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Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:11 PM

I took off my Obama stickers yesterday

that's it. I am done thinking that anything between Government and "Hope" can do anything to get shit done and make good decisions for the whole of us.

Here we are into the SECOND term...
Gitmo is a disgrace...(what ever happened to the hunger strikers? don't ask)
troops still in Afghanistan (oh yeah, out by next year, riiiight)
drones still killing children in Pakistan
Wall St still in business
poverty on the rise (but, but JOBS!)
Climate Change unfettered... (howz that Pipeline comin?)

All these things that our POTUS said he would "do" or "fix" or whatever... and instead we are sitting here watching the drama play out over Patriot Act bullshit that was already in place and CONTINUED under this Administration...watching the gameplaying between these men in 'power' as the sequester continues without an end in sight. it's just a game to them, WE don't matter, unless they want campaign donations.

I've decided that at least the Rethugs are openly hostile and out to screw us and they don't hide it.
The Dems spew this hopey-changey preaching and smile and shake our hands...as they quietly slide the knife into our backs.

I am pissed and have no HOPE left for ANY of us
From now on, I'm just gonna work on my life and figuring out how to move past survival
No more believing in politics or people to change shit.
I'll make changes on the ground in my own world, and 'Rome' can burn.

267 replies, 17849 views

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Reply I took off my Obama stickers yesterday (Original post)
FirstLight Jun 2013 OP
mike_c Jun 2013 #1
Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #90
sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #245
Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #260
dgibby Jun 2013 #122
budkin Jun 2013 #166
FirstLight Jun 2013 #171
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #2
Historic NY Jun 2013 #5
Gus Lammas Jun 2013 #132
RKP5637 Jun 2013 #9
madokie Jun 2013 #56
RKP5637 Jun 2013 #91
madokie Jun 2013 #113
WHEN CRABS ROAR Jun 2013 #165
kelliekat44 Jun 2013 #199
AnotherWyoDemocrat Jun 2013 #137
dbackjon Jun 2013 #31
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #52
Andy823 Jun 2013 #115
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #117
SomeGuyInEagan Jun 2013 #191
davidpdx Jun 2013 #235
Autumn Jun 2013 #119
Sheepshank Jun 2013 #133
CincyDem Jun 2013 #60
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #72
CincyDem Jun 2013 #83
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #97
CincyDem Jun 2013 #102
levp Jun 2013 #147
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #150
FirstLight Jun 2013 #174
marions ghost Jun 2013 #88
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #98
marions ghost Jun 2013 #106
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #158
marions ghost Jun 2013 #170
truedelphi Jun 2013 #247
sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #246
DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #96
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #99
DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #116
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #120
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #134
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #144
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #148
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #160
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #172
tblue Jun 2013 #175
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #197
Wednesdays Jun 2013 #210
truedelphi Jun 2013 #244
treestar Jun 2013 #224
DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #226
treestar Jun 2013 #230
DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #232
treestar Jun 2013 #234
DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #236
Marr Jun 2013 #231
treestar Jun 2013 #233
Marr Jun 2013 #240
truedelphi Jun 2013 #243
Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #124
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #126
Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #128
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #130
Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #131
midnight Jun 2013 #135
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #146
kiranon Jun 2013 #140
MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #152
totodeinhere Jun 2013 #173
BlueStreak Jun 2013 #186
Th1onein Jun 2013 #213
bowens43 Jun 2013 #254
Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #3
Logical Jun 2013 #8
Aerows Jun 2013 #20
Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #23
dbackjon Jun 2013 #35
riqster Jun 2013 #45
Drale Jun 2013 #46
Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #78
dbackjon Jun 2013 #143
FirstLight Jun 2013 #177
LWolf Jun 2013 #69
frylock Jun 2013 #161
bike man Jun 2013 #162
totodeinhere Jun 2013 #180
blue neen Jun 2013 #65
SammyWinstonJack Jun 2013 #70
liberal N proud Jun 2013 #4
Javaman Jun 2013 #6
Aerows Jun 2013 #14
Javaman Jun 2013 #39
Aerows Jun 2013 #44
AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #107
truedelphi Jun 2013 #242
FirstLight Jun 2013 #37
LWolf Jun 2013 #53
Melinda Jun 2013 #7
Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #18
Melinda Jun 2013 #24
Whisp Jun 2013 #22
Melinda Jun 2013 #27
Whisp Jun 2013 #62
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #187
lunatica Jun 2013 #10
Aerows Jun 2013 #11
bigwillq Jun 2013 #12
Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #13
snooper2 Jun 2013 #15
Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #21
JaneyVee Jun 2013 #16
Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #17
Whisp Jun 2013 #19
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #38
Whisp Jun 2013 #75
Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #73
CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #25
JW2020 Jun 2013 #92
CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #154
morningfog Jun 2013 #104
CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #155
FirstLight Jun 2013 #183
CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #190
morningfog Jun 2013 #214
babylonsister Jun 2013 #228
warrior1 Jun 2013 #26
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #85
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lpbk2713 Jun 2013 #28
uppityperson Jun 2013 #29
Celldweller Jun 2013 #30
LWolf Jun 2013 #32
FirstLight Jun 2013 #43
emulatorloo Jun 2013 #51
LWolf Jun 2013 #64
JaneyVee Jun 2013 #67
derby378 Jun 2013 #217
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #33
HappyMe Jun 2013 #34
clarice Jun 2013 #36
DCBob Jun 2013 #40
FirstLight Jun 2013 #47
DCBob Jun 2013 #58
nobodyspecial Jun 2013 #76
TheCowsCameHome Jun 2013 #50
riqster Jun 2013 #59
JW2020 Jun 2013 #95
totodeinhere Jun 2013 #184
DCBob Jun 2013 #201
totodeinhere Jun 2013 #212
DCBob Jun 2013 #216
totodeinhere Jun 2013 #241
DCBob Jun 2013 #257
totodeinhere Jun 2013 #265
lamp_shade Jun 2013 #41
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #48
demosincebirth Jun 2013 #42
Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #101
demosincebirth Jun 2013 #225
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #49
FirstLight Jun 2013 #54
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #61
nobodyspecial Jun 2013 #79
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #80
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #84
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #86
sibelian Jun 2013 #252
demosincebirth Jun 2013 #227
emulatorloo Jun 2013 #66
Gregorian Jun 2013 #55
TheCowsCameHome Jun 2013 #57
emulatorloo Jun 2013 #71
Floyd_Gondolli Jun 2013 #63
HangOnKids Jun 2013 #121
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #127
Quantess Jun 2013 #68
bike man Jun 2013 #74
Savannahmann Jun 2013 #77
savalez Jun 2013 #81
Kolesar Jun 2013 #82
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #87
Kolesar Jun 2013 #94
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #100
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #103
Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #89
Floyd_Gondolli Jun 2013 #179
Kolesar Jun 2013 #200
Floyd_Gondolli Jun 2013 #204
SalviaBlue Jun 2013 #93
maxrandb Jun 2013 #108
arely staircase Jun 2013 #109
Progressive dog Jun 2013 #110
AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #111
cynatnite Jun 2013 #112
bluestate10 Jun 2013 #238
Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #114
life long demo Jun 2013 #118
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #123
Red Knight Jun 2013 #125
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #129
Dragonfli Jun 2013 #178
FirstLight Jun 2013 #261
cantbeserious Jun 2013 #136
Autumn Jun 2013 #138
zentrum Jun 2013 #139
kiranon Jun 2013 #142
bluestate10 Jun 2013 #239
ucrdem Jun 2013 #141
still_one Jun 2013 #145
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #149
still_one Jun 2013 #205
MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #151
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #153
Billy Pilgrim Jun 2013 #156
Cha Jun 2013 #221
limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #157
G_j Jun 2013 #159
budkin Jun 2013 #163
Billy Pilgrim Jun 2013 #164
JoeyT Jun 2013 #167
olddots Jun 2013 #168
great white snark Jun 2013 #169
Zen Democrat Jun 2013 #176
redstatebluegirl Jun 2013 #181
totodeinhere Jun 2013 #188
rtracey Jun 2013 #182
darkangel218 Jun 2013 #185
Quantess Jun 2013 #196
rtracey Jun 2013 #203
Quantess Jun 2013 #248
tularetom Jun 2013 #189
Arkana Jun 2013 #192
FirstLight Jun 2013 #193
FirstLight Jun 2013 #262
Peregrine Took Jun 2013 #194
Just Saying Jun 2013 #195
BanTheGOP Jun 2013 #198
FirstLight Jun 2013 #202
still_one Jun 2013 #207
derby378 Jun 2013 #219
LuvLoogie Jun 2013 #206
still_one Jun 2013 #208
Number23 Jun 2013 #222
QC Jun 2013 #209
Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #211
FirstLight Jun 2013 #220
Daemonaquila Jun 2013 #215
cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #218
treestar Jun 2013 #223
tritsofme Jun 2013 #229
bluestate10 Jun 2013 #237
mfcorey1 Jun 2013 #249
boilerbabe Jun 2013 #250
aquart Jun 2013 #251
bowens43 Jun 2013 #255
aquart Jun 2013 #256
DCBob Jun 2013 #258
bowens43 Jun 2013 #253
FirstLight Jun 2013 #266
JimGinPA Jun 2013 #259
11 Bravo Jun 2013 #263
Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #267
FirstLight Jun 2013 #264

Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:14 PM

1. I call it "outrage fatigue...."

The feeling that, if you pay attention, the only thing you get is more stress and anger.

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Response to mike_c (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:54 PM

90. Yeah, we forget that most of this stuff is all bullshit. So, we go ahead and believe it.

We are such dupes.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #90)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:02 AM

245. Yeah, we should just shut up and watch reality tv and not worry what that clicking on our telephone

is. They're just trying to protect us or something. Or maybe we are all suspects. Or maybe it's just some kind of data mining for business purposes, 'collecting' times and dates to see what is the best time for telemarketers to call, or whatever.

Btw, what is bullshit, that we are being spied on, or that we found out about it??

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #245)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:59 AM

260. Did you damage the finish of your car peeling off your stickers?

Have any trouble changing your party affiliation? Can you do that online?

Sorry, but I am not swallowing the hook. DU soils itself over every controversy, and it's a bit unbecoming.

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Response to mike_c (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:33 PM

122. I have friends and family members who are, quite literally, too depressed to discuss

anything remotely related to politics in this country. It's Shock Doctrine on steroids, and it's having the desired effect on a lot of people. They just shut down -like a turtle withdrawing into it's shell.

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Response to dgibby (Reply #122)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:40 PM

166. That's how I feel right now... haven't been paying attention

Total 180 from my usual self.

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Response to dgibby (Reply #122)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:58 PM

171. +1000

I just figured it out today...that politics in washington have as much effect on me as my city council... It's the corporate agenda that is running rampant over us all, and my poverty is the only fact of life I have to worry about.
it sucks, don't it?

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:14 PM

2. That's what the GOP hopes you and others will do.

Join them in hating the government. So they can kill it completely.

Good plan.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:16 PM

5. +1

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:42 PM

132. x2

 

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:18 PM

9. Yep, it is definitely a tactic the GOP employs and quite skillfully. n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:31 PM

56. How can people not see this?

Its not like the President is a dictator. In fact when it comes right down to it his powers are very limited. Especially this President. The first thing the opposition party did was to announce that they would not work with this president under any circumstances and by doggies they've done just that. They kneecapped him right from the start of the game. How is that legal? How is it that the republicon voters allow that to happen. Only one thing comes to mind to me and that is we have a bunch of Racist mo'fo's amongst us

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Response to madokie (Reply #56)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:55 PM

91. Sadly, I think your last sentence sums it all up, they hate the black man

in office. ... does not matter what he does, they want the black man out of office and in his place.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #91)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:18 PM

113. Blinded by hate

I was so naive for years in thinking we as a country was past that.
It appears we have a lot of the same right here amongst us evidenced by the fact some can't wait to pile on him for any bullshit story the haters throw out there. I'm beginning to be embarrassed by the association.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #91)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:39 PM

165. And a Dem in that order.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #91)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:47 PM

199. DOUBLE BINGO!!!

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:54 PM

137. Scott Walker celebrating

We are suckers for his "divide and conquer" strategy!!!

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:24 PM

31. So Republicans are forcing Obama and the Dems to NOT do these things?

Keep drinking the kool-aid

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Response to dbackjon (Reply #31)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:30 PM

52. Not what I said.

Read the OP.

He brings GITMO into this discussion. GITMO is not closed because getting is closed is BLOCKED in large part by the GOP. And as a result "the government" has failed.

The GOP is always working to make the government "not work". Its what they do.

They would LOVE everyone to stay home, except for the right wing crazies.

Here we have the three branches of government working as the founders actually designed it. Two branches of government overseeing the actions of the 3rd. And the more outrage this generates, the better for the GOP.

Do you know how many FISA requests there were last year? About 1700. All of this data, police state!!!! AHHHH ... and there were 1700 requests into this data. Thats a TINY number.

Look, let the OP stay home and give up. You try it too. encourage it more brodly.

It will be 2010 all over again. And we can all get to enjoy the Tea Party's version of Sharia law.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #52)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:25 PM

115. Yep

"It will be 2010 all over again. And we can all get to enjoy the Tea Party's version of Sharia law."


Seems like after 2010 most people would be able to see that staying home will cost us dearly! All one has to do is look at Wisconsin, Florida, Maine, etc. to see just how much damage has been done by putting republicans in charge of state governments, and look at the House to see just how much damage the tea party crowd has done, and keep fight on doing. Even Boehner knows they are a problem, but he doesn't have the guts to stand up to them for fear he will have a primary tea party challenger next time he runs.

The old "I am staying home" BS worked pretty well for republicans in 2010, now they are going to send in their trolls to see if they can get it to work once again. Only thing different this year is I think a lot of the trolls the come in to stir things up on boards all over the internet, are working to put Rand Paul on the tick in 2016, be it for president or VP, they want him in the WH, and that should scare the crap out of anyone with half a brain!



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Response to Andy823 (Reply #115)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:28 PM

117. Agree!

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Response to Andy823 (Reply #115)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:24 PM

191. Wisconsin is in a free fall, sadly.

Next door, the only thing that saved us in Minnesota from a similar fate was one person, Gov. Mark Dayton.

The Rs made huge gains in the '10 mid-terms, taking both the state house and state senate for the first time in years. Dayton won the governorship after a state law mandated a recount. I cannot support his position on the Viking stadium (in my sig, need to say this before someone mentions how I can support him while skewering his position on that), but he was the last man standing between us and becoming West Wisconsin.

I feel for my friends in the Badger state. It will take decades for them to recover, if they can.

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Response to SomeGuyInEagan (Reply #191)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:28 PM

235. I think there are several states that are having similar problems

I had not heard about the new Viking stadium. Can you provide a few links to get me up to date?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #52)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:29 PM

119. And won't the tea party have fun with the NSA? Good thing for them

it's legal and acceptable because by gosh it keeps us safe. I think the next republican president will really go to town with it.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #52)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:43 PM

133. Obvious...right?

so I can only assume that there are planty that chose NOT to see the obvious, because they is likley another agenda afoot. Demoralizing posts, and attempting mass defeatism, just has no place in politics.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:32 PM

60. I don't hate the government but...



...I'm glad I don't have to worry about swallowing hard a voting for O again.

In 2008 - I voted FOR him proudly.
In 2012 - I voted FOR him.
in 1016 - I would be voting against his opponent.

I feel like I've had 6 years of being proud of having him in office, versus just saying he's better than Gramps or Robme. That said, I think I'm back to voting against repubs for a while.

And without a doubt, in 2014 I will be voting dem. And as many years past, I will be walking the neighborhood for dems. But damn, this is getting old.

And to all those who say "boo-hoo, you're giving up hope". Yeah. Maybe. But I'm tired of O testing us at every freaking turn.

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Response to CincyDem (Reply #60)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:36 PM

72. What did he do wrong here?

The program under Bush had no oversight.

It is now overseen by the FISA court and Congress. That's actually how the founders designed the government to work.

Think about this. In the last year, there were about 1700 requests of the FISA court to look into the data. That's it. About 1700.

I'd have expected it to be much, much higher.

And yet we have OPs pushing the "I quit" button.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #72)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:44 PM

83. I'm not sure he did anything technically "wrong" but it's like so many other things...



...what he promised was that his administration would be different. And this is just another arrow in the quiver of sameness. That he runs the program with a secret court that's like a grand jury on steroids. That he promises to close Gitmo and doesn't. He promises full health care then compromises out the public option. I'm tired of 7-dimensional chess. I voted for him so he would win a few. And he hasn't.

I understand all the "congress wont let me" stuff but damn brother, you're supposed t be a leader. Get your ass up there and lead. Give the good people of this country something to be proud of.

Do freaking something that says "NO MORE !".

I hoped he had it in him. But it seems like he doesn't. In this term, when he has nothing to lose, he still doesn't have it in him.

So I'm not an angry defector and I'll be voting dem until the day I die because even with O's failure to deliver, dem will always everyday be a better option.

I'm sad because I wish there were a better "better option".

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Response to CincyDem (Reply #83)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:59 PM

97. Wait ... its not "different" enough.

Do you know what the FISA court is and how and when it was created?

The FISA court was created in legislation proposed by Ted Kennedy and signed into law by Jimmy Carter. They created this secret court SPECIFICALLY for this type of use. But somehow Obama should not be using it.

Obama did promise to close GITMO, he did not promise "full health care".

What does "lead" mean? Please be specific.

He's President, not God.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #97)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:10 PM

102. I know he's not God


And I'm not expecting God.

I'm expecting spine. I'm expecting a heart to heart with someone like Harry where O explains that he's the president and Harry's going to be a public defender working in Reno if he doesn't get in line. And I have to confess that letting Bushie and Dick off the hook on war crimes would be conspiracy after the fact if you or I did it.

My experience with strong dems comes from growing up in Chicago. Maybe not the best example but it was called the city that works for a reason.

I want a president that makes things happen rather than one who puts "the right people in a room" and hopes that the right thing comes out at the end of the day.

Why is it that the Rethugs get all the guys who say "we're going to do this" and every f'ing R within the sound of his voice says "yes boss".

You're right: he isn't God, he's the fucking President of the United States and of the two - he's the only one that provable exists !



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Response to CincyDem (Reply #102)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:09 PM

147. Exactly: spine.

In other words, be more like FDR.

" target="_blank">

"They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred."

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Response to CincyDem (Reply #102)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:18 PM

150. + 1 Mil

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Response to CincyDem (Reply #83)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:00 PM

174. you nailed it in your first sentence

another arrow in the quiver of sameness...

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #72)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:51 PM

88. Overseen by the FISA Court & congress...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022990618

"Congress?! That's supposed to make anyone feel better? The Capitol dome is half-packed with outright Christian fascists, and most of the rest of them I wouldn't follow into the water...but they've got the country's back on domestic surveillance? Spare me. I'd bet my salary that 90% of Congress doesn't even begin to understand the basic details of this situation; half the guys in the House GOP still light their cigars by banging rocks together...and most of them would gleefully authorize full-spectrum surveillance of anyone not Bathed In The Blood Of The Lamb. I am not comforted." (Will Pitt)

The founders DID NOT DESIGN it to work like THIS. Absolutely this secret surveillance is not in the spirit of the founders.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #88)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:00 PM

98. FISA court was created under Carter. You know that right?

And from legislation proposed by Ted Kennedy. Fascists both I guess.

And while we might not be thrilled with the current make up of Congress, the structure is EXACTLY what the founders created.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #98)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:13 PM

106. If there was nothing wrong with FISA courts why

would these senators be saying this now:

A bipartisan group of eight senators introduced new legislation Tuesday that would require the Attorney General to reveal how the administration interprets the laws governing the massive surveillance programs conducted by the NSA. It would require the declassification of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court's opinions, a press release from Sen. Jeff Merkley states, "allowing Americans to know how broad of a legal authority the government is claiming to spy on Americans under the PATRIOT Act and Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act."

“Americans deserve to know how much information about their private communications the government believes it’s allowed to take under the law,” Merkley said. “There is plenty of room to have this debate without compromising our surveillance sources or methods or tipping our hand to our enemies. We can’t have a serious debate about how much surveillance of Americans’ communications should be permitted without ending secret law.”

He's joined by Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR), who along with Sen. Mark Udall (C-CO), has been trying for two years to have these secret interpretations aired. Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT), Patrick Leahy (D-VT), Dean Heller (R-NV), Mark Begich (D-AK), Al Franken (D-MN) and Jon Tester (D-MT) have signed on.

This effort might actually help in the long stymied efforts to get these decisions declassified. The Electronic Frontiers Foundation has been involved in a byzantine effort under the Freedom of Information Act to see one particular opinion and has been ping-ponged between a district court, the FISC and the Justice Department, as all three play hot potato with the request. The ACLU has also just sued the government to compel the declassification of its interpretation of section 215, the so-called "business records" provision of the Patriot Act. A key, though perhaps reluctant ally for this effort is the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/11/1215364/-Bipartisan-group-of-senators-introduce-bill-to-declassify-FISA-court-opinions#

----------------------------
Senator Al Franken (D-MN) issued the following statement in response to reports of the National Security Agency’s collection of phone data:

“There’s a balance to strike between protecting Americans’ privacy and protecting our country’s national security. I don’t think we’ve struck that balance. I’m concerned about the lack of transparency of these programs. The American public can’t be kept in the dark about the basic architecture of the programs designed to protect them.

“We need to revisit how we address that balance. I agree with Senator Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) that the relevant significant FISA Court opinions should be made public to the degree possible, consistent with protecting national security.”

Franken isn’t playing the head in the sand game that Speaker Boehner tried Thursday morning, and he’s not going to feign innocence and outrage like Senator Rand Paul. Nor is he going to sit back and play corporate Democrat. This is how you push for liberal transparency without sounding like you don’t care about national security.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/08/1214534/-MN-Sen-Al-Franken-D-FISA-Court-opinions-should-be-made-public#

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #106)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:33 PM

158. Let's take a look at two quotes from what you posted ...

From the first half ...

“Americans deserve to know how much information about their private communications the government believes it’s allowed to take under the law,” Merkley said. “There is plenty of room to have this debate without compromising our surveillance sources or methods or tipping our hand to our enemies. We can’t have a serious debate about how much surveillance of Americans’ communications should be permitted without ending secret law.”


And from the second part ...

“We need to revisit how we address that balance. I agree with Senator Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) that the relevant significant FISA Court opinions should be made public to the degree possible, consistent with protecting national security.”


You will notice that I used bold for a phrase in each of these quotes.

Notice that neither is asking that the secret court stop being secret. The secret court will remain secret. There are those here claiming that the very existence of a secret court is wrong. Those you quote are not taking that view. They want to know more about what it does, but not end it.

A debate about how much of teh court's preceding are secret is fine. That's reasonable.

But those acting like the existence of this court, and its use, needs to be ended, are not supported by these quotes.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #158)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:54 PM

170. Mamma Mia

OK read the first paragraph again. It CLEARLY says we can't have a serious debate without ending secret law. He is saying --we need to END it.

"We can’t have a serious debate about how much surveillance of Americans’ communications should be permitted without ending secret law.”

---------------------------
The second one from Franken is more qualified as he uses the words "protecting national security" which is a key phrase in the debate in Congress. But he's on the side of investigation and review.

-------------------------

---Whether the court needs to cease to exist can only be determined by opening up this can of worms.
FISA has become an instrument of abuse, and making the process more transparent is one way of dealing with it. I don't think it will solve the problem alone. I think we need more.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #158)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:09 AM

247. May I point out that the first paragraph you

Highlight is ambiguous. And what I take from it is different than your reading of the paragraph's meaning.

When I read this: "We can’t have a serious debate about how much surveillance of Americans’ communications should be permitted without ending secret law " - what I take from that is that we need to end secret law.

In fact that was the entire point of Snowden coming forward. As long as no one could pursue the matter of surveillance in court, as the whole secrecy of the surveillance meant that an individual who thought they were a target of the surveillance couldn't prove it, and so that individual had no standing, and the court would throw the entire case out, saying "there is no standing for you to pursue this.. But once Snowden came forward, many of us as individuals now could challenge this in court.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #98)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:07 AM

246. I think I already explained this to you but I'll try again. THEY CHANGED THE FISA BILL

so no, it's not the one 'created under Carter'. It's the one altered to save Bush and the telecoms from prosecution for BREAKING THE ONE CREATED UNDER CARTER! Do you get it now?? They retroactively changed the 'created under Carter bill' to make LEGAL what Bush did when he broke that law.

Do I have to use bigger letters?? Democrats were outraged when they did it, that they so obviously went out of their way to save Bush from being a lawbreaker and to prevent people from suing the telecoms.

And instead of doing as he promised, correcting the abuses of the Bush years, Obama continued to use a bill that LEGALIZED BUSH's law breaking!!

Were you around during the Bush years at all?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #72)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:58 PM

96. He didn't stop the program. He could have done this with a pen. He still can.

Yes, congressional action would be required in order to stop the next President from doing the same, but Obama can stop this in his administration right now.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #96)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:01 PM

99. Stop doing what exactly?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #99)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:28 PM

116. Spying on millions of Americans.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #116)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:29 PM

120. Be more specific. Spying could mean many things.

Or are you using an extremely broad term to avoid discussion the details?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #120)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:49 PM

134. Have you watched the news at all?

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #134)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:05 PM

144. Yes ... and the media is all over the map.

Every 3rd talking head misuses the phrase "wire tapping" as a simple example.

"Spying" suggests that the government is actively following me, has placed cameras and listening devices in my home, and they turn them on and off whenever they want.

Is that what's happening?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #144)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:13 PM

148. Pretty much.

Except they haven't placed anything in your home, theyre just using the technology you already posses to gather the data.

Technically, same thing.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #148)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:35 PM

160. Um, no. Not even close to the same thing.

There is no one monitoring my calls or turning on my web cameras so they can watch me have breakfast.

You sound like the guy who thinks the government put a receiver in his fillings.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #160)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:59 PM

172. "There is no one monitoring my calls"



Thanks for the laugh!

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #160)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:01 PM

175. How do you know?

And what makes you think it won't happen? The groundwork is being laid if it's not there already. Why would anybody trust the PTB to not overreach?

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Response to tblue (Reply #175)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:43 PM

197. Prove to me there are no Unicorns.

First, we already know that the government CAN listen to your calls. They have ALWAYS had that ability. So there is nothing really new on that point.

Now, at one time, the FBI was actually listening in without warrants. Which is why the FISA courts were created (Ted Kennedy introduced the legislation, and Carter signed it).

So, again today's question is not whether the government has the ability to listen in. They always have. And, laws have been passed in an attempt to prevent the government from listening in when they should not.

Now ... one can certainly decide that the current government is listening to all calls. I remember back in the 70s a guy in my neighborhood has painted a sign on his door which said the government was doing just that to him. That, and that they'd implanted a device in his head to control him.

If you already believe that the government is listening to your calls, there is nothing I can tell you to change that belief. After all, they have always had the ability to do it. And the reason the laws exist is specifically because of overreach. You create the laws to limit overreach.

Now, let's examine a detail about the FISA courts that I find interesting. Did you know last year there were only about 1700 requests to the FISA courts to allow investigators access to the data. That's it. ~1700. Doesn't that seem like a pretty small number to you? I mean, wouldn't a police state be diving into that data all the time ... not ~1700 times, but something like 1,700,000 times or even more?

But hey ... that number is probably a lie too. Its all a lie. The government is evil. We're all doomed.

As for the PTB (illuminati?) ... I'd suggest that the problem with that theory is that it assumes some unified group of the PTB all working together. And that's not happening. The people in the 1% would just as soon cut each other's throats. So even if tese PTB exist, they aren't one group, and they really aren't aligned.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #197)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 05:13 PM

210. Why did the elephant paint his toenails red? To hide in cherry trees.

Have you ever seen an elephant in a cherry tree? No? See how good it works!

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #148)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:01 AM

244. And even if it turns out to be

Innocuous, think of the huge expense. The big buildings that got constructed, the massive servers and computers, and all the employees, while our schools were cut back, our fire fighters laid off, health services felt the pinch (California just cut one billion bucks from MediCal!) and bridges fell apart, yet they still had gobs and gobs of money to throw into this expensive venture.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #96)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 07:42 PM

224. How ridiculous

I am sick of hearing how Obama can do shit with a pen.

Or that the answer to bad laws is to not enforce them but leave them on the books. The only way to declare a law unconstitutional is to have someone with standing to challenge it.

We have tried to explain this over and over but some people prefer outrage. and you look ridiculous being outraged about it and demanding that whatever it is can go away with the stroke of a pen.

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Response to treestar (Reply #224)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 07:50 PM

226. Not stopping spying with an executive order is ridiculous?

I don't Really care if you're sick of people who want the President to stop spying on everyone.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #226)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:20 PM

230. The President is not spying on everyone

That is a deranged statement.

The President is following the law that is, if I think a law is unconstitutional, I don't expect it to go away by someone's stroke of a pen; I expect it to be done the lawful way, through the courts.

You're advocating tyranny. A Republican President changing the law his way with the stroke of a pen.

The constitution also includes these processes. Weird you don't like that part of the Constitution.

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Response to treestar (Reply #230)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:22 PM

232. I'm not all that fucking stupid, you know. An executive order stopping tyranny is tyranny?

Of all the really goddamned idiotic things I've read over the last few days about this story, yours comes really close to the top. Bring me some logic when you've learned the trick of it.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #232)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:27 PM

234. You really are all that

These laws were passed and made into law - they are not "tyranny." They can be challenged in the courts. That's not tyranny. Talk about over-dramatics.

In a tyranny, say the USSR, there's no posting on a board that you don't like what they are doing. There's no protest or writing objecting to what the government is doing. There's no chance to make the law by a representative body or have it reviewed by the courts (even where the majority, through their representatives, wanted it).

To call the US a tyranny is just deranged. If it were, you could not even state your opinion that you disagree with the process.

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Response to treestar (Reply #234)


Response to treestar (Reply #224)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:20 PM

231. It could be done with a stroke of his pen. You can stamp your feet

all you like, but it's true.

And if he really wanted to have the thing removed in the legislature, why work so hard to keep it a secret?

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Response to Marr (Reply #231)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:23 PM

233. Check the part of the Constitution that describes the processes

Leaders who can do things at stroke of pen are called dictators.

Check out Marbury v. Madison.

A President declaring he is not using a law is violating the separation of powers. The Executive has the duty to enforce the law, and abide by the law, as it stands. The only way to change the law is a new law passed by Congress, that a President signs, or overturning in the judicial branch.

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Response to treestar (Reply #233)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:58 PM

240. That isn't the law.

He has the prerogative not to run that specific program. He isn't required by law to have this data collected, for Christ sake.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #96)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:54 AM

243. Ssh! Too many here are in denial about that

Fact of Presidential life. And they don't want to realize that he has appointed the people who are hurting us so badly - all the Citibank people, the Tim Geithners, Mike Taylors and the rest of the Monsanto crew. I have asked repeatedly for photos of the mean bad Republicans twisting his arm and making him appoint the One Percent scum bags to positions of power, and after asking for over fifteen months, have not gotten a single photo of any Republicans making him do what he does.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:34 PM

124. Sounds like something the Democratic Party might want to do something about, doesn't it?

 

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #124)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:36 PM

126. What they tend to do is ...

try to pass legislation that, while not perfect, helps improve things as much as they can.

Because its either that, or do nothing.

And again, the GOP would love for the Dems to do nothing.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #126)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:39 PM

128. Right... 2006, 2008.

 

Try to blame the people you beg to vote for you, for your own failures, I'm sure that's going to work well.

Again...

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #128)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:40 PM

130. Blame who for what?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #130)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:42 PM

131. Please try to keep up...

 

Oh, never mind.


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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:53 PM

135. GOP doesn't have to hope that the working people do anything... They already have the

expressed cooperation of a congress that is too busy with insider trading that they sign what ever they are asked to sign... Cut food share- check

provide visas to pay workers lower wages-check


Bail out banks who won't rewrite underwater mortgages-check


put cameras everywhere and listen in on everyone-check



closing public schools in the city and making vouchers an alternative to education at private institutions... Naturally using tax dollars for private ventures... I think this is one of the greatest tricks they have pulled...


Seems these attacks on our Government have been a sorry compromise of inadequacy....on both sides of the isle....



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Response to midnight (Reply #135)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:07 PM

146. So let's stay home and accelerate the process!!!

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:00 PM

140. + 3x

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:20 PM

152. It's the entire point of Scandalmania.

 

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:00 PM

173. This is not about hating the government. The OP's list

of grievances can be addressed by government if we have leadership with some balls. What this is about is Obama's failure to implement his promises and it's not an indictment of government.

And BTW, I am going to stand up for progressive principles that I believe in and I don't care what the GOP thinks about it one way or the other.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:13 PM

186. Obama isn't running again, and he isn't planning to do anything significant

He is already a lame duck. So why would the GOP care one way or another? They are probably much happier to see people blindly supporting the guy.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 06:02 PM

213. One is as bad as the other now, but there is another way........

If the GOP is voted out continually, then what becomes important is the primary for the Democratic offices. That also negates the effect of the electoral college and the winner take all system in the presidential elections.

We need to organize and get out own candidates in those primaries. Support them, too.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:23 AM

254. please tell me the difference between the two parties again.....


No which party is power, they through their base a few bones and continue the process of taking away our freedom in the name of security.

fuck that

I am through voting for the lesser of two evils. Maybe it needs to get really , really bad before the people decide they have had enough of this shit.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:15 PM

3. Do you think Mitt Romney would have made you happy, really.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:18 PM

8. Where the fuck dd the OP say that? Wow, reading hard for you? n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:21 PM

20. The OP didn't say that

but some want to conjure up that the OP said that because they are in deep denial. I hated this bullshit under Bush, and I hate it under Obama, at least I'm consistent.

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Response to Logical (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:21 PM

23. Read this very slowly, if Obama had not been re-elected in 2012 who would be president today?

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:25 PM

35. So it is ok then that Obama is screwing us

Because the other guy would have screwed us more?

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Response to dbackjon (Reply #35)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:28 PM

45. No it's not OK

Neither is sitting out the fight and so enabling the next Reep to screw us.

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Response to dbackjon (Reply #35)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:28 PM

46. Welcome to democracy

that is the way government has worked for a very long time

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Response to dbackjon (Reply #35)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:39 PM

78. In which fashion do you feel so screwed?

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #78)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:04 PM

143. Coddling Wall Street

Not closing Gitmo
In Afganistan
Screwing the Environment
Screwing Public Education.
Appointing Republicans (or Dems in wolf's clothing) to major posts
Dragging his heels on equality
Still not embracing equality

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Response to dbackjon (Reply #143)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:04 PM

177. + a brazillion!

that list is just a peice of it.

I'm tired of defending someone who hasn't lifted a finger to defend ME...even though that's what he said he'd do.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:35 PM

69. Read this slowly:

The. OP. is. not. a. campaign. post.

You illustrate the point.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:36 PM

161. gee, another condescending n00b..

this place is lousy with them anymore.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:36 PM

162. But Obama WAS reelected, and the issues listed in the OP DO exist, hence the

 

disappointment/disenchantment.

It's not that hard. Remove the rose colored glasses, face reality.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:05 PM

180. That's not the point. Obama did happen to be reelected and now those of us who voted

for him have the right to disagree with him on occasion and try to push him in the direction that we believe is best for this country.

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Response to Logical (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:32 PM

65. It's not really necessary to be that nasty.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. If you don't agree, you can just say so without being insulting.

Peace, and have a good day.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:35 PM

70. ...

Not in any particular order....

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:16 PM

4. Playing right into their hands

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:17 PM

6. I'm considering something completely new...

I call it "Political Atheism".

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Response to Javaman (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:19 PM

14. Good description

of where I am now.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:26 PM

39. My tipping point came after reading the book "Methland"

and it was after that that I was confirmed in my belief that politics and politicians are nothing more than theater of the absurd.

politicians are the only actors that don't care about the audience or their fans.

and with citizens united fully in force, they care nothing for votes since they pretty much buy their elections now.

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Response to Javaman (Reply #39)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:28 PM

44. Unfortunately

I'm right there with you.

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Response to Javaman (Reply #39)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:13 PM

107. "politicians are the only actors that don't care about the audience or their fans." Well said!

 

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Response to Javaman (Reply #39)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:50 AM

242. Who was it that said that "Politicians are the folks that

Weren't attractive enough to make it in Hollywood." ?

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Response to Javaman (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:26 PM

37. +1000!

ya, something like that.

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Response to Javaman (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:30 PM

53. +1

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:17 PM

7. ...

I understand. I think many of us are at this stage as well. If we had an empathy hug emoticon, I'd place it here---> X.

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Response to Melinda (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:20 PM

18. This?

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:22 PM

24. Naw, the darn thing's too happy for the kind of hug I'd like to share with the OP.

I'll share it with you, tho. Thanks m'dear.

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Response to Melinda (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:21 PM

22. not many at all, but if it comforts you, you go ahead and take it. n/t

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Response to Whisp (Reply #22)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:23 PM

27. Thanks for the permission.

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Response to Melinda (Reply #27)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:32 PM

62. you are welcome.

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Response to Melinda (Reply #27)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:14 PM

187. Lmao!!

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:19 PM

10. Take a rest for awhile

It's good to back off and do something you CAN control for awhile. I'm actually doing just that.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:19 PM

11. You never loved him

And all of that tripe.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:19 PM

12. That you put them on was your first mistake.

Whether it was Obama or Clinton or Kerry.
The government does not work for us.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:19 PM

13. The "true believers" haven't given up hope

For what, I do not know.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:19 PM

15. Is your paint faded around where the sticker was

so at least you get reminded of it every time you look at the back of your car?

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:21 PM

21. LOL

Is it an oval or a rectangle?

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:19 PM

16. Nothing about historic obstruction from Republicans?

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:20 PM

17. Does, "Give him more time" still work as an excuse? Or, "McCain would be worse"?

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:20 PM

19. omg hahaha!!

:roflmao:

did you stamp your feet while taking that sticker off? did you cry?

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Response to Whisp (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:26 PM

38. Not cool.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #38)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:39 PM

75. not cool is right.

I'm sure if I could muster up the time to search that very heartbroken ex-Obama supporter I would find some interesting things to support the fact Obama has lost a loyal dem.

But I don't care enough - I've had my laugh and I am happy enough with this thread.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:37 PM

73. !!!

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:22 PM

25. Can we count on you to withhold your Dem votes in 2014 too?

The GOP thanks you!

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #25)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:55 PM

92. So, shaming is an acceptable tactic in GOTV?

 

Better rethink that.

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Response to JW2020 (Reply #92)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:24 PM

154. I don't need to rethink anything. If people are too butthurt to vote against the GOP

then they'll live (or die) under their policies. Simple.

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #25)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:11 PM

104. The dems have earned it.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #104)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:28 PM

155. You mean the politicians who have way more money and assets than their constituents?

Good luck with meting out the 'dems' "punishment".

Who's really going to be on the short end of the stick when the GOP takes power? A dem politician losing an election is far different than a voter losing one's livelihood, home and civil rights under bad policies.

The idea of people wanting to "punish" President Obama by sending him a GOP congress was and is laughable - the ultimate in cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #155)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:10 PM

183. I never said shit about 2014

but i think it is silly for me to think that my withholding a vote will make any difference at all in the scheme of things. It's not about who gets into power anymore, they are ALL bought, sold and paid for and we are just the serfs...R or D...it makes no difference anymore, they will all see us screwn to the wall...one is just more blatant about it. Dems are NOT our 'defenders' and not a guarantee of safety from the evils of corporate rule...

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Response to FirstLight (Reply #183)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:19 PM

190. Not big on the big picture, eh?

Well, I am.

And maybe YOU don't see a difference between the parties, but it's pretty glaring to me and a lot of other people.

I have no interest in seeing this unhinged GOP get full control of the goverment, even if some of you can't figure out why that would be any different than the government we have now.

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #155)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 06:21 PM

214. I'm not talking about punishment.

I'm talking about dems failure to control the message and connect. I wish it weren't so.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #104)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:14 PM

228. Earned what?? nt

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:22 PM

26. GOP wins

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Response to warrior1 (Reply #26)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:47 PM

85. So we're supposed to support crooked policies just to support the Dems and POTUS??

what exactly do you mean that now the GOP wins??

Excuse me, we are not a party of liars.

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Response to warrior1 (Reply #26)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:12 PM

105. Because the Dems are so weak and pathetic.

They never control the frame, always are on the defense, embrace repub policies and run on "we're not republicans!" Weak shit.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:23 PM

28. Gave up on waiting for that pony huh?




Good luck on waiting for whatever your alternative might be.


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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:23 PM

29. Did you take off your "I heart congress" ones also? Damn Obama for not being a dictator

right? Yes, there is stuff that I am upset with him about, but no more trying to change stuff or work towards getting better people elected?

pshaw.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:24 PM

30. I never apply bumper stickers

 

It's stupid.

When you blindly pledge allegiance to a politician you're being a dupe. EVERY damn politician plays you like a fucking harp. Throw some red meat to their constituents and go jump in the hot tub with hookers from your lobbyists.

Especially the Senate. They're all phonies. At least in the House you have SOME people that truly represent a "district" in the country. Senators are just pigs at the trough of lobbyists and DC slime merchants.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:24 PM

32. I think this is accurate:

"I've decided that at least the Rethugs are openly hostile and out to screw us and they don't hide it.
The Dems spew this hopey-changey preaching and smile and shake our hands...as they quietly slide the knife into our backs. "

I've thought so for a very long time. Of course, saying so will get you a blizzard of "lesser evil" responses, and "playing into R hands" responses.

That's how they keep us in line. Except that I am generally impervious to talking points that are 1. distractions, or 2. propaganda, once I recognize them for what they are.

I recognized these particular points as both 1 and 2 many years ago.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #32)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:27 PM

43. exactly

I'm just DONE...you know?

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Response to LWolf (Reply #32)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:30 PM

51. "Hopey-Changey," coined by Progressive thinker, Sarah Palin!

Fuck I love quoting that PATRIOT!

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #51)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:32 PM

64. She's pathetic.

But you don't need her phrase to understand the point.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #32)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:34 PM

67. But we need your help getting Obama re-elected!!!!

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:25 PM

33. I took em off a long time ago.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:25 PM

34. Oh the drama!



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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:25 PM

36. I feel your pain...chin up. nt

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:26 PM

40. Check back here when the GOP fully takes over this country.

I think you and some others here have no idea what the Rethugs plan to do when/if they ever get total control again. It will get very very ugly for many of us.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #40)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:29 PM

47. ...it's already ugly for many of us

when you are living on the lower rungs, it stops mattering WHO is in office and just matters how long before they screw you again...

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Response to FirstLight (Reply #47)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:32 PM

58. yes, I know but think of it in orders of magnitude higher.

They are angry and desperate and think America is being destroyed by Democrats and Socialism. They will stop at nothing to attempt to bring their good ole America back.

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Response to FirstLight (Reply #47)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:39 PM

76. Yes, it's ugly

but you haven't even begun to feel the pain. Think it can't get worse. Just wait. And, no, it will not hasten the glorious revolution that will make everything groovy. It will just get worse and worse. Do you realize how years people suffer, and I mean really suffer, before things like uprisings in the Middle East take place. And then even more people die. Own the reality you are creating for yourself, your family and this country.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #40)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:29 PM

50. Yep. Send us a report with your chisel and stone tablet.

That's what life in America will be like.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #40)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:32 PM

59. Partly because of such actions, Ohio is now a one-party Reep state

Fuck anybody who would help cause such a crisis for the entire country.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #40)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:57 PM

95. All you have to do is wait 4 to 8 years and the Dems will be back in control.

 

Besides, they both seem to be batting for the Wall Street team, so what's the difference?

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Response to DCBob (Reply #40)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:11 PM

184. Healthy disagreement at DU is not going to facilitate the GOP taking over.

If I had to guess I'd say that absolutely nothing that is said on this board that is read by several thousand people out of millions of Americans will have any effect whatsoever on Hillary Clinton's handily winning the 2016 election no matter who the GOP puts up short of Jesus Christ himself.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #184)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 04:19 PM

201. Never said it would and Im not just talking about DU..

There are millions across the country going apeshit over this and ready to dump the President and his party. Thats just rediculous and dangerous.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #201)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 05:59 PM

212. You said ...

"Check back here when the GOP fully takes over this country." Now you are saying "never said it would?"

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #212)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 07:03 PM

216. If enough Democrats leave the party over this bogus issue the GOP will take over.

Is that too complicated for you to understand?

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Response to DCBob (Reply #216)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:12 PM

241. No need to insult my intelligence. I understand complicated issues quite well.

I am saying that I disagree with you. That's all. I believe that Hillary Clinton will be virtually unbeatable in 2016. Lets bookmark this thread and then we can see after the 2016 election who was right.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #241)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:49 AM

257. Sorry didnt mean to do that.

Its just very frustrating to hear people ready to bolt the party over this issue.

BTW, I agree that Hillary will likely win as long as the party sticks together and doesnt self implode before then.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #257)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:00 PM

265. Thanks Bob. Actually I agree that people should not bolt the party over this.

And I certainly didn't mean to imply that people should do that.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:26 PM

41. ofercrissake get over yourself.

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Response to lamp_shade (Reply #41)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:29 PM

48. No, you.do that.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:26 PM

42. You fell for the GOP's "throw shit at the wall and hopes some sticks" machine. They

got a hook in your mouth and are reeling you in.

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Response to demosincebirth (Reply #42)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:10 PM

101. It amazes me

how folks who spend a fair amount of time on a political discussion board can be so completely blind to political machinations.




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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #101)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 07:46 PM

225. It also depends how commited one is to their party. No party is perfect as you know, but what

kept me a democrat since I can remember is that I always considered the alternative, and that always brought me back to reality. As retired union member (teamster) I never thought twice. Democrats always fought for my "bread and butter issues."

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:29 PM

49. Ooh, you took your bumperstickers off. Fight the power! w00t!!! nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #49)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:31 PM

54. ya well, it isn't about the stickers

it's more about the bullshit of believing in something and realizing it just doesn't matter in my life anymore... survival matters at this point. no more trying to make the world better, just survival.

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Response to FirstLight (Reply #54)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:32 PM

61. Every politician ever born has disappointed everyone that's supported

them at some point.

This is not about feelings.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #61)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:41 PM

79. How dare you even suggest that!

*MY* emotions are the most important thing and I will not be ignored.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #61)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:42 PM

80. Now youre telling the OP that is not about their feelings??

god!!

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #80)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:45 PM

84. Even more shocking, it's not about your feelings.

Or my feelings.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #84)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:48 PM

86. Oh ok. You and i are just puppets with no say? is that it??

disgusting!

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #84)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:18 AM

252. So is "it" about ANYTHING?


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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #61)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 07:52 PM

227. You said a mouth full. One issue voters like many 2nd ammenders are part of voters who always

vote against their own, best, interests in every election

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Response to FirstLight (Reply #54)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:34 PM

66. Don't give up

That's not what we do.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:31 PM

55. The conductor does not make the band. The members do.

As long as the people of this country are scattered, there will be no music.

This is how I see it. Low attention spans. Lives designed to be busy. Sickness. Lousy schools. 1/4th of what we earn going towards nonproductive military crap. And on and on.

First we traded comfort for ease when we left the farms. Then we took another step when we bought into the automobile. I know that's being utterly specific to a silly degree, but it's partly true. And in a general sense it is how we progressed to our pitiful and dependent state.

They are not us. We are them. I still feel strongly that Obama is who he seemed when we voted him in. Those speeches were not bs. He's just up against a monster with momentum. A Pentagon, among other things.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:31 PM

57. I'm taking my Christmas decorations down as well,

but it's so close to the half-year mark I may just leave them up.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #57)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:36 PM

71. Good thinking!

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:32 PM

63. ...

 

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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #63)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:32 PM

121. Good Looking Kid. Yours?

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #121)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:37 PM

127. lmao!!!!

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:35 PM

68. I would have, too.

If I had ever had any bumper stickers to remove, that is.

I can't support this administration's eager continuation of W's spying policies.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:37 PM

74. There are many who agree with you, and some who refuse to admit there is anything

 

wrong. I am among the former.

Kudos to you for saying it.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:39 PM

77. I've read the replies.

All of those who say we should not lose faith. To some extent, I agree with them, but not with what they say we should have faith in. I long ago began to put limited faith in to men or women in politics. I redoubled my faith in the principles, the good, wise principles that our nation, our party was founded upon. That is why I come out so strongly in favor of those principles. Because without them, we are a boat on a storm tossed sea. Lurching this way, and that. Searching for a safe harbor, and not caring what or where that harbor is. We run from fear to unease and we congratulate ourselves for leaving fear behind. That we are only marginally safer in the harbor is not lost on us, but it is a margin we celebrate.

We must return to our roots. Those principles that made the Democratic Party great. Those principles that helped us fight against Reagan, Nixon, and LBJ and his lies to get us into Viet-Nam. We must fight against the easy profit over the rights of the citizenry. What would those who emptied their pockets before marching into violent authorities think of us now? They dropped everything out of their pockets before marching to demand the right to vote equally with other men and women. If they hadn't they would have been charged with the trumped up claim of carrying a concealed weapon. They were bitten by dogs, sprayed by water hoses, and showed inestimable courage to stand up for what they believed in. Are we worthy of that foundation to our own reborn party?

We have a long history, a proud history of being on the right side of the issues. The side that history eventually judges as worthy. What will the future judge of us at this time? When your children, and grandchildren read of this era and ask you what you did, will you bow your head and say you supported Government spying? Or will you look fearfully around and say you always supported the government. I intend to look the next two generations in the face and say that I supported, and always support civil rights. Because without those rights, applied in every incident, every instance. Without them, we are not worthy to be called leaders of the free world. Without those rights, we are not a beacon of democracy, and of individuality. We are just another in a long line of imperialist forces in history.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:42 PM

81. That means it's working! n/t

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:44 PM

82. When are you going to start reading the newspapers?

Your bullet items betray ignorance.

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #82)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:50 PM

87. Are you refering to yourself perheps?

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #87)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:56 PM

94. I am quite well read

darkangel218: 7 posts hidden in 90 days: -35

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #94)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:08 PM

100. What do my hidden posts have to do with what you said to the OP?

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #82)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:10 PM

103. Its a fact that POTUS has let down a lot of people

Some are not okay with carying his stickers on their vehicles. Who are you to judge and insinuate that they're ignorant??

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:53 PM

89. LOL! Geez. I'm sorry. But this is just too funny.

The drama queens around this place just crack me up.

By the end of December 2008, half of DU had declared that they had given up on Obama, regretted campaigning for him, questioned the wisdom of voting for him. By March 1 2009, the only voices that could be heard at DU were the screams of despise for the man.

We're doing it all over again, only this time we are allowing the knuckledraggers and corporations -- mortal enemies of DU! -- to dictate the terms.

I'll put it to you in a different way: anyone who is in some sort of crisis mode over this shit should not have voted for Obama, but only because they are not rational enough to vote.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #89)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:04 PM

179. Histrionics 'R Us

 

Two months ago it was drones. Next week it will be something else. Very short attention spans.

The only thing consistent is their disdain (and in some cases hatred) for this president because he isn't everything they thought he would be and their wittle feelers are hurt.

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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #179)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 04:18 PM

200. Chained CPI!

Now I've finally had it
I'm never going to fall in love with a Democratic President again !!

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #200)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 04:53 PM

204. Oh yes, how could I forget that

 

It was so two weeks ago!

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:56 PM

93. Mission Accomplished. Signed GOP n/t

PS: Don't forget not to vote. Thank you.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:13 PM

108. Good...Stay Home and enjoy

the country under Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and President Ted Cruz

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:15 PM

109. I'll alert the media

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:16 PM

110. democracy is hard so I'm giving up

Is that what you meant to say?

Did you think President Obama agreed with you on everything?
Did you believe that he was a dictator and would change the government by himself?

I'm glad you have a world to make changes in, some of us are stuck here.


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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:16 PM

111. Well said.

 

But for some, truth and logic are greatly overrated.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:18 PM

112. You must feel morally righteous by removing car stickers. n/t

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #112)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:44 PM

238. Strange, strange. And just think about all of the real problems in the world that need

solutions. I basically ignore people that are so full of self righteous indignation that they don't realize that they have their heads shoved up a moist, dark space.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:23 PM

114. Yep. Shot in the face or stabbed in the back, your choice. n/t

 

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:28 PM

118. I understand the burnout, been there, done that

But everyone remember. November elections. If you need something to remind you, just think about the results from the 2010 election and all those state and local gop idiots who got into power because not enough Democrats came out to vote. Yes, I'm mad, I want a Democratic liberal/progressive President to finally try to fix things. But we also need the same in all governorships, county and local government federal reps and senators. The stakes are too high. Sorry for preaching.

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Response to life long demo (Reply #118)


Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:36 PM

125. TeamThink

That's one of the biggest problems we have. Sure, Obama is better than Romney which means, what--exactly?

If Bush was the guy in there right now, would people on these boards be singing his praises? Would they say, it's okay he propped up the big banks? Would they say, it's okay not to prosecute those criminal bankers because they're too big? Would they care that the wars rage on, that drones kill innocents? Would they care about the government collecting private data?

Would it matter if this was Bush and he were grabbing more and more power for the executive branch?

Because remember, Obama won't be in office forever, and the next guy with that power might be a Republican.

Will you like it then? Will you tell others that they are part of the problem for not--going along?

Or will you be outraged?

No one should be loyal to a symbol or party or man.

They should be true to their convictions and ideals.

Otherwise, it's just selling your soul.

But be honest about it. Don't live in denial.

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Response to Red Knight (Reply #125)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:40 PM

129. +1million. Thank you for your post

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Response to Red Knight (Reply #125)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:04 PM

178. Some posters here have a moral compass and policy preferences that are whatever the party tells them

With a broken compass one can go from ant-war to war
Anti corporate corruption to pro corporate corruption
Even anti killing children to pro killing them
Pro civil rights to anti civil rights

any 180 really, they trade their personal views and any morality they may have had for one of these


It doesn't matter if WE get fucked in their view, what matters is the team that fucks you.
When the other team does it they agree with us these things are bad.
When the chosen team does it they promote the fucking.

Some call that hypocrisy, I call it worse things upon occasion.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #178)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 11:52 AM

261. well said!

LIke I said in my OP...there really is no difference in the 'team' it's just about how obvious they are when screwing you.

thanks for 'getting it'

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:53 PM

136. With Too Many Years Under My Belt, I Am With You - Tired Of This BS

eom

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:54 PM

138. I don't put stickers on my car, but I understand where you're coming from.

There's not too much faith left that things will change when both parties get along too well in voting against the people and it seems like half the people don't even know it.

I'm still trying to convince myself that it's worth it to support the Democratic party just because the other party is worse. And thats getting real thin.

It won't be the last time 'Rome' will burn.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:57 PM

139. Then you and everyone who recc'd....

...this post for the wrong reason is part of the problem.

You can be mad at O and the Dems--so am I.
But you don't get to go into your shell and just work on your own life.

You still have to figure out how to stay active, how to take over the Democratic party locally and how to get others involved. You have to get smarter.

Did you think hopey-changy meant you could just sit back?

The forces you're angry at love it when you go home and become a-political. You've been played.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #139)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:03 PM

142. + 1

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Response to zentrum (Reply #139)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:48 PM

239. You're wasting logical thought on the same ilk that sat at home in 2010 and gave republicans

enormous power to obstruct the very progress they claim they want. I have little use for posers. If they think they prove something by taking stickers off their cars, let them knock themselves out. I live in the real world, where real problems are solved with planning and determination and where setbacks that have to be overcome are common.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:02 PM

141. You're in Cali? Replace it with one of these:


He's up for reelection in 2014.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:05 PM

145. Your choice, bye

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Response to still_one (Reply #145)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:15 PM

149. Thats all it takes to tell someone goodbye on here?? lol

write me off too, while youre at it.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #149)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 05:03 PM

205. No problem, change does not happen overnight, and I do not care for people who throw there arms up

In the air and say I am done.

Civil rights, woman's rights, and labor rights movements did not just happen because they said they did not want to deal with it because, wah, the current politicians don't want to.

They worked with politicians to get those changes done, and they marched and they fought, and it did not happen over night

I lived through those times, and was part of those movements. All the work that had been done for those movements is being undone now, because a lot of people are too lazy to vote, or put up candidates that represents a progressive philosophy.



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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:20 PM

151. All hail the lame ship Poutrage!

 

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:23 PM

153. "Wall St still in business"

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:30 PM

156. Obama has actually accomplished a lot.

 

This post highlights only the negative.

Remember, Obama has offered to relinquish the power which has been given to the Executive branch. That's a noble, selfless thing to do, and something to be proud of. Blame neocons for Gitmo and The Patriot Act. They are to blame.

You'll be proud to be a Democrat again once the immigration reform endeavors crumble, and the entire country knows exactly why.

My advice: take a break for a while. But don't discourage others from voting.

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Response to Billy Pilgrim (Reply #156)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 07:17 PM

221. That's what the ones who give up, dwell on .. the negatives.

The glass isn't half empty.. it's always empty.

never around to celebrate the successes. Only come out to rage on poor poor them. Not appreciating how many people are actually being helped.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:31 PM

157. Good for you. Both parties are screwing us. Let's revolt right now.

You can still be politically active.

Consider radical activism as a way to work around the corporate dominated political system.

Let's make a big popular uprising and force the government to do what we want.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:34 PM

159. Please pay attention to your local races

living in NC, I can attest to the horrors that low voter turnout combined with redistricting can produce!

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:38 PM

163. I did that in the first term after he caved to the GOP on the extension of the Bush tax cuts

Kinda felt like doing it now, but I'm going to ride this shit out and see what happens.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:38 PM

164. Also...

 

I bet Romney would have repealed the entire Patriot Act his first day in office.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:49 PM

167. President Palin President Romney! AWWWK!

President Palin! President Romney! AWWWK!

Well, the usual people are out saying the usual things. Being useless as usual in any discussion between adults.

So basically I'd vote for Obama in 2016. I'm pissed at the same things you are, but I'd vote for him simply because a woman's right to choose, minority rights, and LGBT people even being allowed to exist are too important to let the Republicans fuck up. Then I'd do what I'm doing now: wait for the term to end and hope we can get someone willing to do stuff for the people instead of someone that only reacts when poll numbers tell him he must or not get reelected. We really need to cause hell in the primaries this next election.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:53 PM

168. Perhaps you noticed alot of the stickers were magnetic

much less work in being wishy washy .

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:54 PM

169. Me too. I replaced mine with a "Greenwald for Pulitzer Prize 2013" sticker.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:03 PM

176. Sorry, but people like you are the reason we got St. Ronnie instead of Jimmy Carter II.

Jimmy wasn't pure enough for the left ... so they gave us the far right fringies. History repeating itself.

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #176)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:06 PM

181. I more than agree with this statement!

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #176)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:15 PM

188. Nope. A bad economy and the Iran hostage crisis is what gave us Reagan.

Actually liberals voted for Carter in 1980 by a wide margin. Is wasn't the left's "purity" that took him down. It was mostly events out of his control. And it's too bad because in hindsight we can see that Carter was one of our great presidents.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:09 PM

182. stop boo hooo....i took off my stickers

Stop you moaning and groaning about this country and its president...You want Bush back, how about Romney, maybe he has some free time to come turn this country into a major death trap.....you want change, you want hope, then in 2014 vote democrats into office and lets control both houses. You want gitmo closes...congresses fault its not the Presidents, you want our troops in Pakistan, instead of drones.... come to reality dude war sucks and people die in wars, Wall street.....will NEVER NEVER be too small to control, unless ohh wait yes Glass-Steagall..congress, poverty on the rise, no jobs, pipelines ...CONGRESS CONGRESS CONGRESS....the President has very little power in controlling what congress does, so friend vote the Republicans out in 2014 and allow some of these bills to get to life... now as far as your stickers, well man up or woman up whomever you are, and thank your stars you are not living in Haiti.....

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Response to rtracey (Reply #182)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:13 PM

185. You stop "moaning and groaning"

We are (still) a free country and we can moan and groan all you want. Too bad if you don't like it!

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Response to rtracey (Reply #182)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:43 PM

196. Weak.

You come here with that weak-sauce argument...
Oh, well you're lucky we didn't get Romney! Oh, I guess W was good enough for you! As though we haven't heard these weak argument points a few thousand times already...


You should be happy you're not Haitian!
Okay, that's new one. You get credit for originality.

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Response to Quantess (Reply #196)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 04:50 PM

203. see

You are missing the point...I believe I am more liberal then anyone who claims he is throwing in the towel on this President...... His hands are tied...you claim my arguments are weak.....put your vote where your mouth is..... bring the Repubs to their greedy knees in 14 and then lets see what weak is. If you are a republican, then sorry dude, your in for a shitty time next year, W.... f him, worst president there was in the country ever... we are lucky not to have Romney in the whitehouse, not sure if you agree

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Response to rtracey (Reply #203)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:29 AM

248. Yes, but that's the same discussion we've been having for months, now.

Be grateful Romney isn't president!
I am extremely grateful, every time I think of it. But, that's a poor consolation prize. It's a cop-out argument.

We expected better from Obama. In a way, Obama delivered what he advertised because it should have been apparent that Obama is not really liberal. But it was false advertising because we didn't expect a continuation of W. "Change", remember?

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:18 PM

189. Clinton fatigue deja vu

When Clinton was elected in 1992 I was hopeful and excited that he would undo some of the fuckups of the previous 12 years.

When he ran for his second term I was pretty much disillusioned but I voted for him because he was preferable to his opponent.

By the time he left office in 2001 I was glad to see his ass going out the door.

When Obama was elected in 2008 I was hopeful and excited that he would undo some of the fuckups of the previous 28 years.

When he ran for his second term I was pretty much disillusioned but I voted for him because he was preferable to his opponent.

I'm on schedule to being happy to see him go in 2016.

I thought maybe Obama was a candidate who recognized that things were pretty fucked up in the US and that the voters really wanted something different. Evidently they weren't fucked up enough that he felt the need to change them.

I understand he has had an obstructionist congress standing in his way. I'm just sad that he hasn't tried very hard.

And I will think very hard before I vote for any candidate who doesn't announce his prospective appointments for offices like Attorney General, WH Chief of Staff, Treasury Secretary. Rahm Emanuel should have tipped us all off.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:27 PM

192. Congratulations...?

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:28 PM

193. I love how so many here think I am saying this because I am POUTING

that's just ridiculous and really minimizes the points I made.

My OP was about the fact that the TEAM we are on doesn't matter in the long run or on the ground. Everyone is so fast to say "well good luck living under a republican pres"...but that's just choosing to run to the other extreme.

I have lived in poverty since 1992...I never felt the great economic boom of the clinton years, and ya, I guess I could say I felt the crunch under Bush but that just happened to coincide with the years I left my abusive husband and had to scrap to survive as well...I should have known it was not going to make a difference no matter how much Obama said such wonderful things when the banksters got bailed out and we got sold out...

Hey, I have always voted Dem and Green Party...I loved Clinton, Gore and Obama ...but the reality is that nobody is making these changes we need. I don't give a crap about your 'obstruction' excuses... if these things were truly important, shit would get done. Instead ALL of the bastards in DC (both parties) are merely Corporate puppets...the climate is gonna get worse faster than we thought, Gitmo will NEVER close, and the rest of us better shut up and toe the party line or else we will end up getting a visit from the guys in the black vans.

Nope, I am just voicing my disdain here because you all have always been good at discussion, and I know many of you understand the feelings I am having. many of you understand the exhaustion of hoping things will get better and watching as they continue to devolve....

I am done believing in anything bigger than myself. Activism is for the young who have not been jaded by LIFE.
My goal is to finish my school, try to find a job that will be better than $12/hr and take care of my kids the best I can.
The planet will continue to die, the corporations will continue to buy our elections, and all we can do is continue to survive amidst the crap as it rolls downhill...

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Response to FirstLight (Reply #193)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 11:54 AM

262. since this got lost in the shuffle

I will repost downthread again...

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:31 PM

194. I altered the name Obama on my running cap.

It was my one and only piece of memorabilia.

Now it looks like a series of peaks and valleys.

I've also unsubscribed from all Dem websites and hang up on them when they pester me with calls.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:36 PM

195. Mine remains on my vehicle n/t

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:45 PM

198. On the contrary...Obama has been the MOST SUCCESSFUL PRESIDENT IN US HISTORY!!

 

Frankly, I'm tired of the so-called "progressives" on this site who wail at what the president is not succeeding at doing despite the most entrenched, most oppressive attack conducted against the people in the history of the world, by the GOP. The problem is that you are equating Obama to not being able to "politically" win against the GOP, when in fact the GOP is ILLEGALLY and OPPRESSIVELY CONDUCTING THEIR CONTINUED DESTRUCTION in the FIRST place!!!

Look, we got single payer health care passed at unbelievable odds, despite a rigged Congress and Supreme Court. We eliminated work requirements for welfare, we are in the process of eliminating immigration racism, and we are ensuring that our flagship progressive states such as California and Illinois provide the progressive blueprint for Obama to continually keep his promise on fundamentally transforming this country.

Keep in mind: it is rEPUBLICANS whom are destroying this country....NOT Obama!!

It is rEPUBLICANS who are decmimating our economy by hoarding their riches overseas and not paying their fair share of taxes...NOT Obama!

Finally, it is rEPUBLICANS whom are in the process of trying to prevent Immigration reform... NOT Obama.

NOW....and LET ME BE CLEAR:

IMMIGRATION REFORM is the NUMBER ONE ISSUE. We are in complete control of the media, we are in complete control of the main communications companies, we are in complete control of the IRS, and finally, we are in complete control of the Internet, including the ability to shut out disruptive political elements. We have prevented the Tea Party from taking over the political process in 2012, enabling Obama's reelection, and with Immigration reform, we will be able to fast track immigration to voting citizenship through Executive Order. But we MUST get the Immigration Reform bill passed for the Executive Order to be implemented; in THIS way we can GUARANTEE that we get the House back, and up the count of progressive senators, to the point that Obama can THEN be able to complete the transformation of America.

Once we have the House, the Senate, and one more Supreme Court Justice, we will then have effectively banned the GOP for DECADES, which means PERMANENTLY. At THAT time, our progressive agenda will be allowed to flourish, and ALL people will then benefit.

So I'm BULLISH on Obama, even now, against the most destructive villains the world has ever known: the republican party. Now YOU get a backbone and grit your teeth; the next year will be a rollercoaster, but with the elimination of the ability of the GOP to be effective at the ballot box, we will WIN.

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Response to BanTheGOP (Reply #198)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 04:31 PM

202. ...




Immigration reform? really?


sorry, the planet is fried, that's beyond being an issue for ALL countries. And Prez Obama said something to the effect it would be a 'top priority for our children'... so ya


I have a backbone, it's just that I use it to work on my survival, and prepare for the coming shitstorm that mother nature is gonna hand us.

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Response to BanTheGOP (Reply #198)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 05:06 PM

207. I do not waste time with folks that give up so easily. I say let em give up, there are plenty of

People out there who won't give up, and work to change through the system.



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Response to BanTheGOP (Reply #198)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 07:10 PM

219. We've had enough help from California and Illinois, thank you very much

Both states have a world of problems on their own home turf that they need to deal with before trying to monopolize their hold on the Democratic Party. There are still 48 other states in this equation, and Democrats in every one of them who deserve to be heard.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 05:04 PM

206. Boo fucking hoo

Jesus! Go sulk already, because your bumper stickers made all the difference. This place is loaded with punks.

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Response to LuvLoogie (Reply #206)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 05:07 PM

208. Ain't that the truth

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Response to LuvLoogie (Reply #206)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 07:26 PM

222. "This place is loaded with punks." CO-SIGN!!

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 05:13 PM

209. You never really loved him!!

You thought you did, but you didn't really.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 05:26 PM

211. A lot of people feel the same and are getting on with their lives

You are taking the most progressive and activist stance there is, you're going to do something real with your real life. People are shopping locally, buying organic, using less energy, polluting less, refusing to buy slave-labor goods, boycotting corruption in every way they can.

The world of politics is in "post-reality politics", it's all lies, propaganda and cronyism. Wars are for-profit, health care is for-profit, running for office is for-profit, spying is for-profit, none of it is for the people and all of it preys on the people.

I've seen this coming for years as corruption has taken over, people move on with their lives and stop living in the corrupt world. It's inevitable and has occurred numerous times in history, a history which many people choose to ignore.

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Response to Corruption Inc (Reply #211)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 07:11 PM

220. THANKS

glad you 'get it'...what I was trying to relate

I realize that the US Govt and it's efforts have about as much to do with MY life as my own City Council...and that ain't sayin' much!

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 06:53 PM

215. So much butthurt over the truth, here...

Write it 1000 times until it sinks in, folks - getting pissed off at "your guy" and refusing to support him any more is what thinking, political people do. Butthurt because your team screwed up and you can't admit it, is just pathetic. The party and it's leaders don't change until the party members make them. That's how the christian right turned the rethugs from dinosaurs to crackheads. You have the chance to make the Dems great again, or continue the long decline into suck. But you won't do it by playing Loyalty Über Alles.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 07:08 PM

218. I don't do bumper stickers, political or otherwise.

Nor do I let one anger me or ruin my day.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 07:28 PM

223. Yawn

This one is as old as the hills!

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:16 PM

229. Good for you, I think old political bumper stickers look tacky.

Mine come off a day or two after the election.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:31 PM

237. I am never get emotionally attached to a politician enough to put that person's sticker on my car.

I take a rational view on politicians. All, to some extent, are self serving. I protect my own future and don't leave that in the hands of anyone else, including politicians that I vote for and respect.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:12 AM

249. I found some my old Obama stickers and plastered them on my car. I am having one made that says,

OBAMA: ATTACKED AND STILL STANDING!

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:15 AM

250. I never had one to begin with. too right wing for me. nt

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:36 AM

251. Oh, good fucking grief.

What annoying petulance. Santa didn't bring you everything on your gift list? WELCOME TO DEMOCRACY! It's slow, cumbersome, easily corrupted.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance and you want to curl up for a nap because it's too damn tough?

Who's shooting at you? You're gonna take your vote and go home so the Kochs and Waltons can own the Senate in 2014? God, you are easy to distract.

Do I hear one bloody word asking why we give contracts to private companies who allow assholes to spread our secrets to the world?

I want an investigation into the hiring practices of NSA's private contractors. Is there one of them we can trust?

Get off your delicate duff and give your congressman a change of trajectory.

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Response to aquart (Reply #251)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:26 AM

255. you true believers really crack me up. This guy has been a complete disaster.

he has delivered on almost nothing. On the most important issues ha has gone the way of the previous administration but go ahead keep defending him, I find all the bowing and scraping at the feet of Obama amusing.

another obamapoligist defending that attacks on our freedom and attacking the messenger.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #255)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:48 AM

256. I'm sure Rand Paul will protect your freedoms.

I don't recall saying one word about Obama. Although it is now clear that you did confuse him with Santa Claus.

Boy, the whiners who quit when it gets rough because it ain't perfect. That's the lack of common sense and guts that gave us a Republican House in 2010. It never once occurred to you that Obama isn't running again and the goal here is to get Democrats to sit out 2014?

Seriously, one day you'll chase a bright shiny object right into oncoming traffic.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #255)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 07:03 AM

258. what utter non-sense.

some of you people need therapy.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:20 AM

253. I removed mine right after the last election.....

I have been voting since 1976 and no politician has been as disappointing as Obama. He promised the most and delivered on nearly nothing.....

He made us believe, he made fools of us. That won't happen again. I know better now.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #253)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:23 PM

266. ya,

like I said...believing in something is for those not jaded by LIFE... right?

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 07:18 AM

259. I Was Gonna Take Mine Off...

Until I saw a "W - 04" bumper sticker on a car the other day.

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 11:55 AM

263. Yet here we are, two days later, and he STILL has not resigned from office!

Some things are just inexplicable, I guess.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #263)

Sat Jun 15, 2013, 07:17 AM

267. OMG! I just realized that Obama is doing all of this illegal shit on purpose!!

So, he has to resign!!

So, then Joe gets kicked up to the Numero Uno slot.
And he names Hillary as his veep.

Then after the 2014 mid-term elections, after we take control back of the House, Joe resigns to spend more time on the golf course.
And Hillary gets kicked up the Numero Uno slot.
And viola, we have our first female President of the United States!!!

And then because she will have only served 2 years of 1 term, she will run for re-election in 2016 as the incumbent!

Brilliant strategy.
Dems win!

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Response to FirstLight (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:07 PM

264. wow...so much vitriol... let's reinterate

I had posted the following reply upthread and it got lost in the shuffle yesterday. It amazes me how many of you think I am just whining and stomping my feet. Or how many of you think I am flaking on Democracy, the party, etc...
The OP was meant to be a thought provoker. Seriously, those of you being snarky are just THAT amped up that you will defend Obama and the 'team' till your dying breath?
Here's my response from yesterday:
~~~~

I have lived in poverty since 1992...I never felt the great economic boom of the Clinton years, and ya, I guess I could say I felt the crunch under Bush but that just happened to coincide with the years I left my abusive husband and had to scrap to survive as well...I should have known it was not going to make a difference no matter how much Obama said such wonderful things when the banksters got bailed out and we got sold out.

Hey, I have always voted Dem and Green Party...I loved Clinton, Gore and Obama ...but the reality is that nobody is making these changes we need, like, NOW. I don't give a crap about your 'obstruction' excuses... if these things were truly important, shit would get done. Instead ALL of the bastards in DC (both parties) are merely Corporate puppets...the climate is gonna get worse faster than we thought, Gitmo will NEVER close, and the rest of us better shut up and toe the party line or else we will end up getting a visit from the guys in the black vans.
(And...IMO the ENVIRONMENT and CLIMATE will have our asses before anything changes policy-wise...then it will be too late)
Nope, I am just voicing my disdain here because you all have always been good at discussion, and I know many of you understand the feelings I am having. many of you understand the exhaustion of hoping things will get better and watching as they continue to devolve....

I am done believing in anything bigger than myself. Activism is for the young who have not been jaded by LIFE.
My goal is to finish my school, try to find a job that will be better than $12/hr and take care of my kids the best I can.
The planet will continue to die, the corporations will continue to buy our elections, and all we can do is continue to survive amidst the crap as it rolls downhill...

ADDING: in reflection and speaking to friends about these thoughts yesterday. I have realized that what happens in DC has about as much effect on MY life as my City Council, and that isn't saying much. I may still vote next year and try to help things along on 'paper'...sure, great, keep those dems in Congress, whatever. But personally, this life has become more about preparing for the shit that is about to hit the fan on several fronts, than how much I support the 'cause'...

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