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Tue Jun 11, 2013, 08:36 PM

What If Richard Nixon Had Had Your E-Mail Password?

If he were President right now, Richard Nixon would absolutely adore today's National Security Agency. Nixon would be able to snoop, shadow and spy at will. He could read your e-mail; see what you've googled; check out your browsing history; find out whom you called, who called you, when you spoke and for how long; and know where you are at every moment, because of that GPS chip in your phone.

And he wouldn't have to offer that lame, barefaced excuse that there was a Communist hiding under your bed. No, all he'd have to say is that there is a terrorist hiding under your bed.

(Maybe you need a bed that's closer to the floor. But then you'd have to watch out for the rats.)

When I was a kid, I sure didn't trust Tricky Dick. But as I grew up, I realized that the problem went well beyond The Trickmeister. He was simply exploiting spytech to its fullest. I learned that President Eisenhower had spied on Eleanor Roosevelt, that J. Edgar Hoover had recorded Martin Luther King Jr.'s private conversations, and that Lyndon Johnson had enlisted the FBI's assistance during his 1964 campaign. For almost a century, the federal government has used surveillance to keep tabs on civil rights, environmentalist, and antiwar activism. Spying on us: it's the one thing that Republicans and Democrats seem to agree on. It's bipartisan. It's as American as apple spy.

That's one reason why the revelations over the past few days of near-universal government surveillance are so disturbing.  Microsoft, Google, Apple – they're all in on it. Former NSA official William Binney has said that we are "on a slippery slope to a totalitarian state." I don't know what's worse: that I'm not sure he's right, or that I'm not sure he's wrong.

Fortunately, I'm a Member of Congress, so I can do something about it. And you are likely an American citizen and voter, which means that you can help.

I'm introducing a bill that I call the "Mind Your Own Business Act". This bill prohibits our government from spying on us, or collecting data on us, unless there's probable cause that you have committed or you will commit an act of terrorism or similar criminal offense.

I submitted this provision as an amendment to the House Rules Committee today. I am attempting to attach it to the National Defense Authorization Act, which will come up for a vote in the House later this week. Sign your name here to show your support for the Mind Your Own Business Act:

http://MindYourOwnBusinessAct.com/

You'd have to be nuts to think that it's necessary to inquire into the personal web browsing habits, telephone calls and physical location of 320 million Americans in order to keep us safe. What's next – are we going to try to prevent hijackings by all flying naked?

Are we going to ban forks and knives? And if so, then how will we eat spaghetti?

Mass indiscriminate surveillance is a necessary ingredient in tyranny. It's also an utterly inefficient means to protect us.  Osama Bin Laden routinely sent e-mails for years, completely evading the NSA. Here's how he did it (pay attention, would-be terrorists): He wrote up e-mails, saved them on a $10 thumb drive, and had some lackey send them from a web cafe in Pakistan. Maybe the reason why the NSA couldn't find Osama Bin Laden's e-mails was that they were too busy spying on everyone else in the world. They're the gang that couldn't snoop straight.

Ben Franklin said that "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Leaving aside those quirky initial caps, I agree wholeheartedly.

We didn't give up our constitutional rights 150 years ago, when 1,000,000 heavily armed soldiers rose up in rebellion.  Those rebs had cannon, the nuclear weapon of the 19th century. Why should we give up our constitutional rights when a small number of barely armed men on the other side of the world, garbed in sheets, try to threaten us?

We have preserved our freedom and our rights for the past half-century, with over 10,000 nuclear warheads pointed right at us – enough to kill all of us even if we were like cats, and had nine lives. Why should we forsake our freedom and our rights now?

This is not North Korea. This is not Maoist China. This is not East Germany. This is the United States of America. If we put the word "Freedom" on our stamps, then we should put it in our lives, too.

For God's sake, we are not cattle. We Are Human Beings!

You're innocent until you're proven guilty, and therefore you ought to be un-snooped until you do something wrong. Let's force the NSA to stop snooping -- join me:

http://MindYourOwnBusinessAct.com/

]Courage,

Rep. Alan Grayson

"Everybody knows the scene is dead.
There's gonna be a meter on your bed.
That will disclose
What everybody knows."

-Leonard Cohen, "Everybody Knows" (1988).

P.S. Please, please, please forward this to your friends, and urge them to sign the petition.

235 replies, 15738 views

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Reply What If Richard Nixon Had Had Your E-Mail Password? (Original post)
Alan Grayson Jun 2013 OP
Whisp Jun 2013 #1
Cha Jun 2013 #10
Whisp Jun 2013 #15
Cha Jun 2013 #17
Andy823 Jun 2013 #35
wandy Jun 2013 #42
midnight Jun 2013 #177
Maraya1969 Jun 2013 #192
midnight Jun 2013 #211
DCKit Jun 2013 #12
Andy823 Jun 2013 #30
loyalsister Jun 2013 #37
Whisp Jun 2013 #40
SidDithers Jun 2013 #45
greytdemocrat Jun 2013 #134
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #179
SidDithers Jun 2013 #181
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #182
SidDithers Jun 2013 #184
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #185
SidDithers Jun 2013 #186
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #189
WHEN CRABS ROAR Jun 2013 #212
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #232
SidDithers Jun 2013 #233
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #234
SidDithers Jun 2013 #235
WHEN CRABS ROAR Jun 2013 #209
treestar Jun 2013 #64
Whisp Jun 2013 #68
treestar Jun 2013 #69
msanthrope Jun 2013 #164
sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #94
WHEN CRABS ROAR Jun 2013 #214
mbperrin Jun 2013 #217
Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #139
mbperrin Jun 2013 #218
NightWatcher Jun 2013 #2
LineLineReply .
one_voice Jun 2013 #54
leftstreet Jun 2013 #3
Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #4
DLevine Jun 2013 #5
Whisp Jun 2013 #6
Cha Jun 2013 #11
NightWatcher Jun 2013 #14
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datasuspect Jun 2013 #158
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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 08:39 PM

1. woah, just a wee bit over the top, no?

This is not North Korea. This is not Maoist China.

wtf? Everybody's jumping on the wagon.
Come back and post next week when things clear up and the truth gets a chance.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 08:57 PM

10. Yeah, FEAR is the fucking order of the day.. some are jumping on that bandwagon

while it's HOT, Whisp.. and others like Senator Al Franken are not.

I respect and trust the Senator waaay more than I do fearmongers.. "we're all human beings not cattle!".. and the lying glenn greenwalds.

They're acting like cattle.

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Response to Cha (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:05 PM

15. I would like to know

that if Alan Grayson becomes President, like some here think he should be and solve everything, how he would go about changing what is to what he thinks should be. Would he suddenly come upon these awesome powers and be able to do this all on his own?

lordy.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:11 PM

17. I don't think that's in the realm of possibility.. but, that's a

good question. It's so easy to rage on those who actually have the job of protecting people while balancing civil liberties.

I trust Pres Obama and VP Biden to do their job.. they're not out to Screw the American people. I don't care what the whiners on the intertubes say.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:35 PM

35. Good question.

Without congress doing "their" job no president would be able to change this. Sadly our congress isn't doing "their" job so until they do, things will stay the same.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:41 PM

42. Why he would use the same supernatural powers attributed to Obama and Super Chicken to fight........

republican obstructionism, multi national corporations, and the general overall I don't give a fu** attitude held by far to many Americans.

Barack, quick use you're Super Vision to get us out of this mess.
Mr. Biden, if I had any supervision we wouldn't be here.

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Response to Cha (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:03 PM

177. Al Franken is eating real well today, but not the family he voted to reduce there meager food

allotment of food share... Trust is a hollow word for the hungry...

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Response to midnight (Reply #177)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 04:31 PM

192. It's not that simple but you can take action.

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/why-did-democrats-vote-against-food-stamp-f

In his Rewrite segment Wednesday night, Lawrence O'Donnell tackled a Republican lawmaker's nonsense with regard to the farm bill and SNAP funding. But he danced around the question of why Democrats like Al Franken and Tom Harkin join with Republicans to defeat an amendment restoring funds to the food stamp program. Surely they don't believe that stupid quote about those unwilling to work should not eat, especially when they know the ones hit the hardest are children. So why not vote to restore those funds?

Answer: Farm subsidies. (Third rail, sacred cow, etc.) Senator Kirsten Gillibrand had introduced an amendment to the farm bill restoring $4.5 billion in funding to the SNAP program and reducing crop insurance reimbursements to providers.

It's not that Democrats oppose restoration of funds to the SNAP program, you see. It's that they don't want any subsidy to farmers -- direct or indirect -- to be reduced. As O'Donnell explains in this segment, farm subsidies and their ugly stepsisters like crop insurance reimbursements take precedence over everything, even though they are the absolute worst form of socialism there is.


And petition here: http://campaigns.dailykos.com/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=423

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #192)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:58 PM

211. Thank you for this thoughtful take on a thoughtless cut....

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Response to Whisp (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:00 PM

12. I thought so too... but they're doing it anyway.

 

As old as he is, I've heard that Henry is in a constant state of orgasm since 9/11. Somehow, it seems to be prolonging his life.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:28 PM

30. Amen to that! nt

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Response to Whisp (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:37 PM

37. Yeah

My question is - why would he want it?

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #37)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:39 PM

40. I didn't get that part about Nixon eating spaghetti with his hands in North Korea? n/t

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Response to Whisp (Reply #40)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:43 PM

45. Maybe Grayson's staffers were into the Chablis tonight...



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #45)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 07:23 AM

134. Ha!

Mr. Hit & Run is back. Is he asking for $$$???

And "Mind Your Own Business Act" is he serious?? JHC...

Why do people worship this clown???

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #45)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:27 PM

179. Just cant help yourself. Go for the ridicule. nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #179)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:33 PM

181. C'mon. That missive is an open invitation to ridicule...

talk about low-hanging fruit.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #181)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:37 PM

182. Interesting how you always seem to be able to justify ridicule.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #182)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:39 PM

184. Seriously. "Are we going to ban forks and knives? And if so, then how will we eat spaghetti?"...

You don't find that an hilarious comment?

Sometimes the comedy just writes itself.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #184)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:43 PM

185. Anything to deflect the discussion. nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #185)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:47 PM

186. Right. My laughing kept this thread from reaching almost 200 replies...

Don't you find it telling that the thread complaining about the responses in this thread has 300 replies?

Seems like Grayson sycophants are doing a pretty good job deflecting the discussion on their own.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #186)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:54 PM

189. Funny thing but those that support Grayson are fighting for an end to spying on Americans.

The Patriot Act and domestic were programs implemented by REpublicans and now being run by Clapper, a Republican. I am against these Republican programs and hate to think what a REpublican president would do with them if not fixed.

Terrorist threats, imagined or real are being used to erode our Constitutional rights. Those supporting Rep Grayson are standing strong with him to reinstate those rights and to resist the strong authoritarian rule.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #186)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 07:00 PM

212. I don't think laughing is a good response to being spied on.

We have lost some of our rights, any thoughts on how to get them back?

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #186)

Thu Jun 13, 2013, 12:21 PM

232. Interesting that you choose Sen Sanders as your avatar. Did you see what he thinks about Snowden?

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=ce874a42-a367-452f-afd0-fe76282426fa

The Snowden narrative matters mostly to White House officials trying to deflect attention from government overreach and deception, and to media executives in search of an easy storyline to serve a celebrity-obsessed audience.


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #232)

Thu Jun 13, 2013, 12:25 PM

233. I chose this avatar because one asshat told another DUer...

that they didn't have the right to use Bernie, given what they've posted.

Fuck that.

Sid




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Response to SidDithers (Reply #233)

Thu Jun 13, 2013, 12:28 PM

234. That's exactly what I thought. Why didnt you just stick your tongue out? nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #234)

Thu Jun 13, 2013, 12:37 PM

235. I did. I even made rude hand gestures...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #181)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:51 PM

209. Is that what's it all about, just an invitation to ridicule?

Just a word-smith game?
any thoughts about spying and how to get private contractors out of it?

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Response to Whisp (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:14 PM

64. Yes it is

Wow, the government has our email passwords? I bet the Chinese and North Koreans don't even have that on their citizens!

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Response to treestar (Reply #64)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:25 PM

68. apparently Mao did!

Gore didn't invent the internet after all, it was the Chairman.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #68)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:28 PM

69. I've been emailing pictures to Chairman Mao

So I ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow

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Response to treestar (Reply #69)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:35 PM

164. It's gonna be all right. nt

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Response to Whisp (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:42 AM

94. No, it is, considering what is going on, very restrained. I am happy to see our Democrats

Like Ron Wyden and Alan Grayson standing by the oath they took when they were sworn into office.

Sometimes it's hard to know where those we worked to elect, stand on this most important issue so I am thrilled to see some Democrats never forgetting the most important duty they have.

Would you like me to post the Oaths of Office for elected officials? And I'd be happy to post the 4th Amendment also.

What IS the truth btw? I read the President's speech and frankly it made me even more concerned, especially the part where he said that 'we cannot be 100% safe unless we give up some of our rights'! WTF indeed. I'm sorry you are upset to see the Dems we supported finally speaking up for our rights and actually DOING something about it.

Grayson is a great Democrat, he makes ME proud to be a Democrat.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #94)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 07:14 PM

214. I agree, I'm pleased to have Wyden as my Sen.

and DeFazio as my Congressman.
Now is the time to stand up and take back our rights, or else watch this country turn into something that we won't recognize.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #94)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:00 PM

217. I agree. He IS a great person, as well!

I do have moments of despair when I see how easily people accept chains.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 09:21 AM

139. +1

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #139)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:02 PM

218. Thank you for saying it well.

As usual, you have it right.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 08:42 PM

2. Nixon can have my passwords. He's stone fucking dead

Hell, Reagan can can have my ATM card number and pin too.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:55 PM

54. .

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 08:44 PM

3. Definitely not East Germany. They had healthcare and jobs n/t

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 08:45 PM

4. thank you

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 08:47 PM

5. Signed the petition, gladly. Thank you so much for fighting the good fight. nt

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 08:48 PM

6. Does your "Mind Your Own Business Act" include corporation data mining as well? n/t

what...

Are we going to ban forks and knives? And if so, then how will we eat spaghetti?

Mr. Grayson, you need another writer.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 08:59 PM

11. And, thank you, Whisp.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:00 PM

14. "Sign my petition" is the new "give me your address to sell"

or solicit for endless donations.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:31 PM

32. Yep

I think everybody already has mine. Is there a way I can get some kind of royalties off them selling my address?

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:32 AM

91. So Grayson is also mining data in his own way?

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #91)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:48 AM

95. Did he secretly monitor your phone and email, or DID HE ASK YOU PUBLICLY

TELLING YOU WHO IS AND WHAT HE IS DOING, GIVING YOU THE OPTION TO SAY YES OR NO!! SORRY TO SHOUT BUT THE UTTER ridiculousness of that comment requires trying to help you distinguish between someone STEALING your info in secret, a total stranger or strangers, we don't even know, not telling you they are doing it or WHY or who they are, and someone who is known to you asking you in public to sign a petition and letting you know who they are, what they want and giving you the option to say no.

Do you understand the difference now? I'll be happy to try to explain it more in depth if you don't.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #95)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:49 AM

96. Yeah, it's no more ridiculous than Grayson's post.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #96)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:55 AM

99. Much more than the violations of our 4th Amendment rights has been revealed by these leaks.

And that is a good thing.

Just signed Rep. Grayson's petition and will be tweeting and emailing and sending it to everyone I know.

It is excellent to see Democrats standing up for our Constitutional Rights, I was beginning to think no one was.

Excellent OP from Rep. Grayson. I guess you didin't read it as you have not commented on it.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #95)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:09 PM

162. "Do you understand the difference now?"...

Doubtful

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Response to Whisp (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:39 PM

75. I hope not.

If it does expect a veto.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 08:50 PM

7. Congress, notably Republicans, can't even get the TSA to stop forcing me to remove my shoes.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 08:51 PM

8. Are you suggesting that Nixon is a Time Traveling Dalek?

Somebody call Dr. Who.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:24 PM

28. Exterminate! Exterminate! nt

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 08:51 PM

9. I would have have made his Enemies List, for sure

Especially as a returned, wounded, Vietnam vet.

FUCK Nixon!

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:00 PM

13. Signed, Shared, Kicked, Recommended, And Thank You Congressman Grayson !!!






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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:06 PM

16. that's why it's important people like Nixon, Reagan , Bush etc don't become President

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Response to JI7 (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:11 PM

18. Pre-Cisely, J.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:22 PM

26. And yet they all were Presidents.

And the republicans who will become Presidents in the future are all fucking Bat Shit crazy.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:49 PM

48. And the GOP is doing everything within their power to put another ReThug in the WH

Obama had sheer numbers, minorities and women to beat the ReThug's maneuverings. We have to make sure that this scandal on his watch doesn't deter liberals from working toward a government that works for all the people.

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Response to siligut (Reply #48)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:22 PM

196. There is a much better way to accomplish that.

The White House should STOP doing things that will "deter liberals" from enthusiastically support DEMOCRATS.
Refusing to help the Republicans build an authoritarian Surveillance/Security State
will inspire support from the much maligned "Liberals".

Harry Truman explained all this:

"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the Fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign."

---President Harry Truman
QED:2010


Leadership! "The Buck Stops HERE!" NO Excuses!

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #196)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:05 PM

219. Thank you!

This mind numbing game playing to placate sociopaths in the Republican party is sending the country and our party to hell.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:13 PM

19. I like this. nt

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:34 AM

119. Ditto. Congressman Grayson is an American hero for taking on & winning against the contractors

I only wish he could get much needed support in Congress. Regardless, he has the support of millions of Americans like me.

I came to this website a decade ago because I felt from what I was reading, that the admins here were good people, and working with them later showed me that to be true, and I think they are very happy that someone like Congressman Grayson is a member! This website has some wonderful members, and he is one of them.

I am very pleased that someone with a voice in DC, who is in my area, has passion and a desire to fight for what is right and just in America. We owe him our gratitude for taking on the war machine's contractors and winning several years back. If he has something to say, I think it behooves us all to listen.

Regards...

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Response to Divine Discontent (Reply #119)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 04:52 AM

123. +100! n/t

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Response to Divine Discontent (Reply #119)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 11:50 PM

228. I totally agree! It's an honor that he posts here.

You are fortunate he is in your area. He's very direct with an abundance of common sense, which to me makes him very trustworthy. He's a real asset to his constituents and his Party.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:13 PM

20. I Wonder If Rep. Grayson Has Ever Been Under A Bus?

Because he sure as hell will get thrown under one now!!

I see the blind defenders are already at it.

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Response to Liberal_Dog (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:19 PM

23. If he hasn't, he is now.

but what the hell, it's a big bus.

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Response to Liberal_Dog (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:33 PM

34. He can always ask the President what living under the bus is like. n/t

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Response to Whisp (Reply #34)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:09 PM

58. Kneeling before his highness with head bowed, of course. n/t

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Response to Skip Intro (Reply #58)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:11 PM

62. I'm not sure which highness you mean. Seems to be two we are talking about.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #62)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:16 PM

65. The one you're slamming the Congressman for daring to speak ill of. n/t

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Response to Skip Intro (Reply #65)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:21 PM

66. but slamming democratic politicians is good sport here, isn't it?

yeah, I know it's strange, but ever since Boosh left office it's the thing to do for a selected few and they never go off message. So why are you so upset now?

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Response to Whisp (Reply #66)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:33 PM

73. Some things transcend party, and demanding others worship


ANY politician or face personal attacks is as sad and creepy an effort as I've seen.

I am glad to see it wilt.

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Response to Skip Intro (Reply #73)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:37 PM

74. who decides these things. you?

do you think Grayson deserves respect here and the President does not, at least not as much? I may have misunderstood but that is what I came away with, with what you said.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #74)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:00 PM

79. Respect does not mean blind faith and deification,


backed by an apparent policy to attack the character of those who refuse to play along.

Willful self-delusion and demands that others buy in or shut up is not respect either.

The idea of arguing that certain politicians be above criticism or being questioned, I mean, we're not subjects and Obama is not a king.

I value freedom, and I value truth.

I'm interested in knowing the truth, the complete truth.

I want to know if and how badly the rights of the people were violated by those who were sworn to protect it.

Protection of our Constitutional rights is far more important than ANY politician.


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Response to Skip Intro (Reply #79)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:37 PM

84. Obama is not above critcism or questioning here on DU. you jest?

Rights and violations of rights is important, that goes without saying. But what I see is a group that makes every 'scandal' the last straw and treat each story that the repuglicans and the media feed as the worst abuse of a Presidency ever. Even worse than Bush.

So how am I to take any of this seriously when you get upset about some mild little nothing criticisms about Grayson's post?

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Response to Liberal_Dog (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:38 PM

39. I see the call has gone out..

Quick!! Grayson's not being worshipped!!! Everyone get there, stat!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022996639



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #39)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:52 PM

50. Amazing.

Really amazing. How rude. Pitiful.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #50)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:55 PM

51. I agree..

A call-in-the-troops thread is kinda pitiful.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #51)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:55 AM

88. I'm glad you admitted it.

R children is a learnin!

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #39)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:27 AM

126. and a second. Ah, the cult of personality.

 

isn't it amazing.
I am called all sort of names for supporting the FOR HIS WHOLE LIFE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT
including "cult of personality"

disconnect.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)


Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:18 PM

22. I'd feel the same as anyone having it. nt

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:20 PM

24. He doesn't already?

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:22 PM

25. Signed with pleasure. This is the good fight between freedom and the illusion of "security".

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:23 PM

27. This one is a most pertinent paragraph, I have read several posts here stating

something along the lines of "its' already been done."

That argument is irrelevant as past bad behavior doesn't justify even more bad acts now, just because it has already been done to a different extent whether lesser or greater.





When I was a kid, I sure didn't trust Tricky Dick. But as I grew up, I realized that the problem went well beyond The Trickmeister. He was simply exploiting spytech to its fullest. I learned that President Eisenhower had spied on Eleanor Roosevelt, that J. Edgar Hoover had recorded Martin Luther King Jr.'s private conversations, and that Lyndon Johnson had enlisted the FBI's assistance during his 1964 campaign. For almost a century, the federal government has used surveillance to keep tabs on civil rights, environmentalist, and antiwar activism. Spying on us: it's the one thing that Republicans and Democrats seem to agree on. It's bipartisan. It's as American as apple spy.



I didn't trust Nixon either and anyone believing there won't be anymore Nixons are seriously deluding themselves.

Thanks for thread, Alan Grayson and thanks for your service.




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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:27 PM

29. It would have bored him to death! nt

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Response to Andy823 (Reply #29)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:31 PM

33. Obviously you weren't anti war then

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #33)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:22 PM

67. I had been drafted

Got this lovely letter telling me that I had to report for duty. Spent two year of my life in the Army thanks to Nixon, but I was fortunate enough to have been sent to Germany instead of Vietnam, some of the people I went to basic with were not so lucky. I hated the war and the loss of death it caused, and I hated Nixon, but didn't have a clue as to what an email was back in those days. Most of the men I served with felt the same way.

The few emails I send to day are not that interesting, hell they even bore me, and I wrote them. If some body really wanted to bore themselves and read them, I could care less. Oh and I still hate wars and what it does to our young men and women.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:28 PM

31. K & R

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:36 PM

36. What a drama queen.

"Maoist China" "East Germany" comparing the Obama administration to these entities makes you look more ridiculous than usual.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:38 PM

38. Thank you! n/t

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:40 PM

41. Definitely need to be protections.

On the other side of the argument, would any President or Congressperson step up and take responsibility for failing to prevent a devastating dirty bomb detonation because they voted to somehow "cripple" intelligence gathering that might have prevented it?

I can understand how political leaders would naturally want at their disposal every tool available to help them do their #1 job, protecting the American people, without fail. I don't know where the balance lies.

Thanks for posting, Congressman.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:41 PM

43. My passwords are protected enough that nobody gets them.

First, I use diceware to generate a unique, random phrase of significant length. Then I tweak it using a method I do not reveal to anybody.

It's much more secure than any password.

I used to use PGP for my emails, but most people wouldn't play -- it's too complicated!! (What? To click a decrypt link?) However, I worked at a couple of companies where all correspondence was PGP encrypted. Not even NSA can break those.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:41 PM

44. Non-sequitor.

Please Google invalid equivalence.

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #44)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:28 PM

70. No, you really need to explain your own statement

Asking people to Google for your opinion is just shoddy.

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Response to siligut (Reply #70)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:52 AM

97. And lazy. A lot of "google it" going on these days.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #97)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:00 PM

216. More people should use Google

and educate themselves instead of just posting knee-jerk reactions.

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Response to siligut (Reply #70)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:12 PM

221. *sigh* Ok, I'll explain my post

and I'll try to keep it simple and talk.....real....slow.

First of all, an invalid or false equivalence is NOT an opinion, which you would know if you had followed my advice. It is a logical fallacy, or "logic fail" if you will. It's basically "comparing apples to oranges". For a fuller and better explanation along with examples, Google it. Or Bing it, whatever.

So, I was trying to point out that the comparison he was trying to make was not a good comparison, hopefully so he (or more likely one of his secretaries) wouldn't make the same mistake in the future. Such a logic fail often invalidates the entire argument.

So, I was not trying to make him Google my "opinion" as you accused me of.

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #221)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 09:01 PM

225. That he made a false equivalency is your opinion

Which of his comparisons do you have a problem with?

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #221)

Thu Jun 13, 2013, 08:40 AM

230. Don't bother...your eye-rolling

Condescending attitude is definition enough.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:43 PM

46. Signed and shared.

Thanks for the thread Congressman, and thank you for introducing the bill.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:48 PM

47. I wish you the best of luck, Congressman Grayson

I truly do.

However, you and I both know how this thing got started and why it's going on the way that it is. It's the same process that's going on with Defense appropriations and just about any other corporation that the government contracts with.

Wouldn't it be possible to shrink the growth of this National Security State by reducing the amount of outsourcing that the government does with private contractors? Now, of course, it's necessary to limit what the NSA does, who it can surveil, what information it can gather, what it can do with that information, so forth and so on. But isn't this just half of picture?

How are you going to push back of the compartmentalization of private contract resources that serve as guarantees of support by other members of Congress that have these facilities located in their districts?

Also, we know that the NSA is focusing on the US side because this country serves as the largest hub for global telecommunications. They do this mostly as a stop gap against other countries who may try to do the same thing against the US and the rest of the world. What efforts are you sponsoring to prevent some kind of global telecom cold war from happening if the US creates a vacuum by reducing its own activities?

Is it possible to rescind the authority of as many copycat agencies within the government, that conduct telecom surveilling, without violating the laws that restrict these agencies from conducting ops outside of their realm of responsibility? How many Intelligence Agencies does the government really need?

Yes, we have all been sold a bill of goods, in the form of the so-called "terrorist threat," to justify the expansion of the National Security state... We all know that it's utter bullshit. It's like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly. What's really going on is that these agencies really have no idea what they're doing and why they're doing it, right?

Shouldn't the Congress seek to limit what those responsibilities are and then appropriate at a much reduced rate in order to accommodate that limitation? Something like that will kill the building boom of contractors within the Beltway to a more manageable degree.

The problem really is a matter of over-capacity in the telecom surveillance arena.

I suggest that what must be done first is the repeal of the PATRIOT Act and that the Congress conduct a systematic effort to reduce the size, outsourcing and scope of our telecom surveillance capacity. Yes, I'm very concerned about the invasions of privacy that these agencies are responsible for. However, I know that if they're not curbed and their size limited, it's not going to be very easy to control them.






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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #47)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:06 PM

56. +1

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #47)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:10 PM

220. Great post. Thank you.

Second every line.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:51 PM

49. It's worth remembering

that the "Patriot Act" is actually an updated version of the Nixon administration's "Huston Plan" (see the Senate Watergate Committee report on the Huston Plan). It was this plan that outlined the strategy that led directly to the series of felonies, known collectively as "Watergate." The primary difference between the Patriot Act and the Huston Plan is simply the technological advances that make "spying" so much easier today.

I will gladly sign the petition, and send it along to family, friends, and associates around the country.

Thank you for this.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #49)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:55 PM

52. PS:

I tried (twice) signing the petition. Both times, I got a response that my e-mail address is not a valid e-mail address. It definitely is valid. I will try again later.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:55 PM

52. Signed, Tweeted, Rec'd and Kicked...nt

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:55 PM

55. What if Richard Nixon had stock in these stocks?

http://etfdb.com/type/region/emerging-asia-pacific/china/

To what extent would he have benefitted from his own normalization intiative?

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:09 PM

57. he'd be reading my email

next silly question

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:10 PM

59. Signed and Shared. Nice to hear a Democrat stand up


for Constitutional Rights.

Thank you.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:11 PM

60. Darn...he'd find out just how much stuff I buy on Ebay

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:11 PM

61. Sell Crazy Somewhere Else...We're All Stocked Up Here

Look, just because you made a name for yourself by rightfully slamming the Bush Admin, and championing good liberal policies, that does not mean you are always right, or even make sense.

Just answer a few questions for me if you would, and you'd see how completely crazy your Nixon analogy,,,errr,,,sorry...Your "Let me Equate Obama with Nixon" drivel is.

I know, I know...you throw around outrageous words, and I'm sure it's good for a few campaign donations, or maybe a stint on MSNBC, but there are serious differences between this, and what Nixon was doing.

Did Nixon brief the Congress on what he was doing?

Was Nixon following the law?

Did Nixon go before a FISA Court, or a Federal Judge to obtain a wiretap, or get authorization for the bugging of the Watergate Hotel?

Did Nixon go to a judge and subpoena the Mental Health records of Daniel Elsberg, or did he try to have them stolen?

Did Nixon have his staff do a review of a surveillance program to ensure it met the legal standard set by Congress??

Look, just like the guy says in the movie Jaws; "You yell barracuda, and people go; 'what, huh'" , but..."You yell shark!...and you've got a panic on your hands".

Same shit here. You start throwing the "Nixon" word around, you'd better be able to back it up. If you can't provide answers to my questions above, and then recognize that this is about as far from Nixon as you can get, then I will have to assume that your only purpose in "crying Nixon" is for your own self aggrandizement.

Please stop it.

Oh and guess what...Obama ain't no Nixon, and he sure as hell ain't no Bush...that's kind of why we voted for him.

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #61)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:32 PM

72. Ready, fire, aim

You missed the entire point of the OP, Obama will not be president until the end of time, the OP isn't about Obama it's about what happens after Obama when eventually a Republican becomes President.

You know, like Nixon was president. We've dodged a couple of nasty bullets with McCain and Romney, no one stays lucky forever.


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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #72)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:44 PM

76. And if a Republican becomes President

he would have to follow the law, or he'd be BREAKING THE LAW.

You seem to have very little faith in our Democracy. I on the other hand, feel that the checks and balances we've had in place for over 200 years seems to work pretty good.

Presidents have overreached before, and they've been smacked down for it. I actually believe in the American people, and believe that this particular NSA program strikes the proper balance between freedom and national security. You know, those things are not incongruous. You can actually have both.

What you can't have is people trying to scare folks with the specter of "Nixon".

Because you know, in the grand scheme of things, the whole Nixon affair happened to work out the way it's supposed to work out.

He was forced to resign in shame, and about the only thing that is left of that legacy is the Republicans "Ahabian" pursuit of some Democratic President's equivalent lawlessness...we shouldn't be helping them in the quest for their Great White Whale.

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #76)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:50 PM

77. Smirk and Sneer lied us into war and torture among other things

So far they're sitting fat and happy, not remotely "smacked down". Half the shit in America is named after Ronald "Iran Contra but I can't recall" Reagan.

So much has gone down since Nixon, it's not Dick Nixon's America any more, not remotely.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #77)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:08 PM

80. Yep.

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #76)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:51 PM

78. . . .

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #76)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:32 AM

85. And how would we know if those Republicans were following the law?

Determining whether the people in office are following the law requires the ability to know what they are doing to test it against the law - and the checks and balances you put so much faith in include appellate review, and at the trial level a fair battle between zealous advocates for opposing viewpoints (which puts the best argument for each side in front of the judge, not an unopposed request from one side), both of which are written out of this law.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #72)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:20 PM

81. Obama admin says they have put safeguards into law. Which the Next R will have to follow or they

are breaking the law.

So they believe they have taken care of the "Obama will not be president" angle.

Whether or not the safeguards are "good enough" is another debate.


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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #81)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:43 AM

87. Especially since the actions carried out under the law are secret-

and can't be reviewed by a court of law. So if they aren't, who will know?

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #61)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:54 AM

109. PLONK!

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:13 PM

63. Signed, sealed and delivered....

K&R

... one question though... Can you add, in this "Mind Your Own Business Act" the words "government contractors" as well? Looks like our government doesn't do any more DIRECT snooping, but it's all contracted out to God only knows who/which snooping Corporation.

As a matter of fact, in the near future can you author a bill loosely titled "Get Your Corporation Out of Our Government Act"? Yeah, that one might have to wait until after 2014, as Speaker Boehner would never let it come to the floor. BUT, that doesn't mean you can't start working on it now!

I did everything you asked. Good luck to you, and to all of us!

ReRe

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Response to ReRe (Reply #63)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:21 PM

82. Great suggestion on private contractors.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #63)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:03 PM

193. Yes, a "Get Your Corporation Out of Our Government" Act is exactly what we need, for starters.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #193)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:23 PM

222. You betcha! ;-)

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:29 PM

71. This whole debate has devolved into a hate Obama hate the government hate, hate hate.

Sounds more like a T'Bagger site than DU. I don't see any future here on this site I keep hoping for better but daily I am disappointed.

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Response to 4bucksagallon (Reply #71)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:26 AM

90. You just told a liberal a Congressman that he's acting like a Teabagger.

Do you not find it incongruous that Congressman Grayson is to the left of you, but you're tarring him with a 'bagger brush anyway? I despair for the future of my party.

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Response to 4bucksagallon (Reply #71)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:11 AM

102. Disgusting comment. Rep. Alan Grayson is a Democrat and a Liberal. There is not even a

remote similarity between him and any right wing tea-bagger. DU is a Democratic site and this is the first time in my recollection that a Democratic Congressman whose Dem creds are impeccable has ever been attacked here.

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Response to 4bucksagallon (Reply #71)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:25 PM

178. No one here hates Obama. Some here want laws that are contrary to the Constitution

ended. Laws like Bush's Patriot Act and domestic spying. Laws that Bush and the Republicans love. Now we have the authoritarian wing of the Democratic Party loving these same laws.

Some here swear that they know the President isnt doing anything wrong, yet there are conflicting reports as to what is actually being done. And new evidence is being revealed every day. But again some are sure it's legal. What ever he is doing has to be legal.

Repeal George Bush's Patriot Act and end illegal domestic spying.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:28 PM

83. He'd find out about great offers on Viagra!

I don't advocate for government searching it. Nonetheless, anyone who thinks email is secure knows an insufficient amount about email. There is no more expectation of privacy that Mitch McConnell has when he has a loud meeting about Asley Judd and how to make her a victim of the politics of personal destruction.

G1F

PS: I vote with those above who believe you need a new writer. The appeal to outrage is a poor and distasteful approach. Try to appeal to intelligence and reason next time. Most of us aren't easily gamed.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:33 AM

86. The porn in my Email woulda killed Ol' Tricky Dick

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:03 AM

89. Hank would agree with you...

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:35 AM

92. Thank you Representative Grayson for standing up for our people and our values

We are in a hard place and have been in it for a while now. I hope you have friends and associates of like mind, resources, and/or influence to help move things along on the inside. When folks are chasing dollars, it is hard to keep of a collar.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:39 AM

93. Bravo, bravo, bravo. Nixon was kicked out for far less than what is occurring today!

 

Thank you for being present for the people, for knowing about the NDAA, and for taking a stand to do something!

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:54 AM

98. There ought to be a nice cross-section of people in Congress who might want to talk together

about the issues involved here. I'd suggest you try to get together with a bunch of them and try to study some of the following issues:

(1) Eliminating the current ability to search older-than-180-days emails without a warrant;
(2) Eliminating national security letters;
(2) Restricting dragnet telephone records collection;
(3) Restricting the FISA courts, in terms of the warrants they can issue, and tightening the time frame for review;
(4) Discussing with major civil liberties groups the many issues still raised by the Patriot Act

Courageous congressional action is really needed, but crafting a new consensus on The Hill may take time -- and a lot of egos are involved

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #98)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:11 AM

101. +++++

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:02 AM

100. Petition signed.

Rep. Grayson, I'm a Texan, but I'm going to start donating to your campaigns from now on. At least that way I know that I'm supporting a true liberal.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:31 AM

103. If ever anyone needed evidence of the power of a cult of personality, just direct

 

then to this thread. No matter how wrong President Obama is, he can count on this cadre (as long as it involves no action of sacrifice for them personally, of course).
& R

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:31 AM

104. knr

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:38 AM

105. Thanks congressman. Please keep pushing and please work to cut private contractors out.

Private contractors having access and government authorized control over a huge pool of integrated personal data is the scariest part of all.

Turning personal data into a separate product and reselling for profit will and probably has happened. To simply sit on that information would be bad business.



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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:38 AM

106. Signed and forwarded, thank you Rep. Grayson.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:50 AM

107. Thank you Congressman

for taking time to come here. It is refreshing and hopeful to see someone proclaim "the king has no clothes". We need a leader who can bring the disenfranchised voters...millions of us together by fighting for us..empower us to help get our country back..for our privacy, for our jobs, for the good of the 99%..this is a great start to earning the confidence of voters everywhere..

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:53 AM

108. What's with the haters? n/t

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #108)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:25 AM

117. mindboggling, aint it...

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:57 AM

110. Microsoft, Google, Apple – they're all in on it.

They are not all in on it. Get up to speed. This is very disappointing coming from someone who should know better.

Greenwald initially said that but he was wrong wrong wrong. NSA do not have 'direct access' like he wants you to believe (that they can just hook up to Google, etc., any time they like - which is what fear mongering Glenn wanted his audience to think).

They can have access yes but they have to ask first in the proper legal way. All the corps denied any such thing but of course once the truth is told the lie has already made it's way half way across the world.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #110)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:39 AM

137. You are arguing semantics..

Microsoft, Google and Apple have long allowed law enforcement overreaching and has added features to their products solely for the purpose of spying on their users. There is no reason Microsoft and Apple products need to store my browser history since the day I opened my computer..this is a feature added to a product which I purchased from them, the sole function is to record my activity for any future law enforcement investigation..seems counter to great customer service, eh?

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:58 AM

111. Dear Mr. Grayson, You being a lawyer must know ...


... that information a person has "knowingly exposed" to a third party is NOT protected by the 4th amendment.


-snip-
Thus, some Supreme Court cases have held that you have no reasonable expectation of privacy in information you have "knowingly exposed" to a third party — for example, bank records or records of telephone numbers you have dialed — even if you intended for that third party to keep the information secret. In other words, by engaging in transactions with your bank or communicating phone numbers to your phone company for the purpose of connecting a call, you’ve "assumed the risk" that they will share that information with the government.
-snip-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101665881


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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:58 AM

112. Kick and Rec

and thank you !

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:06 AM

113. K&R

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:10 AM

114. Mr. Grayson

Thank you Congressman Grayson.

Petition signed and sent.

Keep up the good work !!!!!

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:12 AM

115. k&r

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:22 AM

116. Talking point: PRISM is Google for spooks.

People are still confused about what the NSA's capabilities are, so they need it delivered short and sweet.

What the NSA's got in PRISM and related programs is a giant search engine, like Google, powered by billions of dollars of computers in their data centers, with tentacles in every major telecommunications center, using law-enforcement back doors.

Go onto Google, you can type a few words, and get information on just about anything. And that's the toy we get to play with in civilian-land.

The NSA's Google, aka PRISM works much the same way. Type in a few keywords, and you can violate the privacy of any person in the world at will.

Google for spooks.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:30 AM

118. Mr. Grayson, please call Senator Franken up and take him to lunch...


... ya'll should get together so that ya'll can hash over the details.

Senator Franken has been in The Senate now since 2009, and you've only been back to The House since Jan 2013.

Perhaps you've missed some important stuff - he can fill you in.

Al Franken Defends NSA Surveillance: It’s Not Spying, They’re Protecting Us
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/al-franken-defends-nsa-surveillance-this-is-not?ref=fpb


p.s. I still love ya and support you, but I disagree with you on this issue

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:43 AM

120. Rec #101 here; not even bothering with the detractor comments. Thank you, Rep. Grayson. nt

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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #120)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:49 AM

121. +1

Rec'd!

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 04:04 AM

122. Signed!

and thank you for all of your hard work sir!

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:05 AM

124. Agreed! This is not Cuba!

This is not Venezuela!

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:23 AM

125. thank you Congressman for being one of the courageous few who stands up for the Constitution and

freedom.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:28 AM

127. K&R Thank you, Sir!

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:00 AM

128. Done! And thank you, Congressman!

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:21 AM

129. k&r for the 4th Amendment.

Thank you, Congressman Grayson!

For all you do.

-Laelth

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:36 AM

130. Instead of act, I'd like to see the Patriot Act repealed and the FISA law as well.

Then I'd like to see some serious work directed toward sorting out that snake pit of the intelligence community alphabet soup agencies and the military who have an unholy alliance now. Standing in one place and screaming "Leave me alone resolves nothing" and leaves the systemic sources of overreach in place.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:42 AM

131. I signed the petition.

I assume some of the posters on this thread weren't around during the Nixon years.

Let's put a stop to this crazy program of spying on everyone - much less wasting more money on crazy contractors. Heck, I'd sign a petition to get rid of the NSA if there was one. Shut 'em down and build schools instead.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 07:10 AM

132. This is not correct "You're innocent until you're proven guilty..." (from the OP)

 

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 07:12 AM

133. Thank you VERY much for posting this Congressman!



President Obama won't be in power forever - whomever gets to exercise these powers then MIGHT be a Republican.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:21 AM

135. Well

he would maybe have known my brother was on the way to Canada....and he would have certainly known what a lying crook I thought he was. Without having this technology, when the FBI called looking for my brother (yes, a family member reported him) they knew my and my sister's names. They also lied to my mother and said that if he came home then he could go into the army and not serve time in prison.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:35 AM

136. k&r

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 09:10 AM

138. Thank you Rep Grayson!

It seems there is a better less intrusive way to protect both our rights And us.

If we give up all freedoms to protect our freedoms? Where and what the hell does that leave us?
You have my support.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 09:51 AM

140. Nixon was a Saint...

...compared to what his old handler's progeny are doing today.



Baron de Rothschild and Prescott Bush, share a moment and some information, back in the day.
Note the typed description on the back of the photo, common practice in official photographs,
and the rumpled aspect along one edge, suggesting it passed through a wirephoto machine.



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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 10:00 AM

141. Finally, a call for some degree of social justice!

 

Of course it's you, congressman, making that call.

There may be another approach though. This social networking information that is being collected could be used to fight actual crime. That might be a noble thing to do. One thing for sure, it would force a pretty rapid shutdown of the whole program since it seems to be the criminals (specifically, the war criminals) that are running the whole show.

Yeah, that's the ticket. Let's use the system to track war criminals. That will put an end to it!

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 10:04 AM

142. Throwing our rights away is cowardly and more destructive than anything a terrorist could ever

dream of doing. Why would Al Qaeda need to do anything? We're already self-destructing into a secret police state.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 10:19 AM

143. Go, Alan!

Exactly right on every count!

I had no doubt you would be able to put this issue in the proper context for the uninformed/willfully ignorant.

SO proud of you this morning!

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 10:27 AM

144. Signed

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 10:29 AM

145. Bad policy whoever sits in the White House.

I could do without the Franklin quote -- something we see everywhere these days. I know the context under which he said it, and I bet ol' Ben would be amused at how it is being applied today.

So it appears your bill will re-state the 4th Amendment and extend it to include surveillance, which is probably a good idea. I think this is one case where the Founders lacked the foresight to imagine the strides technology would take in the future. They wanted the mails to be secure -- and the mails still are secure -- so I imagine they would be pretty outraged at the acts currently taken by law enforcement and security agencies to evade the Constitution.

But why stop at surveillance? What about no-knock warrants? What about the many government agencies who are exempt from the 4th Amendment altogether? Much of the substance of the Bill of Rights was intended to limit the efficiency of law enforcement because the Founders feared it being corrupted for the uses of tyranny. Much of what we have done in my lifetime and yours has been devised to improve the efficiency of law enforcement "to make us safer." Law and Order is always a big vote-getter, nyet?

Oh, and we did abrogate parts of the Constitution during the Civil War. Check your history. Wartime acts to suspend such niceties as habeas corpus are typical in our history. The rap now is that we are in a constant state of war (as Mr Orwell foresaw), and thus wartime exigencies may be applied across-the-board. This is a systemic problem, and we need to attack it at its roots. Our endless "wars" against drugs, terrorists, or whatever, need to be brought to an end. Congress needs to reclaim the duty it cravenly surrendered, and ensure that no war is carried out without a declaration of such by our elected representatives. Not that it would help much, considering the hordes of Congressmen and Senators who jumped at the chance to enact the Patriot Act, and to promote and fund endless conflict and increase the power of the Executive beyond historic bounds. But it would be a step in the right direction.

-- Mal

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 10:29 AM

146. That wouldn't bother me a bit

 

Because Mr. Nixon is deceased.

Ben Franklin said that "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Leaving aside those quirky initial caps, I agree wholeheartedly.

Thank you, Congressman.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 10:31 AM

147. I would have been proud to be on Nixon's Enemy List. Sad to find that we are ALL on the current one.

I don't mean to be hyperbolic, but it certainly feels as though our government has decided our own people are the enemy as much, or nearly as much, as Al Qaida operatives.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #147)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:38 PM

166. More so, if you were ever spotted at a OWS event.

 

The true insurgents are the ones who are trying to change things. They are the only threat to the ones who are behind this spying.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 10:48 AM

148. Should be signed "Courage, Rep. Alan Grayson's staff"

I don't think the Congressman just posted this here and left without bothering to respond to anything, and I am sure if someone searched they'd find this same letter on other progressive sites.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #148)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 11:04 AM

150. Perhaps, but Congressman Grayson HAS posted here (and engaged in rebuttal) before...

On several occasions.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #148)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 11:08 AM

151. Why do you think that??

He took questions from DU'ers one time. There are some serious people that post here.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #153)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 11:46 AM

160. and there is no right or wrong in that.

He is simply promoting his message to as many people as he can and harvesting signatures for his cause. Nothing wrong with that.

What is weird tho is that when he, or his staff, posts the form letter, some people on DU think they are his special little snowflakes and take personal offense when it's shown they aren't so special after all as the same message is posted in many other places.

People are funny.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #148)


Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 10:59 AM

149. The Congressman is right with re: to the inefficiency (and danger) of "TOO MUCH DATA"

I can think of many many areas where this has been demonstrated to be true.

Take medical research... New epidemiologists and researchers tend to think they need to ask EVERY question possible in a study--only to find that this dramatically weakens or negates the abiity (power) to find the answer to the immediate question that they seek. This is a primary statistical principle and I'll save others the details except to say the more you ask, the more chance for meaningless (chance) correlations to emerge solely, masking any ability to make valid assumptions. In other words, the more data you collect and try to analyze the more likely for "false positive findings" to emerge.

That principle in science is crudely known as "garbage in, garbage out"....

Even with unlimited resources (which I'd bet even the most powerful nation in the world can not assure), there is simply no way to glean timely valid information on such unfocused data mining. And the lack of trust by the people in our government that has resulted--not to mention our angry allies, makes (IMHO) this the policy of fools.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 11:26 AM

152. Well done and said sir. As you can see, it's a tribal thing for many

here too, as well as demonstrated by the polls. Who's doing it appears to be more important to many than what's being done.

Maybe it should be suggested that it's being done in part due to the alarming DHS report from 2009 regarding the growing rightwing extremist threat in this country, so that a fire can be lit under the right like the now largely debunked IRS scandal did. There may be more truth to this.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 11:36 AM

154. Signed. Thank you, Congressman Grayson. :-)

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 11:40 AM

155. K&R, signed, and thank you.

 

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 11:42 AM

156. motherfuck ALL pigfucking ratfuckers

 

make sure you fly commercial congressman.

please.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 11:43 AM

157. What, is McKenna up in your internals?

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 11:45 AM

159. Well, the sensible woodchucks are here

Good job

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #159)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:07 PM

161. How can you tell? You've got everyone on ignore?...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #161)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:39 PM

206. So that quote is all you got out this post

forks and knives.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:13 PM

163. Thank you for posting this Congressman

And know that I am entirely embarrassed by many of the posts above mine in what used to be my home, DU.

I'm glad to know that someone in Congress still fights the good fight for the base level laws our Government was built on, but that many people seem to think are entirely unnecessary- we can trust Big Brother, right?

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:36 PM

165. K & R

Better late than never we get control of our intelligence agencies.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:45 PM

167. K & R

Sorry about the Reagan Democrats on here.

Thanks for your service

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:09 PM

168. Well said, representative. /nt

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:12 PM

169. Why are you introducing a bill that mirrors the 4th Amendment?

If they don't have to follow the Constitution, they don't have to follow your new bill.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #169)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:35 PM

203. If their not following the Constitution, what do we do about it?

Any thoughts

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Response to WHEN CRABS ROAR (Reply #203)

Thu Jun 13, 2013, 09:18 AM

231. Who enforces the laws??

I understand your point....but just creating more laws for them to break is part of the problem. There is no accountability anymore.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:28 PM

170. K&R

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:58 PM

171. Spot on.

Rep. Alan Grayson.

Spot on.



-p

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:27 PM

172. Don't we already have that?

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:37 PM

173. Well, then, I guess he'd know how I feel about him. In no uncertain terms.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:39 PM

174. No.

Because they way you present it so unrealistically simplified it only serves to encourage the paranoia and fear-mongering of naive libertarians. But it is not the truth. You see, it's a two-tier process. The first, the one everyone is in a mass panic over, collects virtually everything. But do you seriously believe anyone could organize the sheer manpower and infrastructure to go though it all? Give me a break. Furthermore, the second stage, is the retrieval of said data and that is restricted and requires a justifiable cause to do so.

Truth is, all you making are stale, old strawman arguments that do not hold up to any scrutiny.

Oh, and the reason it took so long to get OBL? Because the e-mails didn't tell where he was, but his courier did. And identifying who that courier was key to taking OBL down.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:42 PM

175. I'm calling a Poe on this. I think this is a prank. nt

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:53 PM

176. Mind your own business act....

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:32 PM

180. As you can plainly see by this thread, the Rep Party has no corner on authoritarians.

This is what we are up against. Posters that think it's fun to swarm-bully and high five each other. They rationalize that they are righteously defending their leader. This is what happens when the Rep Party shrinks. They come to the Democratic Party and bring their authoritarianism with them.

Thank you Rep for fighting the good fight. It looks like an uphill battle.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:39 PM

183. WOW.

Judging from the embarrassing whining and childish Acting Out in this thread, it looks like Rep Grayson delivered a whole load of Woodshed Whoop Ass to the more conservative, authoritarians at DU
who are just FINE with the Surveillance/Security State direction we are headed.

Congrats to Rep Grayson!
Its a nasty job, but someone had to do it!

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #183)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:49 PM

188. Recommended. I'm glad he spoke out on this!

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:47 PM

187. Thank you Rep Grayson.

It is an honor and a privilege to sign your petition, it's good to see that there are still a few members of the Democratic Party that are NOT willing to sell out their constituents for a bag of magic beans.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:58 PM

190. Interestingly, the 'like' to fb link is broken and keeps returning an 'error' code.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 04:14 PM

191. Congressman Grayson, I respectfully disagree

You know as well as I do that we have FISA courts whose job it is to oversee that all subpoenas comply with the law. That law already states that without probable cause, conversations between Americans cannot be examined. There is absolutely no evidence that this law has been broken.

And many of your other points are pure hyperbole. 320 million Americans are not being spied on. As of last year there were less than 2000 FISA warrants issued in the U.S., which in a nation of this size is less than 1 in 160,000 people. And that assumes they're distributed evenly, when clearly they're focused on people who associate with foreigners who are violent extremists.

I do agree that America is not North Korea, Maoist China, or East Germany. Such comparisons are overwrought and unwarranted.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #191)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:24 PM

202. Are you OK with locking foreigners up without any charges being filed.

Are you OK with infiltrating and spying on domestic peace and environmental groups that show no signs of doing anything illegal.
Are you saying that if I don't talk to foreigners and sit home and watch TV, I won't be spied on, and oh yeah, the government doesn't lie to us, is that what you are saying.

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Response to WHEN CRABS ROAR (Reply #202)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 09:14 PM

226. I'm not sure what your queries have to do with the Congressman missive

But I'll answer anyway.

"Locking foreigners up without any charges filed". - These are called POWs.

"Infiltrating & spying on domestic peace groups" - Seems an abuse of police discretion. It has nothing to do with these NSA programs though.

"Am I saying that if you don't talk to foreigners and sit home and watch TV, you won't be spied on?" - No. You will be. By Verizon. Who wants to sell you crap you don't need. However your chances of being spied on by Israeli, British, Chinese, and Russian intelligence services (who have the legal right to do so by their laws) is practically nil. And the NSA legally can't, and flat out doesn't want to.

"Oh yeah, the government doesn't lie to us, is that what you are saying." - Basically, yeah. I am not paranoid kook like Limbaugh and Beck who see the "government" headed by a big scary black man as all encompassing evil.

If you are really so intimidated by what the NSA is doing, living in fear like so many in this world actually do (instead of mere liberal-hipster / tea-party whining about "oppression" of other people making fun of your absurdities), then you wouldn't be feeling so free to make such statements.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:04 PM

194. rec

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:19 PM

195. Nixon is the minor leagues compared to this sh!t.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:51 PM

197. Change is constant, history is unfolding now, which side are you on?

We have already lost some of our important rights, are you OK with that?
I'm not.

What are you going to do about it? Make jokes about forks and knives, that's productive.

I've been spied on since the early sixties and I'm fucking tired of it.

Again I ask, what are we going to do about it?

Lets start that discussion, any thoughts?

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:56 PM

198. I would NEVER have believed the responses to this had I not read them.

I remember when this place was overrun with liberals and progressives. Good times.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #198)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:03 PM

199. Where did all the "Reagan Democrats" come from?

This board used to embrace traditional Democratic Party values.
Now, people are cheering on a executive branch with Unitary Perpetual WAR Powers,
and attacks on Social Security?

I am embarrassed by the childish acting out in this thread.
It really is just a handful of repetitive screamers conducting a Mutual Masturbation swarm attack,
but it looks more like FR than DU.

I feel like send an apology to Rep Grayson for our bratty, ill mannered children.
I wouldn't take them into a WalMart.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:15 PM

200. k&r nt

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:18 PM

201. He'd be a magic time traveler...

...just like in that Dr. Who episode!

Serious, spying on civilians=bad. 4th Amendment=good.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:35 PM

204. The subject line and the first line of message block are somewhat at odds with one

 

another:

What If Richard Nixon Had Had Your E-Mail Password?



If he were President right now


If Mr Nixon "had had your E-mail password" he would not have had very many. Email was not very common in the 1970s.

Further, "If he were President right now" is total conjecture. Inasmuch as Mr Nixon has been dead for several years, it is totally impossible to say what he would or would not be doing - with anything.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:38 PM

205. I'm happy to sign the petition . . .

Even though I'm convinced that dismantling the Patriot Act is where we should really start.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:40 PM

207. Representative Grayson: Why do you not respond to the people here when you post something?

We do not bite, thought there can be a bit of snark.

TIA.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:50 PM

208. Thank You - Representative Grayson

eom

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:52 PM

210. I was #11549 to sign. K & R Thank you Rep. Grayson


11548 people have signed our petition -
46% toward our goal of 25000!

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 07:10 PM

213. Thank you Rep Grayson

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 07:36 PM

215. Excellent post and thank you for introducing the MindYourOwnBusinessAct!

I'm 61 and truly disgusted by the overpowering size of current infringements on the whole population.

Thank you for your service.

Please walk across the aisle and slap a couple of Texas congressfolk for me!

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:37 PM

223. Thank you for putting this out there.

Our President didn't start this ball rolling, but by keeping it rolling who knows how the next administration will use this. Or the one after that.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:41 PM

224. Signed.

Thank you.

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 09:18 PM

227. Checkers1? Iamnotacrook?

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Response to Alan Grayson (Original post)

Thu Jun 13, 2013, 05:04 AM

229. signed

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