Bill Clinton, STFU

[DonCoquixote]

Look, I know he is great at slamming GOP idiocy, but for how long do we have to let him keep dragging us to the right, throwing the left under the Bus.

I speak of two issues, the intervention in Syria, and the Keystone pipeline, both issues where he has come out and slammed Obama for not going the right wing route.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73445.html
http://washingtonexaminer.com/after-criticism-from-bill-clinton-president-obama-moves-to-support-syrian-rebels/article/2531909

Look Bill, we may be grateful for the fact you ran a centrist government that had a decent, but insufficient, tax on the rich, and government spending. We have not forgotten who killed Glass-Steagall, the Telecommunications act, and who brought in NAFTA. But frankly, to paraphrase Chris Rock, you are starting to act like the Funny Uncle that molested us when we were kids, than expects us to love him because he paid our way through College.

We are not your whores, Mr. Clinton,
nor are we your wives property, either.

[hedgehog]

1. Works for me!

[markiv]

2. yout forgot massive h-1b visa increases and MFN-China

this jerk dealt the deathblow to the middle and working classes

[awoke_in_2003]

41. And welfare "reform". nt

[AgingAmerican]

110. GW Bush dealt a deathblow to the middle and working classes

Clinton brought them an economic miracle. It was called the "Clinton miracle" at the time. The greatest period of sustained economic growth in US history.

You are repeating GOP talking points.

[markiv]

116. no, i lived it, and voted for clinton in 1996

YES, Clinton's presidency was the best economic period of my adult lifetime

BUT, I also know how to connect the dots

I voted for Perot in 1992, because of NAFTA, I voted for Clinton in 1996 is spite of NAFTA, because things were finally getting better

but my vote was repaid with 2 massive increases in H-1b visa increases in 1998 and 2000, that more than took back what the clinton years 'gave' me, makiing indentured servitude the biggest factor in tech labor

and the MFN-China finished off manufacturing, along with all the white collor jobs that support it. it created our reality of american workers trying to 'compete' with chinese slaves, and steve job's Apple factories with suicide nets, and having to borrow from china to make up for the holes in our economy that massive permanent trade deficits with competition from chinese slaves gave us

i'm not copying 'talking points, i'm writing from memory and experience, in answer to your lame partison accusation

yes, the architect of globalism was bush sr. and yes, it was continued by w bush AND obama. but the largest most damaging bulk of it, came in under clinton

i still remember the clinton period as 'the good years' - but i also know that the bad years that came after (and are still continuing) came from the stuff he signed. he destryed what little leverage the middle and working classes had, and sentenced them to serfdom

[CrispyQ]

141. I remember an inflated stock market based on dubious accounting practices.

Here's an impressive list of other Clinton right wing policies:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Michael_Moore/Democrats_DOA_SWM.html

"Yes, you'd have to agree, considering all of his above accomplishments, that Bill Clinton was one of the best Republican Presidents we've ever had." Michael Moore, "Stupid White Men and other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation"

I'd be laughing if it weren't so fucking tragic.

[ctsnowman]

152. X2

[AgingAmerican]

183. Stock markets don't create jobs

22 million of them, if I remember correctly.

[ceonupe]

158. take off the blinders

NAFTA, HIgh tech visas , outsourcing on large scale and MFN status to china as well as lowering or eliminating almost all trade tariffs.

Yes bill Clinton did all of the above.

[AgingAmerican]

184. Had Bush kept Clintons economic policies up

The national debt would have been paid off by 2008.

Read it and weep: http://clinton5.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/eightyears-01.html

[ceonupe]

209. not arguing that

im not arguing that.

I am saying that the rapid destruction of the manufacturing and blue collar base happened in large part by the policies he supported.

All the bad laws and deregulation of wall street and banking happened during the clinton years as well.

After NAFTA every manufacture in a 90 mile radius of our town except the tire plant which gets millions in tax breaks and special exemptions and credits have left. All to mexico and for the non tariff items china or other low wage countries.

But MFN status to china setup in the way it is was the final death blow to american manufacturing and in large part the traditional middle class.

[AgingAmerican]

210. Bla bla bla

n/t

[backwoodsbob]

156. jerk?

ten years ago he was worshipped.

Maybe we can learn from all this and quit worshipping a party and elect good people

[xtraxritical]

159. No more Clintons, No more bushes.

Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Dennis Kuscinich - all real Democrats.

[George II]

181. Bernie Sanders isn't a Democrat

[xtraxritical]

186. Even better, he's a Democratic Socialist.

I'll vote for him twice!

[cali]

3. fuck bill clinton. I wish he'd just go away and yeah, I know he's great on the campaign trail

[Enthusiast]

80. And there is this.

[Laelth]

82. Most likely Obama used Clinton for cover from the left.

When it was first reported that Clinton and Gramps were publicly pressuring Obama to go to war, I was incensed because it's entirely inappropriate for a former President to make a public policy statement of that kind ... unless.

It's most likely that Obama (who had already decided to go to war in Syria) asked both Clinton and Gramps to give him some cover (from both the right and the left). Clinton, it appears, obliged. Hard to be mad at Clinton for that. He felt it was his duty to support the President.

-Laelth

[AtomicKitten]

87. You have quite an imagination.

The Nation: Obama Opposed Syria War Plan from Clinton, Petraeus, Panetta, Gen. Dempsey

Let’s give the White House and President Obama, personally, credit for blocking the hawks in his administration from going to war in Syria.

Last week, we learned that Hillary Clinton and David Petraeus, now thankfully pursuing other opportunities and spending more time with their families, had cooked up a plan to arm and train the ragtag Syrian rebels, thus that horrible civil war.

Now we learn that Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta and General Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs—both of whom are about to join Clinton and Petraeus in the private sector—also backed the Clinton-Petraeus plan,
getting the United States directly involved in
Who was against it? Obama.

more: http://www.thenation.com/blog/172774/obama-opposed-syria-war-plan-clinton-petraeus-panetta-gen-dempsey#axzz2WIXZAD7o

[Laelth]

113. I have said, on a number of occasions, that Obama has been fighting off the dogs of war.

I gave him credit for that. It appears, however, that he has changed his mind. Clinton's appearance supports that conclusion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3021208

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3016553

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3015439

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3015234

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3015196

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3015100

Please get back to me after you read what I said in the six posts above.

-Laelth

[Beacool]

99. Yeah, I know. He's only useful when the Democrat's are in trouble.

The rest of the time he should just keep his mouth shut like a good little boy.

[montanacowboy]

4. Ditto

I totally agree

what we don't need is more of the same old DLC Bullshit

[graham4anything]

5. -1 This is really over the top and disgusting. Comparing a democratic president to what you said???

I want to be on record stating I find the above post totally unacceptable and over the top.

95% of the democratic party values President Obama44, President Bill Clinton42 and President to be Hillary Clinton45.

This hyperbole in the OP is way, way over the top. IMHO

[reusrename]

19. No thoughts on Syria or the pipeline?

Wait.

[tavalon]

73. I think I'm starting to get it

We keep Graham around for the comic relief. I do admire his consistency.

[Cha]

75. Sorry, but that struck me as..

[tavalon]

76. Snark?

Yeah, it was. I find his posts bizarre and frequently offensive.

[Cha]

77. yeah, but your

snark was dead on. therefore hilarious.

[azbillyboy]

42. Boo Effing Hoo

I for one will not fellate the Clintons or the Obamas. We Dems have had so little to chose from that we're expected to grovel at the feet of any right of center hack wearing the "D" label! Bill, Hillary and the current WH occupant are pitiful examples of how far the Party has fallen. Better than Willard or McAnus.. Yes... But that is a piss poor comparison. Let's compare the Clintons or B.O. to someone like... say a Wellstone..... (Cue crickets chirping).

Of course before we can compare B.O. to anyone we have to decide if we're going to use the Obama on the campaign trail (Nice flowery sounding speeches) or the corporate Obama we have in the White House. Which one is it?

If you are truly offended because some of us won't swallow shit and say it tastes like honey, then you might want to shop for some Depends at WalMart (since Clinton opened the door for WalMart's rise to power as well as sending all our fucking decent jobs to China).

Have a nice fucking day

[xtraxritical]

160. Total agreement here, let Clinton go blow his sax.

[George II]

45. I totally agree with you........I stopped reading this site for a couple of months, and.........

......I have to come back to THIS obnoxious and way off base OP? Precisely the reason that I strayed away in the first place.

If one isn't 110% in agreement with some posters around here, you're a bum and might as well be a republican to some.

Utterly disgusting.

[okaawhatever]

54. I'm with ya on that. Especially since the entire speech of Clinton was him referring to his not

helping Rwanda. I think his message from the speech he gave was, "I didn't support Rwanda and I regret it. Don't do the same, because you'll probably regret it too."
I wonder why some of those who criticize Obama and Clinton of not being far enough left are thinking about the suffering and effects of sarin gas on civilians?

[DonCoquixote]

56. My answer

We supported someone against the Iranian bad guys; he became Saddam Hussein.
We supported someone against the Soviet bad guys: he became Osama Ben Ladin.

In both cases, the UN had indeed, shown itself to be useless,
but in both cases, we did a lot more harm than good.

[AgingAmerican]

64. So never ever support anyone against the bad guys, ever again

Gotcha.

[Erose999]

67. It was us who empowered the "bad guys" to start with, right? I'm pretty sure Assad was our creation

just like Mubarak, Hussein, Bin Laden, etc etc etc.

We empower dictators rather than allowing democracies to form, and this is the kind of shit that happens as a result.

We can't impose "democracy" on other countries by force. It has to originate from within that country in a form that will be sustainable or it is doomed to fail.

[DonCoquixote]

69. Not if they are linked to Iran

Which these people we are helping ARE!

[sabrina 1]

79. Who are the bad guys in Syria? The 'rebels'/Al Queda or the Government? We were good friends with

Assad when we wanted to dump millions of Iraqis we ran from their countries in his country. He accepted them. Now we've driven them out again. We are like bulls in china shops, everywhere we go people seem to be destroyed and end up with dictators, granted friendly to us dictators. Did Clinton support that disaster too? Hillary voted for it airc.

We armed Al Queda in Afghanistan and Libya. That didn't turn out so well. So let's do it again and see if we get a different result?

How about we leave these countries alone, considering our interference in Iraq and Afghanistan hasn't exactly benefited anyone, especially all the dead people whose relatives and friends won't forget even though we have such short memories.

Otoh, arming Al Queda will guarantee a continuation of the great WOT when we 'figure out' how ungrateful they are and need some more 'terror funding'. So maybe it's a good idea after all.

Yeah, let's keep creating enemies. We have so much money to spend on more war. I hope no one ever mentions 'the deficit' to me again. And I really, really hope I never again hear any politician talking about 'cutting benefits' for the poor! Their credibility sinks lower with ever passing day.

[AgingAmerican]

91. Al Quaeda does not exist in any meaningful way

They never were the threat the Bushies claimed. Obama vaporized their leader. Take a deep breath.

[CokeMachine]

143. I thought they buried him at sea??

Got any links to the vaporization??

Have a great day

[AgingAmerican]

185. It's a figure of speech

[George II]

176. Osama bin Laden became Osama bin Laden because.....

....Daddy Bush refused to listen to Middle East experts and advisors, who warned him against stationing troops, including woman, on Holy Land in Egypt.

Sure, they may be illogical and living in the middle ages, but that is their culture and religion. By disrespecting their Holy Land and religion, Bush converted Osama bin Laden from an ally to an enemy.

[treestar]

135. My thinking on that is

that there would be a ton of posts, if we did nothing, on Obama failing to help those people.

[okaawhatever]

136. Yeah, that's what is suprising me. I expected more sympathy from the left with the sarin gas

issue. I say we put the weapons in the hands of the three larger groups who don't have ties to Al Qaeda and then not replace the weapons. We have a ton of stuff stockpiled, surely we can go a little longer without them. I think the key to American support is to give them things we've already purchased that we have sitting in Armorys somewhere.

[xtraxritical]

161. Stay out of foreign civil wars, did we learn nothing from Vietnam?

No wonder Canada has national healthcare they don't do wars.

[John2]

170. I think in this case,

that you need to give the American people more credit, especially after they were duped into an illegal War in Iraq, which cost Americans Billions of Dollars and lives. Even the Polls do not agree with you this time.

There is more information out there, in this age of communication, then coming from the Obama Administration, Congress, the Western Media or special interest groups with agendas. For example, I don't believe the Obama Administration because of other information disputing their claims about who actually used sarin gas between the Assad Government and rebel forces infiltrated by religious extremists perpetrating acts of Terrorism in a War.

President Obama's assertion is the rebels have no access to chemicals, but there is information disputing it. Even their choice for Head of the U.N. doesn't go that far to accuse the Syrian Government of using Sarin, because they have information disputing it. I have posted several times that information on this Board and how the rebels may have obtained access to chemical weapons.

As far as President Clinton, I would be leary of any Democrat getting in bed with the likes of John McCain or Lindsey Graham advocating another War for regime change. The President would do him self better if he just reverse this path altogether of regime change and nation building, like he campaigned on in 2008 and 2012. He put some of the same people advocating this Policy in his Administration. He needs to give America a fresh start and break clean from it.
President Clinton is not helping that at all allying his voice with these people. As far as I'm concerned, people like John McCain should be the first person retired from Congress. Hillary Clinton was defeated, because Obama used the Iraq War against her. If she does run, I guarantee you she want be popular advocating more Wars for regime change. There is nothing wussy about being smart, instead of a wreckless warmongeror. Sne will be an easy target for a new Democrat to run against her. People vote on issues, not celebrity status. If Obama truely believes he just won on celebrity status, then he don't know his core voters.

[George II]

180. There have been already, and as you point out probably 10000% more if we didn't help.

[Beacool]

103. Hear, hear!!!

I know precisely what you mean.

[Beacool]

102. Graham, what did you expect?

It's DU, where the Clintons are despised as much as they are at Free Republic. Pity that to their chagrin, they are still the two most popular politicians in the nation.

Fuck them, who gives a crap what they think? Out there in the real world, the whole family is at CGI America in Chicago doing what they love to do best: coming up with solutions to many of the world's problems.

[loyalsister]

6. He's trying to intrude on the presidency

In some ways, he's very lucky he has generally been regarded as a good president WHEN he was president.
Now the egotistical man who was once president is losing credibility.

[DonCoquixote]

9. Merely intrude

This Syrian crap is so that her can set his wife up in his old job, through which he will run the show, punch hippies, and ensure the democrat party of FDR is DEAD.

[loyalsister]

13. It's all about Bill

I think he would do this regardless of the politics. I think he's just a narcissist wants to be president for the rest of his life.

[AgingAmerican]

95. I find the obsession some here have with Bill Clinton

to be amusing. GO Bill!!

[George II]

51. Please elaborate on what you mean by "this Syrian crap".

[DonCoquixote]

53. simple

aiding the syrian rebels, many of whom may be Al Qaida. Again,just as Bill risked war with Russia, we will risk war with Putin's Russia, the one that has none of that Soviet idealism holding it back.

[AgingAmerican]

98. Bill risked war with Russia?

What planet do you live on? lol

Obama decided weeks ago to arm Syria. It's Obama's fault, not Bills. lol

US Decision to arm Syrian rebels made weeks ago

[AgingAmerican]

94. You sound like a cross between Alex Jones and a Democrat

[La Lioness Priyanka]

150. like he "intruded" during the DNC to help win Obama this election?

with a speech that really helped explain how liberal policies were helping america, in a way OBama himself seemed to have trouble explaining.

[xtraxritical]

162. Yes, Democrats are good speechifiers IMHO.

[loyalsister]

187. That wasn't the presidency in action it was an election

He is a very good campaigner. It one thing for him to talk about what Obama was doing quite another to try to tell Obama what to do.

[Whisp]

197. you don't criticize a sitting president publicly on foreign affairs.

now who that is aimed at, I'm not sure - most likely party politicians of either side. Certainly not us schmucks.

Romney tried to do that with Benghazi, iirc, and he got a lot of whatfor for that from everyone.

[loyalsister]

204. Exactly

my thoughts. It was very sad to see Clinton do that.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

208. and obama has to listen because? you should allocate responsibility to obama when you like

his decisions and when you don't. otherwise it reeks of dishonesty to the rest of us.

[loyalsister]

213. My criticism was of Bill Clinton criticizing the foreign policy of a sitting president

It's bad form. Not only did he not criticize Bush, he supported him.

[xchrom]

7. indeed -- STFU, bill. nt

[blkmusclmachine]

8. Never liked Clinton.

Gives off bad vibes.

[BeyondGeography]

10. How long?

As long as he's breathing.

[DonCoquixote]

11. Then in that case

I will pop a bottle of champagne when he goes to that big cigar lounge down below!

Yes, he is better than the best of the GOP, but after a while, it becomes like debating whether the first level of hell is better than the ninth, even if true, it is still too damned hot!

[BeyondGeography]

14. Dude is exhausting

One can see why Obama doesn't naturally get along with him. It.never.ends.

[AgingAmerican]

100. Actually the opposite is true

Him and Obama have been working together closely for a long time.

[BeyondGeography]

108. Only out of necessity

And not forever:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/05/bill-clinton-barack-obama-bromance-long-slow-making

[AgingAmerican]

111. They have been working together closely on many issues for a long time

Obama doesn't share your bigotry

[BeyondGeography]

114. LOL

Whatever.

[AgingAmerican]

191. LOL

Whatever.

[Baitball Blogger]

12. Someone's portfolio needs stuffing.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

15. I get the idea we are seeing a "fuck ALL those guys from the 90s".

[ecstatic]

16. Does it seem like democratic men from the south become more conservative

in old age?

[carolinayellowdog]

30. not Jimmy!

quite the opposite

[tavalon]

74. Thank you. Indeed

Jimmy Carter is a wonderful human being. He was too good for the Presidency.

[Schema Thing]

17. A man who just couldn't get involved in the relatively simple operation it would have been to stop

what happened in Rwanda, should not be lecturing a man who is being thoughtful on the million times more complex situation in Syria.

[Hekate]

34. Rwanda was no more simple than Bosnia or Syria

The fact that Clinton hesitated to get involved in Rwanda, to great cost to humanity, gives him more credibility on the issue of intervention, not less.

[Schema Thing]

65. don't be silly

It was much less complicated.

[Hekate]

71. Sure

[John2]

172. You comparing,

Rwanda to Syria and Bosnia? I fail to see the connection to all three. Just what kind of military and allies did Rwanda have compared to Bosnia or Syria? And who was allied with Bosnia, that you claim is comparable to Syria? Did any of those countries have a Russia or Iran to intefere?

[LostOne4Ever]

18. I love the big dawg!

But I respectfully disagree with him on these two issues.

ESPECIALLY on Syria.

We need to let the Syrian people settle this dispute on their own. Meddling will only come back to haunt us like it did when we aided the Mujahideen against the soviets, and the XL pipeline is nothing but a giant money grab by a corporation at the expense of our environment.

[CreekDog]

20. I really don't like what Clinton said about Syria and how he undermined Obama on this

especially when he didn't need to say anything --Bush 43, Bush the elder and Carter each said nothing on this. why did Clinton?

but I like Bill Clinton, though he frustrates me occasionally.

but I like Obama, though he frustrates me occasionally.

these people are not saints.

[otohara]

22. Exactly - Name Calling?

sounds like Hannity or Bill O'really when he stoops to this level.

[Luminous Animal]

21. He also destroyed welfare and we are seeing the increasingly horrible affects of that to this day.

[bvar22]

23. The Old Dog came down off the porch to put up a fight.

Old Bill knows it won't be as much fun being 2nd Best Republican President Ever.
Nobody ever Thrill F**** 2nd Place.

[GoCubsGo]

24. Disappointing, to say the least.

You are not helping, Mr. Clinton...

[allin99]

25. obama makes his own decisions, unless you are saying...

he is easily dragged into something as serious as arming rebels in another country cuz a former president says so. There is no way obama is that weak. and if bill is a war monger for saying lets up our involvement in syria, then obama is the same for actually doing it.

[n2doc]

26. Any guesses on when Bill goes Zell Miller on us?

And is a speaker at the 2016 Republican Convention?

[ctsnowman]

163. When the Democrats nominate a liberal

for a change. (if ever) He will do it in a heartbeat.

[Whisp]

27. I like Chris Rock. And your OP.

and I believe this latest diarrhea coming from his mouth is to cover the State Dept sexual assault and pedophilia scandal.

I am now convinced Hillitary will be running. I had my doubts, but this tells me she is.

On edit: This tells me she is if Bill is successful in distracting the media from it. Which is almost a guarantee because there is no media, it's Entertainment Tonight, and Tomorrow Night and For All Nights Forward.

[JoeyT]

50. +1

I think you're right and hope to hell you're wrong. I really don't want Hillary.

[nevergiveup]

28. I have tried so hard over the years to like Bill Clinton

and was beginning to make some progress and now this and I am back to where I started. I agree with the poster above who said Bill Clinton is exhausting. Deep down inside Obama must truly detest him.

[Whisp]

31. I agree. Clinton is so opposite of Obama

in so many ways - so many unsavory ways.

Can you imagine what Michelle thinks of the Clintons? oiy!

I really wish Hill and Bill would retire in a nice quiet place on the moon.

[AgingAmerican]

193. Yes, indeed

Clinton didn't hand the Republicans 98% of what they wanted for nothing in return. Definitely opposite in many ways. Clinton owned the republicans at every turn, Obama is owned BY the republicans at every turn.

[Whisp]

194. ah, so you still believer Orange Boneman about that 98%?

Hi Chelsea.

[carolinayellowdog]

29. I chose my Jimmy Carter avatar for a reason

There was an ungodly father/son compensatory motive behind Dubya's "finishing the job in Iraq" that Poppy Bush left undone in Kuwait. Now Clinton's regrets about Bosnia are inspiring him with a desire to use Obama to show that Democrats love jumping into sectarian bloodbaths in the Middle East just as much as Republicans.

Obama has other people to listen to and hopefully the effect of these statements by Clinton will push him in the opposite direction.

[BlueStreak]

32. Bill needs to understand his wife might be held accountable to his words

Maybe that isn't fair, but most people will assume that they share the same views, if she doesn't say anything to the contrary.

And here's the real issue.

1) There are already 90,000 people dead. Where were you when we might have been in a position to stop that before the first 2000 were dead?

2) Russia is flooding the place with weapons. If you aren't willing to take Putin on head on, then STFU.

[gateley]

33. Gotta agree with you on these issues -- and disagree with Bill.

ESPECIALLY the Keystone Pipeline (I flop back and forth regarding sending arms to Syria).

And I haven't forgotten Glass-Steagall, NAFTA, etc., either.

[Hekate]

35. Disgusting characterizations in this thread

The Funny Uncle? Really?

[rhett o rick]

38. Disgusting is right, but I agree with the poster. nm

[jehop61]

36. Just imagine

how much he would try to interfere if Hiliary was President? The sole reason I won't vote for her if she runs. He had his chance and almost blew it over a bj. Not good, Bill.

[DeSwiss]

37. K&R

[antigop]

39. You forgot the Commodity Futures Modernization Act signed by Bill Clinton. nt

[Hekate]

40. Just a comment: Still love the Big Dog, despite his failings.

He's brilliant, and he does good in the world.








sadly this will not be ibtl, but that's just me.

[Whisp]

48. this link may shed some light on his do gooder thing:

http://www.mediahacker.org/2010/11/01/the-clinton-bush-haiti-fund-is-lying-to-you/

The Clinton Bush Haiti Fund is Lying to You
November 1, 2010 · by Ansel · in Blog, Clips, Text

Within hours of my op-ed being published in the New York Daily News today, the $50 million Clinton Bush Haiti Fund posted an update on its Facebook page called “Cholera Concern,” which includes this sentence: “While other organizations in Haiti are using their resources to deliver immediate humanitarian aid, we are using our resources to focus on long-term development so that these crises are prevented.”

Look at the screen shot of an Oct. 25 article about Haiti on Fox News. The advertisement for the fund is doubly deceitful: “100% of donations go directly to relief efforts,” it says. That is a lie, period. Relief is what earthquake victims desperately need right now to protect them from an oncoming hurricane. It’s what they’ve needed for the past ten months to make tent camps more livable.

Relief is not the same as long-term development, especially the fund’s chosen brand focusing on Haiti’s business class. I thought planning and executing long-term development was the Haitian government’s job. There are no Haitians on the Clinton Bush Haiti Fund’s board of directors.

“The best way concerned citizens can help is to donate funds…” This is BS, too. Not only because the fund in question is lying and not spending its money on relief efforts. “Concerned citizens” can be informed by serious journalism, the kind major media refuse to practice when it comes to Haiti. “Concerned citizens” can do more than toss spare change at Haiti’s morass of NGOs. “Concerned citizens” can make sure their government’s policies – from financing a dubious election, to supporting a militarized peacekeeping force, to dumping American rice – don’t reinforce poverty on a structural level.

[Fuddnik]

43. Channeling his inner John McCain.

[ErikJ]

44. Great summary! nt

[BainsBane]

46. Either the press mis-characterized his statement

or he was back peddling on Morning Joe this morning, perhaps both.

[DonCoquixote]

47. Why I used the image I did

First off, as someone who has had friends that were victims of "funny uncles", I do NOT take that sort of image lightly. If there are any victims of such abuse out there, please know that I mean do disrespect.

That being said, here is why I use and stand by that image.

When you have family, you have a reasonable expectation that, if they are not going to help you, they at least are not going to hurt you. When you scream and say "please stop that, it hurts" you expect them to stop, and listen. Yes, relatives sometimes do have the nasty job of having to take you to the dentist (which hurts) or tell you they cannot buy that thing you really deserved, but there is a trust that says that they will do what they can to protect you, and help you when fortunes swing their way.

Then there are abusive members, the ones that take advantage of the fact you need them. They will always recall every favor you did for them, so that when they try to hurt you, they pull out the "you owe me" crap, very much like the Clintons do every damned election! What hurts is, no matter how much they say they are sorry, no matter how well they sing whatever tune you want to hear, whatever tune the doctor or judge wants them to sing, you know that the minute you are prone, they will abuse you, AGAIN! What is worse is that they will guilt trip you not just for trying to hold them accountable, but for even speaking up. What hurts is not just the fact that they know they are going to abuse you, but that they do not even think it is wrong, that you are somehow derelict in your duty as the lower level for not wanting to give them everything they want, exactly how they want it, and right fucking now!

Of course, where does that leave the victim; scared, used, angry, hurt. Frankly, that is where we are now. We want to believe that our family members can give up the abuse, that we can get to a point where we can trust them, but we know we cannot, and we cannot entrust our children to them.

Do not get me wrong, if Hillary were to for once show an actual disagreement with her husband, especially for the sake of a liberal cause, I would dance. Hell, I would settle for getting glass-steagall back. And yes, as much as I would love to think a third party vote would send a message, I still remember the lessons I learned in 2000 where people I thought were leftist not only blew smoke in my face, but bragged to the local news in Tampa how they convinced liberals to stay home. I have no illusions about being able to care, or be cared for, but I can work bit by bit towards the inevitable point where the abusers either get it and repent, or, till they finally get old and die, and you go to the funeral regretting that the person that hurt you not only never got it, but that they wasted their lives, and a whole lot of yours.

[hopemountain]

182. no need to defend

your characterization of the old dog is spot on.

[aikoaiko]

49. Bill speaks for Bill and he isn't dragging us anywhere

People love to blame Bill Clinton.

[KoKo]

52. I felt like his "Whore" watching him Pontificating on Blooberg Business today

As the ENTITLED ONE...promoting his Clinton Global Initiative...while Promoting Funding Syrian Rebels with our TAX DOLLARS in JORDAN (where we will have a base) and then smiling about HIS GRAND IDEAS about PRIVATIZATION of AMERICA since ...to quote him:

"America's Wages are now on Parity Globally so this is an Excellent time for Manufacturing Surge in the USA due to "Private/Public Partnerships" where Private get a Tax Break to bring home their Tax Dodges abroad and can get at least a 6% investment for Private/Public Partnerships." He said...in return we will "REVISE OUR TAX CODE."

How are PRIVATE going to GAIN 6% unless they CHARGE US...for USING the Private Roads/Utilities and Other STUFF they are doing in their PARTNERSHIP?

HUH?

[Whisp]

55. "America's Wages are now on Parity Globally so this is an Excellent time

jesus, wtf.

His 'parity' means a lot of suffering for a lot of people, and all over the world. Multiple part time jobs that pay shit with no extras for anything - money for medicine for kids, for lots of things that coddled ass will never have to worry about for 23 lifetimes.

gawd, I hate that man and the things that coil out of his mouth.

[Divernan]

81. GLOBAL PARITIY!?! With slave labor wages in China/3rd world countries?!?!

How appalling and disgusting to see Bill Clinton devote his considerable mental abilities & political skills to glorify and exploit the demise of the US working class. He sounds like goddamn Romney speaking at a fundraiser to his one percent donors. "Hey, fellas! This is great! We've ripped off the US working class/middle class down to the point they're at a third world level! Or as I, Bill Clinton, like to describe it: America's wages are now on parity globally!" No wonder Clinton, Obama & the 2 Bushes distanced themselves physically from Jimmy Carter in that Oval Office photo of the 5 presidents. Carter is to that bunch of uber capitalists as garlic is to vampires or holy water sprinkled on evil spirits.

China's per capita income is three and a half times less than that of the U.S., and even less than Brazil. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2013/03/23/within-three-years-u-s-no-longer-no-1/

For god's sake, all you Clinton supporters. Look at the numbers he gleefully relies upon to claim the US has global parity re wages. The US race to the bottom re the difference in income distribution between the 1 percent and the rest of us, the huge increase in payoffs to corporate board members, the obscenely high ratio of CEO pay to worker bee pay as compared to other civilized countries like Germany, etc., - of course America's wages have dropped to the point of being on parity with third world countries.

http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/on-numbers/scott-thomas/2011/07/china-india-and-us-are-top-3-population.html

New estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau put China in the lead with 1.34 billion residents, followed by India with 1.19 billion. The United States is a distant third with 311.1 million people.

Rounding out the top five are Indonesia (245.6 million) and Brazil (203.4 million)

https://www.google.com/search?q=ratio+of+CEO+pay+to+worker+pay+by+country&client=firefox-a&hs=Qup&rls=org.mozilla:en-US fficial&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=lUy8Ubq7Hejx0wG0-YEw&ved=0CDIQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=615

RATIO OF PAY - CEO: Average worker
JAPAN 11:1
GERMANY 12:1
FRANCE 15:1
ITALY 20:1
CANADA 20:1
SO. AFRICA 21:1
BRITAIN 22:1
MEXICO 47:1
VENEZUELA 50:1
UNITED STATES 475:1

Americans are falling out of the middle class at an alarming rate. It has been observed that the only way kids of middle class families will be able to remain in the middle class is if they each inherit considerable funds.

[KoKo]

86. Excellent post, Divernan. I apologize for my Rant...

I had watched his Bloomberg interview...and was shocked by his viewpoints. He truly was "Captured" by Wall Street and hasn't looked back. Then to add in his Neo-Con War views and the Privatization scheme with the Infrastructure Bank/Private/Public threw me over the edge.

The thing about it is that he has a gift for making what he says seem so reasonable and logical that unless one had experience with what those policies cost us with his part in Deregulation of Banks, Telecom DeReg, Welfare Reform and Nafta...then Bush II finishing it off...one would believe that he was incredibly brilliant and visionary.

[Whisp]

89. I don't know if you have seen this: The Bush Clinton Haiti fund.

makes you want to fucking puke your lungs out when you hear how about the good humanitarian works of the Clintons. It's cover for cash yeh, for their own pockets and their friends.


http://www.mediahacker.org/2010/11/01/the-clinton-bush-haiti-fund-is-lying-to-you/

The Clinton Bush Haiti Fund is Lying to You
November 1, 2010 · by Ansel · in Blog, Clips, Text

Within hours of my op-ed being published in the New York Daily News today, the $50 million Clinton Bush Haiti Fund posted an update on its Facebook page called “Cholera Concern,” which includes this sentence: “While other organizations in Haiti are using their resources to deliver immediate humanitarian aid, we are using our resources to focus on long-term development so that these crises are prevented.”

Look at the screen shot of an Oct. 25 article about Haiti on Fox News. The advertisement for the fund is doubly deceitful: “100% of donations go directly to relief efforts,” it says. That is a lie, period. Relief is what earthquake victims desperately need right now to protect them from an oncoming hurricane. It’s what they’ve needed for the past ten months to make tent camps more livable.

Relief is not the same as long-term development, especially the fund’s chosen brand focusing on Haiti’s business class. I thought planning and executing long-term development was the Haitian government’s job. There are no Haitians on the Clinton Bush Haiti Fund’s board of directors.

“The best way concerned citizens can help is to donate funds…” This is BS, too. Not only because the fund in question is lying and not spending its money on relief efforts. “Concerned citizens” can be informed by serious journalism, the kind major media refuse to practice when it comes to Haiti. “Concerned citizens” can do more than toss spare change at Haiti’s morass of NGOs. “Concerned citizens” can make sure their government’s policies – from financing a dubious election, to supporting a militarized peacekeeping force, to dumping American rice – don’t reinforce poverty on a structural level.

[KoKo]

112. I had seen a headline...but this is truly Disgusting...

I've wondered about his "Global Initiative Fund." In the interview yesterday he said that they are doing Wind Farms in Native American Tribal areas in the SouthWest so that the Tribes will have their own power and can keep the money inside the Reservations rather than paying big companies. Sounded good...but, I wonder now that I read the details about Haiti if there isn't some scam involved. Maybe they will pay the companies who install the Wind Farms more money than the former utilities in the end.

He did say that these Reservations are ones that can't make money off of Gambling because it's illegal in their states and that's why his Global Initiative targeted them for the Wind Farms. So...wonder if the reservations are supposed to get into "Selling Off" some of the energy they produce that will make them as much money as the Casinos do for other tribes. After reading that about Haiti...one does wonder...

[ctsnowman]

164. Private/Public Partnerships

AKA we the tax payers subsidize multinational corporations and if the enterprise profits the multinationals keep the earnings and if they fail we pick up the tab. All while praising the generosity of the oligarchs.

[Caretha]

57. Glass–Steagall Act anyone?

President Bill Clinton publicly declared "the Glass–Steagall law is no longer appropriate" and we know what happened then -

The best damn republican president since Eisenhower. Right of Eisenhower, but still....

[Beacool]

97. Which passed with overwhelming support from both parties and was veto proof.

[proverbialwisdom]

58. "Bill Clinton, Chris Christie talk Hurricane Sandy recovery at Chicago conference."

Last edited Sat Jun 15, 2013, 03:42 PM - Edit history (5)

http://www.northjersey.com/news/Christie_to_join_three_Clintons_at_jobs_conference.html?page=all

Christie to join Bill Clinton in Chicago at jobs forum; skips conservative GOP event

THURSDAY, JUNE 13, 2013 LAST UPDATED: THURSDAY JUNE 13, 2013, 10:23 PM
BY ANTHONY CAMPISI
STATE HOUSE BUREAU
THE RECORD

- See more at: http://www.northjersey.com/news/Christie_to_join_three_Clintons_at_jobs_conference.html?page=all#sthash.vVfdT0ZX.dpuf

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/06/bill_clinton_interviews_gov_chris_christie.html#incart_m-rpt-1

Bill Clinton, Chris Christie talk Hurricane Sandy recovery at Chicago conference

PHOTO
Gov. Chris Christie and former President Bill Clinton speak backstage today before the interview in Chicago. (Twitter)

By Jenna Portnoy/The Star-Ledger
on June 14, 2013 at 6:31 PM, updated June 14, 2013 at 7:01 PM

CHICAGO — Former President Bill Clinton sat down with Gov. Chris Christie today to talk about New Jersey's recovery from Hurricane Sandy — touching on the state's emotional connection to the Shore, the need for another source of flood insurance, and the governor's famous "get the hell off the beach" comment.

The interview closed out a three-day conference in Chicago held by the Clinton Global Initiative, the organization Clinton founded.

Sandy devastated New Jersey — especially its shoreline — last fall, leaving million without power and seriously damaging hundreds of thousands of homes. In all, New Jersey suffered $39 billion in property damage.

Before introducing Christie on stage, Clinton said the governor got well-deserved praise for how he handles Sandy.

<>

Oh?

http://www.wolfenotes.com/2013/05/nj-media-again-miss-the-point-on-christies-sandy-climate-remarks/
http://www.law360.com/articles/432825/nj-gov-nixes-project-labor-agreements-in-sandy-rebuilding
http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2005/092005/cray.html

[DonCoquixote]

61. Why the Hell should CC get so much praise

for NOT turning the lives of his constituents into a political football? I realize that is standard procedure in Texas or New Orleans, but has NJ gone so far right this is the best we can get? Did that many rich assholes move in from Manhattan?

What is sick is that i can see how this will read, you will have the center right candidate the GOP cannot stand, being CC. You will have the Pauls try to make sure the GOP has to pander to the Fascist/Ayn Rand types, then you have the center left type, either Hillary or Cory Booker, who our base cannot stand, and once again, the moral will be that Voting does not mean crap, because Wall Street will get all it wants.

[proverbialwisdom]

66. Assumption is debatable, dubious, take your pick, but the sports metaphor applies, as in PLAY BALL.

Why the Hell should CC get so much praise for NOT turning the lives of his constituents into a political football?

FICTION.

[AgingAmerican]

104. Obama has praised him too

Obama also praised Bush: Obama praises Bush for 'strength,' 'resolve' after Sept. 11

President Obama Praises George W. Bush at New Library - calls him a 'good man'

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

59. The Funny Uncle is still triangulating.

[UTUSN]

60. R#62 & K for, YIP, Bill you placed your CARNAL power ABOVE our AGENDA, so SHUT UP. N/T

[AgingAmerican]

62. I love Bill Clinton

He da man!

[Skip Intro]

63. Are you actually blaming Clinton for Obama's war-like moves on Syria?

Obama's making the decisions, not Bill Clinton.

And Bill's got as much right to voice an opinion as you do.

He's not your property.

"the Funny Uncle that molested us when we were kids" -

smh

[DonCoquixote]

68. actually yes I am

If he, who has the ear of his former SoS, is criticizing Obama for not being warlike enough, yes, that is worthy of blame!

And no, he is not our property, but he does get tax dollars and speaking fees because he can claim to speak FOR US. He claims to speak for the Democrats, many of whom are gagging at this!

[Skip Intro]

70. I am surprised he said something like that.

But Obama is the president. He makes the decisions. Not Bill Clinton.

[KoKo]

93. He said Obama was a "Wuss" for not dealing with Syria..

The whole quote was posted here on DU. The day after he was quoted Obama announced that Assad had "crossed the red line" and further investigation showed that Assad had used chemical weapons.

In the Bloomberg live interview I saw with Clinton yesterday (at his Clinton Global Initiative Conference) he was discussing foreign policy saying that "we need to have a secure country like Jordon to get our weaponry across border to rebels." Article was out yesterday that Jordan will be our "base" to supply weapons to Rebels in Syria.

It's like Bill is actively "in the loop" if he speaks and Obama announces policy shortly after.
I think he nudged Obama with his "wuss" comment.

He's always hanging around Obama. Remember the Press Conference where Obama turned the Podium over to Bill saying he had a "lunch date with the First Lady?" Clinton then rambled on taking questions from the Press. There have been other Clinton "interventions" but, don't have time to jog memory right now.

[Beacool]

96. He's always hanging around Obama?

It's more that Obama sought his advice. Or how did you think he got to the press room's podium, climbed the WH fence and photo bombed the event?

[KoKo]

101. Usually if Presidents seek advice from Former Presidents...

they do it discreetly. They don't walk off in the middle of a Press Conference and turn their Presidential Podium over to the former President.

[Beacool]

109. That was Obama's choice.

[DainBramaged]

85. ......

aND HOW MUCH HATE DO YOU HAVE FOR gEORGE w. bUSH, OR IS HE INNOCENT IN YOUR VISION OF THE WORLD?

[DonCoquixote]

125. More than you know

Which is all the more reason I want Democrats to make a CLEAN, COMPLETE BREAK from his Policies.

[AgingAmerican]

105. So Obama's policies and decisions are Bill Clintons fault?

Pitifully pathetic.

[DonCoquixote]

211. not all, but

considering that after Bill mad this speech, we are now arming the same syrian rebels that will help Iran in 5 years, Bill has enough, which is to say, too damn much.

[AgingAmerican]

214. "Not at all but"

"it's his fault"

[DonCoquixote]

218. so

The article posted shows how Bill went against Obama, Obama followed after being called a "wuss", and you argue Bill has no influence. Please. Then again, since you argued that Obama "is to the right of reagan" and then admitted Hillary is not to the left of Obama, I guess that means you like Hillary because she is to the right of reagan?

[allin99]

196. Why do you act like Obama is Bill's puppet, do you realize how weak you are saying obama is?

that he takes actions because Bill says so. He would be sick to hear you say that he does things cuz bill says so.

[Nye Bevan]

72. Comparing Bill Clinton to a child molester?

Classy.

[AgingAmerican]

106. Apparently decisions Obama made weeks ago are Bills fault too

Because of a statement Bill made a couple days ago.

Bigotry makes people say stupid things.

[DonCoquixote]

119. and you do not think

Bill or Hillary made their opinion clear weeks ago?

Besides, check your idea of bigotry. I find the fact that we are going to help kill yet another bunch of Arabs bigotry, especially after we have hard, solid proof that getting involved in Middle eastern conflicts is a bad idea. To see examples of proof, volunteer at a VA, even if it is just to help upkeep the cemetery.

[AgingAmerican]

124. Obama has his own brain

contrary to your claims. If you don't like what he is doing, find the courage to criticize him for it.

[DonCoquixote]

127. I do

And that criticism is "Damn it, if I wanted Hillary, I would have voted for her in 2000, stop acting like you are a Clinton!"

[Beacool]

138. Always in denial about Obama, huh?

Yeah, it's never the saintly Obama's fault. it's always the meanie Clintons who make him do things that he opposes.

Poor baby..........



What happened, Obama's not "transformational" enough for some of you? He had the hubris to think that he was so special that he could transform DC just by the sheer force of his presence. If he had been around DC longer than 2 years, he would have known that the contrary is true.

[DonCoquixote]

144. Always in denial about Clinton, huh?

We need DC transformed, and we knew that the Clintons were NOT going to do that.

Our disappointment with Obama is that he is acting just like Clinton, using the failed old GOP-Decaf model that has allowed the GOP to take control, despite the fact they wrecked the economy, our standards, and everything else FDR built.

And if experience on how DC works built a better nation, we would have had a better country to show for it, instead, it is the very experienced DC movers who seem to be making sure Rome keeps burning while the lobbyists fiddle. I see the same talking heads I did back in 1992, and sadly,they do not change the tune.

I know that we will disagree, although I wills ay that yes, if after the bloody, nasty primary, Hillary emerges (and please do not engage in that "she has not said she will run sophistry, we all know what her TBD tweet meant), yes, I will be right beside you in the Hillary 2016 HQ, though I will think of it as the "please please not Jeb or Christie! HQ." Yes, I used a painful image, but yes, a lot of my generation, and the younger Millennial, do indeed feel used, betrayed and damaged, because the person that embraced us early on turned on us hard! Clinton was the first vote for many of us, our first entry into politics, and as cynical as we are, part of us really would love it if either Bill, or even Hillary, or Obama, would stop trying so damned hard to woo the folks with the Elephants.

The same damned Elephants like John McCain, that exploited his friendship with Hillary, only to promote Palin, a woman that was a mockery of Hillary. The same people that chum it up with Bill, and then stir up the Tea party so that they call for killing uppity women and minorities, guns in hand.

Again, I will say this. If Hillary was to admit the DLC push was wrong, to call for Glass Steagall, to call for less H1-bs instead of more, I would be thrilled. With all the eagerness of Charlie brown running to kick the football from Lucy's hands, I would run. While I have gone more leftist as the 21st century has festered, I do want a liberal champion in the mainstream, not a bunch of Naders that will do their little faux shamanic drum session and feel self-righteous no matter if the country burns.

But where the hell do the comprises stop?

Once we shovel the next few thousand soldiers into yet another Mid-East war?
Once the Keystone pipeline does a spill that makes Deepwater Horizon look like a supermarket clean up?
Once the next great "compromise"is made that the GOP gets miles and Miles out of?

When does it stop?

[Beacool]

173. I'll say to you what a journalist from Chicago thought about Obama from the very start.

The reporter watched Obama climb up the Chicago political ladder. He was intrigued by this young, AA guy like himself who was very smart and charismatic. By 2007 he had come to the conclusion that Obama was an opportunist. Remember the Alice Palmer story? That's Obama in a nutshell. Kissed up to anyone who could get him up the political ladder and then backstabbed them, aside from Palmer, Rev. Wright comes to mind. So don't talk to me about Obama as if somehow he is purer than the Clintons, he is not.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/29/obamas.first.campaign/

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/04/once-obamas-men.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2011/11/02/obama-kick-back-cronyism-part-2-illinois-health-and-human-disservices/

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/The-Godfather-Took-a-Hit-for-Obama-96140239.html

[DonCoquixote]

188. So, in your world

Hillary would have been to the left of Obama?
Kindly tell me where the former WalMart exec would have raised wages or cut down in H1-b visas?
Kindly tell me where she would have put back Glass-Steagall?
Kindly tell me that she would, unlike Obama, would have realized the insurance mandate was a stupid idea? Heck, she could have even gained points for saying her idea was stupid, but did not.

The fact is, you can rip on Obama all day long, because he ruined your FANTASY of what Hillary was, but you cannot produce one instance where she even turned away from the rightward push her Hubby's admin made. Indeed, she could have run to Obama's left, but did NOT, she could actually still make a run to the left, but will not.

I have never denied Hillary was a fighter, or skilled, I just want to be sure that her fighting skills are not aimed at my backside so that she can keep courting her 'friends' like the GOP.

[Beacool]

189. I'm not talking about her.

My point is that those who chose him because they thought that he was far more progressive than the Clintons are now disavowed of that notion. He said it himself: "I am like a Rorschach test," he said in an interview with The New York Times. "Even if people find me disappointing ultimately, they might gain something."

People saw what they wanted to see.

[DonCoquixote]

190. well

If Hillary wants to show herself to be a progressive, she has the means now to do exactly that, even it does mean giving Bill a long deserved swat on the nose. I also say that while I have not been shy about expressing my sentiments, I will be the first to pour champagne if she does just that.

[AgingAmerican]

192. Hillary is far, far to the left of Obama

Obama is to the right of Reagan.

[DonCoquixote]

195. are you serious?

Miss "I killed Gaddafi" a leftist?
Miss "Mandatory Insurance purchase" a leftist?
Miss 'welfare reform" a leftist?

Please..

[AgingAmerican]

206. I didn't say she was a leftist

I said she was far, far to the left of Obama.

[Whisp]

199. you are still soooooo angry...

I'm sure the Clinton's are as well. It shows in many ways.

but too bad, so sad.

maybe they can find someone to invent and buy a time machine to go back and do a better job of campaigning and have a chance at winning and not making complete fools out of themselves in the rerun.

[Beacool]

132. It's never Obama's fault.

Last edited Sat Jun 15, 2013, 05:13 PM - Edit history (1)

It's always someone else's fault. If two days after Bill Clinton voiced his opinions on an issue Obama takes up that issue, it doesn't mean that he did so because Clinton spoke on it. These kind of decisions take time. Therefore, the WH's announcement must have been in the planning for some time now. That doesn't seem to deter people from trashing Clinton though.

[karynnj]

168. I don't blame Clinton - or credit Clinton - for anything Obama does

I do hold Clinton responsible for what he says with his own mouth.

I remember in 2007 and 2008, when Clinton tried to reinvent where he was on Iraq - and among other things argued that as a former President, he did not think it appropriate to question the actions of a sitting President. How do you explain that he feels free to completely trash Obama - saying clearly that polls were the reason he wasn't all in on giving weapons to the Syrians? Contrast that with saying in 2004, that it was wrong of "those on the left" criticizing the way the Iraq war was being done - like our de facto nominee, who he at least did not name or say he was a "wuss".

Another question, if he KNEW it was in the works, why go on the rant about he would be a "wuss" if he didn't. Whether he knew or not, I would have no problem if he JUST spoke to the issue and said what to do. What he did with the poll nonsense was to say Obama was craven and I think the Wuss nonsense needs no explanation.

If anyone questioned why making Hillary SoS was a great political move, they should see it now. It was possibly the only way to keep Bill Clinton helpful, rather than a negative.

[Beacool]

171. I didn't say that he knew what Obama was about to do.

I'm referring to the posted article. It suggested that Obama acted two days later because of what Clinton said. That's pure B.S.

BTW, there was no rants and Clinton was talking about leadership in general and that leaders can't go by the polls. He wasn't specifically pointing the finger at Obama, although that's how the media is reporting it.

Naming Hillary was a great political move, but not for the reasons you stated.

[karynnj]

178. Context is everything

He said it while speaking of Syria. It was not a stand alone soliloquy. I did not say that Obama acted because of what Clinton said. THAT would be being dumber than following the polls - which at least respect what people want.

Whether or not something is a rant is opinion - and I think that whole wuss/polls nonsense was.

Good political move for Hillary - yes.

[David__77]

78. Right. This isn't 1992 any more.

The center-right-led coalition resulting in Clinton's election in 1992 was preferable to the alternative of a Bush presidency (not sure if was preferable to a Perot presidency actually). But the country has changed, and the DLC-type elites are not an acceptable force to lead any sort of progressive coalition in this era. They belong with the party of the right.

[KoKo]

118. It's the hindsight that is the change in viewpoint.

I've posted before that I defended Clinton so much that I lost a couple of dear friends over it. I never believed that there was a "blue dress." Thought Monica a liar and the "Starr Chamber" and Mellon-Scaife were destroying the country.

Alas...in hindsight it was the De-Regulation and Neo Lib policies that just haven't worked that are his legacy that Bush II then continued and Obama is yet to be seen.

But, he was the Best Choice at that time...and I truly thought he would be the Hope we were waiting for. (country was in bad shape losing jobs and Japan was blamed). I was as huge a supporter of him throughout his Presidency as the most strident Obama supporters here on DU are these days. But, I learned afterwards.

[DonCoquixote]

121. I agree

Was he the best choice we had back in 1992? However, this is NOT 1992. In 20 years, we have gone from loved to hated, rich to poor, without peer to one with many rivals, including, but not limited to, the Chinese. This is a hotter, smaller world we are in.

And to be fair, it is not that Bill is merely trying to speak over Obama, or even that his wife is very, very silent about this (come on Hillary, doesn't Bill owe you some time holding the microphone?)

It is that both the statements I linked shows Bill trying to pull things FIRMLY TO THE RIGHT, at a time when there are enough forces pulling in that direction.

I will admit, when Joe Biden forced Obama to confront marriage equality, I enjoyed it, enough that I almost wanted the two of them to switch jobs, but that is because frankly, Obama listens too much to those that want the Democrats to be Goldwater Republicans, especially the Clinton-era staff he surrounds himself with.

[DainBramaged]

83. Here comes the hate

so sad. Rick Perry vetoes equal pay in Texas and you folks spew shit about the ex-President.



How fucking sad.

[Beacool]

128. It's like catnip to some here.

Post anything on a Clinton and they'll trip over themselves to come and post something vile.

[DainBramaged]

129. Back in the day, they'd be eating granite

today, coddled and encouraged.


Haters of the Left are simply tools of the Right....

[Beacool]

134. You said it.

Sometimes I read the exact same thing here that I would see at the Freepers' site. It's crazy.

[DainBramaged]

137. These are the people who HATED Hillary with a passion in 2008 claiming Obama was purer

and look how that worked out for them....

It will get worse as she gets closer to announcing her run for the Presidency, a I truly think many of them aren't Democrats, Liberals, or Progressives by any stretch of the imagination, simply here to stir up shit.

[DonCoquixote]

154. eating granite

Is that your idea of democracy?

[a kennedy]

84. I never voted for him.....and I agree, Bill, STFU eom

[AgingAmerican]

107. Did you vote for Bush and Dole?

n/t

[a kennedy]

142. Hate to say but I voted for nader both times.....

and I am terribly sorry.

[Beacool]

88. This is the kind of OP that has driven away in droves Clinton supporters from DU.

I don't know which one is more disgusting, everything written after the attached link or many of the comments.

FYA!!!!!!

[DainBramaged]

115. We've made a Right turn and aren't going back

this is bullshit, hiding the thread, ignoring the OP. Stupid bullshit thread.

[DonCoquixote]

126. You wish

beware if people realize that the right turn can be turned away from. We will need to do just that if we do not want countries to our left, like China and Germany, to eat our lunch.

[Beacool]

130. Yes, it is, but that's DU for you.

Although, I don't hide nor alert on anyone. Unlike many here, I do believe in freedom of expression.

[Nine]

90. Thumbs down on this thread. (nt)

[LWolf]

92. Agree with most, except

that I think Obama is further to the right on most issues than Clinton.

[DonCoquixote]

120. I wish that were true

but that does not seem likely. Granted, Hillary could easily clarify things by speaking out on these issues herself, rather than trot her husband out. Especially Keystone, really Hillary, it's not like the department you headed as madame Secretary had nothing to say about that.

[LWolf]

133. It's true, at least when I look at his record.

Hillary is not on my radar. She's another neoliberal, which means she's not on my list of politicians to support.

[tularetom]

117. Clinton is too stupid or too egotistical and insecure to realize that he's being used

by people like McCain to undermine Obama.

I don't think "useful idiot" is how he wants to be remembered.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

122. Last gasp of the DLC.

[reorg]

123. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Clinton is trying to do Obama a favor

Very good OP, I agree with everything except that you left out his first implementation of "humanitarian" intervention in Yugoslavia.

[karynnj]

139. I don't for the following reason

Last edited Sat Jun 15, 2013, 03:51 PM - Edit history (1)

There is NO way it helps Obama.

First off, he assumes as fact that the reason Obama has been reluctant is public polls. What chutzpah that anyone taking a position that disagrees with Bill's is doing so for reasons other than thinking it best for the country and the world. Second, he engages in the idiotic idea that one is a "wuss" if they are unwilling to expand a war. Obama's position - even now- is that they want a political solution to limit the blood shed. Is that why he never criticized Bush's lying the country war in 2003? I guess he was impressed that Bush was not a wuss.

Also, let's look at how it plays had Obama made either choice.

1) Let's assume that Obama did not move to give military aid. If Assad vanquished the rebels, Clinton would claim that had Obama listened to him or earlier to Hillary Clinton, Syria would have a nice democracy under the rebels - a veritable paradise on earth. If Syria is still a mess in 2015/2016, again Obama was wrong and we should have gone in earlier or with more. Even if the rebels won and established an Islamic state, he would argue that it would have been more moderate had we done exactly what he was thinking.

2) Let's assume that Obama soon provides military aid and things get worse - it was because Obama waited too long or did too little. If Obama agrees to a no fly zone and it pulls us into an even worse conflict than Iraq, it is because Obama did it wrong. If aid allows the rebels to have a better position, they suddenly become a cohesive group and expel the Al Qaeda foreign fighters and they then agree (and Assad does as well) to do Geneva 2 and to find a political solution, Clinton will claim that it was HIS push that made Obama go in the right direction. (ie Clinton = wise, foreign policy statesman ALPHA male; Obama is the inexperienced, naive person who lucked into the Presidency. )

This is a long term power move. The intent is that no matter what, Clinton wins. Add in that the media is already including in all stories that Clinton added his voice to McCain's - and implying that they (the media's two BFF) pushed Obama to do this. In addition, whatever happened to Clinton's excuse (2007 vintage) that former Presidents resist commenting on the sitting President - especially on foreign policy. I guess that is just when your wife is running for President and you did not speak out when you were likely the only Democrat who could have had a megaphone to speak against rushing to war in 2003 - and that is an issue hurting her in the Democratic primaries.

[DonCoquixote]

146. OUCH

Your reply cuts to the point better than I could have, thank you.

[Whisp]

148. Romney did what Clinton is doing

and I didn't see anyone here defending the Myth on that one.

[DonCoquixote]

131. allow me this link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023022353

Excellent job, Atomic Kitten.

[ctsnowman]

166. Thanks for the link.

[AtomicKitten]

219. thanks

cheers

[gtar100]

140. He's a better republican than most republicans. Great salesman too.

I'd take him any day over any Bush but yes he has a very flawed record when it comes to economic policies and the repercussions they've had on us.

But damn is he a good salesman!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

145. LOL

why is bill clinton being blamed for the actions OBama is making?

[DonCoquixote]

147. I am blaming for him the words shown in my links

especially the "wuss" language that frankly was grade school language.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

149. if you consider his words to be more valuable than Obama's actions

that you are prioritizing the wrong person.

Bill Clinton is a private citizen and has every right to voice any damned opinions he pleases. He is not in any office i voted for, so frankly it doesn't matter.

Maybe if you are mad at Obama, you should not take it out on Bill.

[DonCoquixote]

151. I am mad at Obama for listening to them

But do you honestly think that his undermining Obama;s policy, especially on the Keystone pipeline, is just a coincidence, especially as Hillary is running? You think the oil companies are not waiting for Obama to be out so Hillary can giver them what they want?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

155. poor helpless little obama traumatized by the power of the big bad clintons

last i knew the actual president of the united states had more power than a president from years ago

[Beacool]

175. In their eyes, when Obama veers in a direction that they don't like,

it's always somebody else's fault. It could never be the fault of the man they put so many dreams, and dare we say, hope in. Remember all the "hope and change" B.S.? That's precisely what it was, campaign B.S.

So it's easier to blame anyone else, particularly the dastardly Clintons, for any move Obama makes that's not considered progressive enough by the Left. His vote on FISA, barely a month after he clenched the nomination, should have clued them in.

[allin99]

198. it's the most insulting thing i've read here about obama.

(not your post, the posts about obama just following what clinton says).

[Whisp]

200. Obama is smarter than Clinton

and a better person overall, I might add.

but Clinton is the shifty bastard in the way the Pugs are with obstruction and the kinds of things they do.

[allin99]

201. lol. so smart that obama does whatever he says...

you guys need to make up your mind. He's clinton's bitch, or a clinton-like warmonger. could be both, but can't be neither.

[Whisp]

202. time will tell us more. Obama is smarter than Clinton

He is a distance runner, Clinton sprints and puffs.

It wouldn't surprise me that one of Clinton's moles leaked the information to Clinton a couple days before the official announcement and Clinton used it the way he did to undermine Obama and at the same time puff Hillitary up for running.

anyway, Clinton(s) should just go away and STFU - hopefully someone with Obama's type of character gets the win in 16 and carry things forward, instead of Hillitary getting in and undoing what good he has done.

[allin99]

203. i guess all the posts calling obama a follower of bill...

stand until the more time you need to figure out whether bill is or is not that cause of obama's doing something. The lack of logic on some of these 'obama's going into syria b/c of bill' posts is quite bizarre.

[Beacool]

205. Obama is smarter than Bill Clinton????

In your dreams, sweetie!!! LOL!!!



BTW, I think that Obama is very smart, but I don't think that he's smarter than Clinton. I would say that both are about the same level.

[Whisp]

207. lol. I think I'm letting this one go.

I just let the dog out to pee and waiting for him and came here for a minute and see this ping pong silliness.

rough week I guess for the both of us.

[mtasselin]

153. Time

It's about time more people speak up about Bill, he did many bad things to our country, getting away from Glass/Steagall to name just one, and it would be foolish to think that it is going to be any deferent with Hillary, but she is our only choice if she makes it that far I pref err Elizabeth Warren.

[ctsnowman]

157. I see all the

"but sarin gas" useless posts. The numbers that we claim, may be right (at least for now), are 100 to 150 dead from it. How is it so much worse to die from it than say white phosphorous rounds or being gut shot and bleeding out? (which we use) The media keeps beating this drum just like they always have. Let Chelsea get her ass over there if it's so GD important.

Thanks for the thread.

Peace.

[cynatnite]

174. Blah, blah, blah...

and in a few months half of DU will be praising him as the best Dem ever.

This stuff never gets old at DU.

[craigmatic]

177. Clinton is good at pushing war when he's not in charge but I seem to remember a little country

called Rwanda where he did nothing.

[Beacool]

179. And that's precisely his point.

He has said on the record that his biggest regret was Rwanda.

[craigmatic]

212. Yeah so now he's overcompensating by being militant at every turn.

[AgingAmerican]

215. He hasn't been president for 13 years

You are being ridiculous.

[craigmatic]

217. Am I? This is part of a pattern of behavior. He supported the war in Iraq in 2003.

[Whisp]

216. that's his problem and his guilt

he doesn't need to shift it on everyone else.

what an ego! No Bill, we are not here to support or settle your debts with your own conscience. You handle it yourself, big boy.