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Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:53 PM

 

My prediction of the Zimmerman verdict: Not guilty of anything

He walks free.

64 replies, 4532 views

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Arrow 64 replies Author Time Post
Reply My prediction of the Zimmerman verdict: Not guilty of anything (Original post)
Blue Bike Jul 2013 OP
Skittles Jul 2013 #1
CatWoman Jul 2013 #2
pinboy3niner Jul 2013 #24
brush Jul 2013 #49
rdharma Jul 2013 #51
Auntie Bush Jul 2013 #3
Rex Jul 2013 #4
Jenoch Jul 2013 #7
Rex Jul 2013 #8
Blue Bike Jul 2013 #21
Fringe Jul 2013 #27
Jenoch Jul 2013 #22
katmondoo Jul 2013 #12
Rex Jul 2013 #13
nenagh Jul 2013 #5
Just Saying Jul 2013 #38
badtoworse Jul 2013 #6
trumad Jul 2013 #9
devilgrrl Jul 2013 #15
JustAnotherGen Jul 2013 #30
devilgrrl Jul 2013 #61
RandiFan1290 Jul 2013 #10
Trajan Jul 2013 #29
Taverner Jul 2013 #11
Jenoch Jul 2013 #23
Doremus Jul 2013 #14
Nye Bevan Jul 2013 #25
Doremus Jul 2013 #62
Morganfleeman Jul 2013 #16
Trajan Jul 2013 #36
Just Saying Jul 2013 #40
Hoyt Jul 2013 #55
countingbluecars Jul 2013 #17
Quixote1818 Jul 2013 #18
sbh Jul 2013 #19
WinkyDink Jul 2013 #20
Nevernose Jul 2013 #26
bravenak Jul 2013 #28
bowens43 Jul 2013 #31
Trajan Jul 2013 #32
NightWatcher Jul 2013 #33
Owl Jul 2013 #34
Fringe Jul 2013 #35
GiaGiovanni Jul 2013 #37
customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #46
GiaGiovanni Jul 2013 #50
customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #58
GiaGiovanni Jul 2013 #59
Change has come Jul 2013 #39
Deuce Jul 2013 #41
AlinPA Jul 2013 #42
rollin74 Jul 2013 #43
spin Jul 2013 #44
customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #45
miked62916 Jul 2013 #47
brush Jul 2013 #48
dtom67 Jul 2013 #52
zeeland Jul 2013 #53
Riftaxe Jul 2013 #54
MjolnirTime Jul 2013 #56
bayareamike Jul 2013 #57
Name removed Jul 2013 #63
hrmjustin Jul 2013 #64
LanternWaste Jul 2013 #60

Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:59 PM

1. is that your prediction or your hope?

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:00 PM

2. let it sink Skittles

into the abyss, where it belongs.

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Response to CatWoman (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:30 PM

24. Have you seen the latest?

African American journalist: "Where's the outrage about black-on-black crime?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023229250


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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #24)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 12:16 AM

49. Where is it on white on white crime

or brown on brown? It's a specious argument. Of course no one is happy about crime but the vast majority of crimes are committed against someone of the same ethnicity as the criminal.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #24)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 01:20 AM

51. Yup! Check the OP's journal..... you can see his agenda! nt

 

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:11 PM

3. That would be a travesty of justice.

Just like Anthony and OJ. And many who are put away for years and are later found innocent.

I guess there is no perfect way to obtain justice.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:12 PM

4. My prediction is that he will get 2nd degree murder.

Pretty open and shut case.

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Response to Rex (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:22 PM

7. "Pretty open and shut case."

You must be following a different Zimmerman trial than the rest of the country.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:25 PM

8. No everyone sees that he is guilty, just a handful of

gun nuts are saying he is innocent of all charges. Guess you are watching too much Foxnews.

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Response to Blue Bike (Reply #21)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:37 PM

27. Dan Abrams is an idiot.

He's been wrong about a lot of things over the years. I use to watch him back in the early 2000s.

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Response to Rex (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:20 PM

22. I think he's guilty.

I don't watch FoxNews. I am on record on these threads as saying he should not have been carrying a gun. But to describe this case as 'open and shut' is ridiculous. Do you think this was an easy case to prosecute? I have not seen a single person with a background in the law say anything even approaching to 'open and shut'. What information do you have that the prosecutors do not have? If you have evidence that they did not have that would make this an 'open and shut' case, why didn't you turn over that evidence to the authorities in Florida?

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Response to Rex (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:31 PM

12. I agree 2nd degree murder

and a lot of pundits will have red faces

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Response to katmondoo (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:33 PM

13. Yes the M$M will be completely wrong on this one.

Not that they will acknowledge their mistake or bias.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:14 PM

5. My prediction is that Zimmerman will fall asleep tomorrow

Unless they modify his dosage..

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Response to nenagh (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:58 PM

38. This ^^^

Best thing on this thread.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:16 PM

6. I tend to agree

I don't see how the prosecution proved murder. Manslaughter is iffy.

In my mind, how the fight started would need to be established to support manslaughter and the prosecution did not do that.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:26 PM

9. My prediction for you...

one week max.

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Response to trumad (Reply #9)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:41 PM

30. +1

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Response to trumad (Reply #9)


Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:28 PM

10. Hooray for Pepe!

Welcome Back!

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:40 PM

29. +1000

It probably isn't pepe, but you're on the right track ...

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:30 PM

11. I actually think he'll get manslaughter

 

He deserves 2nd degree, but since the Judge OK'd the request - it must have been in the minds of the jury.

My guess - manslaughter and he'll get 5 years max

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Response to Taverner (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:23 PM

23. A sentence of 5 years is what he would get for aggravated assault.

Manslaughter with a gun in Florida is either 25 to life or up to 30 years. I've seen both of those sentences mentioned. If he is convicted, I don't think he'll get 5 years.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:34 PM

14. I knew it the day they showed him walking through the police garage without so much as a bruise

Surveillance video from a camera looking down from above in the police garage. Z walks through, camera shows extended view of the top and back of his head. Not a single mark, let alone any injuries or blood.

That was when I knew he would eventually walk away from all charges, and I still think so.

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Response to Doremus (Reply #14)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:35 PM

25. Did the prosecution introduce this video as evidence? (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #25)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 05:02 PM

62. I haven't been following the trial. VIDEO link

Perhaps someone else will come along and answer your question as I haven't watched any of the trial coverage.

Here's a link to the video:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/28/1078684/-Breaking-News-CurrentTV-Countdown-Trayvon-Martin-video#

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:37 PM

16. When the prosecution equivocates

About what happened on the night Martin was killed I.e., it could be this or could be that, then the case is on soft foundation, the prosecution itself is providing the jury with reasonable doubt. There is ZERO chance of a murder 2 conviction.proving ill will or hatred is incredibly difficult, I've not heard of a single case where use of expletives amounted to ill will or hatred. Findings of ill will or hatred are almost always in cases where both parties know each other, not a case like this.

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Response to Morganfleeman (Reply #16)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:47 PM

36. Back in the day ...

... the guys hanging around the lynching tree were all smiles ....

No enmity was expressed ... it's just a lynchin ... let's grab an ice cream ....

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Response to Morganfleeman (Reply #16)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 10:05 PM

40. I don't know when and how it's used in Florida.

But for Second Degree Murder they have to show a "depraved mind regardless of human life." I think putting a gun to a kid's chest and pulling the trigger qualifies.

But maybe that's just me.

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Response to Just Saying (Reply #40)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 01:49 AM

55. I agree. Zippie demonstrated a depraved mind when he grabbed his gun and took


off after an innocent, unarmed kid. If kid did anything, it's because he was in fear of his life.

His past indicates a depraved mind, as well.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:37 PM

17. If so, it is because

little value was placed on this young black man's life.

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Response to countingbluecars (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:15 PM

18. Bingo! nt

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:20 PM

19. Oh bollucks.

 

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:20 PM

20. Manslaughter. Bank on it.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:37 PM

26. Why do you think that?

Just curious.

For the record, if I were on the jury, I'd vote for manslaughter.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:37 PM

28. Good for u.

I predict Zimmerman will gain five pounds tomorrow from worrying and then sweat it off.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:42 PM

31. possibly. We do live in one fucked up country full gun loving psychopaths

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:43 PM

32. Easy call ... not particularly brave ...

As much as I hate the fact, I see an acquittal ...

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:45 PM

33. Do we still throw pizza parties?

I smell a Tombstone in the oven. Maybe wash it down with a cold PPR?

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:45 PM

34. He's guilty as sin though.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:46 PM

35. No one really knows.

People on both sides are projecting their views on what they think the verdict will be. No one really knows the minds of the jury.

The jury may be influenced by their own experiences and environment. They may just want to get home in time to watch Saturday night live.

I don't know what the verdict will be, but I don't believe anyone as crazy as Zimmerman should be free to roam about.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:51 PM

37. No. It will most likely be manslaughter

 

The jury will reason that they have to do something, but won't see enough evidence for 2nd degree murder. But they won't want to let Zimmerman off.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Reply #37)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 10:58 PM

46. Ah, but the defense gave them an "out" for that

He's stated that GZ will fear for his life for the rest of it, and so will never be truly off scot-free.

O'Mara will go to any lengths to win, we've seen it at every step in the proceedings.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #46)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 01:07 AM

50. That's an emotional argument, not a legal one

 

Legally, several things are pretty clear:

a. Zimmerman was heard pursuing Trayvon Martin on his (Zimmerman's) call to the police.

b. Trayvon did get away from Zimmerman and out of sight for a minute or so during that call. (This is clear on Zimmerman's call to the police).

c. Black box--Two minutes of no one seeing anything. The phone call from Rachel fits in here, and her testimony establishes that Zimmerman and Martin met up again and had a verbal altercation. Then the phone contact is ended, probably by the phone falling, but no one really knows for sure. I believe that Rachel heard an altercation, but she changed her testimony on what was actually said, so it's hard to assign blame for the altercation from her testimony alone. (I'm not faulting Rachel here; memory is often inaccurate, especially at times of great emotional stress.)

d. The first 911 calls from neighbors occur when Zimmerman (established by experts and evidence) is under Trayvon Martin, who is punching him. The wounds on Zimmerman and the grass on his jacket indicate, that at least for a short time, Trayvon had gotten the upper hand. Testimony from some other neighbors seems to indicate that perhaps Zimmerman had the upper hand at some point, but these neighbors were not clear on cross examination. (Honestly, the prosecution did a lousy job preparing these people. It was grueling to watch.)


e. Zimmerman shoots Trayvon Martin at 7:17 pm. The physical evidence indicates that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman when the gunshot went off.


The only story we have for item (c) (the black box) is from George Zimmerman himself, and he claims Trayvon attacked him. There were no witnesses to actually see what happened, and even if Rachel's testimony under oath was accurate, she could not see who threw the first punch.

Zimmerman claimed self-defense, and that is what the prosecution had to undermine. The state had to disprove the self-defense claim.

Unfortunately, they did not. As I said before, the prosecution did a lousy, lousy job. I can't remember seeing such a shoddy job.

At any rate, the state did not disprove the self-defense claim. That doesn't mean Zimmerman is telling the truth, it just means the state did a lousy job. If the 6 jurors go strictly by the evidence in front of them, they cannot convict on a murder charge. There has to be malice aforethought for murder--an intent to murder--which the state could not prove. They could not prove that Zimmerman wanted to kill Trayvon or that Zimmerman wanted to kill a black teenager who was hanging around in his neighborhood. In the end, the prosecution couldn't prove Zimmerman's state of mind. That's the problem with a murder charge.

Manslaughter has a lower threshold. You don't need malice, just negligence. And quite frankly, I thought from the beginning that manslaughter was the way to go on this one. There is more wiggle room with manslaughter, which is why I think the prosecution pushed that point this morning and why the judge agreed to it.

It is my belief that the jury is not going to want to let Zimmerman walk: there is a dead teenager, an admitted killer, and a situation in which Zimmerman's behavior could certainly have been interpreted as provocative by Trayvon. Instead of dialing down the situation by getting in his car and staying there, Zimmerman did follow Trayvon and, later, engaged in a verbal altercation with him. There is some culpability here, and I think the jury will want to do something to punish Zimmerman. That's why I think they will go with manslaughter.

I do not think they will just let Zimmerman go. I am more optimistic than that.

In my own opinion, and this is just my opinion, we can't have people running around with guns and confronting anyone they think looks "suspicious" in their own minds. That's just a recipe for tragedy. Trayvon's death was a profound tragedy.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Reply #50)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:24 AM

58. You are correct

O'Mara knows that the jury will take their emotions into the deliberation room with them. In fact, most of the "Zimmerman is guilty of first degree murder" folks who post here are counting on it. He didn't take this case to lose it, and he knows he has to hit all of the buttons, legal, emotional, and logical, if he is to win it.

I agree with your timeline, but not your conclusion. In many Western and Southern states, one's right to bear arms naturally has the corollary of the law dealing with a death from that situation being treated differently than it would be in the Northeast. In other words, if a society in a particular place allows guns fairly freely, sometimes stuff is going to happen, and that society "accepts" that in a way that is different from the mindset of "Somebody died/was injured, there must be a guilty party, and someone must pay a price."

The Florida statutes on the use of self-defense seem to be written to the edge of a Wild West mentality, if it still exists in any form in the United States. It is that body of law that the jury will have to deal with in the deliberation room along with the facts as you've laid them out.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #58)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 12:36 PM

59. I might agree with you on the Wild West mentality if

 

(1) This weren't a national case being watched in the media here and worldwide
(2) The jury were all male

I think women bring something different to the table, a different sense of responsibility. Even in Wild West kinds of states, women have less patience with males brandishing guns without a really legitimate reason.

Of course, I could be wrong. This is Florida after all.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 10:01 PM

39. I like that you've recommended your own OP.

Very classy.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 10:05 PM

41. I predict that, irregardless of what legal solution the legal system provides,

George Zimmerman will face street justice.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 10:19 PM

42. My prediction is that this trial will go on for another 6 months. It's good TV for MSNBC, CNN,FOX.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 10:24 PM

43. I agree. I think he'll be found not guilty on all charges

the prosecution hasn't proven guilt beyond a reasonable doubt imo

I do think there is a chance he could be convicted of manslaughter

2nd degree murder conviction is VERY unlikely. I don't think even the prosecutors expect that.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 10:50 PM

44. While I fault Zimmerman and honestly feel that he should go to jail ...

if I was on the jury, I would not be convinced that he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

The evidence simply hasn't been convincing enough.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 10:56 PM

45. I'd agree

Except that if I did so, I'd be labeled a Zimmerman defender.

The prosecution did a lousy job.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 11:43 PM

47. That's what I fear as well

 

Hopefully justice will be served, and the scumbag rots in jail for a long, long time.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 12:12 AM

48. You wish

That lying scumbag is going to jail for a long time. Too many blatant lies uncovered.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 01:22 AM

52. stand you ground is a bad law

And, regardless of. The outcome of the trial, this should serve as a prime example of why it is a bad idea to let corporate lobbyists write legislation.
This guy is a murderer. Freeing him would set a bad precedent.

Soon see ....

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 01:28 AM

53. Please elaborate. Your prediction is arrived at because? n/t

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 01:36 AM

54. I predict

People will have a hissy fit no matter what the verdict or counts.

Those who follow the DU version of the trial if Z is acquitted will be outraged (Hell, I would be too if DU was my only reference)

Those who followed the trial will assume that 2nd degree is right out the door, and manslaughter is hanging on a tiny slip that the prosecution has created by going out of it's way to avoid presenting a solid case for.

In the end, the overwhelming majority of people will just not care. Worth repeating, they will not care.

No matter what the verdict, it is amazing how little knowledge people have of the judicial system or the damned good reasons behind it's limitations.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 01:58 AM

56. Thanks for the racist troll POV.

 

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 02:13 AM

57. I'm pretty sure he's going to be convicted of manslaughter.

I don't think the prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he murdered Trayvon, but I can see the jury convicting him of manslaughter. If he is then he'll go to prison anyways potentially for a long time since the maximum sentence for manslaughter involving a firearm is 30 years in FL.

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Response to bayareamike (Reply #57)


Response to Name removed (Reply #63)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 04:12 PM

64. Do you think Zimmerman was innocent or guilty?

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 12:53 PM

60. And of his attempt to launder-money from his jail cell? Innocent, again?

And of his attempt to launder-money from his jail cell? Innocent, again?

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