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Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:36 AM

 

Snowden denies China or Russia took info from his laptops. NYT criticized for anonymous gossip

http://m.guardiannews.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/10/snowden-denies-information-russia-china

See article for details on how the NYT provided no evidence while starting a rumor that many took for granted.

31 replies, 1443 views

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Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply Snowden denies China or Russia took info from his laptops. NYT criticized for anonymous gossip (Original post)
Blue Bike Jul 2013 OP
blm Jul 2013 #1
DesMoinesDem Jul 2013 #2
snappyturtle Jul 2013 #5
Hydra Jul 2013 #16
dkf Jul 2013 #27
snappyturtle Jul 2013 #3
allin99 Jul 2013 #28
railsback Jul 2013 #4
snappyturtle Jul 2013 #6
railsback Jul 2013 #7
snappyturtle Jul 2013 #9
ProSense Jul 2013 #11
snappyturtle Jul 2013 #14
ProSense Jul 2013 #18
snappyturtle Jul 2013 #22
railsback Jul 2013 #12
Blue Bike Jul 2013 #19
ProSense Jul 2013 #8
Laelth Jul 2013 #10
Igel Jul 2013 #13
JaneyVee Jul 2013 #15
Hydra Jul 2013 #17
JaneyVee Jul 2013 #20
Hydra Jul 2013 #21
Blue Bike Jul 2013 #23
JaneyVee Jul 2013 #25
sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #24
LondonReign2 Jul 2013 #26
dkf Jul 2013 #29
JI7 Jul 2013 #30
DevonRex Jul 2013 #31

Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:41 AM

1. How does he know?

Did he not sleep the whole time? Did he not accept any food or drink the last few weeks? Did China assure him that they shared his outrage and would NEVER have gathered information on their citizens? Did the Chinese press owned by a longtime friend of Bush family in China assure Snowden that none of his belongings would be touched while he napped?

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:45 AM

2. Wow. Greenwald linked to DU.

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Response to DesMoinesDem (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:54 AM

5. I saw that. Heads up to Kpete. nt

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Response to DesMoinesDem (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:38 PM

16. LOL

See, people DO read us!

Too bad it was that thread...or maybe it's good people see how bad it got. "Hong Kong Eddie" and speculation that he infected the Chinese networks with the data they stole from him.

And people say my stuff is "out there." I got nuthin' on the Ministry of Truthiness.

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Response to DesMoinesDem (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 04:10 PM

27. Good thing we didn't completely embarrass ourselves...

 

There were a bunch calling out the NYT.

Sure did expose the apologists though.

I wonder how many are blocking these threads and won't ever know they were linked. Lol.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:50 AM

3. Seems to me that the NYT's investigative reporting is lacking and I'm glad

they've been called on it.

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #3)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 04:10 PM

28. they are a hot f-ckin' mess and have been...

for some time.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:53 AM

4. Whatever Snowden says it true

 

Surprised so many didn't get that memo.

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Response to railsback (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:59 AM

6. Pretty much. I believe what other NSA whistleblowers have said.

Even John Clapper. So, unless you can prove otherwise, I think Snowden who has much at risk, is telling the truth. He's trying to protect us better than the 'safeguard' of the secret FISA court who is doing God knows what. imho

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:19 PM

7. Snowden 'trying to protect us'

 

That's rich.

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Response to railsback (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:24 PM

9. I guess you've lived in a tunnel for so long that you don't see what's

happening around you. Sorry.

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:27 PM

11. Snowden is likely the one who "lived in a tunnel"

if he believes that information given to the Chinese press wouldn't end up in the hands of the governement of China.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:34 PM

14. I haven't read anywhere that Snowden gave the info to the Chinese press.

Enlighten please.

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:53 PM

18. Here,

"I haven't read anywhere that Snowden gave the info to the Chinese press."

...FYI:

<...>

Within hours of news breaking that the US had filed charges against Snowden, the South China Morning Post reported that the whistleblower had handed over a series of documents to the paper detailing how the US had targeted Chinese phone companies as part of a widespread attempt to get its hands on a mass of data.

Text messaging is the most popular form of communication in mainland China where more than 900bn SMS messages were exchanged in 2012.Snowden reportedly told the paper: "The NSA does all kinds of things like hack Chinese cellphone companies to steal all of your SMS data."

The paper said Snowden had also passed on information detailing NSA attacks on China's prestigious Tsinghua University, the hub of a major digital network from which data on millions of Chinese citizens could be harvested.

As Snowden made his latest disclosures, the US issued an extradition request to Hong Kong and piled pressure on the territory to respond swiftly. "If Hong Kong doesn't act soon, it will complicate our bilateral relations and raise questions about Hong Kong's commitment to the rule of law," a senior Obama administration official said.

- more -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/22/edward-snowden-us-china

Snowden plans more leaks...will let foreign press decide if leaks endanger Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023084875




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Response to ProSense (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:32 PM

22. Thank you...I hadn't seen this. Well, I'm sure Snowden knows the gov't/press

relationship in China....but at least it was published and not given to the go'vt first where it may never have seen the light of day...we can hope. Thanks again.

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:32 PM

12. Yes, like what 'poverty' really is.

 

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Response to railsback (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:11 PM

19. Greenwald doesn't say it's true

 

He made it clear in his piece: "Obviously, Snowden's denial is not dispositive and shouldn't be treated as such."

In other words, Snowden's assertion doesn't settle the issue, but the fact is that nobody knows what happens, and the NYT anonymous sources are just people avoiding accountability for no reason.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:23 PM

8. Here's an

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:26 PM

10. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:33 PM

13. Rank speculation from anonymous sources?

Since when has that ever stopped people from assuming what's said is true.

In this case, though, I don't think Snowden can know unless he's had the computers with him 24/7 or in some state or location where nobody could access them without access being obvious. That doesn't mean locked in a hotel room while he's doing something elsewhere. And it might not even mean under his pillow while he's sleeping.

Unless he thinks that his software protections are better than anything Russian and/or Chinese IT folk can hack.

What he said is that he never "gave" info to the government. This doesn't contradict the speculation. The take-away message most readers will have, though, is that this claim *does* contradict the speculation.

That he denies any information could have been copied from his laptops ... That's a harder claim for him to make and have stick.

However, he's wrong. He did give information to the Russian and Chinese governments. He gave information to the press. The Russian and Chinese governments each have people who, we can at least speculate, are literate. He may never have given information directly to those governments, but that's a quibble. He also never gave information directly to any Islamic terrorists alleged to exist, nor did he give any information to you or me or the other people at DU. Doesn't mean we didn't get it, now does it?

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:36 PM

15. If its proven he gave no classified info to foreign countries, then pardon him and

Let him live in Venezuela or Nicaragua or wherever.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:48 PM

17. That can't happen

He's opened the can of worms at the FISA court. Almost everyone at the top has tried their best to keep it all under wraps and block the FOIA requests and having people like the ACLU sue them in court over it.

It's all unraveling. The stonewall has worked to this point, Bradley Manning was effectively demonized, and other whistleblowers were effectively being ignored.

Edward Snowden committed a cardinal sin- he opened the doors so that we could see in. There should be no expectation of privacy in any gov't organization if this is a Democracy. We're paying for it, it belongs to us. The people doing this and breaking the law don't agree. They believe they are exceptional, and outside the rules.

Will they be reined it? We'll see.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:12 PM

20. But we knew about this last decade. The NSA isn't going anywhere.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:26 PM

21. No, it's probably not

This is sort of a pivotal moment though. 2 things are different: 1. The Bush Administration didn't care if it was illegal or not, they were doing it anyway. They aren't in charge(are they?) 2. President Obama outlined how all of this was illegal and unnecessary, and there are now court decisions, even from the FISA court that say that they are out of bounds.

There are really only 3 ways this can go:

The Constitution is declared irrelevant in matter of "national security"

The NSA is reined in publicly, regardless of what happens behind the scenes

This all blows over and business as usual

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:47 PM

23. Nobody has to prove that something didn't happen

 

The Government has to prove it happened. Let's stop shifting the burden of proof away from where it belongs.

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Response to Blue Bike (Reply #23)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 03:49 PM

25. Uh, he did commit a crime by stealing govt property.

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:49 PM

24. Is Judith Miller back on the pay roll at the NYT?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #24)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 03:55 PM

26. Exactly

I was waiting for the proclamation that Snowden has acquired aluminum tubes and yellowcake

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Response to LondonReign2 (Reply #26)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 04:13 PM

29. Hahahaha!

 

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 04:22 PM

30. and you can trust the Chinese and Russians on that

funny how people here are talking about hastings car being blown up, how our govt is spying on everyone and other shit.

but they easily believe the chinese and russians wouldn't do anything .

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Response to Blue Bike (Original post)

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 04:37 PM

31. Because Snowden never leaks and China and Russia never spy or steal secrets.

And Glenn "America is a lawless rogue empire" Greenwald gives a shit if Russia and China got all that information why? I don't see a single reason to trust any of the players in this scenario.

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