HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » If Martin and Zimmerman h...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:09 PM

If Martin and Zimmerman had passed each other on their evening stroll...

And both had continued to go about their own business, then there would have never been any reason to have a struggle that would have ended in the death of one or the other.

Except that one of them wasn't out there to mind his own business that night.

Because of that, the other person was made a victim... A dead victim.

27 replies, 1838 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 27 replies Author Time Post
Reply If Martin and Zimmerman had passed each other on their evening stroll... (Original post)
MrScorpio Jul 2013 OP
noiretextatique Jul 2013 #1
uponit7771 Jul 2013 #2
MrScorpio Jul 2013 #3
Captain Stern Jul 2013 #5
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #6
BainsBane Jul 2013 #26
denverbill Jul 2013 #7
justanaverageguy Jul 2013 #8
Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #10
ManiacJoe Jul 2013 #20
displacedtexan Jul 2013 #11
gollygee Jul 2013 #16
noiretextatique Jul 2013 #17
JohnnyLib2 Jul 2013 #4
Hubert Flottz Jul 2013 #9
suzanner Jul 2013 #13
noiretextatique Jul 2013 #15
Hubert Flottz Jul 2013 #24
world wide wally Jul 2013 #12
NightWatcher Jul 2013 #14
Renew Deal Jul 2013 #18
noiretextatique Jul 2013 #21
HipChick Jul 2013 #19
suzanner Jul 2013 #22
HipChick Jul 2013 #23
Judi Lynn Jul 2013 #25
DonCoquixote Jul 2013 #27

Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:16 PM

1. and what if Martin somehow managed to get the gun and kill Zimmerman

would some people be calling him "a hero who deserves a medal?" would the rw noise machine be concerned about Martin getting a fair trial? would any of the faux commentators be supporting Martin? or gun "enthusiasts?" NO.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to noiretextatique (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:17 PM

2. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to noiretextatique (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:17 PM

3. We both know the answer to that question nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to noiretextatique (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:32 PM

5. That's an interesting hypothetical scenario

I think that if Martin had gotten Zimmerman's gun and killed him with it during their struggle the following would have happened:

1) The police would have done a far more thorough investigation than they did.
2) It wouldn't have taken anywhere near 46 days to arrest Martin.
3) Martin would have been charged with Manslaughter.
4) Martin would have been found 'not guilty' by reason of self-defense (based mainly on his testimony that a creepy guy that had been following him, attacked him)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Captain Stern (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:34 PM

6. You know it!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Captain Stern (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 06:27 AM

26. Martin would be on death row by now

charged with first degree murder.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to noiretextatique (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:38 PM

7. Under Florida law, if Martin had a gun, he could have shot Zimmerman instead of hitting him.

He had a right to 'stand his ground' and shoot if he felt threatened. Somebody following you around in the dark, first in a car, then on foot, would definitely threaten me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to denverbill (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:03 PM

8. not If I were on the jury....

Before you convince me that you felt that you were in so much fear of your life that you had no choice but to shoot someone you would have to come at me with more than "well it was dark and he was following me." It's not a question of if you felt threaten but rather was your fear and reaction reasonable under the circumstances.

I can reasonably feel some level of threat if an 80 year old grandma is hitting me with her purse, but pulling out a .45 and blowing her brains out is not a reasonable reaction. By the same token, shooting someone for simply following you may be a reasonable reason to feel some threat, but shooting them for following you is not a reasonable reaction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to denverbill (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:49 PM

10. Technically, no (he was a minor: illegal to carry), but I agree with your main point.

I consider Zimmerman's actions to be such that Martin would have had reason to fear for his safety (a fear that proved tragically justified). In his place, I wouldn't have immediately opened fire as Zimmerman finally approached...but I'd have been prepared to draw and fire. I would NOT be okay with allowing someone who'd been following me around like that getting within arm's reach.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to denverbill (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:10 PM

20. Just "being followed" does not meet the legal requirements

for lethal self-defense in any jurisdiction regardless of how scared you may be.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to noiretextatique (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:06 PM

11. We'd still have GZ's creepy 911 call crap.

"There's a suspicious guy, looks like he's on drugs or sumpin'."

tHat's never going away, fortunately.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to noiretextatique (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:01 PM

16. +1

I had not heard that anyone was calling Zimmerman a hero who needs a medal! How disgusting is that?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gollygee (Reply #16)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:04 PM

17. some asshole on faux new TODAY...there is a thread here about it

"the poor guy was jus trying to defend himself" i believe that's the title of the thread.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:28 PM

4. So true, and so sad.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:29 PM

9. I think Zimmerman was and probably still is, a simmering psychopath.

Probably always bailed out of trouble by his father the judge. He just needed his chance to turn into the role of that player he played on the night he attacked and killed that child. Because a boy who is just a few days past being a 15 year old, is still a child. Even the Army thinks boys that age are too young to be sent off to be slaughtered "for the cause."

Zimmerman has a Barney Fife Complex and he was just silly and evil enough to want to try out his weapon and "Training" on the first unlucky guy or child, that fit the sight picture he'd formed in his Ted Bundy like mind.

Zimmerman needs to be locked up for a very long time in super max housing, where he poses no threat to society or his sad ass self.

I can't believe the state never went for murder one, but then I remember that Zimmy's dad, still probably had some political pull.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hubert Flottz (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:03 PM

13. I agree. Things don't add up.

First, back when networks covered the incident, they had maps and Zim's own story that he circled around to intercept Martin. Second, the phone call Martin was having doesn't add up to the confrontation Zim claims took place. Third, if Martin was on top, how was it that Zim got not a drop of Martin's blood on himself? Fourth, the injuries to Zim were minor and my gut tells me self-inflicted after the fact. Fifth, someone who has taken classes and is a wanna-be cop in his own mind would NOT be calling for help. Sixth, he was told by the police not to leave his car but he did anyway. I could go on and on. Zim is guilty of pre-meditated murder IMO, from the moment he stepped out of his car. He'd been hoping for such an incident for months.
PS. I haven't followed closely at all, but it sounds like the prosecution was very weak. Why??

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to suzanner (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:58 PM

15. the only people who zimmerman's story makes any sense to

are racists who believe black males are "punks" and "suspicious." zimmermna's story is little more than an appeal to racism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to suzanner (Reply #13)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 06:07 AM

24. You raise some good points.

I haven't followed the trial on TV either, but from the bits and pieces I have seen, I have to agree that the prosecution's case was weak. The "why" has me stumped too.

To let Zimmerman off the hook, could spark a nasty nationwide protest, that the media has helped to set the stage for. Boys and Girls, the media could really make some dough covering America's cities on fire, with blood running in the streets again, like in the 60s. Trouble is, in today's America, there'd be no money to rebuild those cities. No High Court willing to defend anyone's civil rights.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:26 PM

12. As I said since day one...

It was Trayvon Martin who was standing his ground if anyone.
Zimmerman's ground was his car.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:07 PM

14. Trayvon just wanted to go get Skittles and tea

Zimmy was packing a gun and a hard on to get one of "those assholes...they always get away".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:06 PM

18. I think that's the point

If Zimmerman didn't confront Martin, this wouldn't have happened. Maybe the cops would have overreacted

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Renew Deal (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:17 PM

21. true...martin might have been doomed anyway

if the cops had showed up before zimmerman shot him, they might have shot him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:09 PM

19. Zimmerman molested a woman for 10 years, and proud of his racist family

Assaulted a police officer, and his ex-GF...he belongs in jail..sees how fares being a bully with some prison justice

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/george-zimmerman_n_1676729.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HipChick (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 08:42 PM

22. Also, lied to the court about his income/net worth

if you recall.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to suzanner (Reply #22)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 08:43 PM

23. Both him and family seem to have a problem with the truth..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 06:22 AM

25. Zimmerman wouldn't have had the guts to threaten him on an equal to equal basis.

He had to call his posse first, after feeding them the great lie about the "stranger" in the neighborhood, for psychological fuel to power him as he dragged his sorry ass forward to accost the very young man.

The knowledge he had played the cops to arrive quickly gave him assurance he wouldn't be there along long, and he could always lie his ass off in his explanation for calling them, in case he hadn't been able to kill the human being first.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #25)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:12 AM

27. I'll see that and raise you one

A lot of what drives GUN sales is the idea that a scared person can shoot those scary minorities. Many people buy them because they want to intimidate, and they want to intimidate because they are a bunch of scared little boys.

Again I say, if Zimmerman walks, expect 2014 and 2016 to be bloody, as the powers that be know that the threat of bullets will keep people home,especially if the timing is right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread