Bob Schieffer destroys himself. Can't remember history. Pimps ad hominem illogic.

[KurtNYC]

Bob Schieffer compared the NSA leaker to Rosa Parks and MLK Jr. in a disgusting display of stupidity Sunday.

The comparisons are ridiculous on their face and Schieffer should be embarrassed to use dead African American heroes as props in his 'kill the messenger' logical fallacies. But he isn't. Parks and King spoke out and found non-violent ways to oppose racism -- for their actions they became the targets of massive character assassination.

Some very prolific DU posters have spent the last week jumping into every thread to say the same things over and over. To some the NSA revelations are all about the person who started the revelations and, the logic (or lack of) seems to go: if the leaker is not a hero then there is no need to look at what was leaked. Now the ammo for character assassination is running out and more people (Congress critters and ex CIA/NSA types) are confirming the worst of the leaks -- that all your phone calls are recorded and that thousands of private sector analysts have the power to review anyone's communication without much supervision or legal process.

But back to Schieffer -- does Schieffer not recall that both Parks And King were the targets of the same kind of character assassination he is peddling now? Rosa Parks did not initially offer up to reporters that fact that she was connected to the NAACP so it would seem the Schieffers and little wolf packs of 1955 would be calling her "a liar." It was later revealed that another woman had done the same thing 9 months earlier and Parks was deemed more appropriate to be the face of the movement to desegregate buses -- more fodder for the ad hominems to attack her as "a phony" or perhaps "a narcissist". King was hounded by Hoover, linked to communism, racially maligned, and he dressed well so surely...King was a narcissist.

After yesterday's statement I have little doubt that Schieffer would have been among the hordes jumping at a chance to change the subject from institutionalized racism to King and Parks alleged "narcissism" and "lies."

Schieffer could have chosen other historical figures -- Ellsberg, Bradley Manning, even Paul Revere (the famous curfew violator) but that he chose to equate a man he considers a traitor with 2 beloved Civil Rights figures who were also the targets of character assassination is very revealing.

Bob Schieffer has no shame.

[xchrom]

1. du rec.

[graham4anything]

2. -1 wish there was an UNREC button.

[DocMac]

25. I wish there was too!

Then I could UNREC just about everything you post.

[City Lights]

42. Haha.

[graham4anything]

50. My view is not based on 100 others liking me. Its so junior high school ish.

Which is middle school to those outside of the NYC area.\
(or what was that movie Tina Fey wrote? I can't think of the name about cliques.)

[JDPriestly]

110. Don't worry, graham4anything.

Some DUers aren't worth the cost of the surveillance because everything they write supports the status quo and they never, ever dare say anything really original.

Nothing to worry about. Why even waste the time on DU?

I've been wondering that for a long time. Why do those who think everything our government does is hunk-dory no matter who is in office, bother to post on the Democratic UNDERGROUND. And under pseudonyms. They aren't dissidents. They would have nothing to lose by just using their full names. Makes one wonder whether they are just posting to make trouble. Like flies on the neck of a horse.

[graham4anything]

115. Could it be that I was 100% correct and the 80-20 is going to change everything shortly?

IMHO.

and by the way, I don't care what Bob S. says yesterday today or tomorrow.

I stopped caring about CBS when CBS(and Bob S. ) took down Dan Rather (who was almost assssassinated which was made famous
in the song title by REM "what's the frequency dan". He was called crazy, nuts and loco too

But you reminded me, the whole Martha Mapes episode.

What was the name of the husband/wife who passed the REAL INFO memo through?

I had a flashback to that before. I just stone forgot about it.

It's my opinion and I am sticking to it.

Concepts are nice but when there are only two choices, the only options are one or two.

and as with everything else, right now its 50-50.

Maybe we can talk different when the 80-20 is in.
Because I would wager, things would have been a lot different had Nader not been in the 2000 race.

[JDPriestly]

120. No. It could not be.

Have you ever worked for a telephone company? For an internet company?

Whatever the number, 80-20 or 50-50, the facts and the reality remain.

Our government certainly can and probably does do total surveillance. They may only access specific calls or e-documents when they wish, but they can do it, and the probably do. It is just such an easy way to get information about people.

They can't present that information as evidence in a court of law unless they get a warrant, but there is nothing to stop them from accessing the information physically since the information is in the system and they can tap into the system, into the connections that link us all up.

It is naive to think otherwise. And it is naive to think that the government can tap into the system, has a court order requiring the companies holding our electronic information to keep it available for their subpoenas and does not hire private contractors to do it. Maybe by law they aren't allowed to tap into those networks, but who is to prevent them from doing it, who is to even know whether and when they do it?

No one. There is no day-to-day independent oversight on this program. And even if there were, it would be paid by the same government that instituted the program.

And it is naive to think that they have the program and don't use it to snoop as they wish. It would contravene all that we know about human nature. A few people are capable of controlling their curiosity, but most are not.

I once had a boss who advised me that there were secret files at the back of his file cabinet that neither I nor anyone else was allowed to review. I never looked at them although I had to open the door from time to time and although he was out of town and I was alone in the office quite often. I have no idea what was in the files and figured I did not need to know. But I suspect that 95% of people in my position would have peaked sooner or later -- just out of curiosity. It's human nature. If I had been interested in what was in there, who knows whether I would looked?

[IrishAyes]

126. I'll never forgive Nader for that.

[janlyn]

133. wait

I'm confused. I thought the song was( what's the frequency kenneth) and I thought it was based on an incident between Dan Rather and a mentally disturbed man shouting (Kenneth, what's the frequency?) And when did people say Dan Rather was crazy?

[graham4anything]

138. from the first minute it happened. No one believed Dan that it happened

and much later it was found out the man who did it was the one who asssassssinated someone at NBC studios.

The Bush family hated Dan Rather for years and Dan was routinely mocked in the media(mainstream, minor league, and his
co-workers for the most part stabbed him in the back too. (especially the 60 minutes cast).

and the memo itself was NEVER found to be fake and the info, of course, was true.

Martha got fired, Dan got retired and the media has not been the same since.

[delrem]

140. wtf??

don't know what you're trying to say.
just listing buzzwords? or what?

[Skittles]

111. Mean Gals

wait - she's not Texan - so "Mean Girls"

[IrishAyes]

125. For what it's worth, I admire most of your posts very much.

[Segami]

67. +1

[truebrit71]

69. Hehehehehe! Add me to that thought as well....

[Bradical79]

64. No one is surprised.

[JackRiddler]

89. Yes, it would make an important litmus test...

Any time you failed to unrec something I posted, I'd be able to check just where I had gone wrong.

[graham4anything]

92. as Danny Kaye said in White Christmas, "Oh, the crooner is now the comedian".

White Christmas, were the answer to everything was found inside that movie where Bing said
"everybody has an angle".

without Bing, Duke and Louis, there would be an empty deep vat void of nothing.

[delrem]

141. I can see why you're not bothered by blanket NSA data processing.

No jury would convict you of making any sense at all.

[LondonReign2]

108. Cause man you'd hold the record

[IrishAyes]

124. If you rec something, the button changes to 'undo' if you change your mind.Or am I missing something

Do you mean you wish you could do a thumbs down?

[graham4anything]

154. a thumbs down button one that would give a -1 to a count of a post. You tube videos have both

[SkyDaddy7]

147. Same here!!

It is NOT "character assassination" if it is TRUE!! Something lost on those who are quickly trying to create a mythology around Snowden.

[sibelian]

152. Of course.

Perceptions must be managed.

[KG]

3. yeah, it's like that...

[RevStPatrick]

4. I don't know, I'm kinda with Schieffer on this one.

Rosa Parks didn't slink off to China in 1955.
King's letter was from a MONTGOMERY jail cell, not a Hong Kong hotel room.

I don't really care one whit about what's-his-name, the whistleblower dude.
I care about the info that was released. That's the real story.
However, "I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things" guy had a chance to earn my respect by sticking around and taking his lumps for his actions. But he chose to run TO FUCKING CHINA!!!

Hero-schmero...

[Progressive dog]

6. +1

I'm never sure whether to ignore these people or talk to the wall. Maybe repeating it will help.

Quote from RevStPatrick
"Rosa Parks didn't slink off to China in 1955.
King's letter was from a MONTGOMERY jail cell, not a Hong Kong hotel room.

I don't really care one whit about what's-his-name, the whistleblower dude.
I care about the info that was released. That's the real story.
However, "I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things" guy had a chance to earn my respect by sticking around and taking his lumps for his actions. But he chose to run TO FUCKING CHINA!!!

Hero-schmero..."

[Skittles]

127. sorry, repeating it makes it sound even more ridiculous

regardless of Snowden's intentions or whatever, that comparison is utterly silly

[Progressive dog]

150. It was never a real comparison, the Snowden crowd

put him in a hero category, one that stood up for civil rights at great personal risk.
It is justified to point out real differences.
Making Snowden a civil rights hero trivializes the courage of real heroes.

[Skittles]

156. the "Snowden crowd"

do you even HEAR yourself?

[Progressive dog]

157. Would you rather I said the Snowden-

Greenwald clrowd. I can't hear what I write but I know what I said.

[Skittles]

158. lol

not EVEN worth it

[cali]

8. the comparison is so absurd.

apples and rutabagas

[monmouth3]

21. The comparison is absurd. I think ole Bob's expiration date is way past due..Retire FGS..n/t

[Fuddnik]

68. He should go back to playing golf with his good buddy George W. Bush.

[Segami]

70. I believe he's beginning to ferment.

[Fuddnik]

85. Is that why really old people smell like that?

I should start "ripening" any month now.

[GeorgeGist]

10. Maybe he knew the MLK was assassinated.

[Mojorabbit]

105. Yep. nt

[treestar]

135. Er, no, Eddie is not going to be assassinated

It's delusional to think he'd be anywhere near that category.

[MynameisBlarney]

11. And that...

Is pretty much where I stand.

[East Coast Pirate]

13. So if he allowed himself to be imprisoned for 20 years he'd have your respect?

I don't think he cares. The cat is now out of the bag (public awareness of this). Dogpiling on the messenger serves no purpose.

[RevStPatrick]

33. Yes.

If he allowed himself to be imprisoned for 20 years he'd have my respect.
He would be 100% hero material in my book.

I have no intention of dogpiling on the guy.
I really don't care what he does now.
He released the info, and that's the important part.

But he's not a hero in my book for saying that he doesn't "want to live in a society that does these sort of things" and then escaping to China. Fail!

[JDPriestly]

112. If he were my son, I would want him to go to China.

The US government's tentacles stretch across the earth. I don't think he expects to remain free that long. But from Hong Kong, at least he can tell his truth and we can hear it.

Were he in the US, he would have been silenced by now. I really appreciate knowing what he has told us and seeing the warrant he helped publish.

Hero? Who cares whether he is a hero or not as long as he tells us what we need to know to assess the transparency of our government.

[sibelian]

153. Well, the facts of the story kind of remain the same

Whether you respect him or not.

[zeemike]

20. I think it is a bit more than taking his lumps.

This is not a school yard conflict...his life is at stake, and I don't hold it against anyone who tries to save his own life....especial sense this country could give a shit about him and would whack him at the first opportunity because he told on them for violating the constitution...
Fuck that trying to gain the respect of apologists for illegal activities...it can't be done really because they only respect obedience to authority...

[christx30]

23. +1

There's no way he would have been able to get more information out about this highly immoral program from inside a jail cell. To people that want to know the truth, he's more valuable outside of a jail cell. The government wants him dead or in a cage. That should tell you about their fear. They know he could spill something truly damaging to them.
What he's telling us is just the tip of the iceberg in regards to secret programs. The intelligence community isn't building that huge data center in Utah for their health.

[reusrename]

36. Bwhahahahahahaha

Y'all are funny.

"He could be sending us letters from Gitmo!!!11!1!"

[one_voice]

60. This, 100% this!

[Bradical79]

65. His argument is pretty idiotic

and pretty embarrassing for someone calling himself a journalist. His entire argument is based on fear and ridiculous irrelevant comparisons, and ended with name calling he completely fails to justify.

I think at the very least he made some dumb decisions in how to go public with his info, but calling him a narcissistic coward is quite a stretch based on available info, and pretty sad for someone calling himself a journalist.

[KurtNYC]

74. Was racism on bus lines a SECRET ?!

The whole comparison is absurd. Schieffer advances an absurd comparison and then skewers his own straw man to tell us that the NSA leaker 'is no Rosa Parks.'

[IrishAyes]

128. All these people running around pretending surprise and shock

Remind me of the police captain in Casa Blanca who said he was "shocked to find gambling going on here" (in Rick's place) just before one of Rick's employees approached and said, "Your winnings tonight, sir." Or words to that effect.

Anybody who doesn't know that every country spies on every other country just as much as it can, or thinks the CIA doesn't know exactly where Snowden is any given moment, has been living in a bubble called STUPID. I don't buy into their sudden claims of outrage at all. It's like the GOP's love for the Patriot Act, and then they try to take the moral high ground. That's what's most disgusting.

[timdog44]

83. The story is really two stories.

The whistle blower and what he blew the whistle on.

The more important, of course is the spying, and always has been. What he blew the whistle on has been known for a long time. He just brought it back front and center.

I think the messenger smells to high heaven. Sometime good things can come from the wrong person or for the wrong reason. Whether it was fair or not to make the comparison to Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks, to me makes no difference. He is still not a hero. He has run away to China, or Hong Kong, or wherever. The comparison probably should have been made to Thomas Drake, William Binney, and J. Kirk Wiebe and also to a lady name of Radack. These were heroes. Their names should not be used in the same sentence with the slimey Snowden person. And now he is saying we spy on China? Who the hell does not know that. It is just that that did not need to be said unless he had something real important to say about it. Like he is kissing up to China and telling them that the US spies on them. Duh!!!

[Doctor_J]

116. What does that have to do with the TRUTHS he told?

[delrem]

142. If Snowden hadn't "snuck off" he'd be incommunicado, in solitary,

with a to be determined number to be done on him.

Travelling to Hong Kong gives him a window to explain his story before he's taken out.
In case you haven't noticed, the US is getting increasingly brutal in its methods of taking out dissidents. Obama has accelerated programs already put into high gear by G.W.B.

[HiPointDem]

5. they'll say anything. they all just lie anyway, why expect logic? whores sniffing for money.

the only growth industry we have left.

[cali]

7. bravo. well articulated and thought out. k&r

[Logical]

9. LOL, ok! n-t

[creon]

12. Phillip Agee

Snowden may turn to have a fate similar to the fate of Phillip Agee.

As for Schieffer, he has a right to his opinion.

[IrishAyes]

131. He has a right to his opinion, true

But he does not have a right to publicly disseminate crap, especially from his vaunted and influential post. We're morally responsible to do the best we can. If this is now Schieffer's best, he needs to be replaced.

[99Forever]

14. Bob Schiefferis an...

... insignificant propagandist.

[H2O Man]

15. Recommended.

Well said.

[ProSense]

16. This is

The comparisons are ridiculous on their face and Schieffer should be embarrassed to use dead African American heroes as props in his 'kill the messenger' logical fallacies. But he isn't. Parks and King spoke out and found non-violent ways to oppose racism -- for their actions they became the targets of massive character assassination.

...simply absurd as a rationale for why the comparisons are valid.

[Zorra]

24. Oh for chrissake. If you can't understand the profound legal differences between

civil rights activism and whistle blowing on the most powerful intelligence agency in the world...I don't know what to tell you.

There are only two possible outcomes for Snowden if he is caught: He will be killed, or spend the rest of his life in prison.

What would you choose? Living. dying, or imprisonment for the rest of your life?

Good luck to you.

[ProSense]

28. Please

Oh for chrissake. If you can't understand the profound legal differences between

civil rights activism and whistle blowing on the most powerful intelligence agency in the world...I don't know what to tell you.

There are only two possible outcomes for Snowden if he is caught: He will be killed, or spend the rest of his life in prison.

...spare me the bullshit logic. I mean, a lot of people face prison and they're not compared to MLK and Rosa Parks.

Snowden's release is a pile on to what everyone already knew, and he didn't expose any wrongdoing.

To compare him to two people who fought for years against oppression is utterly disgusting.

"What would you choose? Living. dying, or imprisonment for the rest of your life?"

One think MLK and Rosa Park were not: cowards.

Idiotic crap.

[reusrename]

51. Why do you keep repeating this?

Making up lies about someone in order to call them a liar is a particularly nasty bit of business.

One of the Ten Commandments speaks directly to this subject; "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor," IIRC, or words to that effect.

I have noticed over the years that many "holier than thou" types, such as Judge Roy Moore prefer to abridge this Commandment down to "Thou shalt not bear false witness."

The two are nothing alike, and anyone who cannot see the difference is a really shallow thinker.









For the umpteenth time, Clapper's perjury to the Congress was exposed by Snowden. What Clapper did was a crime under 18 U.S.C. § 1001.

whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully ... makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation ... shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/47/1001

Note the enhanced penalties when the offense involves national security.



So, when someone keeps repeating this statement: "and he didn't expose any wrongdoing" then one must assume that they either lack command of the facts, which could be the case (you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink) or that they have a more sinister motive. YMMV

In any event, if you continue to spam threads with this claim I shall continue to inform you exactly how wrong you are, in ever increasing specificity.

[ProSense]

52. Utter nonsense. n/t

[reusrename]

55. So that's how it is.

This is perhaps the most informative post you have made since I've been reading your stuff.

[Fuddnik]

66. Why do you have to keep repeating every thing?

I feel like I'm seeing double every time I read one of your posts, and the one above it.

And I'm not even drunk.

[ProSense]

37. Edward Snowden

is a coward.

Remember whistleblower Thomas Tamm?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023032225

[Zorra]

41. Yes, we hear that about every whistleblower who does not turn themselves in for

prosecution.

It's a standard silly desperate Third Way Woodchuck meme for anyone who dares expose MIC wrongdoing and doesn't want to spend the rest of their life in prison.

[ProSense]

44. Please

"Yes, we hear that about every whistleblower who does not turn themselves in for prosecution."

...tell me how many whistleblowers fled the country, narrow it down to the last decade.

[reusrename]

56. I will no longer be responding to disruptive post from that member.

Perhaps we should just talk past them, to each other, or something.

[Zoeisright]

93. Gee, how "adult" of you.

[JackRiddler]

90. Right, and there's another thing...

Not only is he not killed or already disappeared into solitary for the next three to five years before they trot him out for the kangaroo court...

He's talking, mofos. Right now. To the world.

[treestar]

136. If the penalty for what he did is really that severe

Might there not be a reason for it?

It's considered possible he could have put the whole country at risk. He claims he was willing to do that to expose something. But then why does he get a pass from the consequences? You want to play with the big boys, then why not take the risks for real?

[Thinkingabout]

17. As far as Snowden being anywhere near the same standard might be wrong but for those who thinks

Snowden has performed a great service to the US has a lot to learn about those who worked so hard to make a difference in equality rights. Rosa Parks and MLK broke laws and did not destroy this nations security. Snowden is no hero, has not performed anything close to the names Schrieffer used in comparison to really heroes who fought for causes. Criminal charges will be forthcoming, if Snowden set himself up to get access to high security information for his cause then this will be a conspiracy and nit the "cause" he claims to be fighting to change. For those who considers Snowden as a hero may be involved in aiding and abetting. Be careful now, all your keystrokes are being collected and your phone calls are being tapped.

[kitt6]

18. Bob Schieffer.

I was wondering what the poor fellow was talking about. You'd have to walk in Rosa and Martin's shoes for that comparison. Not to mention that they were upstanding people.

[KurtNYC]

78. but neither Parks nor King was exposing a secret

Perhaps it was news to the young Bob Schieffer in 1955 but it was in no sense a secret.

And I can't help but think that his injection of race into the current debate is either designed as a bogus wedge, or is the latent expression of his subconscious racism.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

19. There certainly is a broad range of opinion on this story.

[Zorra]

22. Well said. The Revolutionary Idiocracy of the Woodchuck is upon us.

That's exactly right Bob!1!! Elephants are bigger than frogs,
and that means that if Snowden is in hiding to avoid certain prosecution and imprisonment, blanket NSA spying on every American is not only acceptable, but necessary!!1! And furthermore, Snowden can't be a hero, because Rosa Parks never hid out in China. Those silly radical Democrats just don't think the same as we do! Why can't they be SENSIBLE like us!11!

[Thinkingabout]

30. K & R

If this action was taken for the "cause", then some self evaluation of their tactics. When your actions had the potential of hurting so many.

[LuvNewcastle]

26. It's bad enough that he can't go home again

and he'll be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life. Some assholes say he should give himself up to be tortured and imprisoned like Bradley Manning has been. It's sickening to see people say Snowden should offer himself up to the same criminals he's exposed. He's already given up a hell of a lot more than any of those bootlickers would for any of their principles, that is if they had any real principles for which they would risk any comforts.

[Thinkingabout]

34. Maybe the asshole should not have become a criminal if he did not want to be imprisoned.

[LuvNewcastle]

38. What the government has been doing is criminal.

It is the height of perversity to nitpick about any crimes a whistleblower might commit in order to expose horrible unconstitutional crimes committed by the government.

[Thinkingabout]

47. here is where you are misinformed, this is with a warrant, can Snowden produce his warrant for his

actions at the NSA, doubt it. Start looking over your shoulder, they know your every keystroke.

[LuvNewcastle]

54. If the NSA is getting warrants for all the shit they do,

and I don't believe for a second that they are, all they have to do is go to their kangaroo court and get one. You can call that paranoid if you like, but American intelligence agencies don't have a reputation for their ethics. We've seen others come forward who say that it has only gotten worse since 9/11.

[Thinkingabout]

57. You can cry about kangaroo courts all you want, FISA court is legal but again I ask where is

Snowden's warrant, he did not even go to kangaroo court. He is a criminal.

[LuvNewcastle]

62. I guess what it comes down to is that I really don't give a fuck

if Snowden broke the law. He's performing a public service. I'm a lot more interested in what the government's been up to. I hope more people from the NSA break the law too, if it will give us more information about domestic spying.

[Thinkingabout]

82. do you hate gubermint?

[LuvNewcastle]

86. That's the best you can do?

We're done here.

[Thinkingabout]

88. watch your back, the gubermint is listening

[frylock]

81. you break the law every day..

I promise you.

[baldguy]

27. I'm guessing you forgot the :sarcasm: tag?

[4_TN_TITANS]

29. I gave up on Schieffer years ago.

Once upon a time, he had some scruples, but these days he just kisses every big Washington arse that comes near his face.

[closeupready]

31. Schieffer is a RW tool.

K&R

[Thinkingabout]

35. In this instant Schieffer is right.

[closeupready]

49. You are entitled to believe the sun sets in the East.

[Thinkingabout]

58. But I know the sun sets in the west, I don't believe when others tells me otherwise. Knowing the

sun sets in the west is a good thing then I am not fooled by those who believe otherwise.

[Maedhros]

73. Oddly...

...your exquisitely crafted arguments are not swaying me over to your viewpoint.

[stupidicus]

32. and they weren't facing decades in jail either

eom

[watoos]

39. Why limit the discussion to is Snowden a whistleblower or a traitor.?

There is a 3rd option. He is a prostitute? The only thing that is going to emerge from all of this is that it is going to make Obama look bad. He has been weakened right before the G8 summit. So as not to look weak he has capitulated to the neocons and is escalating our involvement in Syria. Looks like the Carlyle Group has succeeded in pushing its agenda.

[Maedhros]

75. Not everything that hits the press

is a partisan political attack on Obama.

The only thing that is going to emerge from all of this is that it is going to make Obama look bad.

Snowden's leaks have already had an enormous impact - members of Congress are finally starting to look at the surveillance program with a critical eye. That's worth Snowden's weight in Iridium.

[existentialist]

40. Historical precedent

The historical precedent that I find compelling is John Wilkes, a British MP, who , in the 1760s published and commented on treaty negotiations. and Parliamentary debates.

And who was arrested, and charged, and who fought back.

His name became a household word in both Britain and the American colonies, and much of the first amendment and the fifth amendment, as well as parts of the Constitution prior to the bill of rights are based on the case law that his cases established.

Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, Wilkesboro North Carolina, Wilkes County, North Carolina, and other American locations, and (of course, John Wilkes Booth) were named after him.

But almost no one is aware of his historical role today, and that is a shame.

[mountain grammy]

43. Bob Shieffer has had no shame for a long time. He's a bad corporate joke, should retire in disgrace.

[Kolesar]

45. Worry about your own nose, "Kurt"

"Some very prolific DU posters have spent the last week jumping into every thread to say the same things over and over."

[Progressive dog]

46. Schieffer could have chosen other historical figures -- Ellsberg, Bradley Manning, even Paul Revere

as comparisons to Hong Kong Eddie but don't compare him to heroes of the civil rights movement. Ellsburg turned over a study of the Vietnam war to the NY Times. Snowden fled to Hong Kong with unknown amounts of unknown information to the Chinese. Paul Revere supported his countrymen against an occupying army.
I won't argue that Bradley Manning and Eddie Snowden should not be equated.

[Thinkingabout]

48. In comparsion to MLK and Rosa Parks, Ellsberg and Manning does not even start to compare.

Your ideas of a hero is turning out to be zeroes

[HangOnKids]

98. Gack.

You really like running around telling people what to think and do. PLONK. BYE.

[Progressive dog]

102. I could have worded it better but I

said not to compare them to Hong Kong Eddie.

[Number23]

122. But Schieffer did not originate the comparison, did he? Someone started the "Eric is like Rosa"

foolishness. I think Schieffer's response is a response to that.

[brentspeak]

53. You have to undertand the rationale behind the anti-Snowden threads

here on DU. The reason certain posters keep attacking him is because they have been told to by whatever organization is paying them to post here in the first place (PR firms contracted by corporate New Democrat groups). It's all paid propaganda.

However, not all anti-Snowden posters are paid posters; they're simply gullible tools, easily led by propaganda.

[LuvNewcastle]

59. That's the only explanation that makes sense.

Why else would these people feel the need to jump into EVERY thread like they do? I'm just going to stop responding to them. Their arguments aren't even that good, anyway. Of course, it's pretty hard to put government spying on everyone in a good light.

[truebrit71]

71. It's the only one that makes

....ProSense...

There...fixed it for you

[LuvNewcastle]

76. Thanks, I knew that post needed something.

[truebrit71]

80. You're welcome!!

[Maedhros]

79. Well, when their arguments consist of nothing but an insult and an emoticon

e.g. "Snowden is a scumbag "

it actually works against them.

Most DUers don't adopt Freeper posting habits.

[Coccydynia]

106. Hmm. I think you misunderestimate DU Freeperness

[closeupready]

61. Yes. Do not forget that these organizations get fat government welfare/

contracts in helping to collect intelligence on whoever it is that authorities demand to know about. This involves many thousands of lucratively-paid moles.

[Harmony Blue]

63. I agree

it is paid propaganda.

[HooptieWagon]

87. It is an interesting phenomena.

Whenever an occassion arises where the WH looks bad, or their actions may be legitimately questioned...
After a short period of silence, the same small group of posters suddenly jump into every thread on the subject. They spout the same talking points, display the same convoluted logic, and even aggressively spread the same dis-information and falsehoods. Your conclusion is a distinct possibility.

[Kolesar]

129. Wow. It took three edits to pull that off that mediocre posts?

sad

[Catherina]

143. Thank you & when they don't have their talking points, they go apoplectic

I pay them no mind because when they're forced to talk among themselves the stupid is so concentrated that no one can miss it. Lots of masks came off for good this week.

[Enthusiast]

148. I believe you are right.

That is all.

[Enthusiast]

149. Not quite all. I keep saying...

the propaganda effort is just as great as the surveillance effort. Massive.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. Now we jump into comedy

Still trying to make it about the person and not what was revealed. Cute.

[duhneece]

77. Did Paul Robeson 'run' from US racism?

Did the black who went north have less courage than those who remained in the south?

[KurtNYC]

84. they pulled Robeson's passport

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Robeson#Blacklisted_.281950.E2.80.931955.29

but to be clear, the whole comparison to the fight against racism and for Civil Rights, is bogus and seems designed to sidetrack discussion of what was revealed. Racism is/was no secret.

[duhneece]

94. I was responding to the staying/leaving argument

I understand, accept and don't feel like judging those who remained in the Catholic Church & want to clean/reform it from the inside versus those who left the Catholic Church & joined the Anglicans.

I can't say what I would do. I can't say that one choice is more moral than another on these choices.

[avaistheone1]

91. k&r

[MNBrewer]

95. Get off my lawn, you narcissistic, traitorous kids!

[George II]

96. This comment is interesting.....

"The comparisons are ridiculous on their face and Schieffer should be embarrassed to use dead African American heroes as props in his 'kill the messenger' logical fallacies. But he isn't. Parks and King spoke out and found non-violent ways to oppose racism -- for their actions they became the targets of massive character assassination."

Parks and King were willing to conduct their protests and face the consequences. This coward snuck off to Hong Kong and is hiding out instead of speaking out here. He'd be "safer" here in the US (maybe not as comfortably) than hiding out in another country. Anything can happen over there, he'd at least be guarded to prevent anything untoward happening to him if he was in the US.

But cowards alway run.

[KurtNYC]

103. You argue both that he would be safer here AND that he is a coward for going to HK

Perhaps he is less concerned with his personal safety than you imagine.

[George II]

121. You didn't hear his "interview" today, did you?

[alp227]

97. Video on Youtube has 3 likes, 25 dislikes

[Cronus Protagonist]

114. Oh so that's who he is

I had never heard of or seen that old bastard before, but for sure, his cynical eyes tell a lot.

[Catherina]

144. "He could help himself by voluntarily coming home to face the consequences"

That was like out of a B-movie! They're totally losing it. Snowden really rattled their cruise ship.

Hey Bob S., here's one for you. If you think about hard enough, you might get the joke


Graffiti that is sympathetic to NSA leaker Edward Snowden is seen stenciled on the sidewalk on June 11, 2013 in San Francisco, California (AFP Photo / Justin Sullivan)

[pansypoo53219]

99. deep throat didn't go on teevee did he?

[Romulus Quirinus]

100. General Patton once said that no one ever won a war by dying for his country. nt

[MotherPetrie]

101. K&R for a great post

[Hissyspit]

104. It was a bad commentary. Reminded me of Andy Rooney ragging on Kurt Cobain

after the suicide.

[redqueen]

107. re: the word "pimp"

Springfield sex-trafficking survivor wants changes made to definition of word 'pimp '

...

to abduct human beings and sell their bodies for money,

...

“They are usually violent and abusive, and can use various tactics to keep the human beings under their control.

...

http://www.nj.com/suburbannews/index.ssf/2013/05/springfield_sex-trafficking_su.html

[gailhen]

109. Gailhen

Don't know why anyone would be surprised by this bloviator. He has been a right-wing patsy forever. I believe his brother or brother-in-law was appointed as an ambassador by Nixon and he has almost always sided with the side of injustice.

[JDPriestly]

113. Schieffer did not get much intellect or analytical talent.

Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King wanted to, intended to create a social movement that would involve many people. Snowden just wanted to give us information and let us respond to it as we wish. Snowden is not an organizer. Martin Luther King was an organizer, and Rosa Parks was an important part of inspiring the formation and strengthening of an organization.

Snowden strikes me as a very quiet man with little intention to create an organization. He is wisely leaving that up to others.

Schieffer is an example of someone who contributes to the dumbing down of Americans. He just isn't very bright. He just does not have very much education himself.

[nradisic]

117. He needs to be put out to pasture...

Bob is losing it.

[warrprayer]

118. Bravo

welcome to the Brave New World

[pacalo]

119. Excellent point. Those who sign his paycheck may have been pleased, but they seem to be

ignoring what has happened to the newspaper industry.

[IrishAyes]

123. Very good post.

I think Schieffer's going senile, and I'm almost 70 so that's not ageism. You might've noticed how poorly he handled his duties as moderator during the presidential campaign debate. Maybe he's been hanging around too many Republicans; they're the worst kind of influence.

Bless Rosa Parks and Dr. King. They helped change the nation a great deal for the better.

[Kolesar]

130. Well that was a lot of filler

Did you feel fulfilled when you wrote that?
Making good use of your day??

[treestar]

134. IMO the idea of even considering Eddie in the same light as those two

is laughably ridiculous, but who started it? It probably came from his fans' side and Shieffer is trying to oppose it.

I don't know that idiocy of the leaker means we won't look at what was leaked, but the people who started calling him a hero immediately are switching to that meme, not wanting to be called out on their overfast crowning of him.

[treestar]

137. Shieffer picks on Eddie

You pick on schieffer. What about the underlying documents that are so important?

[DeSwiss]

139. Once a B-teamer, always a B-teamer. :-| K&R n/t

[Catherina]

145. Kurt, thank you so much for this superp post.

You nailed it

[lexington filly]

146. Schieffer's comparison didn't even reach apples and oranges status.

More like comparing apples to planets for all the sense he made. King, etc. protested open, in-your-face, legal, degrading racial discrimination. It was written on water fountains, restrooms, everywhere--in black and white--literally and figuratively. Rev. King, etc. had followers, he wasn't alone. America at that time wasn't a place where you could imprison him in secret, long-term isolation creating an out of sight/out of mind scenario. Americans and media got in the faces of the authorities and howled "back in the day." Now, we t-w-e-e-t?

Cut Snowden some slack 'cause it's a different America and a different era of institutional immorality. What? He should be a suicidal information-bomber and wait at a D.C. McDonald's for the feds? I consider him a public servant for providing Americans with in-depth information our Constitution has become down-graded to grant just "situational freedoms" rather than guaranteed freedoms as originally written and lawfully enforced throughout our history. I'd like to see Snowden free and able to spill all the beans on how elements of the Constitution are being folded, spindled and mutilated. Call me nosy.

Our ancestors fought and died for that Constitution so I think it's worth listening to Snowden. It's worth some Shock & Awe that our 3 branches of government are secretly serving up our freedoms like a roasted pig with an apple in it's mouth. And it's damn well worth some howling and protests and marching until we get them back. See, I believe everyday people Are the government and those that work for the government such as judges and presidents and congress men and women are like our kids. Sometimes we have to discipline them, correct behaviors, and demonstrate whose really in charge.

[madrchsod]

151. yes bob has no shame .

he should retire and write his memories before he forgets them.