Don't smoke pot, drive -- you're twice as likely to crash

[BlueToTheBone]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/46343686/ns/today-today_health/t/dont-smoke-pot-drive----youre-twice-likely-crash/


snip
Experts at Dalhousie University in Canada reviewed nine studies of more than 49,000 people involved in accidents on public roads involving one or more motor vehicles, including cars, trucks, buses and motorcycles. Marijuana use was confirmed by blood tests or self-reporting.

Researchers found drivers who had used marijuana within three hours of beginning to drive had nearly double the risk of causing a collision, especially those that were fatal.

Marijuana is the most widely used illegal drug worldwide and rates of its use in drivers are increasing. A 2007 study in Scotland found 15 percent of 537 drivers aged 17 to 39 had used marijuana within 12 hours.

Some experts said education campaigns about the dangers of doing drugs before driving wouldn't work.

snip

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. Oh, MAMA! This is going to be GREAT!

[stevenleser]

5. Pass some over...

[roguevalley]

13. personally, at home fine. on the road no. In the air, no. I dont want

even the idea of impairment anywhere where someone can kill someone else. Booze, drugs, anything.

shoot me.

[Electric Monk]

8. You don't really think very highly of your fellow DUers, do you...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=200578&sub=trans

[Dreamer Tatum]

9. On the contrary, I love a good weed thread. nt

[PufPuf23]

60. There are worse alternatives to weed and weed threads most certainly ;o).

alcohol - tobacco - common addictive Rx drugs.

One should not smoke pot and drive in general.

Alcohol and certain rx drugs are worse, but all such driving is putting others and oneself at more risk.

No arguement.

[renie408]

38. ROFL!! That is EXACTLY what I said when I saw this!!

Ok, not the 'mama' part...

edited to correct typo. Maybe you shouldn't smoke and type, either.

[fishwax]

51. I know I'm a bit late to the party, but

[BlueToTheBone]

71. My jaws are sore with

chewing!
I love these kinds of threads.

[Fuzz]

2. Just hire a driver like I did. Plus you get to stretch out in the back seat and stuff.

Ah, good times.

[TheWraith]

3. No shit.

Any kind of mind-altering chemical fucks with your ability to drive, proportional to how much it alters your normal brain chemistry.

[Enrique]

4. is this controversial

it seems like the most obvious thing in the world to me.

[Dreamer Tatum]

6. Just wait for the Sample of One crowd to show up.

"Why, I've smoked weed every hour since 1927, and I've never had an accident!"

[Noodleboy13]

18. I've smoked weed every hour since 1914, when I wasn't shooting up...

And I ....

Just kidding.
Intoxicated driving of any sort is a dumb idea.


peace,
Noodleboy

[DisgustipatedinCA]

28. that would be me, but I don't extrapolate to include everyone else

See my post below, if interested, but no, I don't wish to create legislation or driving rules based on my own experience.

[fascisthunter]

48. before I drive, I smoke a bowl

[snooper2]

78. depends on the person like everything else...75 year old gramma or 18 year old son shouldn't

More than likely something bad would happen LOL

If I didn't smoke before going out on Saturday to Lowes at 1:30 in the afternoon I may have had a breakdown or ended up shooting someones laptop

All kinds of idiots on the road...almost as bad as church morning around my area. Sure, don't stop at that sign and go ahead and cross over into the left lane without looking

[LynneSin]

7. My mentality is you should not do any types of drugs or alcohol while driving

But that's just me.

Oh and you shouldn't drive when you're sleep deprived either.

[kestrel91316]

24. People shouldn't drive if they don't truly understand the rules of the road.

That's this country's BIGGEST driving problem. That, and the effin' cell phones and texting.

[LynneSin]

29. Nice add!

[RedstDem]

10. Hopefully their next study will

Include cough syrup

[tridim]

11. Anyone have the figures for driving while on prescription narcotics?

For the record I never drove while medicated when I was legal. Not that it wasn't possible, I just chose not to.

[LadyHawkAZ]

12. Shouldn't this be a "duh"?

Why not just boil it down to "don't drive on ANYTHING that alters your mental state, stop end of sentence"?

I'm all for legalization. I'm all for legal Nyquil too, but I don't recommend driving while on it.

[piscesnewmoon]

67. Took the words right outta my mouth!

If you cannot wait until you get home to fire one up, get thee to a Pot Anon meeting. People who drive whilst intoxicated on ANYTHING are raging penis tips!

[SteveW]

14. Did this "study" confirm the use of other substances? Like alcohol? nt

[msanthrope]

17. Wow. Took 'til post #14 for someone to show up....I wonder if it's

delayed response?

[SteveW]

23. So much crap science uses the "ER" approach: Find what you're looking for...

...and conclude whatever you wanted in the first place.

Various anti-drug organizations have done this for years. They review the records of emergency room intakes, and find those who used ____________, then conclude, post hoc ergo propter hoc, that substance_____________ caused whatever problem they point to. Left aside are indications for meth, Heroin, Cocaine and -- the Big One -- alcohol use.

There are studies which evaluate the effect of pot smoking -- and nothing BUT pot smoking -- on driving tests. Beyond the "common sense" rationales, does anyone know the outcomes of these studies?

[Lasher]

59. That is a good point.

The same rationale is used to conclude that alcohol consumption is responsible for every auto accident where a driver has been drinking even slightly.

[LoveIsNow]

15. I'm pretty sure you could guess that even if you were stoned. n/t

[eShirl]

16. doesn't the "marijuana test" only test for the metabolites, from use up to *weeks* before the test?

or is there a new test now that I'm unaware of?

[EOTE]

22. That is correct. And they sampled by self reporting or blood tests.

So it seems to me that they are drawing very unprovable conclusions from this study.

[RainDog]

30. but these people self-reported a 3 hour time frame

so I don't think that argument works for this one.

to me it's just common sense, tho - don't drive if you're tipsy or high.

[eShirl]

32. self-reporting has its own problems, of course

"to me it's just common sense, tho - don't drive if you're tipsy or high. "
no shit.

[RainDog]

33. this confirms another study

that shows the issue of impairment really falls into a 3 hour window. the other study indicated 2 hours as the time that would lend itself to impairment.

so, what's really needed is not a metabolite test, but a saliva test that also, it just so happens, seems to fall within this 3 hour window.

[BlueToTheBone]

72. Now that would put the end to the

we can't test so it can't be legalized.

[flexnor]

19. Pot really opens someone up for DUI

with alcohol, as imperfect as the tests are, a person can calculate how much they've had and how much time has gone by. in a matter of hours, it's out of your system

but with pot, it's in your system for a very long time, even if the effects have worn off, and a person could get a DUI even if they are sober

[mdmc]

20. drive sober

[SteveW]

25. Days after smoking pot, you are sober. But not on a drug test. nt

[mdmc]

35. true

[kestrel91316]

21. I only smoke pot in the privacy of my own home, generally right before bed.

AWESOME sleep aid, lol.

[SteveW]

26. I hear you. Green Cross/Green Shield. nt

[ZombieHorde]

56. I used pot to quit smoking tobacco.

I was about ready to give after a few days, so I got some pot.

It worked really well.

[TexasTowelie]

83. I used pot just so I wouldn't start smoking tobacco.

Wacky tobaccy--it does a body good!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

27. Actually, it depends on your tolerance level

Right up front, people shouldn't drive stoned. It's a good blanket approach to the issue. But, if you're an everyday smoker, driving just isn't that big of a deal. I'm sure that reaction times are slowed by a small but conceivably critical amount, even if the stoner in question feels completely in control, but the remedy for that is to not tailgate people. When I've driven high (lots and lots of times), if you were observing me, you'd see a normal driver--not too slow, not aggressive, not taking chances.

I didn't scan the entire thread, so someone has probably already said this, but it's much more difficult to drive drunk than it is to drive high, and more dangerous all around.

thanks.

[theaocp]

31. What the fuck is the point of this?

My guess is to make people reiterate the concept that bud should remain illegal? This is not a reason to continue to tell criminals that they have free reign to regulate the cannabis market! Even if I take what these people are saying seriously, the obvious conclusion is that alcohol should be a fucking Schedule I substance! Prohibition rules, FTW!

Fuck. this. bullshit. UNREC.

[Dreamer Tatum]

34. The tortured logic of the marijuana advocate

EVERY SINGLE THREAD on weed has at least one post of the following type:

"Alcohol is just as bad or worse, and it's legal. Therefore, weed should be legal, or alcohol should be illegal."

Which is pretty much equivalent to adding an extra bullet to the chamber when playing russian roulette, because after all,
that first bullet is there, isn't it?

(as per usual, I have to stress that I am in favor of legalization)

[theaocp]

36. Are you ok with that hypocrisy?

I'm not, especially when the fedz themselves have been and continue to grow and supply MMJ to patients while busting state operations. While prohibition has been tried and fucking FAILED as a Constitutional Amendment, I do not want to hear from anyone about anything relating even tangentially negative to cannabis until they tell why they aren't in favor of banning alcohol and tobacco as the Schedule I substances they so richly deserve to be. The Russian Roulette argument does not hold water. It means we leave one bullet in the gun. Take the damn bullet out of the gun! Or, at least stop making the false equivalency between alcohol and cannabis. Their proposed scheduling would only be equivalent due to the narcs' ridiculous "attempts" at labeling control. Oh, wait, maybe alcohol should be Schedule II, since it is a pretty fucking good disinfectant.

Regulation can be done by the government to many degrees, but telling the criminals of the world to have at it is unbelievably negligent and inexcusable. Drug "control," my ass. They don't even control their own talking points, but like good conservatives, narcs don't fucking care. They lie and contradict themselves as a habit.

[Dreamer Tatum]

37. So you are NOT in favor of legalization. nt

[theaocp]

40. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

Either the government controls cannabis or criminals do. I choose the government. For some inane reasons related to money, the government thinks criminals can do it better. Fucking FAIL.

However, the same government is quite willing to regulate alcohol and its inherent peddlers. Fucking double fail. Nobody gets to honestly claim cannabis prohibition is anything other than letting criminals regulate the market. Cowardice of the highest order.

Regulate now. Clear enough?

[fascisthunter]

46. Not much room there for confusion

[provis99]

50. put the big bong down, dudester. You're not making any sense.

[theaocp]

53. Here's a strategy or three for you.

Reread, ask clarifying questions, make connections, and engage in discussion. Failing all that, why not make insulting suppositions, call me names, and project lack of comprehension at me. Oh, wait.

[provis99]

54. Peace, Love, Dope, Man!

[EOTE]

75. Does it hurt living with a mind unable to make a logical argument?

I deal with children all the time who are completely unable to utilize logic and instead often lash out with insults when they can't make their case. It must really suck being an adult while still having the logical facilities of a child.

[BlueToTheBone]

73. Peace Out!

I don't want to make any of it illegal. It doesn't need to work that way. Somewhere upthread, I saw that there is a way to saliva test if the inhalation is within 2-3 hours, which would take the argument away of not being able to test...metabolic is 2-3 month window.

We are all on the same side here. Maybe you need some good stuff, you seem stressed. Visit the Emerald Triangle, you should be happier.

[tabasco]

47. LOL. The tortured logic of a single-source believer.

"There was a study, so it has to be true."

[Quantess]

61. Unfortunate that everything is seen as having an angle.

But then, it's a political discussion board so I suppose it comes with the territory. But, it gets tiresome in my opinion. How about we just discuss whatever seems to be a legitimate source?

I'm going to call your argument a slippery slope, because it's a stretch from weed impairs driving to don't legalize it.

[LanternWaste]

80. Much like studies illustrating that driving while intoxicated are to make people reiterate...

"My guess is to make people reiterate the concept that bud should remain illegal?"



Much like studies illustrating that driving while intoxicated are to make people reiterate the concept that alcohol should be illegal? Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

I imagine we draw the conclusions that better validate our own opinions, regardless of the conclusion of the study itself.

[theaocp]

94. I do have an opinion that is not validated by this, yes...

however, I defy the idea that you can compare alcohol and cannabis here. Either prohibition does more good than harm, or it doesn't. A study on the effects of alcohol on driving has a different impact because alcohol is legal and regulated. There's a different stigma attached that allows people to make more informed decisions about their habits. Who the hell is going to be convinced to change their driving habits because of this posted information? The stigma for cannabis is that it is a Schedule I substance and therefore already verrrrry bad and scary! Thus, the information on driving is going to have no impact on those that already use it ... they're already doing something they know is illegal, so who cares?

So, I come back to my original post: what the fuck is the point of this? Pie-in-the-sky dreaming about convincing poe-theeds to not smoke and drive OR reinforcing the meme that cannabis is baaaaad and the people that use it are baaaaad. I believe it to be the latter. And that sucks.

[SteveW]

81. "...reiterate the concept that bud should remain illegal?" That's it. nt

[yup its me]

86. Wow, stay oh so classy with your language, dear chap...

Man, you must just win over everyone with your eloquence...

[theaocp]

93. When you can't argue the message, no matter how it's presented,

you either oppose the message or are ignoring the message. I guess it's academic since you choose to focus on my cursing. How pure of you, dear chap. In the real world, people get hurt and I get angry about that.

[BlueToTheBone]

88. Peace Out, Pal,

This is sort of one of those "fun" threads. Smoke cannabis and love it, don't and love that you don't, don't and hate that others do, seems to me to be the point. Too bad we don't have unrecs anymore.

Perhaps a small toke on the pipe to ease the pain?

[NightWatcher]

39. It's ok though because you'll only be going 5mph

Dude did we hit something?
Aw man I forgot to open the garage door.

[theaocp]

41. Bill Hicks FTW n/t

[fascisthunter]

42. LOL...hahahahaha

what a bunch BS propaganda....

[the other one]

43. okay I will call bullshit

cannabis is detectable in your system for days. its presence doesn't prove impairment. relationship doesn't prove causation .

cannabis is the most widely use illicit drug. these numbers may just show a larger number of users then was believed.

there is press but i can't find the actual study
y, but similar studies have discounted the importance and presence of alcohol in the system, and might be biased

clever propaganda.

[Vattel]

44. I had always heard that pot didn't make you drive worse,

which was surprising because in my personal experience I drive much worse after smoking pot.

[fascisthunter]

45. that's a shame

[the other one]

49. okay here are some studies that disagree

ccguide.org/driving.php

read the studies. not the press releases

[sylvi]

52. Never crashed

But I have missed a shitload of exits.

[pinboy3niner]

55. And 3X as likely to see military helicopters overhead in the middle of LA

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=294586



Okay, that sighting was real...this time.

[Taverner]

57. Well - duh!

Don't drink and drive either!

Or take Oxycontin and drive, or Morphine Sulfate and drive, or Vicodin and drive, or any number of fully legal drugs that can actually kill you...

When you self medicate - stay home. Trust me on that one.

[cherokeeprogressive]

58. Well no fucking shit. I say this as a former Super-Toker.

The point of this post I have trouble with though is the number of hours after smoking.

Do you want to ride with a drinker who left the bar at 2 a.m. in the morning stumbling, snot-slinging drunk, or someone who took a couple of bong hits at midnight?

THAT'S the kicker... get high and wake up refreshed, or take shots and wake up drunk.

[Taverner]

65. As a current super toker, I agree

[renie408]

62. And here is a study by the DOT which refutes that.

This study might be a little more to the point because it actually gave people THC and then evaluated their driving performance. The study you have cited looked at driving records.

I wouldn't drive baked, that just isn't smart. It wouldn't surprise me if smoking effected driving skill.

One thing that I did notice...if the accidents had nearly the double the risk of fatality, how could the drivers have self-reported smoking within three hours of the crash? Were the people in the study ONLY smoking or were they also doing something else? I also doubt that whole 'education campaign' thing. WHY would an education campaign about smoking and driving not work, but an education campaign about drinking and driving supposedly would?

http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/misc/driving/driving.htm

[Taverner]

66. I read that study, and part of it makes sense

One thing I have noticed about 420 is that it makes me much less impulsive than when I'm not high...

[ThomThom]

74. good point ... How many were also drinking?

I think people that smoke every day would have less problem with driving than the week-end partier. I am not a big drinker and I know if I have one drink I am in no condition to drive, where someone else who drinks daily would not be anywhere as messed-up as me after the same drink. So I conclude it must be the same for pot. Thoughts?

[Zax2me]

63. no, man, pot ENHANCES your reaction and driving skills - dude, 'they' are lying to you...

eom

[Maine-ah]

64. in my younger/stupid days...

I drove once while stoned. I waited for the stop sign to turn green so I could go. 25 mph, felt like 50. I still smoke, I don't drive though.

[Tikki]

68. Don't 'anything' drive that would even slightly...

impair your driving skills when you get behind that wheel.

You need to be a skillful driver because if it isn't you impaired it could
be someone else on the road. Drive defensively.

The reason we have to keep going over this time and time again, is because
the penalties for driving while under the influence are a joke and impaired drivers
cross all social and economical lines.




Tikki

[babydollhead]

69. It seems to me that DRIVING is the problem.

I've had too many loved-ones die in car accidents. Cars cars cars, moving that quickley through space, in metal, is a bad thing to run into other things.

[killbotfactory]

70. Driving just isn't that safe to begin with

And not enough drivers realize that.

About 370,000 people died in traffic accidents between 2001 and 2009, nearly 46,250 people a year. This doesn't include injuries.

The people at the following website mapped them all: http://map.itoworld.com/road-casualties-usa

Does any other commonly used tool or device come with such a staggering human cost?

[AngryAmish]

76. I have NEVER crashed a vehicle while high.

Then again I have never been high while operating a vehicle.

I was never a regular user but I would have been a menace. I would have fallen asleep or driven at ten miles per hour.

[Jennicut]

77. Kind of obvious, isn't it?

Don't drink, do pot, drop acid, take lots of prescription drugs, do crystal meth, etc. Also, don't drive with low blood sugar if you are a diabetic. I did that once without knowing it and almost passing out behind the wheel is scary. Always check your levels before you drive. Lesson was learned.
And don't get in the car with stoned/drunk people. That lesson was quickly learned in college. Tell your kids a thousand times until it seeps into their heads. I did my share of pot in my early 20's, it was just in a basement with my brother. No cars.

[raouldukelives]

79. Most of the collisions I've seen or been involved with

Have involved people under the influence of a being an asshole who don't have an inch of common courtesy for their fellow man.
If we really want to limit driving accidents I'd think addressing assholes is a good start. We can work our way down from there to pot and red bull.

[JesterCS]

82. i call bullshit on this. I drive safer while high. Slower, more alert whats around me, etc n/t

[deutsey]

84. Don't let this happen to you

[ArcticFox]

85. That study has to be bullshit - one reason

How do these researchers know how many people high on marijuana do NOT cause accidents?

[opihimoimoi]

87. my age is 71....born in 41../been stoning forever/not one crash yet...

[fascisthunter]

89. reefer madness in all itself idiocy

oh, can I please partake in what you are having?

[opihimoimoi]

90. LOL, Come, we go from here to "WHEEEeeeeeeewwwwwww" like the piggie in the Ads

[fascisthunter]

91. I am more than half your age

and I can say with what little experience I have had, it has made me into a more productive human being. I do not expect it to be this way everyone else, in fact, the opposite can be true, but for me it has been a miracle.

[opihimoimoi]

92. Watch out for them GOPer assholes...they will bust ya if given 1/2 the op....but, yes, the smokes

can be a life inspiring thingy...good luck