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Wed Jul 17, 2013, 11:49 PM

"The Drone That Killed My Grandson" - Nasser al-Awlaki Op/Ed in NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opinion/the-drone-that-killed-my-grandson.html

OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
The Drone That Killed My Grandson
By NASSER al-AWLAKI
Published: July 17, 2013 2 Comments

SANA, Yemen — I LEARNED that my 16-year-old grandson, Abdulrahman — a United States citizen — had been killed by an American drone strike from news reports the morning after he died.

The missile killed him, his teenage cousin and at least five other civilians on Oct. 14, 2011, while the boys were eating dinner at an open-air restaurant in southern Yemen.

- snip -

Nearly two years later, I still have no answers. The United States government has refused to explain why Abdulrahman was killed. It was not until May of this year that the Obama administration, in a supposed effort to be more transparent, publicly acknowledged what the world already knew — that it was responsible for his death.

The attorney general, Eric H. Holder Jr., said only that Abdulrahman was not “specifically targeted,” raising more questions than he answered.

My grandson was killed by his own government. The Obama administration must answer for its actions and be held accountable. On Friday, I will petition a federal court in Washington to require the government to do just that.

- snip -

The government repeatedly made accusations of terrorism against Anwar — who was also an American citizen — but never charged him with a crime. No court ever reviewed the government’s claims nor was any evidence of criminal wrongdoing ever presented to a court. He did not deserve to be deprived of his constitutional rights as an American citizen and killed.

Early one morning in September 2011, Abdulrahman set out from our home in Sana by himself. He went to look for his father, whom he hadn’t seen for years. He left a note for his mother explaining that he missed his father and wanted to find him, and asking her to forgive him for leaving without permission.

- snip -

That was the last time I heard his voice. He was killed just two weeks after his father.

A country that believes it does not even need to answer for killing its own is not the America I once knew. From 1966 to 1977, I fulfilled a childhood dream and studied in the United States as a Fulbright scholar, earning my doctorate and then working as a researcher and assistant professor at universities in New Mexico, Nebraska and Minnesota.

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Reply "The Drone That Killed My Grandson" - Nasser al-Awlaki Op/Ed in NYT (Original post)
Hissyspit Jul 2013 OP
msanthrope Jul 2013 #1
RC Jul 2013 #2
Catherina Jul 2013 #6
kelliekat44 Jul 2013 #46
Tx4obama Jul 2013 #3
Hissyspit Jul 2013 #5
xocet Jul 2013 #24
Hissyspit Jul 2013 #31
Maedhros Jul 2013 #7
Tx4obama Jul 2013 #9
Pelican Jul 2013 #10
Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #11
xocet Jul 2013 #14
Tx4obama Jul 2013 #16
xocet Jul 2013 #27
xocet Jul 2013 #32
xocet Jul 2013 #26
LittleBlue Jul 2013 #4
geek tragedy Jul 2013 #36
LittleBlue Jul 2013 #41
geek tragedy Jul 2013 #43
LittleBlue Jul 2013 #44
geek tragedy Jul 2013 #45
LittleBlue Jul 2013 #48
Comrade Grumpy Jul 2013 #8
Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #12
Hissyspit Jul 2013 #17
Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #18
Hissyspit Jul 2013 #19
Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #20
Hissyspit Jul 2013 #21
Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #23
frylock Jul 2013 #33
leftstreet Jul 2013 #47
Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #13
pnwmom Jul 2013 #15
Tx4obama Jul 2013 #25
msanthrope Jul 2013 #42
xocet Jul 2013 #28
pnwmom Jul 2013 #29
Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #22
pnwmom Jul 2013 #30
Octafish Jul 2013 #37
pnwmom Jul 2013 #39
msanthrope Jul 2013 #40
Octafish Jul 2013 #49
AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #34
woo me with science Jul 2013 #35
whatchamacallit Jul 2013 #38

Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 11:57 PM

1. Why isn't the family filing a wrongful death suit? The suit filed by CCR is sure to be dismissed,

but a wrongful death suit would not be.

I've read the CCR suit, and it has little chance going forward, but a wrongful death would.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:00 AM

2. Maybe, just maybe, when enough people realize that people in foreign countries are human, just like

 

ourselves, with the same feelings, same love for their children and family as we, then maybe, just maybe people might refuse to fight and kill in "our leaders" declared and undeclared wars.

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Response to RC (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 02:07 AM

6. +1,000,000 n/t

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Response to RC (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:45 PM

46. I agree. If only people would put themselves in the place of those being oppressed and killed.

But privilege is as privilege does...it's so sad.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:18 AM

3. The grandfather is NOT telling the truth. The boy was in a CAR with known terrorists.


The drone's target was AlBana, he was in the car that got hit after they had left a building where an AlQaeda meeting had just taken place,
the U.S. didn't know the boy was in the car.

There is also an uncle that has put out misinformation in the past.

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #3)


Response to Hissyspit (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:44 AM

24. FYI: The article that you reference concerns Anwar al-Awlaki (the son) not Abdulrahman al-Awlaki

(the grandson). The grandson is the one who is being discussed in the NYT opinion piece.

It is 2:43 in the morning, though....

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Response to xocet (Reply #24)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 06:33 AM

31. Yeah. You're right.

I actually meant to post The Nation account you did, but my brain got lost somewhere along the way. I'm going to bed now. Vet appointment at 2:45 p.m.

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 02:41 AM

7. Is their any heinous act by the government that you won't defend? [n/t]

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 02:55 AM

9. There is a difference between defending something and not wanting to see misinformation. n/t


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Response to Maedhros (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 02:59 AM

10. There is no good reason to let facts get in the way of a good emotional rant...

 

Why bother?

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:09 AM

11. Oh good. The US doesn't know who their blowing up. That's even better.

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:16 AM

14. Which parts of the NYT opinion piece are false?

Here is an article that squares with the grandfather's statement:

Inside America's Dirty Wars
How three US citizens were killed by their own government in the space of one month in 2011.
Jeremy Scahill April 24, 2013 | This article appeared in the May 13, 2013 edition of The Nation.

...

As Abdulrahman mourned, the boy’s family members in Shabwah tried to comfort him and encouraged him to get out with his cousins. That was what Abdulrahman was doing on the evening of October 14. He and his cousins had joined a group of friends outdoors to barbecue. There were a few other people doing the same nearby. It was about 9 pm when the drones pierced the night sky. Moments later, Abdulrahman was dead. So, too, were several other teenage members of his family, including Abdulrahman’s 17-year-old cousin Ahmed.

Early the next morning, Nasser al-Awlaki received a phone call from his family in Shabwah. “Some of our relatives went to the place where was killed, and they saw the area…. And they told us he was buried with the others in one grave because they were blown up to pieces by the drone. So they could not put them in separate graves,” Nasser told me.

With the horror setting in that their eldest grandson had been killed just two weeks after their eldest child, Nasser and Saleha watched in disbelief as numerous news reports identified Abdulrahman as being 21 years old, with anonymous US officials referring to him as a “military-aged” male. Some reports intimated that he was an Al Qaeda supporter and that he had been killed while meeting with Ibrahim al-Banna, an Egyptian citizen described as the “media coordinator” for AQAP.

...

http://www.thenation.com/article/173980/inside-americas-dirty-wars?page=full#


Also, who is the uncle who "has put out misinformation in the past" and what was the misinformation?

Lastly, how do you know what you are saying is true? Do you have citations for the sources?

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Response to xocet (Reply #14)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:28 AM

16. There are lots of things not correct

See Comment #5 on this thread.
That article says 'stopped for BREAKFAST' - your excerpt says 'evening barbeque'
Report I've read said the vehicle was leaving a building where alQaeda had just finished a meeting.

The family says the kid was with friends - so his friends are Senior terrorists?

The vehicle the kid was in was the vehicle that Al-Bana was in - that is the vehicle the drone struck.
The target was Al-Banna http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_al-Banna

----
Two U.S. officials speaking on condition of anonymity stated that the target of the October 14, 2011 airstrike was Ibrahim al-Banna, an Egyptian believed to be a senior operative in Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. Another U.S. administration official described Abdulrahman al-Aulaqi as a bystander who was "in the wrong place at the wrong time", stating that "the U.S. government did not know that Mr. Awlaki’s son was there" before the airstrike was ordered


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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #16)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:06 AM

27. Comment #5 does not discuss the death of the grandson....

The following articles square with the NYT opinion piece, and it seems unclear that Ibrahim al-Banna was actually killed. So, is there more that you have found wrong in the NYT opinion piece?

I'll append my other questions, too:

Who is the uncle who "has put out misinformation in the past," and what was the misinformation?

Lastly, how do you know what you are saying is true? Do you have citations for the sources?


The Drone That Killed My Grandson
By NASSER al-AWLAKI
Published: July 17, 2013

...

The missile killed him, his teenage cousin and at least five other civilians on Oct. 14, 2011, while the boys were eating dinner at an open-air restaurant in southern Yemen.

...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opinion/the-drone-that-killed-my-grandson.html


Inside America's Dirty Wars
How three US citizens were killed by their own government in the space of one month in 2011.
Jeremy Scahill April 24, 2013 | This article appeared in the May 13, 2013 edition of The Nation.

...

As Abdulrahman mourned, the boy’s family members in Shabwah tried to comfort him and encouraged him to get out with his cousins. That was what Abdulrahman was doing on the evening of October 14. He and his cousins had joined a group of friends outdoors to barbecue. There were a few other people doing the same nearby. It was about 9 pm when the drones pierced the night sky. Moments later, Abdulrahman was dead. So, too, were several other teenage members of his family, including Abdulrahman’s 17-year-old cousin Ahmed.

...

http://www.thenation.com/article/173980/inside-americas-dirty-wars#ixzz2ZNe1TnlQ


The Lethal Presidency of Barack Obama
by Tom Junod - Esquire

...

On that night, though, they were all celebrating Abdulrahman's last night in his ancestral village near the Arabian Sea. He had been waiting for Yemen's political unrest to die down before heading home. Now the way seemed clear, the roads less perilous, and he was saying goodbye to the friends he'd made. There were six or seven of them, along with a seventeen-year-old cousin. It was a night lit by a bright moon, and they were sitting around a fire. They were cooking and eating. It was initially reported that an Al Qaeda leader named Ibrahim al-Banna was among those killed, but then it was reported that al-Banna is still alive to this day. It was also reported that Abdulrahman al-Awlaki was a twenty-one-year-old militant, until his grandfather released his birth certificate. There is the fog of war, and then there is the deeper fog of the Lethal Presidency. What is certain is only this: that a drone crossed the moonlit sky, and when the sun rose the next morning, the relatives of Abdulrahman al-Awlaki gathered his remains — along with those of his cousin and some teenaged boys — so that they could give a Muslim funeral to an American boy.

...

http://www.esquire.com/features/obama-lethal-presidency-0812-5


How a U.S. Citizen Came to Be in America’s Cross Hairs
By MARK MAZZETTI, CHARLIE SAVAGE and SCOTT SHANE
Published: March 9, 2013

...

Then, on Oct. 14, a missile apparently intended for an Egyptian Qaeda operative, Ibrahim al-Banna, hit a modest outdoor eating place in Shabwa. The intelligence was bad: Mr. Banna was not there, and among about a dozen men killed was the young Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, who had no connection to terrorism and would never have been deliberately targeted.

It was a tragic error and, for the Obama administration, a public relations disaster, further muddying the moral clarity of the previous strike on his father and fueling skepticism about American assertions of drones’ surgical precision. The damage was only compounded when anonymous officials at first gave the younger Mr. Awlaki’s age as 21, prompting his grieving family to make public his birth certificate.

He had been born in Denver, said the certificate from the Colorado health department. In the United States, at the time his government’s missile killed him, the teenager would have just reached driving age.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/world/middleeast/anwar-al-awlaki-a-us-citizen-in-americas-cross-hairs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #16)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:19 AM

32. It seems that you did not read the articles too closely, so it is very hard to defend your position.

Hence, your silence.

I hope that you are reconsidering what you have claimed.

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Response to xocet (Reply #14)


Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:20 AM

4. K&R

For the hope that one day, the murderers of children will at least face trial.


Will never happe though.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:05 PM

36. To which 'murderers' are you referring here? nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #36)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:45 PM

41. The men who murder with red buttons

and remote cameras.

Their crimes are no less just because they shrugged their shoulders and say "whoops, collateral damage"

Or the men who command them.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #41)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:47 PM

43. So, do you think Obama should be impeached or just extradited to the Hague?

His order to have Al Awlaki killed.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #43)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:34 PM

44. If I'm honest

There should be an investigation into what he knew and when.

Even though I know it won't happen. We had an obvious war criminal (Bush) and nothing will happen to him.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #44)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:35 PM

45. He personally approved the strike on Anwar al Awlaki.

Or are you taking the position that every time a civilian dies as a result of something the US government/armed forces do, that the President faces criminal liability if he approved that action?

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #45)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:55 PM

48. When a child dies

There should be an investigation into every death to determine to what extent negligence caused the death, and if criminal charges should apply.

Our military and civilian leaders can basically kill without oversight, as long as the dead person is a brown kid from a village far away. It's sickening. This case only garners more attention because the child in question was a US citizen.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 02:50 AM

8. What should I be outraged over tonight: This or a Rolling Stone cover? Hmmm...

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:11 AM

12. liar, liar, grandson's pants on fire!

 

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:33 AM

17. Wow.

That's some fucked-up shit.

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:35 AM

18. you're welcome

 

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:35 AM

19. Didn't thank you.

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:37 AM

20. now I see how you got 40K posts

 

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #20)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:38 AM

21. Since 2004?

That's not many.

And what the fuck does that have to do with your creepy shit?

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #21)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:42 AM

23. it wasn't creepy. it was a riff off the fact that the guy is lying in his editorial

 

but rather than his own pants on being on fire for said untruthfulness, his grandson's are on fire ex post facto

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:52 PM

33. perhaps you can take the time to outline those lies?

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:47 PM

47. What are the lies?

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:14 AM

13. knr

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:17 AM

15. Abdulrahman's father was part of al Queda, and al Queda has killed children in its attacks.

Last edited Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:48 AM - Edit history (1)

But Abdulrahman was not killed on purpose.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/world/middleeast/anwar-al-awlaki-a-us-citizen-in-americas-cross-hairs.html?pagewanted=all

"Then, on Oct. 14, a missile apparently intended for an Egyptian Qaeda operative, Ibrahim al-Banna, hit a modest outdoor eating place in Shabwa. The intelligence was bad: Mr. Banna was not there, and among about a dozen men killed was the young Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, who had no connection to terrorism and would never have been deliberately targeted."

OTOH, eight children were on the planes that were deliberately flown into the WTC.

It's always tragic when children are killed in the conflicts of adults, but al-Awaki put his son in danger when he involved him with other terrorists.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:51 AM

25. Yes, and Anwar al-Awlaki believed children should be raised 'on the love of Jihad'



Anwar al-Awlaki

In "44 Ways to Support Jihad," another sermon posted on his blog in February 2009, al-Awlaki encouraged others to "fight jihad", and explained how to give money to the mujahideen or their families after they've died. Al-Awlaki's sermon also encouraged others to conduct weapons training, and raise children "on the love of Jihad."
Also that month, he wrote: "I pray that Allah destroys America and all its allies." He wrote as well: "We will implement the rule of Allah on Earth by the tip of the sword, whether the masses like it or not." On July 14, he criticized armies of Muslim countries that assist the U.S. military, saying, "the blame should be placed on the soldier who is willing to follow orders ... who sells his religion for a few dollars."In a sermon on his blog on July 15, 2009, entitled "Fighting Against Government Armies in the Muslim World," al-Awlaki wrote, "Blessed are those who fight against American soldiers, and blessed are those shuhada (martyrs) who are killed by them."



Did everyone catch that? " ... raise children "on the love of Jihad."

Anwar and his son can not be compared to a average American father and son - the 'teenager' was the SON of one of the 'Most Wanted members of Al Qaeda'.

al-Awlaki's son had lived in Yemen since 2002 - he was not raised like an American, The son was raised 'on the love of Jihad'.

There have been children as young as six years old that have been trained by members of Al Qaeda - not saying that Anwar's son was but I'd be shocked if he wasn't consider what he dad believed.




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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #25)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:45 PM

42. In post# 1, I asked why had the family filed such a lawsuit--as opposed to a wrongful death action.

I mean, if one really wants to get to the truth of what happened, why wouldn't one file a lawsuit that has a chance of success?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:12 AM

28. So, you would hold the USA to the same standard as al-Qaeda? That is just brilliant!



From your post:
"OTOH, eight children were on the planes that were deliberately flown into the WTC.

It's always tragic when children are killed in the conflicts of adults, but al-Awaki put his son in danger when he involved him with other terrorists."

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Response to xocet (Reply #28)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:17 AM

29. No, as I said, we didn't kill the son deliberately.

He was sitting in a group of adults that were targeted as terrorists associated with alQueda.

Bin Laden and alQueda, on the other hand, deliberately arranged to kill several thousand people, all of whom were non-combatants, including children, in a single attack. I do NOT support our country ever doing something like that.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:39 AM

22. Jeremy Scahill: Killing Anwar al-Awlaki

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #22)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:22 AM

30. Holder's letter explaining why al-Awlaki was legally targeted:

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #30)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:15 PM

37. Sure. A letter trumps the Constitution and it was an accident, anyway.

So, because the letter describes the President can target Americans if they're deemed enemy combatants, these really aren't Gangster Times where the guy at the top of the pyramid plays king with all the powers in the realm at his disposal and "accidentally" kills a 16 year old boy. Riiiight.

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/05/23/2052351/johnson-drones-abdulrahman/

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Response to Octafish (Reply #37)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:38 PM

39. The letter doesn't trump the Constitution.

The letter explains why it's their view that the actions were constitutional.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #37)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:42 PM

40. Yes. The President can target Americans if they are deemed enemy combatants, and they are non-

custodial.

Awlaki, Sr. was definitely targeted. Jr. was not, but died during an attempt on al-Banna. I hope the family files a wrongful death suit on the child.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #40)

Sat Jul 20, 2013, 12:09 AM

49. Does that include journalists?

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:55 PM

34. Reminds me of the Tsaernaev family. nt

 

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:03 PM

35. K&R No words for this.



No words for what America has become under these corporate monsters.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

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