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Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:51 AM

‘Chinese government managed to drain contents of four laptops Snowden brought to Hong Kong’

Mr. Snowden has denied giving China classified documents and said he had spoken only to journalists. But his public statements, directly and to reporters, have contained intelligence information of great interest to China.

Two Western intelligence experts, who worked for major government spy agencies, said they believed that the Chinese government had managed to drain the contents of the four laptops that Mr. Snowden said he brought to Hong Kong, and that he said were with him during his stay at a Hong Kong hotel.

If that were the case, they said, China would no longer need or want to have Mr. Snowden remain in Hong Kong.

............

In some instances, the Chinese news media made snide references to what it called the gap between how the United States portrayed itself, and what the United States practiced. “Washington must be grinding its teeth because Snowden’s revelations have almost overturned the image of the U.S. as the defender of a free Internet,” Global Times, which often reflects the official point of view, wrote in an editorial.



....


more:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world/asia/china-said-to-have-made-call-to-let-leaker-depart.html?_r=0

67 replies, 8299 views

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Reply ‘Chinese government managed to drain contents of four laptops Snowden brought to Hong Kong’ (Original post)
kpete Jun 2013 OP
jsr Jun 2013 #1
Narkos Jun 2013 #2
Downwinder Jun 2013 #5
Narkos Jun 2013 #7
cthulu2016 Jun 2013 #3
backscatter712 Jun 2013 #19
flamingdem Jun 2013 #22
RobertEarl Jun 2013 #4
Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #6
flamingdem Jun 2013 #13
pnwmom Jun 2013 #31
Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #60
sibelian Jun 2013 #41
HipChick Jun 2013 #8
jsr Jun 2013 #21
Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #9
flamingdem Jun 2013 #11
Monkie Jun 2013 #32
marions ghost Jun 2013 #45
flamingdem Jun 2013 #14
JimDandy Jun 2013 #16
flamingdem Jun 2013 #17
JimDandy Jun 2013 #18
flamingdem Jun 2013 #20
JimDandy Jun 2013 #23
flamingdem Jun 2013 #24
davidpdx Jun 2013 #33
flamingdem Jun 2013 #10
treestar Jun 2013 #12
Monkie Jun 2013 #30
davidpdx Jun 2013 #34
animato Jun 2013 #15
cui bono Jun 2013 #25
IDemo Jun 2013 #47
cui bono Jun 2013 #62
madville Jun 2013 #26
randome Jun 2013 #39
jsr Jun 2013 #44
Skidmore Jun 2013 #46
Pale Blue Dot Jun 2013 #58
Recursion Jun 2013 #55
mhatrw Jun 2013 #27
Recursion Jun 2013 #28
flamingdem Jun 2013 #48
Recursion Jun 2013 #49
flamingdem Jun 2013 #50
Recursion Jun 2013 #51
flamingdem Jun 2013 #54
frylock Jun 2013 #66
Catherina Jun 2013 #29
davidpdx Jun 2013 #35
Babel_17 Jun 2013 #36
Berlum Jun 2013 #37
cali Jun 2013 #38
NoPasaran Jun 2013 #40
jberryhill Jun 2013 #43
treestar Jun 2013 #59
sibelian Jun 2013 #42
Skip Intro Jun 2013 #52
cantbeserious Jun 2013 #53
ConcernedCanuk Jun 2013 #61
cantbeserious Jun 2013 #67
kentuck Jun 2013 #56
Pale Blue Dot Jun 2013 #57
Marrah_G Jun 2013 #63
ProSense Jun 2013 #64
DevonRex Jun 2013 #65

Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:53 AM

1. How?

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Response to jsr (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:57 AM

2. Gee Wally, how do u think?

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Response to jsr (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:58 AM

5. Through NSA's back door. You think?

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:03 AM

7. Wow, that was clever

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:58 AM

3. The two sources should have names

Somehow "Two Western intelligence experts, who worked for major government spy agencies" isn't doing much for me.

Bonus source-confidence points for the past-tense. "Worked."

Could be David Petreus.

Could be some guy with a blog who used to be a janitor at whatever Belgium calls its spy organization.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #3)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:46 AM

19. +1! The OP is nothing but propaganda.

All I see are FAUX Noise style "Some people say..." insinuations.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #19)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:51 AM

22. You don't know that for sure

it might be true.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:58 AM

4. Hah!

Those computers were full of viruses and the Chinese kicked him out because of that. Now Chinese computers have American NSA viruses running wild in their country. Obama sure played that move well. Russia is next!

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #4)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:01 AM

6. This lends credence to the theory that Snowden is actually a US agent

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #6)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:22 AM

13. I wish you were right.

I think he's an idiot who got caught up by the likes of Greenwald and Assange.

He was manipulated into this act and was too naive to have an exit plan.

I'm still finding this hard to believe though. That means the whole thing in HK
was a setup.

Greenwald has some 'splainin to do as well as the HK authority.

An incredible web of lies and deceit.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #6)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 05:02 AM

31. A US agent?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #31)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:16 PM

60. Yep

The theory being Snowden is actually a CIA plant, giving China and Russia a bunch of bogus information and viruses.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #6)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:40 AM

41. Well I think that idea would sort of depend more on how credulous you are in general.


Not really sure what the assertion deos other than make nasty feelings go away.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:03 AM

8. How to drain a hard drive...

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Response to HipChick (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:49 AM

21. He's screwed. The hard drives are empty now.

The Chinese just used his password "Edward" to open his laptops and drained all the documents away.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:05 AM

9. And now I'm sure the Russians are draining that information.

Well done, Hong Kong Eddie.

Well. Fucking. Done.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:15 AM

11. Hong Kong Eddie, what a winner

He didn't have his lovely Wikileaks lawyer then when he was making faustian bargains.

I wonder just what was lost should this be true. It may be Psyops as well to pressure Russia

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #11)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 05:05 AM

32. weasel words from the NYT that covered up the warrantless wiretapping for bush

 

really pathetic of the NYT, and quite sad that any "democrat" would be enjoying this.
and your "happy" "funny" jingoism is quite disgusting. hong kong eddie? thats something i would expect to see in a propaganda movie from the 1950's, you know, the "golden age" in the US when races where still segregated?
what next? you want people of asian origin on separate busses?

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Response to Monkie (Reply #32)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:54 AM

45. EXACTLY!

jingoistic movies & serials circa 1950's...(which some people seem stuck in):

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:23 AM

14. Yes, I guess I was right about the Lil' Red Riding

Snowden, jeez

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:37 AM

16. 2 intelligence agents "believe"

the Chinese drained the hard drives on 4 laptops that belong to Snowden?

Intelligence agents' jobs is to gather facts and evidence. It's absurd that any bona fide agent would go around spouting "beliefs" instead of info backed by factual knowledge.

I'll wait to see if any reliable source provides proof, first of all that Snowden took 4 laptops with him (Why do that instead of storing info on easily carried thumb drives or even removable gigabyte hard drives?), and secondly that China "drained" the laptops (again ridiculous-they would simply copy the files, not drain the drives).

I believe the government is collecting all U.S. citizen's phone call content. No proof, but I believe it, so it must be true.

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #16)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:38 AM

17. They're stating the obvious. The Chinese hosted him, the Chinese called the shots

the Chinese held his life in their hands, the Chinese gave the word for him to leave.

The Chinese want what's on those laptops and he's a sitting duck.

Same with the Russians.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #17)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:45 AM

18. Ridiculous speculation.

If they have proof, then show it. Otherwise they are behaving like rank amateurs. How embarassing for their agency and them.

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #18)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:47 AM

20. I think it's valid speculation but it's also likely to be

a PsyOp because the US is between a rock and a hard place.

The pressure has to be extreme for Russia > Cuba > Ecuador to not occur.

Snowden has a refugee status visa and he can move anywhere anyway.

Wikileaks does know a thing or two.

I hope this works for them, it's as true as it's not.

We just don't know what happened or who Snowden is for sure

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #20)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:57 AM

23. If this is what passes for intelligence

or PsyOps, those "western" intelligence agencies are in trouble.

We'll just have to disagree until more info is available.

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #23)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 02:00 AM

24. yeah, granted it's a bit obvious

but it's a rush job!

Does seem like Snowden took them by surprise by moving quickly.
He had the benefit of lots of pre-planning and Assange's lawyers.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #20)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 05:18 AM

33. I believe I heard he is going through Venezuela as well

The unholy alliance

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:13 AM

10. Favorite article title of the night: Snowden se convierte en Papa Caliente

Snowden turns into a Hot Potato

China isn't going to respect his rights and they set him up at that hotel.
Was he awake the whole time? Did China know how to intimidate him?

Having worked at the NYT I'd say that this stinks of psy ops against Snowden but it's also
very likely to be true.

quote:
Two Western intelligence experts, who worked for major government spy agencies, said they believed that the Chinese government had managed to drain the contents of the four laptops that Mr. Snowden said he brought to Hong Kong, and that he said were with him during his stay at a Hong Kong hotel.

If that were the case, they said, China would no longer need or want to have Mr. Snowden remain in Hong Kong.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:15 AM

12. Like they have free internet in China

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Response to treestar (Reply #12)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 04:59 AM

30. pots and kettles, there is no high ground when neck deep in the swamp

 

seriously, how jingoistic can one be?
"you" are neck deep in the swamp, there is NO high ground the US or any citizen of the US can stand on when commenting on the affairs of other nations on any subject.
if "those days" existed they are long gone.

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Response to treestar (Reply #12)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 05:20 AM

34. They don't

I lived there for 9 months and had to buy a VPN service and even with that it still was spotty. People could still get around the great firewall of China and many of my students had a good idea what was going on in the world as well as the actions of their own country.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:31 AM

15. k and r

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 04:02 AM

25. "Drained", meaning emptied, as in his HDD are now all empty?

Not likely.

And two intelligence officers say they believe... How vague can they be? Seems like this is another attempt to make Snowden look like an idiot and discredit him.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #25)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 10:13 AM

47. The disks were removed from the drives

and carefully Xeroxed.

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Response to IDemo (Reply #47)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 02:15 PM

62. OMG. That's what happened to me!

I xeroxed my face as a teen but I didn't realize it would drain it! Mystery solved.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 04:09 AM

26. Why carry around four laptops

When a few flash drives would fit in one's pocket? Or a couple of external hard drives? Why carry around four laptops?

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Response to madville (Reply #26)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:28 AM

39. Maybe they weren't his laptops to begin with?

Maybe he simply made off with some NSA equipment he could get his hands on.



You should never stop having childhood dreams.


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Response to madville (Reply #26)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:44 AM

44. Well, everyone knows it takes 4 laptops to hold the weight of 200 documents

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2013/06/flight_to_cuba_booked_for_edwa.html
Snowden has perhaps more than 200 sensitive documents, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said on CBS' "Face the Nation."

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Response to jsr (Reply #44)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 10:04 AM

46. According to Greenwald, Snowden has turned over "thousands" of documents.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/greenwald-snowden-knows-he-s-going-to-end

I don't see why it is so improbable that he has many more documents that Feinstein has said. I imagine he has quite a bit of information packed on those drives.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #46)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:55 PM

58. Thousands of documents fit on my laptop. Nt

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Response to madville (Reply #26)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:50 PM

55. Some documents can only be accessed by given computers in given locations

That's obviously, not foolproof, as this demonstrates (it's ultimately not a good strategy to try to limit clients' actions with data they already have), but it can make sneaking big dumps of documents out harder. The fact that Iraq's situation made that level of security impractical made life easier for Manning, for instance.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 04:11 AM

27. Drained all the way down the intertubes right into the skeptic tank! n/t

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 04:12 AM

28. "Drain"?



I see the NYT is always on the job...

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Response to Recursion (Reply #28)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:38 PM

48. Really?? You don't realize this is metaphor?

They aren't being literal y'know

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #48)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:41 PM

49. In 20 years of tech work that's a metaphor I've never heard for file transfers

And not a particularly good one. That makes it sound like the data is now no longer on the four laptops.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #49)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:43 PM

50. Oh c'mon that's a perfectly useful term to use to describe that action

They're not going to do geek speak to keep some people happy

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #50)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:46 PM

51. Since the "intelligence experts" are sourced anonymously, the words they use are all I have to go on

The media has a bad habit of believing what people claiming to be experts tell them. After misunderstanding it.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #51)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:47 PM

54. well I agree that the experts do sound bogus

how conveeenient!

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #50)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 03:00 PM

66. it's a perfectly promulent term

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 04:46 AM

29. This is really lame, even for the already lame NYT n/t

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 05:23 AM

35. The truth is with the information outside the US

we don't know who has how much of the information nor what it is. If it is on a laptop it is unsecured data.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:18 AM

36. "believe"?

Has it come to this, The New York Times? Intelligence experts don't reveal what they have reason to think, but rather their beliefs?

Ask them what they believe is the future of the USA, what they believe is the future of humanity.

Then ask them about their reasoned opinions thereof.

Guess what, it would be no surprise that these experts think Snowden is a stinking traitor. Thus they believe the worst. But The New York Times has an obligation to ask them for a basis for their belief.

Unless they are just repeating talking points, then they are doing a fine job.

This is regardless of what turns out to be the case. The New York Times, once again, is all too eager to be a partner of whoever is in power in Washington.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:20 AM

37. Thanks a pant load, Snowdumb

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:21 AM

38. so these experts believe this based on what?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:28 AM

40. Four laptops?

So in addition to everything else this fucker had too much carry on luggage?

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Response to NoPasaran (Reply #40)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:36 AM

43. And each one had to go in a separate bin

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Response to NoPasaran (Reply #40)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:56 PM

59. lol

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:42 AM

42. Were they poledancing at the time?


Did they siphon the information out through their opium pipes?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:46 PM

52. According to "two Western intelligence experts..." Oh, ok then.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:47 PM

53. All Unsubstantiated Allegations

eom

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #53)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 02:15 PM

61. USA don't need real evidence.

 

.
.
.

They'll bomb the shit out of any country they feel like.

Hasn't anyone noticed??

CC

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Response to ConcernedCanuk (Reply #61)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 03:06 PM

67. Too True - Agree Completely

eom

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:53 PM

56. propaganda war

Russians think the Chinese got something they did not and Chinese think the Russia might have gotten something they did not???? Americans think both of them got something. It's like liar's poker....

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:54 PM

57. And their proof? How do they know?

Are the Chinese that stupid?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 02:21 PM

63. Guessing done by intelligence experts, written to sound like fact

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 02:27 PM

64. The problem with defending Snowden.

The problem with defending Snowden.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023083768

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 02:30 PM

65. Of course they did.

They probably wiped them clean unless it was to their benefit that he give other content to Russia. If Russia thinks Greenwald has copies he needs to be looking over his shoulder.

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