In the US, Support Grows for Whistle Blower Snowden as Anger Increases over Massive Surveillance

[sabrina 1]

America is finally showing signs of waking up after more than a decade of looking more like the Land of the Cowardly than the Home of the Brave.

This despite the Corporate Media's slanted coverage of the latest leaks from the latest Whistle Blower regarding the destruction of the 4th Amendment rights of the American people, policies which began under Bush and as has been revealed, continued and expanded under President Obama.

Americans say Snowden isn’t a traitor

Approximately 55% of American voters view Snowden as a “whistle-blower,” according to new Quinnipiac University poll. Only 34% consider him a “traitor” for revealing details on two of the nation’s top secret surveillance programs.

A majority view him as a whistle-blower in every subgroup–political party, gender, income, education, and age–except for African -American voters, among whom 43% call him a traitor and 42% a whistle-blower.

Researchers also spotted a “massive swing in public opinion” when it comes to how the public feels about spying programs in relation to civil liberties. Now, 45% of voters say the government goes way too far restricting civil liberties in regard to its anti-terrorism efforts. That’s a big switch from 2010 when 63% felt the government didn’t go far enough in its efforts to protect the country from terrorists.

A 'massive swing' since just two years ago. That's good news, but it's difficult not to be angry that it took so long because that is what made it possible for all these abuses to take place.

Voters Support Snowden

U.S. Voters Say Snowden Is Whistle-Blower, Not Traitor, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Big Shift On Civil Liberties vs. Counter-Terrorism

The opinions about Snowden were fairly independent of political party association, education level or household income. Only one demographic factor did show a significant effect; that was age, with support for Snowden declining with the increasing age of the respondents.

Take that Dick Cheney, George Bush, Ari Fleischer, John Boehner, and Peter King who once again are on the wrong side of history and a few of them still on the wrong of the prison walls. Some day maybe justice will be done.


The only solution is for the International Community to come together, as they have in the past after a crisis that affects humanity as a whole, and begin the process of ending these abuses against Civil Liberties everywhere.

[iemitsu]

1. I like that your conclusion is positive.

I have been hoping that the international community would pressure us to stop acting with such disregard for others and the world. And you think its the only thing we can do. I hope it happens. The bi-polar world was better than the single super-power world. The monopoly needs to be broken.

[sabrina 1]

10. I am hoping these revelations will result in something like the Geneva Conventions after WW11.

I don't know if there are enough ethical people in the world today to put together a set of International laws and/or an International Bill of Rights making these abuses illegal everywhere. It won't work if just one country does it, it has to be everyone. Who could propose it? Maybe no one from the more powerful nations, being they all appear to be involved.

Latin American nations, the Alliance of Latin American nations seem the most likely to do so and maybe it is advantageous to all the others to agree, to protect their own secrets since all of them are threatened by the abuses now.

[iemitsu]

17. When I was younger I believed that the US could be and was a moral leader

in the world.
Turned out that was all Cold War propaganda.
We can't trust the US or any small coalition of countries to determine how countries should behave internationally. All countries need to be included, in such a discussion, and the concerns of all must be addressed. People's needs must come before profit or the "needs" of a corporation. Clean environmental policy must come before profit too and all must have access to clean water and food.
The problems associated with capitalism need to be addressed too. We can't have an economic system that depends on the exploitation of human and natural resources and at the same time respect people or the environment. Likewise, we can't depend on a system that requires constant growth in a limited world.
That ride was fun, but we have to get off.
I hope that people can get together and take control of the out-of-control power elites that currently run our world.

[randome]

30. Did I sleep through a few world wars there?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[sabrina 1]

32. I guess so. A war on Human Rights not to mention the Great War on Terror which as Bush

told the world, would take place all over the world. I don't know, maybe you have been sleeping?

[randome]

33. I was referring to World War Eleven in the post to which I responded.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[cantbeserious]

2. Thank You For Sharing - Let Us Hope The Fear Mongers Are Vanquished

eom

[pinboy3niner]

3. I'd post what I really think--but I'm afraid the NSA would nail me

So let me just say that I support whatever the NSA thinks is necessary to protect us, even if it means capturing my phone calls and emails and social media posts. I'm behind them all the way!

[sabrina 1]

14. I'm behind them all the way too, and I'm behind all those Private Security Corps they

use to fight terror .... and anything they do I'm sure they're doing for National Security reasons.

[CountAllVotes]

26. +1

Almost afraid to post a "+1" -- is someone recording/watching us?

*eek:

as well just for the hell of it all ...

[uponit7771]

4. Gave intel to Chinas GOVERNMENT RAN media = damn traitor. Or do people think China's got religion...

...about freedom of the press the second Snowden landed in the country?!

[sabrina 1]

8. Gave leaks to the media. That's what Whistle Blowers do when it becomes clear there is no

other way to get the information to the people.

[lamp_shade]

5. To many, the word "whistle-blower" has a derogatory connotation. n/t

[sabrina 1]

7. To whom does it have a derogatory connotation?

[Laelth]

6. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

[rhett o rick]

9. Again this is a fight between the OligarchCabal and their mindless minions and the rest of us. nm

[struggle4progress]

11. That poll contains confusing results

Overall, majorities answer YES to Question 42: Do you support or oppose the federal government program in which all phone calls are scanned to see if any calls are going to a phone number linked to terrorism?

Overall, majorities answer YES to Question 43: Do you think this program is necessary to keep Americans safe or not?

Overall, majorities answer YES to Question 44. Do you think this program is too much intrusion into Americans' personal privacy or not?

So there's some very strange center ground right now where people support scanning all phone calls to see if any calls are going to a phone number linked to terrorism, believe the program is necessary to keep Americans safe, and think the program is too much intrusion into Americans' personal privacy

The psychology there might be somewhat weird and counter-intuitive. One guess is that we're looking at people stuck there in the middle because they're full of anxieties: if so, ramping up their anxieties might not move them much but might simply harden their positions. So perhaps question is not be to scare more people to move into the "too much intrusion" column but how to reassure more people enough to move them out of the "support scanning all phone calls to keep Americans safe" column

[sabrina 1]

13. Not really, if those responding interpreted that to mean on individual occasions. The question

isn't clear. If someone asked me 'what should they do if they have the number of a terrorist and need to know who he is calling, would scanning all phone numbers to try to find that out be okay'? I might answer yes, IF I didn't really think about it.

Because that question makes no sense. IF they HAVE a terrorist's number, there is no possible reason to scan every number in the country. All they need to do is to get a legitimate warrant from a regular court then go get HIS phone records and they will know where all of his calls are calling.

The question is based on the explanation given by Obama, which made no sense whatsoever and still doesn't.

[Egnever]

18. I think that is a very simplistic view of the issue

Sure they can get a warrant and see who that terrorist calls but that is not nearly the end. Then you have to follow where those numbers go and determine which have common threads with others you have tracked. All of this could need to be done quickly if there is a lot of activity and getting warrants to follow all of that would be very time consuming just in paper work alone.

Also dont forget many of these calls have international origins so getting a warrant for that information would be impossible most likely in many of the countries.

This is not joe drug dealer they are trying to track these are international terrorist rings.

Many of these phones will be burners with no info on them to tie them to people.

I dont much like the idea of them storing all numbers dialed myself. I can however wrap my head around what they are trying to accomplish with this and spying on you isnt it.

The amount of data all by itself almost ensures you remain the same anonymous person you have always been unless you talk to people who talk to terrorists. It is like you are the needle in the hay stack its just too much data to do anything with unless you have specific targets to try to sift out.

That is not to say that using that stored data they cant find better ways of categorizing it to ferret out patterns and people likely will. I would be surprised if they could do it today.

I certainly think the laws need tweaking but technology is changing the world we live in. There is very little that is private anymore. Hell the grocery store likely has much more data on you than the government gets from this.

This is longer than I meant it to be so I will just say again this is much more complex than just getting a warrant for one phone line and seeing who it calls. It is also such a large amount of data that you would have to be looking for very specific things to really do much of anything with. As long as those specifics are confined by a court review process I have a very hard time seeing it as a problem.

[sabrina 1]

19. I'm sorry but I just can't agree with that. First, wasting time and money on this, billions of our

tax dollars, to one day, maybe, who knows when, try to find a needle in a giant haystack doesn't inspire much confidence in our security apparatus.

Second the people who actually DO have something to hide, know HOW to hide it. So let's hope they know that or while they are busy collecting all this data, terrorists are going along with their business completely uninhibited.

And third, there is absolutely no reason not to use the tried and true methods that do not invade the privacy of everyone in the world, where Private Corps, now in charge of our security for some inexplicable reason other than profit, have zero concerns for anything except money, which is really what all this is about.

People can search for reasons to justify it, but there really are none. I am hoping that this will finally get the International Community, all of whom are affected, to start taking steps to reign in these rogue practices and make them illegal Internationally.

As for terror, we can end that by ending our terrorizing of countries in order to steal their resources which we've been doing now for decades.

[Egnever]

41. Terror has been around since the dawn of man

its not going anywhere no matter what we do. There will always be epeople that dont agree with the system ion place that resort to terror to make their point.

The international community isnt going to do squat cause they are all doing the same thing in one form or another to their citizens.If you think the rest of the world is somehow more noble you are kidding yourself. Sure they will make noise and stomp heir feet cause its fun to poke a stick in the eye of the US. But nothing will change. Nor should it.


Using ""tried and true methods" wont work in a world of digital communication. There needs to be new methods developed and thats what they are doing.

You need to get used to the fact that everything you do is being tracked now be it by the grocery store or the government. The internet has changed our world completely. Some of those changes are troubling to be sure but it also brings with it a whole lot of amazing things that improve our lives and the lives of the world

The Arab spring would not have been possible without the internet for example.

I do think its important that we take a close look at our laws regarding how the government is allowed to use this new data but pretending we will be going back to the old ways is kidding yourself. The internet changed the world and continues to change it. You cant just stop and get off.

[sabrina 1]

42. No, I do not, although I'm sure this was the opinion of many after other technological advancements:

You need to get used to the fact that everything you do is being tracked now be it by the grocery store or the government.

And a majority of the American people now agree with me, not to mention an even larger majority around the globe.

The telephone, 'changed our world' and it too was abused until people finally got tired of the abuses and laws were put in place to punish abusers.

The international community isnt going to do squat cause they are all doing the same thing in one form or another to their citizens

That's exactly why they WILL do something, because no one has anything to gain now from all this spying, only the assault on Human Rights which even if governments have no respect for, their people do, as we are seeing all over the world.

[Egnever]

44. Then you need to get off the computer now and go live in the woods.

The internet is not going away and it records everything you do on it including where you buy your gas and get your cookies.

No one has anything to gain from all the spying? Now i know you are just pulling my leg. Spying isnt going away either nor should it. It is important we know when Irans nuclear programs come online. Thats spying! and we definitely benefit from that information.

I dont think you really understand the internet and how it works or the fact that it records everything and does not forget. I dont think you really understand that the same communication lines that carry internet data also carries our phone data. This stuff is not going away.

I agree that like phone communications there needs to be laws regarding the governments use of all of this new data but pretending the UN is going to force us to disconnect from the trunk is silly. This is something we need to address ourselves in our country and when you are ready to get to work doing that instead of pretending this Snowden thief is some sort of hero. I will be ready to get on board.

[winter is coming]

12. Time to uncover another "terror plot", then. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. There's a simple solution to this problem. Give Snowden his passport and call off the dogs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Pie coming your way

how dare you? You Paulits, commie, randian, anti American, racist....

Just kidding.

Anyhoo...what is the weekly smear?

[sabrina 1]

34. Lol, well, fortunately 'sticks and stones' never did bother me too much! Armed with facts

has always been the way to ward off those attempts to distract from the main problems we are facing.

The weekly smear is probably being cooked up in some Private Contractor's undisclosed location right now. 'Snowden hates women'? Or the Assange smear, which the CIA thought was a good one 'get him embroiled in a sex scandal'. Snowden needs to avoid strange women now like the plague.

[L0oniX]

40. Facts? Smacks. Snowden loves bunnies ...and who ever hates him hates bunnies too.

I'm gawd awful sick and tired of seeing all the anti Snowden posts. Someone might have a deranged obsessive compulsive disorder with their hate for Snowden.

[hootinholler]

20. I'm surprised the vocal minority hasn't been working this one here. n/t

[byeya]

21. Facts are garlic to the loud minority. Q-Pac is a respected polling organization and Americans

are tiring of being played for chumps.
Speaking of chumps...

[sabrina 1]

22. It's hard to argue with facts, not that we haven't seem some gargantuan efforts

in that department. But these polls show that when the American people have access to some facts, and if you read the articles, it is young people who are now driving the results and they get their news from various sources, the results of polls reflect a more educated view of things.

[hootinholler]

25. I really was expecting circular logic

Supported by circular links and I was pleasantly surprised.

[Savannahmann]

23. Don't those 55% understand

The story, the whole story, and nothing but the story is Snowden. There is no illegal spying. At least that's what the apologists tell us. The defenders of the faith insist that there is nothing wrong, and that is why we have to keep it a secret.

[99Forever]

24. Um...

"Take that Dick Cheney, George Bush, Ari Fleischer, John Boehner, and Peter King who once again are on the wrong side of history and a few of them still on the wrong of the prison walls."

Why is there no one on that list that is actually in the position to change what's going on?

Sorry Sabrina, it ain't just "them evil Repubs" behind this.

[sabrina 1]

28. You are absolutely right that it is not just Republicans. I should have explained why

I chose those particular names, but thought it was obvious, now reading it back I can see it is not.

[b]They have all come out recently in support of Obama.

Sorry, it wasn't meant to imply anything other than their public statements in support of this Democratic President's policies.

[99Forever]

31. Thanks for clearing that up.

Seemed a bit out of character for you.

[sabrina 1]

37. I have to remember that what is in my thoughts, isn't necessarly obvious to everyone else. Thanks

for pointing that out!

[William769]

27. Kick & highly recommended.

[Octafish]

29. This is most encouraging news, sabrina 1!

Despite our faults and shortcomings, We the People still know right from wrong. Which, according to the NSA last year, is more than most people in positions of authority.

[sabrina 1]

36. How can anyone doubt that the Bush administration completely ignored all warnings regqrding

an imminent attack on the US? And knowing this to be a fact backed up by documentation, what kind of Government chooses to ignore it and just 'move forward'?

The material contains much new information about the hunt before and after 9/11 for bin Laden, the development of the drone campaign in AfPak, and al-Qaida’s relationship with America’s ally, Pakistan. Perhaps most damning are the documents showing that the CIA had bin Laden in its cross hairs a full year before 9/11 — but didn’t get the funding from the Bush administration White House to take him out or even continue monitoring him. The CIA materials directly contradict the many claims of Bush officials that it was aggressively pursuing al-Qaida prior to 9/11, and that nobody could have predicted the attacks. “I don’t think the Bush administration would want to see these released, because they paint a picture of the CIA knowing something would happen before 9/11, but they didn’t get the institutional support they needed,” says Barbara Elias-Sanborn, the NSA fellow who edited the materials.

Richard Clarke was right. John O'Neill was right. And for some reason there are people roaming the internet attempting to suppress this information. The question is 'why'?

[byeya]

38. Why? maybe they think they have a lot invested in Pres Obama because they voted for him and

refuse to see counterproductive policies he's either continued or put into place.

[sabrina 1]

39. Yes, he has continued Bush policies unfortunately, but that doesn't explain people being so willing

to suddenly defend what they once so openly opposed. We have record of people's positions on this issues. So it's sad beyond belief to see them do such a complete turnaround on important issues like this. UNLESS it was always 'all about politics' to them and they never really cared about the issues at all.

[20score]

35. Most people are a little slow on the uptake, but they

eventually get there.

(Don't mean to sound harsh, but after the Iraq War, torture, spying, etc., right from wrong should be easier to discern.)

[KoKo]

43. Good Point...it's slow going...but, many confused are waking up that something

is going on...that's not in their best interests.

They see news about Wall Street UP! But, they have little invested in it. They see protests in their states and they wondery WHY?

They see their living standards barely holding on while people rant about Stock Market and they are Pitched Investments every where they go...while they have little enough to try to feed their families.

At some point things don't add up. Then the "questions" come.

"WHY?"

[Liberal_Dog]

45. K & R

This is encouraging.