Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

cantbeserious

(13,039 posts)
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 06:03 AM Jul 2013

The NSA Has Inserted Its Code Into Android OS - SmartPhones

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-09/nsa-has-inserted-its-code-android-os-bugging-three-quarters-all-smartphones

Over a decade ago, it was discovered that the NSA embedded backdoor access into Windows 95, and likely into virtually all other subsequent internet connected, desktop-based operating systems. However, with the passage of time, more and more people went "mobile", and as a result the NSA had to adapt. And adapt they have: as Bloomberg reports, "The NSA is quietly writing code for Google’s Android OS."

Is it ironic that the same "don't be evil" Google which went to such great lengths in the aftermath of the Snowden scandal to wash its hands of snooping on its customers and even filed a request with the secretive FISA court asking permission to disclose more information about the government’s data requests, is embedding NSA code into its mobile operating system, which according to IDC runs on three-quarters of all smartphones shipped in the first quarter? Yes, yes it is.

Google spokeswoman Gina Scigliano confirms that the company has already inserted some of the NSA’s programming in Android OS. "All Android code and contributors are publicly available for review at source.android.com." Scigliano says, declining to comment further.

Snip ...

Is the NSA code malevolent? That is unknown.
56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The NSA Has Inserted Its Code Into Android OS - SmartPhones (Original Post) cantbeserious Jul 2013 OP
more NineNightsHanging Jul 2013 #1
So many lies, so little time. What is it all for? sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #2
That is an excellent point so the NSA has access who else also has access? gordianot Jul 2013 #3
Huh? It's open source. The community reviewed it and accepted it Recursion Jul 2013 #16
Money? Ha! Android is a "forked" Linux. mwooldri Jul 2013 #11
You're free to read the code NSA added yourself Recursion Jul 2013 #15
Apple ok so far. Yay! dkf Jul 2013 #4
Good for Apple Chemisse Jul 2013 #7
“Apple (AAPL) does not accept source code from any government agencies for any of our operating Heywood J Jul 2013 #10
uh ... nope. mwooldri Jul 2013 #13
OK here's my question... Volaris Jul 2013 #23
Apple has Darwin, so you can see most of the code Recursion Jul 2013 #25
Darwin is the basis of MacOSX. Not iOS. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2013 #37
Yes, I thought dkf was talking about OS X. (nt) Recursion Jul 2013 #40
You describe open source software jeff47 Jul 2013 #38
Great reply to Volaris... thanks... also... forking... mwooldri Jul 2013 #44
Thats what I was looking for, thanks jeff47=) Volaris Jul 2013 #48
Apple is closed source, so we have no idea Recursion Jul 2013 #17
Also, the Apple quote is false Recursion Jul 2013 #20
You really, really do not know what you're talking about on this issue. jeff47 Jul 2013 #36
Why? East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #5
k&r for exposure. n/t Laelth Jul 2013 #6
Exposure of a contribution that was publicly added 10 years ago? Recursion Jul 2013 #19
Thanks for kicking this, I guess. Laelth Jul 2013 #21
It irks me because this is a great contribution by the NSA Recursion Jul 2013 #22
But - malevolent is such a bendy word...... djean111 Jul 2013 #8
Umm, guys? a2liberal Jul 2013 #9
Have you ever read Theo's complaints about SEL? Recursion Jul 2013 #14
No, I hadn't seen it a2liberal Jul 2013 #49
Thanks for that dose of reason. The Zh story is scaremongering kenny blankenship Jul 2013 #24
Most ironically, SEL is designed to prevent a Snowden-like situation Recursion Jul 2013 #26
"platform of choice for Internet" ...now you've done it. You have leaked vital information... L0oniX Jul 2013 #29
Thanks for the info. bunnies Jul 2013 #28
you can read the code yourself if you want Recursion Jul 2013 #12
Does your hat fit well? rtracey Jul 2013 #18
They also "suggested" changes to the DES encryption algorithm.. sir pball Jul 2013 #27
Schneier's coverage of that story in "Modern Cryptography" is very good Recursion Jul 2013 #30
The development of the Internet was funded by the Department of Defense FarCenter Jul 2013 #31
More evidence, as if more was needed... randome Jul 2013 #32
So there is some working code in Android OS after all... n/t winter is coming Jul 2013 #33
What, you think Angry Birds just runs itself? randome Jul 2013 #34
This article is extremely stupid and ill-informed. jeff47 Jul 2013 #35
Thank You For Your Faith In The NSA - We Hope It Is Not Misplaced cantbeserious Jul 2013 #39
Good job doing #1. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2013 #41
I Thank You For Recognizing My Concern For Your Welfare cantbeserious Jul 2013 #42
What part of "Everyone can read the "NSA code" and see what it does." Dont you get? TampaAnimusVortex Jul 2013 #43
Thank You For Expressing Your Faith In Technologists - Might The Government Be A Bit Trickier cantbeserious Jul 2013 #45
'Code' is not the same as 'magic'. randome Jul 2013 #46
Thank You For The Education - My Feeble Mind Is Just Not As Trusting As Others cantbeserious Jul 2013 #47
k&r avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #50
NSA code is running on my machine and I know what it is. napoleon_in_rags Jul 2013 #51
Thank You For Sharing - Let's Hope That Your Confidence Is Warranted cantbeserious Jul 2013 #52
I'm not confident the phones aren't hacked... napoleon_in_rags Jul 2013 #53
Thank You For The Insight - The Public Code May Be A Misdirection cantbeserious Jul 2013 #54
Oh for Christ's sake Recursion Jul 2013 #55
Thank You For Sharing Your Angst - Apologies For Any Frustrations - Some See Things Differently cantbeserious Jul 2013 #56
 
1. more
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 06:07 AM
Jul 2013
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-spying-flap-extends-to-contents-of-u.s-phone-calls/


Earlier reports have indicated that the NSA has the ability to record nearly all domestic and international phone calls -- in case an analyst needed to access the recordings in the future. A Wired magazine article last year disclosed that the NSA has established "listening posts" that allow the agency to collect and sift through billions of phone calls through a massive new data center in Utah, "whether they originate within the country or overseas." That includes not just metadata, but also the contents of the communications.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
2. So many lies, so little time. What is it all for?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 06:10 AM
Jul 2013

Money, is my theory. Nothing to do with security. THAT is the scandal they are trying to cover up.

gordianot

(15,237 posts)
3. That is an excellent point so the NSA has access who else also has access?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 06:26 AM
Jul 2013

Did they pay to get access? Are they using blackmail and extortion? Sounds like a recipe for chaos.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
16. Huh? It's open source. The community reviewed it and accepted it
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:03 AM
Jul 2013

It's a module that allows for better security auditing.

mwooldri

(10,303 posts)
11. Money? Ha! Android is a "forked" Linux.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 08:52 AM
Jul 2013

With this, unlike Proprietary Software like MS Windows, anyone can contribute code. Peer review means that there are many people looking at that code... if there is any malware in there the Android Community will spot it, as is the case with Linux.

I for one am not concerned. The NSA even had a Linux distribution at one point with their code in it. With Proprietary software, I don't have that confidence because I can't see in.

Oh, and Linux is free (as in beer) - Android is too.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
15. You're free to read the code NSA added yourself
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:02 AM
Jul 2013

It's a bit dated at this point (10 years old) and there have been some developments in security philosophy since then, but it's good stuff.

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
4. Apple ok so far. Yay!
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 06:30 AM
Jul 2013

Apple appears to be immune from this unprecedented breach of customer loyalty, if only for now, although open-sourced Linux may not be as lucky:

“Apple (AAPL) does not accept source code from any government agencies for any of our operating systems or other products,” says Kristin Huguet, a spokeswoman for the company. It’s not known if any other proprietary operating systems are using NSA code. SE for Android is an offshoot of a long-running NSA project called Security-Enhanced Linux. That code was integrated a decade ago into the main version of the open-source operating system, the server platform of choice for Internet leaders including Google, Facebook (FB), and Yahoo! (YHOO). Jeff Zemlin, the executive director of the Linux Foundation, says the NSA didn’t add any obvious means of eavesdropping. “This code was peer-reviewed by a lot of people,” he says.

From OPs link

Chemisse

(30,809 posts)
7. Good for Apple
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 07:24 AM
Jul 2013

It's amazing all the other companies sold us out so readily. Although I suppose, in addition to a bundle of cash, they were given assurances that the public would never know.

Heywood J

(2,515 posts)
10. “Apple (AAPL) does not accept source code from any government agencies for any of our operating
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 08:45 AM
Jul 2013

systems or other products,”

Because we review every line of code out of tens of millions inserted by "our employees" or those with back doors into our servers. Anyone who thinks they've escaped from this stuff isn't looking hard enough.

mwooldri

(10,303 posts)
13. uh ... nope.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 08:57 AM
Jul 2013

Apple: closed system where you can not see all the code. Who knows what is in that Apple device code? However when you have the NSA, and government agencies in other countries reviewing the same code (as well as professionals and hobbyists) then I have more assurance. Android - same way.

Volaris

(10,270 posts)
23. OK here's my question...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:59 AM
Jul 2013

What if all code for all operating systems were required to be open, but read-only? That way, we could know what's actually IN THERE, but it couldnt be altered by a third-party without permission from whoever wrote the code in the first place. If that were the case, I would be a hell of a lot more likely to trust an Apple or a Google when they tell me stuff like this...

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
25. Apple has Darwin, so you can see most of the code
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:24 AM
Jul 2013

Windows will let you see their code if you get a very expensive bond.

Personally, I only run software I can audit, but that's more because I do a lot of debugging and need that than it is out of principle.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
38. You describe open source software
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:51 PM
Jul 2013

Changes from third parties are not automatically added to open source software. The people running the project review the changes and add them if appropriate.

Also, your proposal would not work at all for closed-source software. Because you can still compile the "read-only" copy into a fully functioning operating system. The reason companies stay closed-source is to avoid that.

mwooldri

(10,303 posts)
44. Great reply to Volaris... thanks... also... forking...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:07 PM
Jul 2013

that's the wonderful thing about open source. If some people working on an open source software project disagree with the direction the project is going, they're free to split and continue the development of the project their way - hence forking. You can't do that with Windows, or iOS. OSX has some open source parts (BSD, FreeBSD) but an awful lot is closed off and proprietary.

As for SE Linux, it's not a specific distribution, but patches available for the Linux kernel - introduced around 2000-2003. Some Linux distributions have SE Linux in their kernels, others don't. Red Hat Linux (later Fedora) has SE Linux in it... and Red Flag Linux is a fork off of Red Hat Linux (Red Flag Linux - Chinese govt. distro), as would be Red Star OS (N Korean Linux distro). I'm sure their guys have gone through all the patches to ensure the NSA doesn't have a back door and maybe install one of their own.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
17. Apple is closed source, so we have no idea
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:05 AM
Jul 2013

The NSA's contributions to Linux and Android are available for anyone to read.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
20. Also, the Apple quote is false
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:09 AM
Jul 2013

Their code base contains code written by the University of California at Berkeley.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
36. You really, really do not know what you're talking about on this issue.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:47 PM
Jul 2013

If you're worried about secret malevolent code, you want open source software. Because everyone can read the source code and find that malevolent code.

Proprietary operating systems can hide whatever they want in their software.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
19. Exposure of a contribution that was publicly added 10 years ago?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:08 AM
Jul 2013
it's a decent security subsystem, but too heavy for 99% of users.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
21. Thanks for kicking this, I guess.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:10 AM
Jul 2013

I wasn't aware of this, and I suspect I am not alone in that. If it's old news to you, then I bow to your superior knowledge.

-Laelth

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
22. It irks me because this is a great contribution by the NSA
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:28 AM
Jul 2013

and I don't like seeing it talked down.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
8. But - malevolent is such a bendy word......
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 08:14 AM
Jul 2013

Whose watch?
Who benefits?
If you are not doing anything wrong, why worry?
Who gets to decide what is wrong, what is a pattern, etc.?
Who gets swept up into a net via idle curiosity, wrong numbers, using keywords in jest, doing a little research on a passingly interesting news story, not knowing that one's friend is being investigated because they made 100 copies of a school flyer for their child, registered as Independent or Green - possibilities are endless.
What's the answer? Demand changes? Everyone use a keyword in every conversation, rendering classification meaningless?
Now that we are cognizant of this stuff, will that make it moot, in a way? Once a person knows they are being watched, their behavior changes, IMO, and negates the watching.

a2liberal

(1,524 posts)
9. Umm, guys?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 08:37 AM
Jul 2013

I'm as anti-NSA-spying as anyone (seriously, check my recs and comment history), but SELinux (and its counterpart SE for Android) are no spying tools. They are ways to make Linux (and Android) "more secure&quot *) by adding privilege lists for users and actions beyond the traditional Unix permissions system. As stated in the article (and shrugged off dismissively for some reason), this code has been reviewed by many many people, and you can go review it yourself. Just because an agency does bad things doesn't mean everything they do is bad.

And for those saying Apple is better just because they claim they don't have any NSA code, keep in mind that nobody can verify what Apple says because it's all closed-source. With open source everybody can check. With closed-source you're relying on what the company is telling you, because companies are soooo trustworthy and can't be coerced by the government to lie....

(*) I actually hate SELinux because I think it's overkill, makes systems difficult to use when fully enabled, and doesn't actually provide much more security above properly-configured regular permissions, but that's a technical debate that I've had on the local LUG mailing list. Not because of some FUD spying concern.

a2liberal

(1,524 posts)
49. No, I hadn't seen it
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:22 PM
Jul 2013

went looking for it now and didn't find anything that Theo was involved in... http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/openbsd-misc/2007/9/22/272545" target="_blank">this is the closest I found. Thanks for the heads-up, that was an interesting read. Let me know if there was something else too

kenny blankenship

(15,689 posts)
24. Thanks for that dose of reason. The Zh story is scaremongering
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:21 AM
Jul 2013

People are understandably suspicious of anything attached to or originating in the NSA. But while on the one hand the NSA is tasked now by whoever actually runs the USA to spy on every intimate detail of citizen's lives via signals intelligence, it also has legitimate tasks of keeping an eye on foreign governments and non-state actors who represent a threat to our nation. It also has the task of trying to shore up the cyber security infrastructure of the US government and US based corporations. This is the kind of work it is supposed to be doing. Not everything they're tasked with is sinister - at least from the vantage of the interests of US citizens. Unfortunately the other shit they have been told to do overshadows their legitimate work and calls it into question.

Code contributions by NSA to an open source system like Linux and derivatives like Android are going to be scrutinized over and over by Linux developers as well as developers of rival systems, as well as by security experts not part of any OS devel team. Whitehat hackers will be suspicious of it and poke at it and kick it from every angle to find the suspected backdoor. It will be examined by researchers in university comp sci departments around the whole world.

from the fearmongering article:
SE for Android is an offshoot of a long-running NSA project called Security-Enhanced Linux. That code was integrated a decade ago into the main version of the open-source operating system*, the server platform of choice for Internet leaders including Google, (etc, etc)...


and I'll add to that list of critical internet infrastructure that runs on Linux-
the Godalmighty NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE, along with a great many trading house systems that interface with the NYSE. The ability to launch a successful cyber-attack on the NYSE would relieve a hostile power of the need and expense to build a nuclear arsenal competitive with the US.

...just to make it clear for all how the NSA would have a legit interest and role in making sure Linux as used by big corporations sourcing it from vendors like HP have security enhancements of the sort already developed for big government UNIX systems.

*Although few Linux installations will actually have SE extensions to the OS present or enabled.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
26. Most ironically, SEL is designed to prevent a Snowden-like situation
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:27 AM
Jul 2013

Since the theory is to remove a single super privileged operator from the mix.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
29. "platform of choice for Internet" ...now you've done it. You have leaked vital information...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:18 AM
Jul 2013

that will hurt MicroSux.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
12. you can read the code yourself if you want
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 08:56 AM
Jul 2013

That's the beauty of open source. NSA made some epic contributions to Linux already. And they didn't install "back doors" in Windows, they and a few thousand other vendors installed keys that verify the operating system to software. Nobody requires malware to verify on the client side.

 

rtracey

(2,062 posts)
18. Does your hat fit well?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:05 AM
Jul 2013

Does your aluminum foal hat fit? The spy network of our government has been spying on us for decades, why now is everyone so up in arms about it. We choose to live in an internet, quick access, get it now, 24 hour a day world, and this living situation calls for different and changing security measures. If the spying from the NSA bothers you, why aren't you pissed at the fact that private companies are spying on you too, watching your every move, recording your every key stroke. If not, then how did Golf Galaxy know I wanted the new Nike driver, or how did Adobe know I looked at the new CC software. NSA does have a chip in all new phones... IT'S CALLED GPS.... they can spy on anyone at anytime, and we all know it, so just tilt the hat to the left and smile...

sir pball

(4,741 posts)
27. They also "suggested" changes to the DES encryption algorithm..
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:32 AM
Jul 2013

..at the time there was bad noise about the alterations being a weakening or an outright "backdoor", but it turns out the NSA (and IBM) had secretly discovered an entirely new type of attack and were actually strengthening the cipher:

There was some criticism from various parties, including from public-key cryptography pioneers Martin Hellman and Whitfield Diffie, citing a shortened key length and the mysterious "S-boxes" as evidence of improper interference from the NSA. The suspicion was that the algorithm had been covertly weakened by the intelligence agency so that they — but no-one else — could easily read encrypted messages. Alan Konheim (one of the designers of DES) commented, "We sent the S-boxes off to Washington. They came back and were all different."
-------
Some of the suspicions about hidden weaknesses in the S-boxes were allayed in 1990, with the independent discovery and open publication by Eli Biham and Adi Shamir of differential cryptanalysis, a general method for breaking block ciphers. The S-boxes of DES were much more resistant to the attack than if they had been chosen at random, strongly suggesting that IBM knew about the technique in the 1970s. This was indeed the case; in 1994, Don Coppersmith published some of the original design criteria for the S-boxes… Bruce Schneier observed that "It took the academic community two decades to figure out that the NSA 'tweaks' actually improved the security of DES."
ref

It's not like the NSA is making changes to the binaries, that would be difficult to figure out even with sophisticated tools and knowledge - it's open changes to the code; I'm reserving judgement until I see an analysis of what it is and what it does but logically and historically it's likely to be at least benign if not outright positive. The spooks have the resources to do their dirty work behind the scenes, without having to insert obfuscated code (which is harder than it sounds) into the repository.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
30. Schneier's coverage of that story in "Modern Cryptography" is very good
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:21 AM
Jul 2013

Though I'm more of a fan of Blowfish.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
32. More evidence, as if more was needed...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:08 PM
Jul 2013

...that much of the divide on DU is between those lacking knowledge of technology and those who are steeped in it.

I am not as knowledgeable of the details as some of the posters on this thread are but I know enough to recognize when something sounds authentic and when it sounds like bullshit.

The 'NSA has back doors into everything!' claim has always been bullshit.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"
[/center][/font]
[hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
34. What, you think Angry Birds just runs itself?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:12 PM
Jul 2013

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"
[/center][/font]
[hr]

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
35. This article is extremely stupid and ill-informed.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:42 PM
Jul 2013

The NSA has two branches.

One branch does the spying. The other branch prevents spying on the US. And this information is so hard to find that it's on the NSA's fucking home page on the Internet.

That second branch has written all sorts of enhancements to the Linux operating system, distributed as SE Linux. It makes the operating system much more secure. They're doing the same kind of thing for Android.

As for "Is the NSA code malevolent? That is unknown.", that is extremely, extremely stupid. Android is open source. Everyone can read the "NSA code" and see what it does. So either everyone is part of a vast NSA conspiracy, or it's not malevolent.


If you are going to criticize the government, you have two choices:

1) Decide what parts are "evil" based entirely on what you vaguely remember hearing from anecdotes, and then scream loudly about your position.

2) Take the time to find out what is actually going on, and then have rational discussions about it.

Republicans chose #1. It used to be Democrats mostly chose #2. It looks like that isn't the case anymore.

TampaAnimusVortex

(785 posts)
43. What part of "Everyone can read the "NSA code" and see what it does." Dont you get?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:01 PM
Jul 2013

How many coders out there would love to become famous and make a name for themselves by exposing malicious code designed to spy on everyone that was "hidden in plain view".

You might as well just edit that word "faith" out of your last comment, because it doesn't take faith if one is a coder... All it takes a pair of eyes.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
46. 'Code' is not the same as 'magic'.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:15 PM
Jul 2013

There are probably tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands?) of Android coders who have looked at that code and understand what it does.

It's like the heating elements in your microwave oven. You don't need to understand how they work but it's pretty obvious they do.

There is nothing 'tricky' about code any more than there is something 'tricky' about a hammer.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"
[/center][/font]
[hr]

napoleon_in_rags

(3,991 posts)
51. NSA code is running on my machine and I know what it is.
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:45 AM
Jul 2013

NSA contributes to open source projects, which isnt the same as backdoors. This particular thing may not be as scary as it sounds...

napoleon_in_rags

(3,991 posts)
53. I'm not confident the phones aren't hacked...
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:28 AM
Jul 2013

But I'm pretty confident that if they are, the publicly reviewed code NSA contributed to Android/Linux isn't to blame. I suspect the method would be sneakier than that.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The NSA Has Inserted Its ...