
theHandpuppet Aug 2013 #113
LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #51
brooklynite Aug 2013 #59
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #61
brooklynite Aug 2013 #67
mick063 Aug 2013 #84
brooklynite Aug 2013 #132
Demo_Chris Aug 2013 #65
brooklynite Aug 2013 #121
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #70
Capt. Obvious Aug 2013 #120
tularetom Aug 2013 #69
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #73
tularetom Aug 2013 #116
ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #77
Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #82
limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #86
Rowdyboy Aug 2013 #87
Little Star Aug 2013 #124
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #137
Rowdyboy Aug 2013 #148
Politicalboi Aug 2013 #90
SwampG8r Aug 2013 #111
winter is coming Aug 2013 #129
MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #91
bravenak Aug 2013 #92
putitinD Aug 2013 #94
Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #101
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #106
Nay Aug 2013 #115
KharmaTrain Aug 2013 #107
1-Old-Man Aug 2013 #109
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #135
brooklynite Aug 2013 #152
99Forever Aug 2013 #110
Life Long Dem Aug 2013 #112
LWolf Aug 2013 #114
wtmusic Aug 2013 #125
Amimnoch Aug 2013 #130
Orsino Aug 2013 #140
Spirochete Aug 2013 #141
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #143
Spirochete Aug 2013 #145
opiate69 Aug 2013 #144
nebenaube Aug 2013 #154
Beacool Aug 2013 #157
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #159
Beacool Aug 2013 #161

Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:09 PM

1. If we want to win the WH we would choose Hillary, if we want to stand up for our

Principles and lose pick someone else. Hillary is the only candidate I can see who will get a nation of social media addicts off their asses and to the voting booth.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:23 PM

20. Same old argument we always get, which then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Fell for it for way

too long, I will not be falling for it again and will only support a Democrat who does not have a history of voting for Bush Wars. I have never supported anyone who voted for that war and never will. I keep seeing the dead bodies of all the innocent people, including our own troops, dead because politicians didn't have the guts to stand up to one of the worst 'presidents' ever in this country.

To fail on one of the most important tests of the past decade, which will go down in history as such, and then later, to see the failure, the tragedies, the millions of people still suffering as a result of that fatal decision, this kind of failure in judgement does not qualify someone for a position as responsible as POTUS.

I will be focusing on getting a strong, Progressive Democratic Congress. Hopefully there will be some good Progressive candidates for the WH, but my energies now are going to be focused where the people's Reps are supposed to be. We have been distracted from that by these billion dollar presidential races, but not anymore.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #20)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:26 PM

23. So if I understand correctly...

You will work to get progressives elected in the House and Senate; while you might vote for Hillary Clinton if she were the nominee, you're not going to phone bank, raise money, etc. Is that a fair interpretation of what you've written?

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #23)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:51 PM

52. Yes, is it against some law or something? You sound like you're questioning a suspect in a crime.

I will raise and donate money for and to ONLY Progressive Democratic Candidates. I phone bank for Progressive Democrats and try to convince everyone I know to vote for them also.

I will not do a single thing for any Third Way infiltrator to MY party. We've been there and done that and I'm not in the habit of repeating the same thing over and over again, (well, maybe twice or so) expecting to get a different result.

I will NOT support anyone who exercised such bad judgement on one of the most important decisions they had the opportunity to make and who still has not acknowledged it. The deadly results of that decision will be with us for decades. Today, many US Veterans committed suicide, unable to live with the horrors they saw on a mission they were sent on that had zero to do with what they thought they were there for.

I despise liars and especially when those lies get human beings kille.

I hope that answers your question and I hope it is not against the law to oppose war crimes and to refuse to vote for someone I do not believe would be a good choice for the office of president?? But who knows in the American we live in today ... certainly the tone of your question could be interpreted as 'suspiciously questioning a citizen on their political views and choices'. I hope that was not your intention, it sure won't help your candidate.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #52)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 01:41 AM

95. Wow!

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #52)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 07:40 AM

105. It does answer my question.

Really, honestly, and truly...I just wanted to make sure I understood your position correctly. No laws were broken.

This is not an insult, simply an observation: What you suggest, by analogy, is not unlike what the Tea Party movement embraced on the other side. They rallied to move their party away from the political center and to threaten or eliminate centrist Congresspersons and Senators in the primaries. They were largely indifferent to Mitt Romney, whom they perceived as a compromiser.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #105)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:44 AM

127. Wait, continuing in the vein of your 'questions'. Let me ask you this question, because I too want

to be clear:

This is not an insult: What you suggest, by analogy, is not unlike what the Tea Party movement embraced ....

This is very interesting! That you view the Tea Party positively? Can you explain why?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #127)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 11:43 AM

131. I didn't read OmahaBlueDog's post as something positive about the Tea Party.

Instead, what I interpreted from the post was that to the extent a party ignores the middle (as the Tea Party has done by embracing only very conservative candidates on the far right), they run the risk that their party's candidate will lose the Presidency (case in point, Romney). As OmahaBlueDog has argued in this thread, choosing not to support the Democratic candidate for President, even if she or he is not your preferred choice, risks a worse outcome. Of course, each of us is free to vote our conscience and to make that choice purely on principle, but it's also fair to point out that if a sizeable number of progressives feel that way and don't vote for a more moderate candidate, like Hillary Clinton should she become the nominee, we may lose the Presidency to the Republicans in 2016, an election year that could result in the Republicans controlling both houses of Congress.

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Response to maui902 (Reply #131)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 01:33 PM

133. I will support a Progressive Democrat for any and all elected offices. I think my position is clear.

I will not support a Third Way (actually a third party that has attached itself to the Dem Party) 'candidate' ever. I don't support war mongers, people who have displayed very bad judgement while in office, Wall St puppets, Bush policies etc etc. Same as always. And, I'm not alone. So all the leadership of the Party has to do is to give us a Democrat and we will work hard to get him/her elected.

'Middle', what exactly does that mean to you?? To the Third Way it means privatizing SS, engaging in PNAC wars, just for starters. I don't care what adjective you apply to those policies, I do not, never have, and never will support them.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #133)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 01:59 PM

136. You are arguing against a point I am not making

I am not arguing that you should support someone who is in the "middle" (by which I mean someone who would appeal not only to some on the far left of the political spectrum but also to many of those who are lean left-if you want to characterize those voters as Third Way Democrats, so be it). I also respect your right to support or vote for, or not to support or vote for, anyone, regardless of the consequences to the Democratic Party in general and to the rest of the nation. But, and here's the point, if you withhold your vote for a Democratic Presidential candidate because she or he is not sufficiently progressive, you increase the odds that the Republican candidate will win, which would be do far greater damage to the country than a less than sufficiently progressive Democratic President. To be clear, if the Democratic Party selects someone who is too progressive for my views, I will guarantee I will back that candidate and vote for her or him in the general election. If you feel otherwise, that is your right and it should be respected. But I think it's fair to point out the possible negative consequences of that position on all progressives.

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Response to maui902 (Reply #136)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:08 PM

139. It's hard to find a perfect candidate.

People on this board used to roast Ben Nelson. They called him a DINO and pondered why Nebraska wouldn't elect a true progressive. The reality is that Nebraska is, outside of Omaha and Lincoln, a state of farmers and ranchers who overwhelmingly support the NRA. Ben was probably as liberal as you can get in this state. Joe Manchin was in enough trouble as the Democratic Senator from a coal mining state -- then he supported the post-Newtown gun initiatives.

People knock the Blue Dogs; call them third-wayers and worse. Here's the thing -- that's what we can elect in many states. If one would rather run "true progressives" that's fine, but you'll find yourself in a minority party with Mitch McConnell (or worse) as Majority Leader.

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Response to maui902 (Reply #136)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 03:03 PM

146. The middle is not what it used to be. The middle is now the neocon, Wall St Third Way.

What you are suggesting is to keep doing what we've been doing, allowing the middle to slide more and more, AND more quickly to the Right. I will not facilitate any more swinging to the Right. Did that, we have deregulation of the media, of the Wall St, multiple wars going on, defunding of Education, cuts already to SS, sneaky little cuts and now they are getting more bold.

I don't like Republican ideas so no, I will no longer be persuaded to 'just do it until we ... whatever'.

And this habit of signalling the Leadership that we will keep on supporting the Third Way with a 'D', they will keep on giving us what we are willing to take.

So now, it's time for us to change OUR tactics. It was one thing when we believed the rhetoric that this was what we had to do, now we understand what was really on, and knowing that it is, imo, unconscienable to keep feeding this machine.

No more following, the people need to lead rather than continue, like sheep, to repeat the same old habits that have gotten nowhere except for a few crumbs here and there.

WE JUST GOT CLAPPER to set up an 'outside' review committee. Do they they think we are stupid? Yes, they do, because we have excused every step towards the right for decades now.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #146)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 03:53 PM

147. I will respond one more time

I am not making the argument that you should support a less progressive candidate because he or she is more likely to win; that's an argument that has been made, and it's worth discussing, but I an NOT making that argument. The argument I'm making is that those who insist on ideological purity for their own party's candidate, and won't vote for that person no matter who the other party selects as their candidate, increases the risk that the other party's candidate will win. If a truly progressive candidate whom you can support happens to win the Democratic primary, then the choice you face is easy. But if the person who wins the Democratic primary is not a truly progressive person (the kind you say you can't support and won't vote for), and you choose to sit out that election and just not vote for anyone, you increase the odds that the Republican candidate will win. It's your right to choose this path, and I understand your reasons for doing so, which you've made clear. But I and many others will regret the day that too many progressives stayed on the sidelines and let someone like John McCain or Mitt Romney or George Bush reoccupy the White House. You may be dissatisified with President Obama's performance in office, but I can assure it's much better with him in the Oval Office than it would have been with McCain or Romney.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #127)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 01:54 PM

134. I am a political scientist by training (not by profession)

I can look at the actions of a political movement (even one I disagree with) and objectively judge that their tactics and strategies are effective. One cannot deny, no matter how much one dislikes the Tea Party, that they were very effective in 2010. Somewhat less so in 2012. They were effective in attracting people who were disenchanted with what they perceived as political compromise, and they sought to move their party away from the political center and toward the far right. One thing they were not shy about was primarying candidates they perceived as weak on their agenda. It frequently backfired to the extent that there is not a Senator Joe Miller, a Senator Sharon Angle, or a Senator Christine O'Donnell. It succeeded to the extent that won the House, some key governorships, and they put the fear of losing seats into most remaining Republican incumbents, and had, until recently, moved GOP rhetoric continually toward the right.

You stated:

I will not do a single thing for any Third Way infiltrator to MY party. We've been there and done that and I'm not in the habit of repeating the same thing over and over again, (well, maybe twice or so) expecting to get a different result.


...and also stated

I will be focusing on getting a strong, Progressive Democratic Congress. Hopefully there will be some good Progressive candidates for the WH, but my energies now are going to be focused where the people's Reps are supposed to be. We have been distracted from that by these billion dollar presidential races, but not anymore.


All I'm saying is that this is not dissimilar to the strategy that the GOP used very effectively in 2010 and before that in 1992. I'm talking about the effectiveness of their tactics; not their ideology.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #20)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:27 PM

24. I keep envisioning the bodies of American families killed by President Rand Paul.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #24)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:32 PM

30. I keep envisioning children suffering due to a defunded education system and parents

staying up late at night with worry because of their poverty wages. That's what we have now and what we would continue to have under Hillary. I will not support any more democrats that cater to the rich.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #30)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:37 PM

34. Hillary caters to the rich? Her voting record seems to say otherwise

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #30)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:39 PM

38. Totally agree.



-p

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #30)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:45 PM

45. as we've witnessed

PBO is a completely different person than BO the senator.

Hillary, *cough* more of the same.

The presidency is bought and paid for else a little JFK action.

The guy who turns this country around will be committing suicide.

That's what we have.

-p

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #24)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:41 PM

41. You're free to entertain yourself with macabre fantasies. I was speaking of a real tragedy which has

actually happened, to real human beings. Making jokes about the victims of one of the most massive crimes of the decade is not a winning campaign strategy.

Hillary lost me that night. I have a conscience and will never support anyone who supported that horrific war. It was bad judgement, to put it mildly, then proven to be so when the lies were exposed. Has Hillary ever apologized for that vote btw? Some who were misled, or who did it for political reasons, have at least apologized.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #41)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:48 PM

49. +1

same here yo.

May be as with you, when the defining moment came, as an american citizen, I voted no.

No Fucking War!

Seems everything's been downhill since.

-p

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #41)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:53 PM

53. Look, she's def not my number one choice, but if she's the nominee I will vote

For her because Republicans are far worse. The longer we shut them out of gaining power the better off we'll be.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #24)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:23 AM

79. You mean like all the ones killed by President McCain?

We've played this game before, back in 2008. Maybe you forgot?

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #24)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:55 AM

99. But unable to envision the bodies of those killed by this President...

 

I get it now; your imagination, fired by fear of what never happened, has shut down the part of your brain that allows you to see what actually is.

Fortunately, we have these devices commonly know as cameras, maybe somebody will point you to some of the images of the real bodies of real dead people killed on the real President's orders and through the real neglect of the real parasites that really run the real country.

As for that imaginary horror show going on in your brain, I'd talk to somebody about that, if I were you.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #99)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:00 PM

138. +1.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #20)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 05:24 PM

155. Let me put it this way, Obama wasn't in the Senate for the IWR vote.

He did give a speech against it in Chicago.

How many people have been killed since 2008 by our drones? The NSA spying issue that has angered so many progressives, under whose presidency is it taking place?

So, not voting for the IWR means squat when a person becomes president.

As for your comment about laughing at those killed. I'm sure that you meant Qaddafi. Hillary was being sarcastic in response to the CBS interviewer asking her if her presence in Libya three days prior to his capture and death was more than a coincidence. It was a silly question and she responded in kind.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 08:14 AM

108. Hillary can't win, but our side can win with this woman running on this message ...

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Response to Scuba (Reply #108)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 04:42 PM

151. Hillary can't win, but Warren can?

More like wishful thinking on your part.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #151)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 04:52 PM

153. Hillary can't attract anyone from the 40% of potential voters who typically stay home.

If Democrats want to win in 2014, they should advocate for ...

... Living Wage

... Medicare for All

... Strengthen, expand Social Security

... Legalize weed

and

... Cut defense to pay for it all


Supporting such positions, Dems could gain tens of millions of votes from the 40% of the electorate who currently stay home because neither Party offers them squat.

Failure to adopt such stances just makes Democrats look like Repubican-lite, demotivates the base, does nothing to attract the currently disaffected and cedes the issues to the other side.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #153)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 05:27 PM

156. I don't know where you get that figure.

As of right now (although 3 years is a lifetime in politics), Hillary wins against any candidate of either party.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #156)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 05:45 PM

158. What figure? The 40% who don't vote?

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/election-results-2012-voter-turnout-lower-than-2008-and-2004-report-says


Posted: 11/08/2012

By: CNN Wire
A report estimating the percentage of eligible voters who cast ballots in Tuesday's election shows the rate was lower than in the past two presidential contests, though it surpassed the rate from 2000.

Thursday's report, from the Center for the Study of the American Electorate, put 2012 voter turnout at 57.5% of all eligible voters, compared to 62.3% who voted in 2008 and 60.4% who cast ballots in 2004. In 2000, the turnout rate was 54.2%.




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Response to Scuba (Reply #158)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 06:59 PM

160. I misunderstood.

I thought that you were saying that 40% wouldn't vote for her. You meant 40% don't vote period.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #160)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 07:17 PM

162. Right! And that's where the available votes are!

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:02 AM

118. The time-stamp on your post says November 2007

How'd you do that?

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:46 AM

128. Yes, but there's another problem.

 

The GOP OpRes team and smearmasters have been planning a run against Hillary for at least 13 years, if not longer.

The biggest reason McCain's campaign was so ham-handed in 2008 is that they prepared for a campaign against Hillary and when Obama secured the nomination at practically the last minute they had to scramble.

If Hillary had been the nominee then McCain could have gone ahead with his original choice of Lieberman for VP, could have fallen back on stump speeches written months before, and would have maintained the momentum coming out of his coronation at the RNC.

Not saying he would have won, but it would have been a much harder-fought and less gaffe-prone campaign that could have turned out differently.

Right now the GOP is becoming divided over principles. We will never have a better chance to wrest our party back from the Third Way bunch than 2016.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:10 PM

2. It's Hillary. She will serve 8 years.

 

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:12 PM

4. she just might, but she will have to do it without my vote.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:15 PM

6. I'm sure she'll miss it. But the trashcan won't.

 

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:18 PM

12. .

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:21 PM

16. Even if she's the nominee???

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:31 PM

29. Same here.

 

Couldn't live with myself. Voting for something I despise. That being plutocracy.

That would include Republicans of course.

I guess I would sit it out if it came down to Hillary verse GOP.

I shall wait and see what Iowa and New Hampshire delivers.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:28 PM

25. OK, but suppose it's not.

Suppose she chooses not to run - it could happen.

Suppose she gets nominated to the SCOTUS -- it could happen.

Who would your backup plan be?

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #25)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:56 PM

55. I know she's running. I know she will win. Why pretend this isn't so?

 

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #55)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:09 AM

66. Two reasons

1) The time between 2013 and 2016 is an eternity in politics. A lot can happen. It never hurts to have a backup plan.

2) I'm a Hillary supporter, but I'm willing to hear the counter arguments. Right now, I think there is no candidate who has her qualifications.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #66)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:02 AM

117. .

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:03 AM

119. 80-20

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:11 PM

3. It's a good question.

I'd like to think we have time to decide and see what naturally occurs.

That being said O'Malley is a great pick IMO.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:14 PM

5. I think that will be sorted out in the next primary election.

I am thinking most Democrats will be looking for a new direction?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #5)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:16 PM

7. Think again.

 

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:17 PM

10. I thought again.

Sorry.

It was the same.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #10)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:19 PM

13. The definition of insanity.

 

Rabid repetition combined with the delusion of representing millions.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #13)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 07:32 AM

104. lol you should know. your posts are a vivid illustration of that.

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Response to cali (Reply #104)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:38 AM

126. too bad you can't snuff them all with alerts, eh? That is your MO.

 

But it's not working anymore, is it?

People around here are tired of all the old tricks.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #5)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:29 PM

26. I think most progressives want a different direction.

I'm not sure most Democrats do.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #26)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:53 PM

54. True Dat!

The Democratic party has definitely changed. I've switched to Independent and have a whole new bag of hate mail to wade thorough.

This is not the "school house rocks" batch of Democrats that used to fill the party.



-p

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:16 PM

8. Martin O'Malley. Please review his record. He has been a strong supporter of

many progressive policies. He has also been a bulldog speaking about Christie's far right record.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:17 PM

9. Yup.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:20 PM

15. Being from MD as well...

Yeah, I have him well ahead of Hillary in my book.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:22 PM

17. I love his record on education.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:22 PM

18. And there you have it: Clinton/O'Malley

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #18)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:24 PM

21. no. I will not vote for Hillary for President.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #21)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:31 PM

27. You're staying home on Election Day?

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #21)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:31 PM

28. just FYI, you do not have to tell anyone who you will vote for

 

Personally, I dislike it when people give others the third degree over this. It really is none of their business who someone may or may not vote for, IMHO.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #28)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:36 PM

33. I really don't care if they give me the third degree or not. They cannot force to me to vote for

someone I don't want to vote for.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #33)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:38 PM

37. True, and they can ask about who you might vote for, but no one has to answer

 

Personally, I would reply - "And this is any of your business because...." But that is me.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #37)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:42 PM

42. Uh, I'm just asking a follow up question.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #42)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:57 PM

56. It's not just you

 

It is just a pet peeve of mine, many duers seem to probe and prod about this topic, asking for all manner of details, and I guess as more of a private person it just bothers me when I see it.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #18)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 04:25 PM

149. I'd lose a lot of respect for Marty having known him for nearly 15 years...

if he ever hitched his career to Sec. Clinton.

No Hillary ever.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:47 PM

48. He is a great organizer and has pushed through many good issues in MD

He is stable, a good negotiater and a hard worker.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #48)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 07:10 AM

102. I'm warming up to O'Malley

I was underwhelmed by his speech at the DNC. But he has a solid record and is a good age for taking on an 8 yr national commitment.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #8)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:14 AM

122. Yup. I really like this guy.


I think he would be a far better president than Clinton. We need some fresh ideas in the WH.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:17 PM

11. just a weeeeee bit early

 

We don't even know Hillary will be in the mix.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #11)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:23 PM

19. Hillary is running and Huma Abedin is on her campaign.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #19)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:25 PM

22. I'll believe it when she formally announces

 

which still won't be for a couple years yet. It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to know who will be running in 2016 anyway.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #19)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:13 PM

142. Which is a problem due to her Anthony Weiner baggage

..and the fact that he can't seem to shut up when someone sticks a mike in front of him. This was actually a topic on GMA this morning.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #11)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:43 PM

43. BS, we need to start looking NOW for a challenger.

This is not too early. You think she's waffling about running? Because she's not!

Only thing getting in her way would be her health.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #43)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:47 PM

47. Have you seen her lately?

 

She does not look so good. She has put on weight I think. If she was so serious, she would be keeping in top shape. She seemed to be letting herself go a bit.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #47)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:58 PM

58. Looks fine in the election reform speech.

Looks like she even tried some botox (nothing overboard but definitely in the cheeks and forehead).

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #58)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:01 AM

62. Ok, well I saw a Barbara Walters interview with her and she looked bad, like in her face she had

 

gained weight it seemed, and that usually means they have gained weight. Maybe she has worked it off since then, I guess that interview was months ago.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #62)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:10 AM

68. Could have been a bad case of jet lag. Dog knows she's traveled enough. n/t

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #68)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:13 AM

72. huh, good point

 

I guess it could have been something else then. Anyway, we will see. I think she is getting older now, and I hate to say it, but looks matter. Especially for a woman. She needs to be in top shape, and look as good as possible if she is serious. Maybe even get plastic surgery if there is something not looking good because of the aging process.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #72)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:16 AM

76. She is getting older and some women get saggy skin under their chin. I really don't care what

she looks like. I will not vote for her, but I don't think she should have to get plastic surgery just to run for President.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #76)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:39 AM

88. I understand that. But think about this, as the president you are going to be photographed 24/7, and

 

on camera constantly. Think about millions upon millions, hell billions, looking at close-ups of your face everyday in pictures and on the tv. It does matter how you look in this modern age, where everyone is looking at your face all the time, and you want to try and look as good as possible if running for such a high profile position.

It is no accident that Barack Obama is extremely photogenic and handsome. It served him well.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #72)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 01:46 AM

96. Oh for Christs sake !

I suppose that Abe Lincoln would have a helluva bad time winning these days if he didn't have plastic surgery. Intelligent people don't vote for good looks.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #62)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:13 AM

71. I actually just spent some time going over pics (pics inside).

Which is why it took a minute to respond. She definitely looked bad in the Walters interview and I think in the Benghazi hearing she looked terrible. But at least as early as June she seems to be trying something new. Just look at her at the CFDA Fashion Awards.



Compare to Benghazi:



Of course, as a woman, image is going to be extremely important to a campaign if she runs. It's going to make Al Gore's clothing choices look like nothing (I know the Daily Howler had a piece on how the media repeatedly called out Al Gore's clothing choices but I can't find it).

I even had to put "pics inside" because I just know someone is going to respond horrified that a 65 year old woman looks her age...

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #71)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:16 AM

74. Yea, she does look better there, especially in the top pic

 

That looks more like the Hillary I recognize.

The bottom pic may just be an unflattering angle, so I can excuse that.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #74)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:21 AM

78. Skip to about 1:14 on this video:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/san_francisco&id=9204055

She definitely looks a lot better than before.

And no the Benghazi pics are really bad, that was the best one I could find, because she was basically talking / showing a very stern face in the rest. It's the best angle, in fact.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #78)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:26 AM

81. Ok, yea, she does look better there

 

I'm just worried a bit, because the 2016 election is three years away. Hopefully, she will still look good then, if she is running for president.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #47)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:21 AM

123. She is looking pretty good here....


stylebistro.com
8/13 2013
Looking plenty good enough to be in style Bistro.

And besides:
Hillary Clinton Meets With Diet Guru As 2016 Speculation Ramps Up
August 7, 2013

The former secretary of state who left the Obama administration to recharge her batteries after traveling the world for four years has been spotted with diet guru Dr. Mark Hyman, who helped former President Bill Clinton lose weight on a vegan diet.

http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2013/08/07/hillary-clinton-meets-with-diet-guru-as-2016-speculation-ramps-up/

How about giving a little credit where credit is due? She is a very hard worker and being a senator, then running a campaign and topping that off with the physically demanding job as SoS did take a toll on her. But she is not letting herself go. She is working to be in top shape.

Your comment was ill informed.

Edit to add: Lets not forget the nasty fall she took at home that caused a blood clot on her brain. She's over come a lot physically and is bouncing back just fine. Seems she has some pretty fine DNA going on.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:02 AM

63. I always try to

expect the worst.

So I am afraid she will be, and it will take a miracle to keep her from getting the nomination.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 03:04 AM

100. Is this all some kind of grand theater to distract from the next actual election?

 

Aside from some retaliatory snark directed at the most annoying of the usual suspects, I just avoid this topic.

As you say, 2016 is way off and 2014 could well make it irrelevant. Hell, she'll be 70 by the next Presidential, she might decide that she wants to enjoy what life she's got left by then. For that matter, she might be dead by then.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:20 PM

14. I still think this is too early, but... Is it odd that I like Biden?

I know he is gaffe prone to some, but... I like the guy.

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Response to Xyzse (Reply #14)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:38 PM

35. I could see Biden as our next President.

He's not perfect but then who is. He is a fighter (remember the debates?) and I would easily pick him over Hillary.

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Response to Marie Marie (Reply #35)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:09 AM

97. Yes, but he is getting old and needs to get some botox. At least that is what I heard if anyone

wants to run for Prez.

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Response to Xyzse (Reply #14)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:39 PM

39. I like Biden as well. A lot in fact.

 

How much influence has Obama had on him though?

If Joe could convince me that he wouldn't rub shoulders with financial moguls, I would love to support him.

The next candidate must come clean early on social security, surveillance, fresh ideas on dealing with terrorism that don't include creating huge, expensive, private contractor dependent Departments, equitable taxation, ideas to stop offshore cash hoarding, setting government standards with respect to organized labor, cripes....the list is endless.


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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:32 PM

31. Message here is liberals will stay home and hold their breath..next..

Do we really need to hear this BULLSHIT?? Do we? Perhaps Free Republic falls more in with your thinking.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #31)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 04:27 PM

150. based on the numbers saying it...

perhaps you might heed it.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:33 PM

32. do any of you think Gore might give it another whirl?

 

just had a fleeting thought about it

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Response to sad-cafe (Reply #32)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 01:31 AM

93. I think he should and I think he could definitely win

A few things: his longstanding position on climate change; his willingness to step out and speak against the war in Iraq before Bush* launched it; and here is that word again -- "lockbox."

He is more of a liberal than Hillary and less of a corporatist. It has to be a heavy-weight whoever the Dems run, and he is definitely that. Unfortunately, I have heard no noises that he is thinking about running, but who knows, he was going to sit out the race in 1992 until Bill called, and he did contemplate running in 2004 but changed his mind. So one never knows. And since he would need to balance his ticket with someone from the North, perhaps he could find a female Senator from Massachusetts to run with him.

Sam

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Response to Samantha (Reply #93)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 07:23 AM

103. I'd vote for Al Gore in a heartbeat

He should have the chance to run again for the office he was cheated out of.

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Response to sad-cafe (Reply #32)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:18 AM

98. Too old. Needs botox.

n

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:38 PM

36. certainly someone who did not support those insane wars

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:40 PM

40. Posted a similar thread, mostly waffling, no real answers.

You can see my thread here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251317676

Unsurprisingly, your thread appears to be following the same route.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #40)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:47 PM

46. Remember the "anyone but Mitt" calls by many Republicans?

 

Different folks led the polls at different times. Newt. Cain.

Santorum gave him a run in a couple of state where he was outspent 200-1.

In the end, Mitt got the nomination and he lost.


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Response to mick063 (Reply #46)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:49 PM

50. I definitely remember and hell I even fell for it at times.

I thought Romney was a goner. Just look at the primaries:



It was insane.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #40)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:57 PM

57. why must we be herded into picking one person especially right now?

The media tells us who we should vote for, the political party leaders tell us who we should vote for, people on message boards tell us who we should vote for. How about if we act like individuals and wait to see who actually runs, research their voting records, make up or own minds and then vote for who we think best represents our values. I don't take kindly to anybody telling me how to think or who to vote for. I will vote for whomever I feel will best fight the rich and best represent the 99%. If you want to vote for Hillary, then vote for Hillary, but stay out of my voting booth.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #57)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:59 PM

60. We need to find a challenger!

God. What the fuck. Don't look for someone to challenge the most likely candidate we don't like? Is that what you're telling me?

Do you want to vote for Hillary or not?

I damn sure as hell don't.

So it's necessary to begin this process now. Even if she doesn't run we need to find a good candidate we actually want to back.

And not a faux-populist like Obama.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #60)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:04 AM

64. I agree we need to find a challenger but it's okay if it doesn't happen today or tomorrow.

We don't have to narrow the field down to one right this freakin minute. We don't even know who is running yet.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #64)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:16 AM

75. This isn't about knowing who is running.

It's about knowing who is able to challenge a potential Clinton run!

And backing that person.

And persuading them to run.

And showing them we'll work for them, canvas for them, fight for them.

Similar as to how the Draft Gore movement was, but something tangible.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #75)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:26 AM

80. I'm sorry I don't play the persuade game. I don't believe in trying to browbeat people into

doing what you want them to do. People not only think they can persuade politicians to run they think they can persuade people who to vote for. No body persuades me who to vote for. And I don't go around persuading people who they should vote for. To me, it's kind of like evangelical Christians going around trying to convert people. Not only is it annoying, but it really doesn't work as well as you think it does. When a liberal puts their hat in the ring, I will put in my time and money to help get out the vote, but I won't be working to try and persuade anybody.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #80)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:30 AM

83. What do you think campaigning is?

It's persuading constituents to vote for you!

I'm not asking you to do shit, I'm asking your opinion on who is a good candidate, so I can back them if I believe they are viable as opposed to doing nothing. As it stands now I'll happily wait for the nomination process to go through without lifting a finger.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #83)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:38 AM

85. I don't care if you lift a finger or not. Geez why is it everybody on this board thinks they get to

tell people what to do? Getting out the vote is important especially now that voting rights are being turned back and it now takes more to vote than before. I will be glad to help with that. I am even happy to help inform people of their choices in case they don't have enough information. I will gladly gather with those who support the same candadite I do to show my support. But I will not try and convert people. That just isn't what I do. That isn't the kind of person I am. If you don't like that, too bad.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #85)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:49 AM

89. Who is telling anyone what to do?

You don't have to express an opinion on a possible Hillary challenger.

I frankly am unconvinced anyone knows who could challenge a Hillary candidacy.

Which is why everyone is waffling and just waiting to see what happens.

The damn writing is on the wall. Hillary is going to run barring health issues.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:43 PM

44. Elijah Cummings

He is an excellent Congressman.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #44)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 09:28 AM

113. I just googled his record on the issues

I was very impressed.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:50 PM

51. Russ Feingold (nt)

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:59 PM

59. I'd have a lot more respect for the "I won't vote for Hillary" crowd...

...if I thought for a moment they were going to actively engage in the hard work of convincing an acceptable candidate to run, raising the tens of millions of dollars that the political system we currently have requires to be viable, and were engaged in the challenge of convincing the electorate that the candidate they like is an acceptable choice for the middle of the road voters. So far, all I see is grousing and fantasizing from within the secure cocoon of a keyboard.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #59)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:01 AM

61. I don't really care if you have respect for me or not.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #61)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:09 AM

67. Thanks very much for your response...

...because I AM working to encourage the candidates I like to run (I had a private meeting with one at the Convention); raising and contributing money and working to get them elected. And when you sit at home complaining, it makes my job easier.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #67)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:34 AM

84. So who is it?

 

It would go a long way toward what I think of your hard work.

Everyone sits at home but you? No one works harder than you?

Is this your message?

Regardless, I don't pull the lever for "third way" and I will do my best to convince others likewise.

I must admit that I have not raised millions like you have. I have raised a few hundred though.

After thinking it through, I thought I should be more accurate and change the thousand to hundred. Convincing others to donate doesn't count....right?

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Response to mick063 (Reply #84)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:47 PM

132. Not saying I'm the only person politically engaged...

I'm saying I see no sign that the people grumbling here are. I've seen posts in the past urging financial support for an existing Democratic candidate, or petitioning for policy changes, but I've seen nothing organizing a "Draft Warren/Grayson/Brown/etc." movement, just complaining that the pro-Hillary people ARE getting organized (revelation - I've been approached by the "Ready for Hillary" people to support their efforts). Maybe Elizabeth Warren WOULD be a good candidate and maybe I would support her (I suspect that if she ran, it wouldn't be as a radical leftist who disagreed with Clinton on every policy you can think of -- much to the disappointment of some people) if she showed me that she could be competitive with independent moderate voters in the swing states. But since my information tells me she's not running (I know one of her fundraisers -- would it surprise you to know she got a lot of money from Wall Street?), I'm focusing on the people who may be. If Hillary runs, I'll support her; if she doesn't, I've reached out to Brian Schweitzer to encourage him to run. I've told him what I think his strengths are and what issue he may face. And I've told him that I'd try to rustle up support (financial and otherwise) from my friends and political acquaintances. It's an approach I'd recommend to others.





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Response to brooklynite (Reply #59)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:08 AM

65. Can't do all that alone. All I have is my one vote. Hillary will not get it. nt

 

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #65)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:09 AM

121. Sad...if only there was a way for you to communicate with other people...

...maybe a way to form discussion groups where like-minded could share their thoughts and ideas about how to promote the candidate of their choice...

...maybe even organize meetings to work together in person...

...and to research names and addresses of prospective candidate to contact them and encourage them to run...

...and to send mail to newspapers promoting your candidate and his/her policies...

...and maybe it could all be part of an electronic communicaitons network...

A pipe dream, I'm sure.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #59)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:12 AM

70. Keeping in mind that I supported Hillary in '08, and will most likely do so in '16

...supporters of an Illinois Senator named Barack Obama did indeed actively engage in the hard work of convincing an acceptable candidate to run, raised the tens of millions of dollars that the political system we currently have requires to be viable, and were engaged in the challenge of convincing the electorate that the candidate they liked was an acceptable choice for the middle of the road voters. At the outset, I didn't think he had a hope in Hell of being nominated, much less elected. I was proven very wrong.

..so it can be done.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #59)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:06 AM

120. This post

will keep them awake at nights.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:12 AM

69. Anybody, I don't care who

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result - isn't that the definition of insanity?

By the time Bill Clinton left office I was happy to see him go. The good things he did were outweighed by the pro business, pro war attitudes that characterized most of the policies he championed.

Somehow, I thought things would be different with Obama. Then I thought they would be different when he was freed from having to run for re-election. I'm not yet to the point of saying I'll be happy to see him leave office but I sure am disappointed.

At this point I have finally realized the insanity of voting for corporate Democrats and expecting them to act like real Democrats. So why should I vote for another corporate Democrat.

You know, there's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again.

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Response to tularetom (Reply #69)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:14 AM

73. OK..you don't care who.

Wish granted - the nominee is Joe Manchin.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #73)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 09:58 AM

116. Well, he is on the NRA's shit list for proposing to tighten background check rules

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:20 AM

77. I would have a hard time voting for someone who voted for the Iraq war,

but I know that vote will be somewhat easier when I see the Republican pick.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:28 AM

82. Hopefully, a progressive or, at least, a liberal for a change.

I'd like to have a Democrat I can vote for in '16.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #82)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:39 AM

86. +1

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:39 AM

87. We have a very limited bench other than Secretary Clinton. Biden is IMHO too old...

Senator Warren has exhibited absolutely no interest in running and, considering the recent history of nominees from Massachusetts, that's probably for the best. Ditto for Patrick Deval. O'Malley is a good guy but would be very hard pressed to find enough money to fight back against the Republican juggernaut. Cuomo, meh possible but its hard to accept some of his positions. Gillibrand, Malloy, Whitehouse don't have the name recognition nor do Udall or Merkeley. Warner, Bayh and Nixon are too conservative for most Democratic primary voters, Jerry Brown will be 78 on election day 2016 and Pat Leahy 76-both pushing it very hard.

I simply don't see much to work with other than Secretary Clinton. She's eminently qualified, mature but not geriatric, can raise whatever is needed and can bring several southern states to play beyond the Obama playbook. Should she choose to run, she'll probably run the table and DU will be a MUCH quieter place.

FWIW, I very much hope she does so perhaps my judgment is clouded.

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Response to Rowdyboy (Reply #87)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:28 AM

124. +1 I very much hope she does also!

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Response to Rowdyboy (Reply #87)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:00 PM

137. I generally agree, although you left out Al Gore

Gore could take one more shot, and he could find money. He may not have invented the internet, but there are some tech companies that would love to see him in the WH.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #137)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 04:04 PM

148. It wasn't deliberate-he's just kept such a low profile I forgot about the possibility...

I've really admired the man for decades but in all honesty he was not a great candidate. And the Lieberman pick was a disaster.

Also forgot about Brian Schweitzer who should run but probably won't. I don't blame him for his lack of interest in serving in DC. What a shithole these days.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 01:02 AM

90. Clinton/Weiner



I would vote for her if I have too. But I prefer some other female candidate. Warren would be best, IMO, but we'll see. Clinton has a lot of experience, but a lot of baggage to go with it. And that "Sniper Fire" BS just pissed me off. No need to lie about stupid stuff that can be shown to be a lie. I tend to see those people as pathological liars.

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #90)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 09:23 AM

111. weiner/holder

just for the bumperstickers

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Response to SwampG8r (Reply #111)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 11:23 AM

129. DUzy!

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 01:07 AM

91. Elizabeth Warren

Smart, savvy, decent, and doesn't salivate over the 99% as a morsal to hand to Wall Street.

How we could even consider a prevaricating Third-Way warmonger like Clinton is beyond me. 20+ years of Third Way rapaciousness, and where are we? In an awful, awful place, I'd say. Time for some sort of real Democrat in the White House.

As a Bay Stater, I knew that Dukakis and Kerry would be toast when they ran. But Warren is made of different stuff. She will politely but firmly eviscerate any Republican.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 01:08 AM

92. Idk.

I'm voting for Hillary.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 01:39 AM

94. JOE BIDEN

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 05:33 AM

101. Liz Warren. Al Franken. Martin O'Malley. Anyone seen Brian Schweitzer lately? Gavin Newsom. Al Gore.

That's right, Al Gore.

He's younger than Biden. Why not? Unlike Biden, and Hillary, he doesn't have an IWR vote to account for.

And unlike Biden, he of the RAVE act, he's not an long-time drug war enabler.



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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #101)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 07:46 AM

106. He certainly has the money to run

He has no record since 2000, other than "An Inconvenient Truth." And the climate deniers will vote against him anyway.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #106)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 09:36 AM

115. I'd like to see Gore and/or Dean run. I could easily vote for either of those. I don't think

Warren is ready, but I'd vote for her in a heartbeat, too.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 07:49 AM

107. Hillary's Game...

...Freeze 'em. She won't announce her candidacy for quite some time as by doing this she makes it difficult for any challenger to raise cash from the "usual" donors who either are already committed to a Hillary run or don't want to be on the outside should she win the nomination.

I don't think Hillary's nomination is inevitable or do I want it to be. I welcome as many challengers into the primary pool as possible. It serves the party well as it always expands the debate and draws in more people into the process. However anyone whose serious at a run in 2016 needs to start lining their ducks up right now. This isn't just money but organization...developing the ground game that is needed to do well in Iowa, New Hampshire and the other early primary/caucus states.

One wildcard very much in play is 2014...Democrats really need to focus on the state and local races as that's where the greatest damage to our liberties is happening. With rushpublicans controlling legislatures in over half the states means more attempts to suppress the vote and change the electoral dynamics in 2016...

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 08:42 AM

109. There are almost 1,100 days left until the election, this discussion can wait a year or so.

I believe the correct number is 1,088 or thereabouts. We really don't have to decide today. This discussion is along the lines of Christmas sales starting on the 4th of July.

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Response to 1-Old-Man (Reply #109)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 01:57 PM

135. GMA was discussing whether Hillary is running this morning.

I realize that we are not even 7 months into Barack Obama's second term, but there it is.

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Response to 1-Old-Man (Reply #109)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 04:44 PM

152. You're welcome to wait...the candidatess won't be

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 09:10 AM

110. No Turd Way candidates for me.

Clinton or any other. I will not support or vote for ANY of them ever again. Never.

Earn my support and vote, I don't owe it to any political party or person.

I have principles and integrity, I expect my elected officials to have them also.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 09:26 AM

112. Who?

 

I guess we need to wait past 2014 to find out.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 09:34 AM

114. I see this question all the time.

My answer is always the same.

ANY non-neoliberal Democrat will do.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:32 AM

125. Howard Dean screams for me. nt

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 11:43 AM

130. I'd love to see maggie Hassan make a run for it myself.

Experienced legislator and executive.

Rabidly pro-choice.
Pro marriage equality.
Pro-education.
She's pro-green, and supported the regional greenhouse gas reduction unitive.
She's pro public health-care, and insurance reform.
Pro-Union.

The right will probably attack her lack of experience in international affairs, but after running Palin in 2008 just a heartbeat away from the Presidency, they don't have a leg to stand on with that argument.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:09 PM

140. Someone who really wants the job, with a progressive platform?

I haven't seen Clinton even begin running yet.

I despise dynasties, but am willing to be persuaded. Can't we do better than another half-hearted liberal?

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:10 PM

141. Errrr....

Somebody else?

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Response to Spirochete (Reply #141)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:14 PM

143. I don't think we can nominate "Somebody Else"

Even though I think "Somebody Else" would be a popular choice in virtually any election. "Somebody Else" has vast, bi-partisan appeal.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #143)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:28 PM

145. I know. i don't really have my list

of "Somebody Else" candidates made yet, but there will be no Hillary/Schumer/Max Baucus/Feinstein/Obama types on it. More like Franken/Boxer/Warren/O'Malley/ types.


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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:24 PM

144. Not that she's ever even remotely shown interest but, I could see voting for Patty Murray...

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 05:13 PM

154. Elizabeth Warren n/t

 

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 05:44 PM

157. This place reminds me a lot of Free Republic, lots of angst over their "moderate" candidates.

Over there, it's "anyone but Christie". Who they think has a chance at the WH? Palin, Cruz, Paul, Ryan and some other extreme RW kooks. The list would have included Rubio, but they are angry at him over the proposed immigration bill.

Over here, it's "anyone but Hillary". Who is in the dream list of progressives? Warren, Dean, O'Malley, Franken and even Biden, who is already 70 years old.

Are we going to have three years of hand wringing and vows not to vote for Hillary even if she's the nominee?

It's going to be a looooong three years.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #157)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 05:59 PM

159. there are just as many Hillary supporters starting threads about her running. They are just

chomping at the bit. They just can't wait.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #159)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 07:05 PM

161. I'm hoping that she runs, but I have no clue whether she will or not.

Although I don't blame others who are chomping at the bit. I guess we who support her have been chomping at the bit since 2008. Still, I see a lot more posts crapping on Hillary than supporting her. Not that it surprises me since this site was clearly more pro Obama in 2008 than pro Hillary.

I just wish everybody kept their powder dry, otherwise it's going to be a contentious time around here.

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