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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:05 PM

I'm stunned. I'm speechless. My last shred of respect for the law is all-but-gone.

What THIS means is that I can pick a fight with anyone I want, and if they defend themselves, I can shoot them in the heart.

137 replies, 11658 views

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Reply I'm stunned. I'm speechless. My last shred of respect for the law is all-but-gone. (Original post)
Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 OP
Dwayne Hicks Jul 2013 #1
rurallib Jul 2013 #2
WinkyDink Jul 2013 #3
Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #51
WinkyDink Jul 2013 #74
tavalon Jul 2013 #78
awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #135
Just Saying Jul 2013 #4
roody Jul 2013 #5
xtraxritical Jul 2013 #84
meanit Jul 2013 #85
heaven05 Jul 2013 #88
roody Jul 2013 #101
hifiguy Jul 2013 #102
Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #6
avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #86
NOLALady Jul 2013 #7
Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #8
valerief Jul 2013 #9
BlueStreak Jul 2013 #10
X_Digger Jul 2013 #16
BlueStreak Jul 2013 #24
galileoreloaded Jul 2013 #61
BlueStreak Jul 2013 #62
galileoreloaded Jul 2013 #68
BlueStreak Jul 2013 #76
X_Digger Jul 2013 #82
X_Digger Jul 2013 #69
BlueStreak Jul 2013 #73
X_Digger Jul 2013 #80
Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #58
X_Digger Jul 2013 #64
George II Jul 2013 #97
BlueStreak Jul 2013 #117
MNBrewer Jul 2013 #115
RainDog Jul 2013 #11
avebury Jul 2013 #12
gopiscrap Jul 2013 #13
BlueStreak Jul 2013 #26
gopiscrap Jul 2013 #29
BlueStreak Jul 2013 #34
hifiguy Jul 2013 #104
BlueStreak Jul 2013 #113
socialist_n_TN Jul 2013 #126
BlueStreak Jul 2013 #127
socialist_n_TN Jul 2013 #134
steve2470 Jul 2013 #14
treestar Jul 2013 #15
Manifestor_of_Light Jul 2013 #17
krawhitham Jul 2013 #18
kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #19
quinnox Jul 2013 #20
AlbertCat Jul 2013 #81
hifiguy Jul 2013 #105
TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #128
Chakab Jul 2013 #106
AlbertCat Jul 2013 #136
allin99 Jul 2013 #98
Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #21
BlueStreak Jul 2013 #38
Igel Jul 2013 #40
nebenaube Jul 2013 #96
Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #121
nebenaube Jul 2013 #125
DCBob Jul 2013 #22
bobduca Jul 2013 #66
ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #23
Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #28
ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #31
Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #32
ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #35
Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #39
ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #43
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #45
ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #47
NealK Jul 2013 #63
BlueStreak Jul 2013 #41
ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #44
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #48
ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #49
BlueStreak Jul 2013 #53
ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2013 #46
Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #57
liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #92
Kennah Jul 2013 #25
dickthegrouch Jul 2013 #27
tom_kelly Jul 2013 #30
KharmaTrain Jul 2013 #33
Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #37
KharmaTrain Jul 2013 #42
Name removed Jul 2013 #72
tblue Jul 2013 #107
baldguy Jul 2013 #36
Bake Jul 2013 #50
zeemike Jul 2013 #52
Conium Jul 2013 #54
Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #60
PatrynXX Jul 2013 #55
Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #56
NealK Jul 2013 #65
treestar Jul 2013 #77
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #59
Apophis Jul 2013 #67
craigmatic Jul 2013 #70
ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #71
Rex Jul 2013 #79
Bettie Jul 2013 #75
mstinamotorcity2 Jul 2013 #83
heaven05 Jul 2013 #87
Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #89
blkmusclmachine Jul 2013 #90
SHRED Jul 2013 #91
valerief Jul 2013 #93
lastlib Jul 2013 #94
BlueinOhio Jul 2013 #95
Leontius Jul 2013 #99
Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #100
tblue Jul 2013 #103
jwirr Jul 2013 #108
classof56 Jul 2013 #109
LiberalLovinLug Jul 2013 #110
Agschmid Jul 2013 #111
JI7 Jul 2013 #112
cali Jul 2013 #114
DLevine Jul 2013 #116
myrna minx Jul 2013 #118
Jawja Jul 2013 #119
Whisp Jul 2013 #120
roamer65 Jul 2013 #122
marshall Jul 2013 #123
hobbit709 Jul 2013 #124
Enthusiast Jul 2013 #129
Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #130
Enthusiast Jul 2013 #132
Blue_Tires Jul 2013 #131
Gregorian Jul 2013 #133
liberalhistorian Jul 2013 #137

Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:06 PM

1. Yes

That is what this exactly means.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:06 PM

2. yep

legalized murder.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:07 PM

3. Heck, I'm making a list as we speak!

JUST KIDDING, AGENT BOB.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:45 PM

51. Agent Bob? OMG--

Did something happen to Agent Mike?

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #51)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:18 PM

74. Hee---I knew I goofed!

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #51)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:21 PM

78. No, we now rate two agents

Bigger place, ya know?

On a more serious note, this is yet another travesty of "justice"

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #51)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:56 PM

135. Someone stood their ground

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:07 PM

4. In Florida

Yes.

Have at it! Apparently it's a free for all!

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:08 PM

5. Only if you are white and they are not.

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Response to roody (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:29 PM

84. Is Zimmerman white? I don't think so.

 

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #84)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:31 PM

85. Zimmy ain't black, either.

n/t

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #84)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:33 PM

88. white

enough.

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #84)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:34 AM

101. Zim appears caucasian.

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Response to roody (Reply #101)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:36 AM

102. Yep. He may be technically part Hispanic

but he looks as white as I do.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:11 PM

6. That's the problem: the law didn't ensure justice in this case.

The jury probably made the only decision they could have, given Florida law on self-defense. The problem is that law doesn't levy responsibility for the outcome of a confrontation on the person that initiated it.

And that ain't justice...

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #6)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:32 PM

86. That is the only logical answer I can come up with. nIt seems like that law on self-defense is

what skewed the verdict in Zimmerman's favor.

I am really shocked. This doesn't feel like justice.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:12 PM

7. Unfortunately, I'm not surprised.

Murderers were routinely acquitted during the 60s by a jury of their peers.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:12 PM

8. Katie, bar the door.

Holy shit.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:13 PM

9. You can kill them at night in Texas if you say they're stealing something from you. nt

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:13 PM

10. Jurors acted 100% in line with the law. That is the problem. The law is a bad law.

Any other verdict would have been "jury nullification". I wish they would have nullified in this case.

But the irony is that the trial system worked. The result was 100% in line with the law. The problem is not "the system". The problem is the ALEC law.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:15 PM

16. This is straight self-defense law.

The defense relied on black-letter self-defense law, as it appears in one form or another, in all 50 states.

No 'stand your ground', no 'castle doctrine', etc.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #16)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:24 PM

24. I don't believe that is correct.

The defense atty in his closing arguments, while possibly not mentioning "stand your ground" by that name (I didn't listen to every word) talked in detail about how the circumstances leading up to the confrontation were irrelevant. That is straight out of SYG, and therefore the judge permitted it as part of the closing argument.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #24)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:59 PM

61. The circumstances leading to the confrontation ARE irrelevant

 

there is a fine line with intent. Otherwise.... Oh never mind.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Reply #61)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:07 PM

62. In states without the SYG law, you cannot CREATE the confrontation and then

claim self-defense. At least that maneuver is not enshrined in law. In SYG states, the law explicitly says that it doesn't matter how you got to to the point where you felt you were threatened. Moreover, the ALEC SYG law says you just have to feel threatened. You don't actually have to be an inch away from losing your life to use the self-defense defense.

The issue is the law. It is not "the system" or "justice". Justice was carried out in accordance with the law. We need to change these laws.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #62)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:13 PM

68. Err, that's like blaming a rape victim for getting drunk or wearing revealing clothes

 

And isn't really true. The escalation of force is judged on its merits, not preceding circumstances. Otherwise we would be having trials that started with what we ate for breakfast. It isn't a self defense case until it escalates, then it's parsed.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Reply #68)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:19 PM

76. Don't blame me. Blame ALEC.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #62)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:27 PM

82. Creating the confrontation and self-defense has nothing to do with SYG

Being the aggressor and later being able to claim self-defense- that's nothing to do with SYG.

The classic example of this is two guys in a bar..

One taps the other on the shoulder and says, "My pecker's bigger'n yours, wanna fight about it?" They stumble outside to engage in 'fisticuffs' and the first guy starts to get his ass kicked. He throws his hands up and says, "Fine, yours is bigger'n mine! I give up!"

The second guy continues to pound on the purported-pecker-fight-picker, making him (or a reasonable person in that situation) think that he's going to be killed or grievously wounded. After having tried to get away and being unable to do so, or having clearly communicated his intent to disengage, he would be justified in using deadly force in response.

That relies on a law from 1974- http://law.onecle.com/florida/crimes/776.041.html



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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #24)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:14 PM

69. The laws the defense used, and the jury instructions..

.. didn't depend on, cite, or reference 'stand your ground'.

The jury instructions for a case relying on SYG are not the same. The defense may have alluded to it in closing arguments, but the judge never ruled on the admissibility of such a defense because the defense never asserted it. There would have been a couple more hearings, had that been so.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #69)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:18 PM

73. Perhaps, but the result is the same either way

Because of SYG, the prosecution could not make the argument that Zimmerman created that confrontation and therefore must pay the consequences. They did their best to hint at it without actually saying that.

Florida is a SYG state, and that comes into play whether or not there is a specific SYG hearing.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #73)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:21 PM

80. No, the prosecution was free to make that claim.

The law used was from 1974.

There's no way to claim 'Because of SYG' if it wasn't used or cited.

Perhaps the defense knew how shaky such a claim would be, so they relied on standard self-defense (TM "ambushed" GZ and had him on the ground-- bullshit though that sounds, it's a classic self-defense claim.)

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #16)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:57 PM

58. Being from Houston, Texas, you sure act like you have a lot invested in this case.

You said you lived in Houston, Texas in your profile on DU2.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #58)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:09 PM

64. Not Houston, DFW (Austin til 2002)

My profile at DU2 is still up, feel free to check.

I don't have anything 'invested' in this case, but I do keep abreast of self-defense law.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:14 AM

97. Is it "self defense" when you pick a fight, and when the other guy hits back, you shoot him?

Too bad Trayvon Martin isn't around to claim self defense, which was TRUE self defense!

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Response to George II (Reply #97)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 08:51 AM

117. It is in Florida and a bunch of other states

There are tedious arguments elsewhere on this thread that this wasn't technically a SYG case because that would have required extra forms and hearings. That completely misses the point. the ALEC / NRA laws have created the climate where it is considered normal and righteous to do what Zimmerman did.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #10)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 08:48 AM

115. ALEC and the Republican Party

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:13 PM

11. It's disgusting

I have also lost pretty much all respect for the law over the last few decades. This is one more horrible example.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:14 PM

12. Agreed! nt

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:14 PM

13. I agree I never had any respect for the law

it's always been the one with the most power and money wins. I have never had any respect for any judge, prosecutor, clop or probation officer...they are all arrogant fucking tools of the monied

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #13)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:25 PM

26. That is silly talk.

Zimmerman has no power or money. The villain here is ALEC. The system worked. The jurors reached the only verdict they could given the evidence and the law. The problem is the law.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #26)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:27 PM

29. ALEC maybe the problem

but the rich and monied used Zimmerman as a pawn

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #29)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:34 PM

34. They don't care about Martin one way or another. They do care about fomenting conflicts among

the lower classes, and the gun thing makes a great wedge issue -- i.e. a way to distract the masses while they are stealing our wealth.

I would agree there is that much of a connection. I would not agree that they are particularly in favor of seeing America's youth gunned down in cold blood. But that does make a very good distraction.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #34)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:39 AM

104. The 1% is more than happy to see the herd

thinned without their doing anything active. Direct action to cull the populace via poverty and starvation will come with the next Repuke administration.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #104)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 08:43 AM

113. You think they did this to kill Dem voters one at a time?

The 1% doesn't give a shit about Martin or any other teenage black kid. If they did, they would work with us to get the unemployment rate down below 15%

What the 1% loves is any shiny object that will distract the public from their organized crime. For 1 month this site has been essentially non-functional with the majority of threads going over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over every little thing about the Zimmerman case. And in the end, nobody had a clue.

What a waste of time. THIS is exactly what the 1% wants. Look over there. A Kardashian has her clothes off. Look over there. The President is using the IRS for political gains. Look over there. A black kid got killed.

How many young black kids have been gunned down in our cities' streets just in the time this trial was underway, but not one word about them. No, they weren't a shiny enough object to hold our attention.

Please give us the DU website back. There really are other important things in the world.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #26)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 10:37 AM

126. And who do you think funds ALEC?...

It doesn't matter that Zimmerman has no money (even though his Diddy WAS a judge-that makes him part of the political support structure for the bourgeoisie), what matters is that he USED the ALEC law enacted by the toadies OF the bourgeoisie, to get away with murdering a black kid.

It's ALL interconnected.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #126)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 10:44 AM

127. They don't do this to kill one potential Dem voter at a time

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #127)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:26 PM

134. Sets a pretty good precedent though for mass action....

Those nasty organizers of the working class "threaten" the lives of the proto-fascists and, so, can be shot in self defense.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:15 PM

14. I'm really sad about this

Granted, I was not in the jury box but I still think justice was not served. Zimmerman walks a free man after murdering an innocent black kid.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:15 PM

15. It's not perfect and this is Florida

There's no reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:16 PM

17. Fucking vigilante cop wannabe.

GZ PURSUED TM and was told NOT to. He could have waited for the cops but he didn't. Made himself judge, jury and executioner.

I have no respect left for the legal system, for several reasons.

I was a court reporter for twenty years, was a legal secretary before that, and also have a Juris Doctor (law degree).



The Federal civil rights violation/hate crime case is yet to come.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:17 PM

18. Only in certain States

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:18 PM

19. That is exactly what it means - in FL at least.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:18 PM

20. Welcome to justice in America, white guy gets away with it

 

A racist jury allows him to go free. If Zimmerman had been a black dude, and Martin a white kid, Zimmerman would have been convicted and facing the death penalty or life in prison.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #20)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:26 PM

81. white guy gets away with it

OJ wasn't white.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #81)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:42 AM

105. He was, however, wealthy and famous and thus powerful.

And that case was never the slam-dunk the media said it was. Dr. Henry Lee cut the prosecution's ludicrously sloppy forensics to ribbons, and the timeline was never solidly established. It was a winnable case, even with OJ's resources and great lawyers, that was lost by the prosecutors and the crime lab people.

He's in the Crowbar Hilton for a long time anyway.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #105)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:03 AM

128. My sister is an evidence tech, she has always maintained that there would have been a bloody

house cleaning in her unit if they dropped the ball like was done in the OJ Simpson case and I put that at automatic reasonable doubt. Once the evidence is tainted, screwed up, shit is planted, and the custody chain is dicey that shouldn't be something a prosecution should EVER be able to overcome.

To dismiss such things is an open invitation for a rouge state powered by dirty cops and amoral DA's hell bent on getting their convictions up.

Our system convicts too often is the greater concern that not enough. Far too often the reasonable doubt bar is lowered all the way down to the state presenting something between a plausible story and the most plausible, either of which should be well shy of beyond a reasonable doubt. In fact too many have been exonerated and in hindsight the convictions would seem to be nearly baseless to highly circumstantial and should not have ever reached a guilty verdict under anything like an honest definition of beyond reasonable. There are often plenty of reasons for reasonable doubt but juries are weighted to the prosecution and defendants seldom can match resources with the state and instead have an overloaded PD that has tens of dollars to work with.

The burden is all supposed to be on the state, that means there are errors the state cannot ever be caught in and maintain a case. When it goes beyond errors to actively tainting the evidence, a judge should just dismiss the case as not guilty and call it a day. There should be no reason to deliberate, the state has officially and utterly screwed the pooch.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #81)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:44 AM

106. No, but he had millions

to blow on a bunch of high-profile lawyers.

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Response to Chakab (Reply #106)

Mon Jul 15, 2013, 10:58 PM

136. No, but he had millions

Not to mention he was a big sports star.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:20 PM

21. It's surprising, but it means they found that GZ was in fear of bodily harm.

This jury seems to have taken their time and went through the evidence.

Everyone had their day in court.

Many posters will be angry and upset. But many of them also just refused to see the evidence objectively. They were too emotionally invested in the case.

This jury saw and read ALL the evidence. No one in this forum has done that. I respect the verdict. Not sure that would've been my verdict, but as I've said, I would have to sit in a jury room and deliberate the evidence with other jurors.

I said that too much was being made of the jurors being mothers and being sympathetic to TM.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #21)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:38 PM

38. It is time for those who are heavily invested emotionally to give it a rest

There are many injustices in our society. The whole area of gun violence -- our celebration of violence in general -- is one of those injustices. But it is not the only one. I encourage everyone to step away from the brink and try to come back when the bigger picture is easier to see.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #21)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:38 PM

40. Yeah. I thought manslaughter.

Not on evidence, but on a desire for some sort of punishment or retribution.

One could argue not self-defense but "depraved mind" to get him off 2nd murder. They went "self defense."

And what's left is personal vs. process, history vs individual.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #21)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:04 AM

96. Sorry, I looked at the evidence objectively.

 

Zimmerman is guilty. It was not a difficult case to make either. Had I been on the jury that is how I would have voted.

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Response to nebenaube (Reply #96)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 09:55 AM

121. Reasonable people can disagree. I believe the jurors seriously considered manslaughter, but

came down to not guilty. It was a very narrow question they had to decide. It didn't involve "should GZ have gotten out of his car." That's what people don't understand, I believe.

The question: When GZ was on bottom, being beaten up by TM (albeit not a strong "beating"), was it reasonable for GZ to fear great bodily harm?

I'm not sure I would've said he did have reason to fear that. But I might have, in deliberations with others who were looking at the same evidence as I was.

I'm not sure a gun was his only recourse. But then...what else could he have done? I'd prefer to hash this out in a room with other jurors.

Then, finally, there's the "walk away" thing. That GZ started this whole thing by acting unreasonably (not illegally, though) matters to me. But legally, it does not matter. If someone irritates you, that does not give you a legal right to beat the crap out of 'em. That's the law. But morally, should GZ walk away?

I would have preferred a lesser charge, where I'd be sure he got less than 10 years in prison. Or probation. Some punishment, but I don't think 30 years was warranted...he really was in a pickle at that moment.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #121)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 10:20 AM

125. No it is not reasonable...

 

GZ had no fear at all or he would have fled. Instead, he fought, the moment he started fighting, all 'fear' had been channeled into a fight response. 'Fear' under that circumstance is physiologically impossible.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:20 PM

22. Yes, thats exactly what it means and the gun loving f'kers cheer.

Its a sad day for our justice system.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #22)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:12 PM

66. an example of "gun loving f'kers cheering:"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3247998

We disagreed this week on NSA/Snowden stuff but I'm sure we can find common cause here.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:21 PM

23. get your riot on...

it's what you said you would gladly do. also, remember, you're rioting against the concept of a jury trial when you're out there. you're not rioting against the gov't (they arrested and tried him)... you're not even rioting against Zimmerman. you're rioting against the only thing that prevents the gov't from giving you NO DEFENSE at all...

go ahead... hope you don't get killed. i hope you don't kill anyone or destroy their livelihood... and if you do... i hope you get a jury trial even though you have lost all respect for our system of jurisprudence.

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #23)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:26 PM

28. I will not blame ANYONE for protesting this verdict.

Oh... it's YOU!

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #28)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:31 PM

31. ah, your fucking stupid laughter again...

it's all you have you raging hypocrite. the laughter is all coming your way... you look the fool... as usual.

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #31)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:32 PM

32. Nope, I'm in a large majority tonight, stunned and disgusted by the verdict...

You, attacking me during this, are the fool.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #32)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:35 PM

35. ah yes... the majority is always right...

i hope you are never on the losing end of that deal...

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #35)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:38 PM

39. Wow...

You're actually creepy tonight.

Go away.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #39)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:40 PM

43. nah... you're too much fun in your misery

the majority is always right? is that really what you meant to say? talk about wow...

you know, I will let you have the last word... because it won't matter. once again, i hope you are never on the losing side of 'majority is always right'...

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #43)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:42 PM

45. .

Creepy. Pursuing an argument a week after. And you won't go away after I asked you to.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #45)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:43 PM

47. hahahaha....

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #47)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:07 PM

63. You're clearly an idiot.

I feel sorry for you.

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #35)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:39 PM

41. "Majority is right" is another way of saying "mob rule"

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #41)


Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #44)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:43 PM

48. .

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #48)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:43 PM

49. you...

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #44)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:47 PM

53. What we should be protesting is these ALEC laws that promote gun violence

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #32)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:42 PM

46. oh, and I am not attacking you

just your idiocy in asserting the other night that rioting was the correct response to this verdict...

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #31)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:52 PM

57. You may want to take a break

I wasn't even first, bu t like your hero, Zimmy, you skated.


At Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:50 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

ah, your fucking stupid laughter again...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3248066

The reason for the alert was:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

You added the following comments:

Enough, please. Personal attacks. Thank you, jury. -- RtL

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this post at Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:40 PM, and voted 3-3 to keep it.

Thank you.

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #31)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:45 PM

92. people like you are the reason the ignore button was invented.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:25 PM

25. Only in Florida, and only if it's a black kid

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:26 PM

27. There is no justice system any longer

The 4th amendment has been utterly demolished.
Bankers are still free as birds.
Bush and Cheney are still free as birds.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:28 PM

30. Is this lady

trying out for a drama part? Geez

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:33 PM

33. Trial By Affirmation Media...

...it was real apparent in this case. If you thought Zimmerman was innocent you gravitated towards Faux while if you thought he should be convicted, MSNBC was saying what you wanted to hear. It's far removed than what goes on inside that court and especially in that jury room. While you got hours of "anal-isis" from people who agreed with you and showed similar outrage, that wasn't the case among the jurors...especially when it came to deciding beyond reasonable doubt when you had a prosecution team that kept asking questions rather than building their own definitive narrative. In the end the jury acted on the letter of the law...not the emotions of teevee lawyers...and that's how they arrived at this verdict.

I don't agree with it...but it's more along the lines of how "self-defense" is defined in the law and while Martin' murder was horrendous, unfortunately this jury found the evidence lacking to convict. I'm hoping for a civil trial where the bar is lower and Zimmerman's profiling could be brought into the case...

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Response to KharmaTrain (Reply #33)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:37 PM

37. The criminal/civil trial aspect reminds me of...

...the OJ thing. He was sued into bankruptcy - probably why he had to try to pull off the armed robbery.

There might be justice out there somewhere.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #37)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:39 PM

42. A Different Standard...

...in a civil case. I would hope the Martin family will sue for wrongful death...similar to how the Brown family went after O.J. If for just their own peace of mind...and to keep Zimmerman from writing a book and profiting from this ordeal.

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Response to KharmaTrain (Reply #42)


Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #37)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:46 AM

107. He will not live a happy life.

Nope. He's celebrating now but the ghost of Trayvon will haunt him forever. His life is cursed. He'll do time eventually, or something.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:35 PM

36. This happens when RWers, conservatives, Teabaggers, libertarians & religious extremists are in power

And why we have to fight them at every turn, at every level.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:44 PM

50. No, it doesn't mean that at all

It means six Florida jurors couldn't unanimously vote to convict in a case with some seriously manufactured "reasonable doubt."

You can't draw generalizations about the whole legal system from one case.

Bake

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:45 PM

52. Really I can't believe it.

I thought maybe manslaughter might be the cop out verdict....but not guilty?

Fuck it....I think I have gone to sleep and have woken up in some other world...
We really are fucked.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:50 PM

54. Zimmerman will never be a free man.

He will be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life. His sleazy lawyer got him acquitted by putting the victim on trial. Karma will catch up with George Zimmerman wherever he goes.

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Response to Conium (Reply #54)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:57 PM

60. Welcome to DU

Oh, and one can only hope that this man never has another night's sound sleep during his natural life.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:52 PM

55. think I lost it on OJ

this was like a rigged jury. almost expect Al Capone to jump out

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:52 PM

56. It's been open season on Blacks in this country for over 200 years.

I'm not surprised one bit.

This case could have happened in Minnesota, Idaho, Nevada, or any of 2 dozen other states and wound up with the same result -- 1 dead black kid, 1 broken black family, and no one going to jail for it.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #56)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:10 PM

65. Agreed.

It's been the equivalent of a lynching.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #56)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:20 PM

77. True enough

And you'd think this case might have been the one to break that trend. Zimmerman was so obviously a profiling cop wanna be.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:57 PM

59. At least in Florida.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:12 PM

67. The American justice system is heavily stacked against African-Americans.

 

If someone kills a black man, they'll always get off. If a black man kills a white man, the black man will go to prison or be sent to the chair.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:14 PM

70. I was preparing myself for this from the beginning. It hurts but not as much as it could've. To me

it feels like black people have been losing alot lately.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:16 PM

71. Law is simply a rhetorical construct.

It never really deserved your respect.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #71)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:21 PM

79. Probably comes from the unnatural saturation

rate of cop movies, shows, episodes etc that covers cable TV. Kinda like how COPS is the number one show ever made. People feel strange when their natural concepts of order are given contradictory stimuli. Killing someone is usually a crime. Most of the time.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:18 PM

75. Murder is now legal in Florida

All you have to do is say "I was skeered" and you can kill anyone you please.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:28 PM

83. No what this means is

Children of Color have never, will never, can never be safe in America!!!NEVER!!!!!!

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:32 PM

87. I'm

out. I need to sleep before I explode. What a travesty in florida..The cops, judge, defense, prosecution. SHAM JUSTICE!!!!!!!! All the zimpig apologists/logicists are popping those champagne corks.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #87)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:34 PM

89. That is so how I feel. Drained.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:37 PM

90. "Stand Your Ground."




Get the HELL out of FL!

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:41 PM

91. Only if you are white and the victim is black

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:48 PM

93. Only if you're white and they're black. This is America, home of racist Jesus-loving women haters.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:54 PM

94. "Load 'em up boys, and pack extra bullets--We're goin' black-boy huntin'!"

That's pretty much the message.

. . . . . . . . . . .

I mourn for America.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:02 AM

95. Time for a boycott

Florida is acting irresponsibly so take action. I canceled a vacation to Disney over this. I will not take my family there as long as this is going to be allowed. What's next, a robber shooting his victim and getting by with it all he has to say is that he was defending himself. Cut out spending money there. Write to Disney and the others demanding a change or they will not get thin dime. This is a hugh disappointment, this country has taken a giant step back in the wrong direction.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:16 AM

99. Go ahead try it then get back to us if you can.

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Response to Leontius (Reply #99)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:25 AM

100. Your post is nonsensical.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:38 AM

103. That's not lost on gun owners.

Yeah, you are supposed to cower in fear. That's what they want.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:52 AM

108. But of course you have to do it in one of the states that has his kind of laws. My state does not.

Thank God and a lot of good politicians.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:03 AM

109. Yep. You're right on the money.

Be careful and be safe. There's nowhere to turn.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:24 AM

110. The procecution did its job

The job they had was to make sure they lost the case. The special prosecutor, Angela Corey, is a Republican appointed by Florida’s Republican governor, Rick Scott.

George Zimmerman prosecutors have proved his innocence, says lawyer

In his closing arguments at Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial in Sanford, Florida, Mark O'Mara said it was "a bizarro case" in which prosecutors themselves had proven his client's "pure, unadulterated innocence" beyond a reasonable doubt.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:25 AM

111. As long as your in the Sunshine State... go for it.

Ridiculous if you ask me.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:25 AM

112. only if they are Black, and even better if you are white

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 08:46 AM

114. I am, alas, neither stunned or shocked by this verdict.

But it does not mean that you can pick a fight with anyone and kill them and get away with it. This was Floriduh.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 08:49 AM

116. It's been a very long time since I've had any respect for the law.

This verdict, however, is just beyond disgusting. Open season on black males in Florida. Horrific.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 08:52 AM

118. It's sick and disturbing.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 08:59 AM

119. Florida

Now has legal lynching. That's the message from this tragedy of a verdict.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 09:02 AM

120. :(

me too.

jesus.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 10:00 AM

122. I've refrained from commenting until now.

I am a gun owner and even I thought the guy should have gotten manslaughter.

Sad, sad stuff.

My heart goes out to Trayvon's family.


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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 10:07 AM

123. When was dueling outlawed in the US?

I recall the death of Alexander Hamilton. Aaron burr basically picked a fight with him over a published comment Hamilton said he couldn't remember making. Burr challenged Hamilton to a duel, and I suppose the code of expectations put Hamilton in a position of having to accept.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 10:07 AM

124. My respect for the law vanished in Chicago in 1968.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:09 AM

129. I had exhausted my

respect for law and order well before this trial.

An administration falsified intelligence to justify an unnecessary war and the crime was completely ignored. The evidence is right there in our face, yet nothing. Said war resulted in the suffering and deaths of hundreds of thousands. There is no modern criminal equivalent. The Wall Street theft of 2008 is only theft but it also represents a massive breech of justice. Wall Street thieves were actually rewarded.

There will be no justice in Southern states when race is a factor. These jurists probably watch Fox "News" -a right wing network dedicated to the advancement of racism and fascism.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #129)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:39 AM

130. Everytime justice isn't served, justice is crushed.

Ford's pardon of Nixon was the beginning of it for me. I was 9 and, even at 9, I realized that a guilty person was getting off scot-free.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #130)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:46 AM

132. There seems to have been a justice reset after Nixon.

Then they didn't get to the heart (G H W Bush) of Iran-Contra. That nation has never been the same. The intell community has essentially been a criminal arm of the government since. That is just my take from my limited perspective.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:41 AM

131. +1

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:21 PM

133. Just do not smoke a joint.

Imagine how some of us felt when someone like Pete Wilson introduced the law "Smoke a joint- lose your license".

Some of us have been in this place a long long time. I have pretty crap words for this country in many ways. Not that bad stuff doesn't happen else where.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Jul 15, 2013, 11:38 PM

137. Not entirely. Only if you're white

and the other guy/gal is non-white.

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