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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe IRS sucks? Then we need more sucking!
The IRS spent $50 million on conferences from 2010-2012. Officeholders from both political parties say this is outrageous!, outrageous!, presumably because government employees are somehow different than employees in every other industry in the world, and shouldn't have conferences. Or something. And stuff.
The IRS's total budget was about $35 billion during that period. So the $50 million spent on conferences is about one-tenth of one percent of their budget.
And during those three years, the IRS collected about $7.5 trillion in taxes. That's right, the IRS's cost for collecting taxes is less than one-half of one percent of what's collected.
One-half of one percent.
Can you imagine if a private-sector business business was that efficient? PayPal charges about six times that much to collect money. And they're cheap compared to their competition.
I am reminded of what Lincoln said when told that Gen. Grant was a drunk: "Tell me what brand of whiskey that Grant drinks. I would like to send a barrel of it to my other generals."
I'm tired of the assholes in Washington beating up on government workers. On whole, they do an excellent job.
former9thward
(31,805 posts)The IRS does not go out and "collect it". If you work for yourself you do the paperwork and send in the money. The IRS is not out there knocking on your door collecting your taxes. So yeah when you have everyone else doing the "collecting" it is pretty easy to be "efficient".
To compare the IRS with Pay pal or anything else is ridiculous. The IRS has the force of law and the threat of prison if you don't comply. Pay pal's cost of doing business would be pretty cheap too if it had that power.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)the funds don't exist.
Much easier to be PayPal, I think.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)without any effort at all on their part.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Don't send it.
See what happens.
Let us know what happens, thanks.
SunSeeker
(51,378 posts)joeglow3
(6,228 posts)TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)to collect.
And as for force of law and threat of prison, if the IRS doesn't have the people to make the determination that ABC Business hasn't paid taxes or filed a return, then the threat of prison is moot.
Also, the IRS has been working hand-in-hand with the DOJ to prosecute these tax evaders and tax cheats - that's the real reason the repukes are calling for Atty Gen Holder's scalp and smearing the IRS.
former9thward
(31,805 posts)Business sends the taxes in because that is what the law says to do. It has nothing to do with not having the IRS coming to the business. They follow the law. If there was a law saying everyone had to give a certain percentage of money to me I would be very efficient at collecting money also. The IRS does has the people to determine whether taxes have been filed or not.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)else because the law says so. Businesses pay their taxes to keep the IRS OUT of their business.
The IRS identifies the tax evaders for the DOJ and the US Attys to prosecute.
former9thward
(31,805 posts)You think no one follows the law unless someone is pointing a gun at their head. Says more about you than anybody else.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)do things for the altruistic reasons that you project onto them.........
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Somalia!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)trying to besmirch the IRS?
former9thward
(31,805 posts)Pay pal does not have the power of prison to collect money. You think they should be compared with the IRS since you rushed in to defend the poster???
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)PayPal while everyone tries to stiff the IRS.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)It's not clear to me that one could.
dsc
(52,130 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)dsc
(52,130 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I bet the USofA 1% has more money stashed off shore that all other countries put together.
Fascism is painless, it brings on many changes, but you cant take or leave it if you please.
former9thward
(31,805 posts)But people continue to do it because they like to pick and choose something another country is doing that they like or don't like. Greece has a long history and culture of tax evasion by all income classes. We don't. People fill out their taxes or have someone do it and in general terms follow the law. Yes there are always some who don't but they are on the margins as much as people who commit violent crime. 100% different history and culture than Greece.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)QED...
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)quarterly taxes. And at this time, there are so many self-employed contractors.
Further, taxes have to be collected from businesses. That's not always easy.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Let them take online training courses. If they need to see a presentation from someone, set up a videoconference.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Employee morale is pretty important.
That's probably why Costco is prospering, while it's competitors are not:
Costco's Profit Soars To $459 Million As Low-Wage Competitors Struggle
Given that the IRS is pretty efficient...
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)in order to keep "employee morale" sufficiently high?
Two? Six? Ten?
Perhaps business owners who are DUers could weigh in here. Do you find the morale of your employees falling to unacceptably low levels when you don't have them attend a certain number of baseball games at your expense?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)And I'd like to be on the third base side, on the right side of an aisle.
I guess my morale would be acceptable with 6-8 games if you can swing that. Oh, and throw in dinner at the Stadium Club, will ya?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)They could be smart like Sam's Club.
dsc
(52,130 posts)I don't know how much it costs to attend a game now but lets say it is 200. Lets further say that a typical agent makes 50k a year. That makes each game .4% of her salary. I recently did a temp job where I got a bonus for a job well done. It was a higher percent than that.
Cerridwen
(13,251 posts)Monetary bonuses for rank-and-file government employees is restricted to the point of not-quite-non-existent.
Many supervisors try to find other ways to reward employees and teams who've gone above and beyond or who have survived the onslaught of changing regulations, policies, and work-loads.
The IRS was down 10,000 employees in 2012 from 2011. I'm pretty sure there wasn't a commensurate reduction in the work-load.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)pay for IRS employees to get bonuses?
dsc
(52,130 posts)and frankly I don't particularly have a problem with giving workers who perform well bonuses. I would rather pay for bonuses than for bombs.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)How about if we work together to restore decent jobs for the rest of America?
My wife is currently applying for a government job, after taking some years off to raise our son. It has excellent benefits. It also pays about 30% *less* than comparable private-sector jobs. We figure it's probably a wash in the end, compensation-wise.
Is my wife applying because it's the only job she can get? Well, she has an Ivy League degree, so I'm guessing not.
Cerridwen
(13,251 posts)Correction; there's no "maybe" about it.
You don't make a better world by dragging people down; you make a better world by lifting people up. You're coming at it from the crabs in a bucket angle; drag everyone else down destroying yourself in the process.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)and are anxious to repeat as often as possible?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)was such a cherished progressive ideal.
Cerridwen
(13,251 posts)I wouldn't expect you to know that.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)would be definitive.
Baseball games and hotel rooms to boot...
The horror...
I'm just guessing that the answer to the question is "no".
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Thanks.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)So why should I be paying out of my taxes for IRS employees who are earning more than me and have more job security than me to go to baseball games at my expense?
blue neen
(12,308 posts)"Believe it or not, there is something even worse than having to prepare your tax return. It's finding out that someone else already filed a return in your name, under your Social Security number, to collect a fraudulent refund."
"And that's just the beginning of your troubles."
"At best, it takes about six months for the IRS to resolve an identity theft case. At worst? It can take more than a year. All the while, victims wait for their rightful refunds, and thieves sometimes strike again."
"Identity theft is a big and growing problem, and the crooks appear to be one step ahead of the IRS."
"Last year, the number of incidents reached 1.8 million, J. Russell George, the Treasury inspector general for tax administration, told a Senate panel this week."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/04/11/tax-returns-identity-theft-editorials-debates/2076077/
In reality, we ALL are victims. The IRS (taxpayers) are the ones who are paying for all of those fraudulent claims and the increased costs caused by the investigations.
If you have a chance, read the whole article. USA Today is not my favorite source for news, but they spell out this problem fairly well.
Thanks.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)we would all be better off.
blue neen
(12,308 posts)It's an enormous problem and not going away any time soon. It's too lucrative, and it's easy money for the thieves. They don't want to give this up.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and "conferences" at fancy hotels, paid for by us?
I have no problem with a fair salary, decent benefits, and job security. But let's shitcan the free sports tickets and swanky hotel stays at taxpayer expense.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Baseball games is an outrageous use of taxpayer dollars. They should all live like monks so we can funnel all our taxpayer dollars instead to the MIC or as subsidies to big oil or finacial firms. Those conferences are really offensive..... If you're a teabagger. I'm sure they share your outrage. Are you sure you didn't get lost on your way to free republic?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)I guess "must approve of taxpayer-funded sports tickets and conferences for IRS employees" should be added to DU's Terms of Service.
Meanwhile, I await my banning.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)And spouting right wing talking points. Funny your need to respond to every post pointing out your right wing outrage only gives the OP more visibility. Good job!
cali
(114,904 posts)I thought so when I went on them and I think so now. and shove your teabagger crap back up the hole it came from, honey.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)People need downtime, and return refreshed and ready for action. Nobody should get less than 3 weeks paid vacation, and preferably 4.
SunSeeker
(51,378 posts)madville
(7,397 posts)You have law enforcement backing and the power to seize property and send people to prison for not paying. Most businesses would increase efficiency and profits with that model.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)As someone that spent his career as a "hired gun" for both governments, including every branch of the military, and private enterprise, I found that in general government operations are both more efficient and much more austere.
And guess where I found to be the very best run large organization? The USPS.
madville
(7,397 posts)It probably varies by field. I've been in the military, worked for state and federal contractors, and been a federal civilian employee. If the private contractors had run things like the military or federal models they would have been bankrupt and out of business quickly.
In my experience the private sector would have three people tasked with multiple times more work than on the government side where it would have been 10 people doing a fraction of work.
That's why I wound up back as a federal civilian employee, much less workload for a little less pay but much better benefits.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)I did the back-end information, reporting infrastructure, and financials. Government's goal is not profit but accomplishing as much as possible for as little as possible.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/05/15/2016821/affordable-care-act-repeal-taxpayer-money/
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)All congresspeople would be paid their full salary regardless of whether these stupid votes had been held. So the votes did not really "cost" $55 million. I guess you could argue that Congress could have spent the time wasted with these votes doing something wonderful and productive but that's hard to do with a straight face.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And think the worst of government...go Issa!!!!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Who wants to privatize everything
cali
(114,904 posts)and these conferences are largely a bullshit waste of it.
it's pathetic that anyone would defend this kind of wasteful spending.
50 million dollars is a lot of money.
Hardwarenuts
(1 post)I have to disagree.
I filed a Amended Tax Return and was due a refund. My tax preparer made a mistake.
The refund should have been sent out in 12 weeks. What efficient business takes twelve weeks to process a refund?
I now have been waiting 28 weeks!
When you call, your on hold for 40 minutes. What other efficient business puts callers on hold for 40 minutes.
They do what they want, because they DO NOT have to be accountable.
It's a good thing other businesses are not as inefficient as the IRS.
Bmore84
(2 posts)The IRS is the only debt collection service that is backed up by a monopoly of violence, so what do they possibly need to attend $50 million worth of conferences for? They can literally destroy someone's life over or take their freedom simply for failure to pay a bill, even if the person was unaware of it several years down the road. The way I see it there is no benefit to having anyone from the IRS attend any conference, let alone $50 million dollars worth of conferences.
They are only "efficient" because they have a fearful reputation that allows them to do very little on their end to collect on debt owed. Your comparison between the and a private business is pretty laughable.
Keep licking those boots, believing it is a patriotic duty to pay more taxes and hopefully with any luck the IRS can attend $100 million ore in conferences... on something that is clearly money well spent.