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Thu May 30, 2013, 11:42 PM

On Christian fundamentalism

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by cyberswede (a host of the General Discussion forum).

It would seem that only two groups of people interpret the Bible literally;

fundamentalists and atheist.

how ironic

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Arrow 35 replies Author Time Post
Reply On Christian fundamentalism (Original post)
arely staircase May 2013 OP
Electric Monk May 2013 #1
arely staircase May 2013 #2
Electric Monk May 2013 #4
arely staircase May 2013 #5
Electric Monk May 2013 #17
Electric Monk May 2013 #8
Anymouse May 2013 #3
arely staircase May 2013 #6
hrmjustin May 2013 #19
Anymouse May 2013 #22
hrmjustin May 2013 #24
Anymouse May 2013 #28
hrmjustin May 2013 #31
Anymouse May 2013 #7
arely staircase May 2013 #9
Anymouse May 2013 #10
GoneOffShore May 2013 #11
liberal_at_heart May 2013 #29
hrmjustin May 2013 #21
RainDog May 2013 #12
Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #13
backscatter712 May 2013 #14
Anymouse May 2013 #18
JaneyVee May 2013 #15
hrmjustin May 2013 #16
Anymouse May 2013 #20
cynatnite May 2013 #23
Anymouse May 2013 #25
hrmjustin May 2013 #27
Anymouse May 2013 #30
hrmjustin May 2013 #32
cbayer May 2013 #26
Permanut May 2013 #33
defacto7 May 2013 #34
cyberswede May 2013 #35

Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2013, 11:47 PM

1. Atheists interpret the Bible literally?

"Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)


Fuck that shit.

for example....

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #1)

Thu May 30, 2013, 11:50 PM

2. of course

an example being any time Christians are criticized for believing in the creation story or Noah's ark as a literal historical fact.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #2)

Thu May 30, 2013, 11:54 PM

4. I think you and I have different definitions about what "interpreting it literally" means.

This discussion belongs in one of the Religion forums, anyways. I expect it will soon be locked as Off Topic for GD.

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #4)

Thu May 30, 2013, 11:57 PM

5. if this belongs in religion

so does the one about fundamentalism being a mental illness.

do you also object to that one?

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #5)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:15 AM

17. I hadn't read that thread past the headline. Now that I have, it plays out pretty much as I'd

predict such a thread would.

I'd leave that open while closing yours because that one is at least partially about politics, and not just trying to start a flame war (and poorly, I might add) because your belief system was threatened but you have difficulty articulating quite why.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #2)

Thu May 30, 2013, 11:58 PM

8. Are you coming at this from the point of view of a Christian trying to define what Atheists believe?

I'm having difficulty understanding the reasoning behind your thread.

Atheists (that I know) don't like a-la-carte Christians saying it's ok to pick and choose which parts are literal and which are metaphor, if that's what you're sort of getting at. If it's the literal unerring word of God, then own it and all of it. If it's not, then admit that instead.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2013, 11:53 PM

3. John 3:16 Basis for torture ~

As an example to parents all over the world, God had his son tortured and killed for a rule he made up to redeem those who he condemned.

If it is okay for God to torture and kill his kid, . . .

You cannot cherry pick the good stuff and ignore the bad and claim it is a good book. I on the other hand, can cherry pick it, because I don't believe any of it, and there is far more hatred and violence in the Bible than love and compassion. No. Atheists pointing out flaws in the Bible are not the same as Fundamentalists.

Nice try, but no.

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Response to Anymouse (Reply #3)

Thu May 30, 2013, 11:58 PM

6. well, how

convenient.

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Response to Anymouse (Reply #3)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:18 AM

19. We can believe what we want in the book. It is a book of it's time.

We believe it is divinely inspired but it is written by men, and it comes with it ancient prejudices.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #19)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:25 AM

22. Which if it were divinely inspired. . . .

God could simply have inspired the writers to say that "slavery and child-rape are wrong. Genocide is wrong."

It was written by ancients from the Bronze Age for sure, but all of what is written there could have been done without the help of divine inspiration.

Now in such a barbaric age, telling people that slavery is wrong or epilepsy can be treated with an extract of the deadly nightshade plant (phenobarbital) that would be inspired.

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Response to Anymouse (Reply #22)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:29 AM

24. Yes many believers such as myself wish it were more clear cut. But it is not.

It is a product of its time and it reflects the values of it's time.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #24)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:36 AM

28. Because

no divine inspiration was required to produce it.

On the other hand, lots of people have claimed (and some still do) its "truths" were the justification of the genocide of American natives, of slavery, of segregation.

The divinely inspired claim is what gives justification to Rev Fred Phelps and people like him. (Oh wait, they're not "true Christians.")

The divinely inspired claim is what gave justification to those who attacked the World Trade Center. (Oh wait, they're not "true Muslims.")

The only reason that Christianity is not as violent and cruel as it was in our own history right through the Civil War (and somewhere beyond) is because it was forcibly dragged into the modern age by the Enlightenment, also not divinely inspired.

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Response to Anymouse (Reply #28)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:39 AM

31. You know we can use your passion in the religion room. You should come and check us out at times.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2013, 11:58 PM

7. And how else should one interpret . . .

. . . the myriads of stories in the Old Testament about seizing virgins for the army to rape, other than literally? Is there some metaphor or allegory about raping children that atheists are missing, some "underlying good" to genocide of whole nations?

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Response to Anymouse (Reply #7)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:00 AM

9. oh possibly the way a majority of christians in this world interpret it

if you think most Christians reject evolution, you prove my point.
or do you accept the fact most of us believe in science and evolution?

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #9)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:04 AM

10. I don't know . . .

. . . what the majority of Christians believe. It is irrelevant. They provide cover for the truly awful Dominionists and such with a book filled with hate mongering and ten commandments antithetical to the Bill of Rights, by upholding it as even some allegorical truth.

Free speech and association are sins.

How else does one interpret "You shall have no other god before me?"

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Response to Anymouse (Reply #10)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:07 AM

11. I'm with you.

Sounds like someone is spoiling for a dust up.

And it's not you.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #9)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:38 AM

29. well those are not fundamentalists, and not all atheists are hostile to

moderate or liberal Christians. My daughter and son are atheists. They have many liberal Christian friends and are just fine with their right to believe what they want. They never mock them. As far as my children are concerned as long as other people's religion doesn't harm them then they are okay with it. Liberal Christianity doesn't harm anybody. But just as there are moderate and liberal Christians and moderate and liberal atheists there are also extremist Christians and extremist atheists. We have seen the harm extremeist Christians do. Some atheists are just self rightous and arrogant and will mock anybody who has mystical beliefs. Then they themselves become the ones harming other people just as the extremist Christians harm others.

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Response to Anymouse (Reply #7)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:20 AM

21. Read it that it was the nature of humanity.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:08 AM

12. anyone who claims a belief in a christian god

is interpreting the bible literally.

if someone comes out of a tradition that tells them not to read the bible because others need to explain it to them - well, I hardly see how that's any better than a literal interpretation because it all boils down to picking and choosing and remaining outside evidence-based reality.

which if fine if someone wants to do that.

but it's not fine that they expect anyone else to support their right to do this by funding religious organizations with tax dollars, or have prayers in schools, or deny women health care, or deny GLBT people rights, etc. because someone else told them what to think, either.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:09 AM

13. Are you upset because we know your fairy tales better than you do?

 

Perhaps it is our superior reading skills that has you all a-twitter?

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:09 AM

14. FAIL.

I thought atheists like myself concluded that the Bible was full of nonsense.

But by all means, continue to pretend that you're clever.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #14)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:16 AM

18. And no more superior . . .

. . . than any other religious book such as the Koran or the Vedas.

But if you wrote the Bible today as a novel, you could not sell it to children, with all the porn and violence.

Does anyone explain the story of Lot's incestuous daughters to the ten-year-old girl's Sunday School class? Or how they are the sexual spoils of war?

On the other hand, they are most certainly taught about burning in hell if they do not conform, and there are plenty of God's agents here on Earth to execute that particular result just a little bit sooner than God would.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:14 AM

15. I get what you're trying to say. That fundies believe the absurdity while atheists mock it.

Literally.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:14 AM

16. How do you mean Atheists taking it literally?

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:19 AM

20. There are Fundamentalists . . .

. . . who would literally kill me for simply not believing as they do.

I just want to protect my children from them. There is a difference in how we take that literal interpretation. They literally believe it, I literally think it is cover-to-cover porn and violence.

I have been told that my epilepsy is the cause of demons - there are those that literally believe that. And such people have cures for epilepsy which I suspect are at odds with my neurologist's prescription for pheonbarbital.

So yeah, I interpret the Bible literally. Because they do and I can only defend myself if I know what they believe.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:26 AM

23. It's not that we atheists are interpretting it literally...

We are using the fundies' literal interpretation against them.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:30 AM

25. Ask Dr Edward Tiller

if there is no consequences for the religious beliefs of others.

Oh, you can't: the religious killed him (in his church).

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Response to Anymouse (Reply #25)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:34 AM

27. That is not what the OP was pointing to.

I think the OP was trying to say that some Atheists have a hard time believing Christians can believe some of the bible and not others.

And yes People of faith and no faith die all the time for their views and it is horrible.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #27)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:38 AM

30. Not too many people . . .

. . . go out killing, shunning, or destroying in the name of atheism.

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Response to Anymouse (Reply #30)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:40 AM

32. That is very true.

I mean that people die for their beliefs everyday and it is horrible.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:34 AM

26. Extremists on both ends. I would not say that this applies to atheists in general,

but it often applies to anti-theists.

Fortunately, most people, both believers and not, are somewhere in the middle and aren't literalists at all.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:42 AM

33. Most fundies I know..

don't know much about their own book. This is the only group I know of that asks people to step forward and commit their lives to the group without reading the book first. Seems kinda backwards.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:49 AM

34. It is ironic.

Fundamentalists think the bible is literally true.

Atheists think the bible is literally nonsense.

Both look at the bible in some literal form. Everyone else has no "absolute" literal context for it.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri May 31, 2013, 01:06 AM

35. Locking.

Host consensus is that this is a religion thread, and therefore counter to the SoP for GD.

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