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Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:09 PM

I'm getting pretty sick and goddam tired of being told I hate Obama.

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Violet_Crumble (a host of the General Discussion forum).

It's a shortcut to thinking, a puny tin shield to throw up in front of legitimate criticism.

The president deserves - nay, requires - criticism.

Conversation on this board has been reduced to "You're just a ____________!" vs. "Well, you're just a _________________!"

Lame.

I voted for the man three times, primary included.

Given the chance in another general election, I'd likely do it again.

But I am honor and duty-bound as a citizen to speak up when I see something amiss - as are you, as are we all - and there has been plenty amiss in this administration.

So kindly shut the fuck up about how much I, or anyone else here, "hates" the president.

Thank you for your attention.

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Arrow 75 replies Author Time Post
Reply I'm getting pretty sick and goddam tired of being told I hate Obama. (Original post)
WilliamPitt Aug 2013 OP
ProSense Aug 2013 #1
WilliamPitt Aug 2013 #7
grasswire Aug 2013 #9
Cha Aug 2013 #31
Bake Aug 2013 #33
ProSense Aug 2013 #46
nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #2
Baitball Blogger Aug 2013 #3
msongs Aug 2013 #4
stevenleser Aug 2013 #5
cthulu2016 Aug 2013 #13
stevenleser Aug 2013 #17
cthulu2016 Aug 2013 #23
stevenleser Aug 2013 #32
Puglover Aug 2013 #37
stevenleser Aug 2013 #41
Puglover Aug 2013 #43
stevenleser Aug 2013 #47
Puglover Aug 2013 #54
stevenleser Aug 2013 #56
Just Saying Aug 2013 #60
grasswire Aug 2013 #21
stevenleser Aug 2013 #27
Marr Aug 2013 #57
stevenleser Aug 2013 #65
Marr Aug 2013 #71
MADem Aug 2013 #55
WorseBeforeBetter Aug 2013 #6
treestar Aug 2013 #8
grasswire Aug 2013 #16
NoOneMan Aug 2013 #39
Hydra Aug 2013 #42
sheshe2 Aug 2013 #72
PSPS Aug 2013 #53
monmouth3 Aug 2013 #10
bvar22 Aug 2013 #11
Skittles Aug 2013 #22
Maedhros Aug 2013 #38
LWolf Aug 2013 #67
Aristus Aug 2013 #12
millennialmax Aug 2013 #14
Skittles Aug 2013 #18
millennialmax Aug 2013 #20
Skittles Aug 2013 #24
millennialmax Aug 2013 #29
Skittles Aug 2013 #36
Skittles Aug 2013 #15
LiberalEsto Aug 2013 #19
grasswire Aug 2013 #25
Wait Wut Aug 2013 #26
Progressive dog Aug 2013 #28
Whisp Aug 2013 #40
hlthe2b Aug 2013 #30
phleshdef Aug 2013 #34
stevenleser Aug 2013 #44
Skittles Aug 2013 #45
phleshdef Aug 2013 #59
Whisp Aug 2013 #35
Jakes Progress Aug 2013 #48
stevenleser Aug 2013 #51
quinnox Aug 2013 #49
sufrommich Aug 2013 #50
stevenleser Aug 2013 #52
MADem Aug 2013 #62
sufrommich Aug 2013 #73
JDPriestly Aug 2013 #58
stevenleser Aug 2013 #61
stevenleser Aug 2013 #66
Marr Aug 2013 #68
stevenleser Aug 2013 #75
Puglover Aug 2013 #69
Zorra Aug 2013 #63
Faryn Balyncd Aug 2013 #64
Drunken Irishman Aug 2013 #70
Violet_Crumble Aug 2013 #74

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:11 PM

1. Think about how it feels to be called a paid shill and constantly have people invoking "blue links"

Get thick skin.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:17 PM

7. . . . . . .





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Response to ProSense (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:19 PM

9. there is no parallel

Will is not engaging in behavior that is hateful of Obama.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:27 PM

31. You take it well, PS.. You're amazing in the way you just let

it fall off your shoulders..



October 22, 2008
Cool as a Cucumber

I have been a bad blogger lately... I want to pick it back up but probably not until after the elections! Just wanted to share this great shot of Barack Obama brushing something off his shoulder. Just the way he brushed off all of McCain's stupidities in the last debate!

http://www.slowtrav.com/blog/chiocciola/2008/10/

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Response to ProSense (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:28 PM

33. You have 103,000 posts.

Of those, 102,299 have been either (a) parroting the Administration line, or (b) attacking critics of the Administration.

I'm with Pitt on this one. I'm a Democrat, and I voted for the President twice and drove voters to the polls to do the same thing.

But when criticism is merited, it's our duty.

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #33)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:34 PM

46. You can count. n/t

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:14 PM

2. Why humor and derision of such hate talk are in order

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:14 PM

3. I feel your pain.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:16 PM

4. derogatory slurs are the norm if you dare disagree with specific or general policy,

slurs designed to shut you down...or up as the case may be. but this is DemocraticUnderground not ObamaUnderground. Some people are unable or unwilling to get that

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:17 PM

5. I second Prosense's statements. I think this would mean more if you criticized the other side's name

calling and pigeonholing as well.

You cannot have the slightest dialogue on this without being called all kinds of names. The kinds of things you are pointing out are a reaction to the ridiculous responses one got/gets if one does not agree with the prevailing narrative on Snowden/Manning/Assange/Greenwald.

I think it's the responsibility of those who were behaving that way from day one to stop.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:20 PM

13. "Both sides do it"

Whatever.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:22 PM

17. No, it's not even that "both sides do it". It's the other sides fault its happening to begin with.

They are the ones who reacted to challenges of their preferred narrative with name-calling. That is where this comes from.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:24 PM

23. LOL.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:27 PM

32. You can pretend to laugh, but look downthread. Which side is already name-calling here? nt

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:29 PM

37. LOL x 100

Wow!

Yes the poor innocent dears are simply reacting to the evil haters. Gawd.

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Response to Puglover (Reply #37)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:30 PM

41. Except, my point is already proven by namecalling downthread. Nice try though. nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #41)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:32 PM

43. Once again.

LOL

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Response to Puglover (Reply #43)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:34 PM

47. And once again, look downthread. My point is already made and proven. nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #47)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:39 PM

54. Clearly you are not getting my point.

I don't think it would be possible for me to take you or your point any less seriously then I do.

Have a nice weekend.

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Response to Puglover (Reply #54)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:40 PM

56. I dont care what you think of my point. It's proven whether you care to see it or not. nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:43 PM

60. +1

It's hard to take seriously the cries to stop the name-calling when anyone who supports the President is a "paid shill," "apologist" or worse.

Both sides need to STFU with the juvenile behavior. Make your arguments with facts. That crap makes DU suck.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:24 PM

21. oh, the "moral equivalence" argument?

Or is it the 1st grade playground argument?

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Response to grasswire (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:26 PM

27. Neither. For instance, notice there is already name calling here in response to this OP. Which side

do you think is doing it? Hint: The derogatory term is "Swooners". Look downthread.

It's such a kneejerk reaction from one side, its being done here without any seeming awareness of how ironic it is.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:41 PM

57. Emoprogs. Firebaggers. Reactionary Screamers.

Apologists have been shouting insults at everyone around here who disagreed since very early in Obama's first term. They used to dominate the board.

What's changed is Obama's overall number of unconditional supporters. There just aren't very many of them left.

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Response to Marr (Reply #57)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:46 PM

65. No one in this thread has used those terms. Now you have used "Apologist" That is the third name in

response to Will's OP and all from one side against the other side.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #65)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:50 PM

71. Apologist is an actual word and an accurate description.

Are you seriously equating that to something like "emoprog"?

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:40 PM

55. +1 nt

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:17 PM

6. I don't really care what they accuse me of...

but K&R anyway.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:18 PM

8. I'm sick and goddammed tired of being called a cheerleader

authoritarian. All of that goes both ways.

Presidents require support also. Constant criticism and never being happy by the alleged "base" lets the media go on about "weakness." Some people seem to prefer criticizing over making any progress. And some of the criticism is so illogical and outlandish that one has to wonder what it's really about.

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Response to treestar (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:22 PM

16. Presidents EARN s upport.

Like any politician.

Will voted for Obama three times, based on the promises Obama made.

A voter has a DUTY to criticize politicians who either fail to comply with their oath of office or fail to live up to their promises.

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Response to treestar (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:30 PM

39. "Presidents require support"

 




Policies that can be judged as beneficial earn arguments on their own merits. Politicians that actually do their job and implement them don't need a pat on the head to do it for us. And those that don't.....they don't require or deserve shit

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Response to treestar (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:30 PM

42. We support the President when he does good things

But the idea that he should get it just because he's the President is absurd. Good job = yay! and more support. Bad job = boo! and looking elsewhere.

And he gets a BIG "Boo!" when he's pushing RW stuff. I didn't vote for Caribou Barbie or Mittens the Thief.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #42)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:50 PM

72. Please link to me all the posts

where "We support the President when he does good things".

Please I would honestly love to read them.

Granted I have not been here long, however I do not remember reading any. I have also not read posts about issues such as VAWA, VRA, Women's Rights etc. I have not seen 'Your" side jump on any of these impassioned pleas for support and change.

I

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Response to treestar (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:39 PM

53. "Presidents require support also"

Not blind support regardless of their actions. That's where you're wrong. How can any American support a president (or anyone) who thinks the bill of rights is now "open to debate?" You'd be screaming like crazy if Bush were doing it. The fact that you feel it's OK for Obama means you're enthralled by the man to the point that you're blinded to what's going on. You're acting like this is some game show where the "winner" is decided by an applause meter. We've progressed far beyond that pettiness. We now have a so-called "constitutional scholar" as president who wants to "debate" whether we should have the bill of rights. I'll never be OK with that.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:19 PM

10. I remember many years ago when I first found DU the great thinkers and interesting writers that were

numerous on this site. They have long ago left and I understand why...

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:19 PM

11. Its the same four people...over..and over...and over again.

Put them on IGNORE,
and problem solved.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:24 PM

22. I AGREE

it puts DU back to the way it used to be, where we could discuss issues without the equivalent of five year olds in the forums screaming and stamping their feet

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:29 PM

38. New ones are popping up to replace the ignored ones.[n/t]

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:48 PM

67. I've gone years without having anyone on ignore.

I "ignored" without using the function, for the most part, rarely letting myself get lured in.

I recently put one poster on ignore, because the number of single-issue OPs attacking dissent, any and all dissent, were littering the front page to a degree I was no longer willing to put up with.

Interestingly enough, this thread seems to be a response to that poster.

I'm wondering if I should put my "ignore" list back to zero. Probably not.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:20 PM

12. Damn right we have a right and a duty to question our leaders...



Never better said than here...

Thanks, Will!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:21 PM

14. You have two options:

 

a. Don't engage in behavior that leads people to believe that.

b. Shrug it off and carry on.

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Response to millennialmax (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:22 PM

18. c. PUT THE SWOONERS ON IGNORE

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Response to Skittles (Reply #18)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:23 PM

20. Define swooner. I'm curious. eom

 

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Response to millennialmax (Reply #20)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:25 PM

24. you remind me of the people who say, DEFINE GUN HUMPERS

please; NOT EVEN worth my time

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Response to Skittles (Reply #24)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:26 PM

29. Well, at least we agree on gun humpers.

 

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Response to millennialmax (Reply #29)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:29 PM

36. LOL

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:21 PM

15. it's just the swooners and they are NOT CREDIBLE

they are simply not worth feeling insulted over

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:22 PM

19. K&R

Nobody should be above criticism.

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Response to LiberalEsto (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:25 PM

25. and didn't Obama tell us to hold his feet to the fire? nt

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:25 PM

26. I admire you, Mr. Pitt...

...but, ProSense has a good argument here. While you may be sick of being told you 'hate' our President, many of us are sick of being called paid shills, trolls, bots, worshippers, etc.

I try to stay out of the arguments as much as possible. I see them as distractions and childish. The only time I will get involved is when it pertains to DUers I care about. You and ProSense are two of those DUers. I'm not going to stretch it enough to say you're both two sides of a coin, but you obviously have your differences.

This is one of the similarities that many of us, on both sides of this argument, have. Let's face it, there are people here that haven't learned how to debate without name-calling.

(that's for your little girl. I don't like you THAT much, you Obama hater. )

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:26 PM

28. Most of the name calling I've seen comes from Obama attackers. nt

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:30 PM

40. you got that right.

 

it's a friggen septic tank here of Obama hate. it's RushLand.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:27 PM

30. I'm with you Will. My support for Obama is appropriately critical & NOT NOW or EVER, SYCOPHANCY

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:29 PM

34. The problem is, reasonable critics are being conflated with hateful hyperbole addicts...

And there is a LOT of hateful hyperbole that gets thrown at the President around here. When I see that kind of stuff infesting every other thread where the President is part of the topic, it gets hard even for myself to make the right judgment on which is which. A lot of threads are turning into nothing more than one giant foamy mouthed gang bang of hyperbole filled attacks.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #34)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:34 PM

44. And lets look at that too, the reasonable critics aren't trying to reign in the hateful hyperbole

addicts either. They're pretty much just letting those folks say that stuff unchallenged.

There is already namecalling here in responses to Will's OP. All by one side. You dont even have to wonder which side it is. Its the same side that jumps to that reflexively all the time.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #34)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:34 PM

45. I have put some hateful hyperbole addicts on Ignore too

I highly suspect they are trolls

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Response to Skittles (Reply #45)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:43 PM

59. Some are, while others are so immersed in ideology, they get angry at anyone who wavers.

A lot of folks who I've argued with on here when defending the President or defending Democrats are people that, if we just sat down and compared noted on what we think the ideal policy is for any given issue, we probably agree 99%. But because I'm willing to cut the President and Democrats a break on some things that aren't ideal or because I may express disapproval of something (like the NSA's scope or the military industrial complex) without a million exclamation points and without pinning it all solely on President Obama, then I'm attacked for "kissing the king's ring" or being a "center right schmuck", so on and so forth. Then I eventually get all pissed off and start acting as nasty as they are (which I'm admittedly wanting to reign in just a little).

I approach politics with a flexible attitude and empathy for what some of those doing the governing have to deal with (the President in particular). Some people, who I agree with on what the best outcome looks like, find that to be unacceptable and at the same time, I find their lack of patience and refusal to look at everything in context of the current political environment to be equally unacceptable and that's when heads start ramming into each other.

I don't really want to put anyone ignore. I haven't yet. I'd prefer to see what everyone is saying. Some posters have what I consider really shitty things to say about certain topics but very profound things to say about other topics.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:29 PM

35. poor baby

 

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:35 PM

48. That's their shortcut

for saying that they hate you. They hate you for making them think.

Teachers get that all the time.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #48)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:37 PM

51. Uh huh. As opposed to Swooner/Sycophant/3rd Way/DLC/Centrist/etc?

Does that mean you all hate us for making you think?

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:36 PM

49. The sycophants and groupies are not to be taken seriously, they don't represent liberals or

 

progressives in the least bit. What they do represent is unthinking sheep who dumbly nod their head in complete agreement every time their hero speaks, or tells them what to think, but that is about it.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:36 PM

50. Ive seen "paid shill" an " authoritarian"

way,way more than I've seen"you hate Obama". The fact is,there are some people on DU who agree with Obama,there's nothing trollish or nefarious about that.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #50)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:38 PM

52. Thanks, I momentarily forgot those. nt

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #50)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:45 PM

62. Don't forget apologist, lacky, cheerleader, toady....!

Stasi, "uber-stasi," lock-step, goose-step, saluting, friends with (fill in names of wingnuts)....a lot of nasty invective. Nazi is usually avoided because the obvious retort is "Godwin-you lose!"

Some very personal insults, too. "You must be ......." and "You must think ........" and what the person is or thinks is never anything very nice.

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Response to MADem (Reply #62)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:50 PM

73. You forgot "swooner". I never see this kind of

vitriol between democrats in real life,on DU it's almost cartoonish.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:42 PM

58. Thanks. I didn't just vote for him. I volunteered long hours for his election and re-election.

You should have seen me election day 2008. Up at 4:30 a.m. Drive to the polls a long way from my house. Stay there until 8:30 at night. So dead tired when I got home that I was already asleep when my daughter called: "Mom, did you hear?"

I thought we wouldn't know until the morning. Boy, was I wrong.

And 2012, I was out there starting to talk about the campaign way early in the spring, organizing. I am not a lazy person. I am willing to work for what is right. Electing Obama was right. I wish he would remember that people like me did not get out the vote and campaign for him so that we could have more of the bungling Bush. We want a strong Obama who stands for what is right and good and morally correct for our country, for the people of our country and not just for his friends in the banks and corporations. He seems to have forgotten where and who we are -- the little people who worked and voted for him and who got him elected.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:44 PM

61. So far, we have folks who support the President referred to as swooner and sycophant in response to

your OP.

And so far, no one here on the other side has called anyone on your side of this issue names, Will.

I think that makes my point crystal clear. The name-calling is so ingrained in those critical of the President on Snowden/Manning and their allegations that they don't seem to be able to even help it.

So what do you suggest the rest of the folks do? Ignore it and just take it? And in that kind of climate where so many people are throwing names back and forth, how can you be surprised that you get caught in the crossfire.

The work that needs to be done, needs to be done on your side. That's the side that jumps to name-calling right away.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #61)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:48 PM

66. We can add apologist to that now, by the way Will. That has now been used under your OP. nt

So far its three names by three different folks on your side under your OP, versus none on the other side.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #61)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:48 PM

68. That doesn't prove anything and you know it.

Seriously-- who is going to come into a thread with a title like this one and prove the OP right with casual namecalling? If this thread were called, "I'm sick of being called a sycophant", I expect you'd have your samples of "emoprog" or "firebagger" or whatever the name du jour is fairly quickly.

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Response to Marr (Reply #68)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:52 PM

75. You can try to assert that. But it's clear which side jumps to name-calling first and reflexively.

And as far as "Who is going to come into this thread...with casual namecalling"

Well, you did. For one.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #61)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:49 PM

69. Frankly I would rather be called an asshole rather than have someone tell me that

"You have enough rights" (I'm gay) or

"Latin America is but a cyst on the anus of the world." (I live in Ecuador)

Both of those gems from "your side"

Yeah the "haters" are just big old meanies and the "supporters" as pure and blameless as the driven snow.

You win.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:46 PM

63. You're only saying that because you hate Obama.



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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:46 PM

64. When you/we hold the President's feet to the fire, that is exactly the support the President NEEDS



. . . and the help he has specifically REQUESTED of us.


As an example, in the area of civil liberties and constitutional process, in 2008 the President expressed succinctly & sincerely the values we share:



"The reason that you have this principle is not to be soft on terrorism. It's because that's who we are. That's what we're protecting. . . Don't mock the Constitution. Don't make fun of it. Don't suggest that it's not American to abide by what the founding fathers set up. It's worked pretty well for over 200 years."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/09/obama-to-palin-dont-mock-the-c.html





And the President has also succinctly communicated what he needs us to do when, in the course of governing, we see that policies may be less than ideal in the implementation of our shared values:





"Your job is to hold my feet to the fire. . . So, you need to be out there everyday raising these issues, telling us when we’re doing the right or wrong thing. . . My role is to be President of the United States. . . "

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2011/12/01/a-foot-in-two-worlds/






The President has made abundantly clear what he NEEDS us to do to support our shared values.

(and what he needs is NOT meek assent.)




Thanks for you post.











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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:49 PM

70. Well good. I'm tired of being called an apologist, cheerleader, cutlist and centrist...

...along with every other BS name thrown my way whenever I feel the need to support the President.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:52 PM

74. Locking. This is Meta...

If you want to complain about things at DU, ATA's the place for it, not GD...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1259

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