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Mon May 27, 2013, 05:03 AM

so sex with 14 year olds is ok now?

why don't we have petitions to free these people then?

queens teacher pleads guilty to stat rape

http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/182417/former-queens-teacher-pleads-guilty-to-statutory-rape-charges

Washington county man charged

http://poststar.com/news/blotter/washington-county-man-charged-with-statutory-rape/article_ec79bc60-a4e9-11e2-ac88-0019bb2963f4.html

sex offender pleads

http://wdkn.com/convicted-sex-offender-faces-statutory-rape-charge-for-having-sex-with-teenager

man faces charges

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/crime/man-faces-charge-of-statutory-rape/article_9f7bd1bb-baab-5d8c-a398-7581ec42add8.html

If we are going to be consistant we should start petitions to free all these people

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Reply so sex with 14 year olds is ok now? (Original post)
backwoodsbob May 2013 OP
davidn3600 May 2013 #1
Motown_Johnny May 2013 #10
pokerfan May 2013 #45
tosh May 2013 #87
pokerfan May 2013 #89
Fla Dem May 2013 #94
tosh May 2013 #97
Fla Dem May 2013 #99
JimDandy May 2013 #101
elleng May 2013 #56
galileoreloaded May 2013 #43
Ian David May 2013 #53
snooper2 May 2013 #75
zipplewrath May 2013 #82
snooper2 May 2013 #85
zipplewrath May 2013 #96
JimDandy May 2013 #102
zipplewrath May 2013 #103
JimDandy May 2013 #105
cali May 2013 #2
leftyohiolib May 2013 #12
cali May 2013 #23
leftyohiolib May 2013 #37
stevenleser May 2013 #92
we can do it May 2013 #46
Niceguy1 May 2013 #3
fishwax May 2013 #58
Niceguy1 May 2013 #64
LanternWaste May 2013 #79
blkmusclmachine May 2013 #4
backwoodsbob May 2013 #16
Bluenorthwest May 2013 #60
backwoodsbob May 2013 #63
backwoodsbob May 2013 #33
RudynJack May 2013 #5
leftyohiolib May 2013 #9
Nye Bevan May 2013 #14
RudynJack May 2013 #15
Nye Bevan May 2013 #17
backwoodsbob May 2013 #20
dairydog91 May 2013 #30
backwoodsbob May 2013 #31
dairydog91 May 2013 #36
RudynJack May 2013 #40
DrDan May 2013 #26
ForgoTheConsequence May 2013 #27
RudynJack May 2013 #41
dairydog91 May 2013 #32
loyalsister May 2013 #52
BainsBane May 2013 #83
madrchsod May 2013 #6
dsc May 2013 #18
leftyohiolib May 2013 #7
Savannahmann May 2013 #8
NaturalHigh May 2013 #11
Nye Bevan May 2013 #13
Ms. Toad May 2013 #19
hunter May 2013 #21
cynatnite May 2013 #25
Iggo May 2013 #22
cynatnite May 2013 #24
stevenleser May 2013 #90
TDale313 May 2013 #28
backwoodsbob May 2013 #29
In_The_Wind May 2013 #34
ScreamingMeemie May 2013 #35
Jenoch May 2013 #54
uppityperson May 2013 #76
GreenStormCloud May 2013 #95
uppityperson May 2013 #100
Sancho May 2013 #38
Crepuscular May 2013 #39
nomorenomore08 May 2013 #42
we can do it May 2013 #44
backwoodsbob May 2013 #47
we can do it May 2013 #57
JVS May 2013 #65
El Fuego May 2013 #81
stevenleser May 2013 #91
Brigid May 2013 #48
backwoodsbob May 2013 #49
Brigid May 2013 #50
etherealtruth May 2013 #51
MichiganVote May 2013 #55
ChazII May 2013 #59
uppityperson May 2013 #77
BainsBane May 2013 #84
we can do it May 2013 #61
uppityperson May 2013 #80
Dash87 May 2013 #62
bravenak May 2013 #66
treestar May 2013 #67
burnodo May 2013 #68
treestar May 2013 #71
Demo_Chris May 2013 #69
gollygee May 2013 #70
Jennicut May 2013 #72
El Fuego May 2013 #73
H2O Man May 2013 #74
HockeyMom May 2013 #78
Bennyboy May 2013 #86
stevenleser May 2013 #88
enki23 May 2013 #93
Atman May 2013 #104
Fla Dem May 2013 #98

Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 05:15 AM

1. Apparently you can't see the difference

This case isn't Jerry Sandusky. This is an 18 year old and a 14 year old from the same peer group in a high school romance. Do you not see the difference?

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #1)

Mon May 27, 2013, 08:27 AM

10. Then where do you draw the line?

If a person who is legally an adult can have sex with someone who has not yet reached the age of consent, when is legal and when is it a crime?

Yes, there is a difference and that is what lesser sentences are for. Kaitlyn should not get the same punishment as Jerry Sandusky, but she did (allegedly) break the law and should receive some punishment for that crime.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #10)

Mon May 27, 2013, 06:28 PM

45. In my state we draw the line at forty-eight months age difference

for 14 yo and sixty months age difference for 16 yo.

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Response to pokerfan (Reply #45)

Tue May 28, 2013, 03:19 PM

87. Umm...that seems backward.

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Response to tosh (Reply #87)

Tue May 28, 2013, 03:28 PM

89. How so?

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Response to pokerfan (Reply #89)

Tue May 28, 2013, 04:49 PM

94. Yes, seemed backward to me as well.

Until I thought it through.

A 14 year old could have relations with someone up to age 18.

A 16 year old can have relations with someone up to age 21.

The way I initially read it was inverse to the intent.



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Response to Fla Dem (Reply #94)

Tue May 28, 2013, 05:02 PM

97. Ah, yes...that makes sense to me now.

Thanks for explaining it to me so gently. You could have just called me a dumb something-or-other.

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Response to tosh (Reply #97)

Tue May 28, 2013, 05:10 PM

99. No, I wasn't the one who posted it. I read it the same as you.

It wasn't until I wrote it out that it made sense to me. I chalk it up to aging brain cells.

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Response to pokerfan (Reply #45)

Tue May 28, 2013, 10:24 PM

101. This sounds like good common sense

and seems fair.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #10)

Mon May 27, 2013, 09:30 PM

56. Each state decides.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #1)

Mon May 27, 2013, 06:17 PM

43. this is a great example of "rape culture"

 

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #1)

Mon May 27, 2013, 08:59 PM

53. He's just upset because he didn't get any in high school. n/t

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #1)

Tue May 28, 2013, 01:52 PM

75. I like the new "peer group" meme folks have been floating




When I was a senior in High School I sure as hell didn't have any 14 year olds or freshmen in my "peer group" LOL

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #75)

Tue May 28, 2013, 02:32 PM

82. I did

I was in a organized group of kids ranging from 12 to 18. We partied together, camped together, traveled together, and worked together. 14 to 18 would have been at the extreme edge of some of what went on, but not all that far.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #82)

Tue May 28, 2013, 02:36 PM

85. You were in a cult?

LOL

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #85)

Tue May 28, 2013, 04:57 PM

96. Ha!

No, but some might have seen it that way. It was a bit of a cross between scouting and a church youth group, without the religion. Kinda hard to explain, but basically was a place that upper middle class liberals sent their kids to learn about the environment and science. We had great, very liberal, adult leaders that had a special gift for working with folks in that age range. It worked quite well actually, with the older kids tending to keep the younger ones out of trouble.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #82)


Response to JimDandy (Reply #102)

Wed May 29, 2013, 09:58 AM

103. Current friends

I know a couple, in their 40's now, that "dated" when she was 14 and he was 18. Parents were aghast of course and all manner of trouble ensued. He went off to college, she went to her senior prom with someone else. He graduates college, she's now in college as a junior, when they meet again over a Christmas break. Long story short, they start dating again and ultimately get married. 4 kids later and all is just fine. Not saying it is common, but I know I always had an affinity, my whole life for friendships and dating "older" people. My spouse on the other hand generally socializes much better with much younger people.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #103)


Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 05:17 AM

2. so should a 15 year old be charged for having sex with a 14 year old.

The discussion is about teenagers within the same peer group having sex with each other

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Response to cali (Reply #2)

Mon May 27, 2013, 11:12 AM

12. this discussion is about an 18y.o. having sex with a 14 y.o.

 

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #12)

Mon May 27, 2013, 01:38 PM

23. no it's not. duh. unless you think anyone is a teacher at 18

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Response to cali (Reply #23)

Mon May 27, 2013, 03:40 PM

37. well idk to what you are refering cause the 18 year old this refer's to is an 18 yo student

 

not a teacher- and that's what has stirred all this up

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #37)

Tue May 28, 2013, 04:35 PM

92. The problem is with the OP not you or Cali. OP made this about 50 year old men having sex with boys

and threw in the straw man about everyone thinking it is "OK" for an 18 year old to have sex with a 14 year old.

No one said that and comparing Sandusky having sex with teen and preteen boys with this case is ridiculous.

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Response to cali (Reply #2)

Mon May 27, 2013, 06:29 PM

46. I agree with you.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 05:22 AM

3. you knoew why...

But we can't discuss it openly.

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Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #3)

Mon May 27, 2013, 09:43 PM

58. why can't you discuss it openly?

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Response to fishwax (Reply #58)

Tue May 28, 2013, 02:53 AM

64. might offend the delicate flowers

if it were a boy girl relationship we would have all these threads discussing age n sex and whatnot . the boy would have been tarred and feathered by now

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Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #64)

Tue May 28, 2013, 01:58 PM

79. How often are high-school lovers tarred and feathered?

How often are high-school lovers tarred and feathered? Most of the time, I simply see a pat on the back for the fella.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 05:24 AM

4. South Carolina. Figures.

And you misspelled "consistent."

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Response to blkmusclmachine (Reply #4)

Mon May 27, 2013, 12:54 PM

16. Oh I'm sorry...the SC person doesn't approve of rape...figures

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #16)

Mon May 27, 2013, 10:02 PM

60. SC has one of the lowest ages of consent in the US, and the law in SC would be better for Kate in FL

SECTION 16-3-655. Criminal sexual conduct with a minor; aggravating and mitigating circumstances; penalties; repeat offenders. (B) A person is guilty of criminal sexual conduct with a minor in the second degree if:...(2) the actor engages in sexual battery with a victim who is at least fourteen years of age but who is less than sixteen years of age and the actor is in a position of familial, custodial, or official authority to coerce the victim to submit or is older than the victim. However, a person may not be convicted of a violation of the provisions of this item if he is eighteen years of age or less when he engages in illicit but consensual sexual conduct with another person who is at least fourteen years of age.

So the laws you made in your State say the kid in FL goes free. Funny how that is, considering your posturing here.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #60)

Mon May 27, 2013, 11:54 PM

63. I wrote that law?...really?

wow.Color me silly...I wasn't aware I wrote that law

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Response to blkmusclmachine (Reply #4)

Mon May 27, 2013, 03:20 PM

33. Texas...figures

home of the Bush's

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 05:33 AM

5. Why don't we stop

obsessing about what people do with their genitals unless someone is being harmed?

It's not a black or white issue with an obvious cut-off.

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Response to RudynJack (Reply #5)

Mon May 27, 2013, 08:03 AM

9. there is a cut off it varies with each state- i think it's called age of consent -

 

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Response to RudynJack (Reply #5)

Mon May 27, 2013, 11:20 AM

14. So what Roman Polanski did is just fine as far as you are concerned? (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #14)

Mon May 27, 2013, 12:50 PM

15. I said no such thing

I'm just sick of the neverending hair-splitting here over who's allowed to fuck whom. It's a silly argument that doesn't have one right answer.

And to the poster above you, yes age-of-consent laws are arbitrary and silly. My grandmother married a man in his late 20s when she was 14. She adored him until the day she died.

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Response to RudynJack (Reply #15)

Mon May 27, 2013, 12:54 PM

17. There are certainly quite a few adults who believe that "age of consent" laws are unnecessary

and that children should be allowed to make up their own minds about this sort of thing, even when their partner is an adult.

I do not subscribe to this point of view.

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Response to RudynJack (Reply #15)

Mon May 27, 2013, 01:18 PM

20. so Roman Polanski drugging a young girl

I believe 13 or 14 at the time and having anal sex with her is ok in your book?

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #20)

Mon May 27, 2013, 03:14 PM

30. Drugging somebody falls into the category of "Actual rape"

As in sex where one of the parties did not agree to have sex. As opposed to sex where both parties were interested in having sex, knew that they were going to have sex, and neither party used force/drugs to coerce the other party.

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Response to dairydog91 (Reply #30)

Mon May 27, 2013, 03:16 PM

31. so you dont have a problem with

adults having sex with children...got it

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #31)

Mon May 27, 2013, 03:28 PM

36. Most "children" aren't interested in consenting to sex. Hence "rape".

The American spin on this, fitting America's deep historical discomfort with sex, is to declare that even youths in their late teens are incapable of consenting to sex, and hence anyone who has sex with them is "raping" them. Of course, the realities of teen horniness and high school sex made the above policy so obviously stupid that even American legislators felt motivated to respond, hence "Romeo & Juliet" statutes, which seem to declare that a 15 year old understands the consequences of sex with a 17 year old, but doesn't understand the meaning of sex with an 18 year old.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #20)

Mon May 27, 2013, 05:37 PM

40. Why are you insisting

I said anything of the sort?

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Response to RudynJack (Reply #5)

Mon May 27, 2013, 01:50 PM

26. exactly - FREE WARREN JEFFS!!!!!!

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Response to RudynJack (Reply #5)

Mon May 27, 2013, 01:50 PM

27. Creepy post.

Good lord.

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Response to ForgoTheConsequence (Reply #27)

Mon May 27, 2013, 05:43 PM

41. What's creepy about it?

Do you know the one true answer to this question? I said simply that there isn't ONE clear answer.

And for the record, I'm in a very long-time monogamous relationship with a 48 year old. Nothing creepy about it.

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Response to RudynJack (Reply #5)

Mon May 27, 2013, 03:19 PM

32. You mean only punish people for forcing somebody else to have sex? Blasphemy!

You know damn well that the better solution is to lock millions of horny adolescents into confined structures for months on end, become appalled when some of them begin to screw, and then apply a Byzantine statutory framework to slap massive legal consequences onto the occasional senior who pisses of his/her girlfriend's/boyfriend's parents.

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Response to RudynJack (Reply #5)

Mon May 27, 2013, 08:59 PM

52. If it's not black and white, it's he\she said he\she said

The same "peer group" and other vague notions would be used in an attempt to defend even the most egregious cases of rape.
One of my good friends was sexually abused from the time she was 7 until she was 13 when they moved. As is very common, she became promiscuous in her adolescence. She became pregnant at 15 and the rest is a very ugly history. This is not a unique story. It is only one scenario that illustrates why the black & white line is necessary.
If the parties see gray area and work out a plea, that's their business. But other innocents who are victimized should not be sacrificed to ensure that poor misguided individuals who disregard laws don't get in trouble.

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Response to RudynJack (Reply #5)

Tue May 28, 2013, 02:34 PM

83. There is harm in statutory rape

The point of such laws is to keep children and young teens from being violated by adults.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 05:41 AM

6. yup...18 yr old is an adult

a 14 year old isn`t. do`t really matter who or what, the law is on the books for a very good reason.

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #6)

Mon May 27, 2013, 12:55 PM

18. not when it comes to drinking he isn't

nor is he when it comes to search and seizure law within the school. In point of fact within the school he doesn't gain any rights at all from turning 18 except the fact he can drop out without parental consent but the fact is in many states he would have gained that right upon reaching 16.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 07:58 AM

7. if this was an 18 yo man with and 14 girl we wouldnt be having this conversation

 

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #7)

Mon May 27, 2013, 08:00 AM

8. Or a 18 Year old Catholic?

If the 18 year old was a Catholic Church acolyte then the screams from this board would be to give him life in the electric chair.

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #7)

Mon May 27, 2013, 10:11 AM

11. Very true.

The outrage would be off the meter.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 11:19 AM

13. Actually, a large majority of DUers say that it's *not* OK.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 12:55 PM

19. None of those are high school romances.

But you already knew that.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 01:22 PM

21. My solution: No eighteen year olds in high school.

No adult high school students, no high school students with drivers licenses or any other "adult" privileges.

All we have to do is set the driving age to eighteen, learners permits to 17 1/2, and kindergarten to first grade.

Problem solved.

Truth is that in many places fifteen year old girls have babies with twenty something dads who stay out of jail because the District Attorney has plenty worse shit to deal with.

I suspect this case has very little to do with the age difference and it's all about the same-sex relationship.

Mathematically homosexual kids have a much smaller pool of potential partners. Even though I know nothing about the exact circumstances of this case, I'm more likely to give these kids the benefit of my doubt than I would any heterosexual teens of the same ages.



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Response to hunter (Reply #21)

Mon May 27, 2013, 01:44 PM

25. I agree...it is about the same-sex relationship. n/t

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 01:23 PM

22. ...and this thread...

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 01:44 PM

24. You are seriously comparing those predators to this?

Seriously?

The discussion has been about two high school age kids. Not about men in their 20's and 30's going after young teen girls...one of which drugged two of them.

No comparison whatsoever.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #24)

Tue May 28, 2013, 04:31 PM

90. The OP seems to love to write posts rife with logical fallacies. Straw man, False Dichotomy, etc.

If you don't know better, it makes arguing really easy if you can accuse people of things they never said and reduce the possible answers to a question.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 02:47 PM

28. I think it's possible...

To feel the relationship was inappropriate and, if they really were 18 and 14, probably illegal due to the the age difference, and still be concerned about the law potentially being inconsistently applied because of the fact the this was a same sex relationship. It's also possible to believe that the younger girl's parents may have been disturbed by that fact, that it may have reacted differently if the older girl was a boy, and yet still were absolutely legally justified in involving law enforcement. Particularly if they'd told Katelyn to stay away and she didn't.

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Response to TDale313 (Reply #28)

Mon May 27, 2013, 02:58 PM

29. really?

you believe an 18 year old boy having sex with a 14 year old girl wouldn't be arrested?Really?

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 03:22 PM

34. Nope!

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 03:25 PM

35. If they are in the same peer group, attend the same classes, and play on the same teams...

it sure as hell shouldn't be a felony charge. But feel free to go ahead and make it into something that it isn't... by all means.

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #35)

Mon May 27, 2013, 09:11 PM

54. Attend the same classes?

Where did you get that?

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #35)

Tue May 28, 2013, 01:56 PM

76. What "same classes" do 14 and 18 yr olds attend?

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #76)

Tue May 28, 2013, 04:55 PM

95. Depends upon the school.

My high school had about 120 kids for all four grades. There were some classes that were shared by all grades who took the class. I remember being in the band with all four grades, and even some eigth graders in the band too. We had about 25 kids in the band.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #95)

Tue May 28, 2013, 07:51 PM

100. True, band would have varied ages. Language 1 might also. Thanks for answering and being polite.

I kept coming up with the core classes, science, english, math, soc studies, pe.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 03:42 PM

38. I doubt I'd start petitions...

but I grew up in SC. I taught middle school there in the 70's.

1.) Kids in middle school had sex (even in the 70's!). Not all of them, but some of them. It was not unheard of to have a pregnancy. My wife had a piano student who was 14 who got pregnant (via a 16 year old boyfriend). She was sweet and mature and said they only had sex once. He said it was his first time too. I believed them at the time, and the sets of parents never considered criminal charges.

2.) When my mother-in-law died, we found her birth certificate and marriage license. She was married at 15 and had her first child at 16. She was a church organist for 50 years, never drank a drop of alcohol, and was as conservative as you could get. She married the choir director!

In other words, it's not a good idea for teenagers to have sex (or other things they're too young to do), but it's crazy to think that it doesn't happen. When it does, each situation is different. Times and cultures change! For example, the middle school I taught in used to regularly paddle kids. They don't do that now. We didn't think about it then.

There's a difference in maturity, circumstances, and opportunity for each person. I think it is unlikely for sex at a young age to be ok, but for the generation before me, it was ok to get married at a young age with the blessing of parents and everyone involved. I wasn't there, so I can't really second guess all those folks.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 05:07 PM

39. Jerry Lee Lewis

married his 13 year old cousin when he was 22 and he had already been previously married twice, including his first marriage when he was 14 and he married a 17 year old.

So apparently in some cases, sex with a 14 year old is Ok.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 05:45 PM

42. I don't think it's "ok." I just don't think high school seniors should be lifetime sex offenders

for having relationships with freshmen.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 06:20 PM

44. If this was an opposite sex couple doing the SAME THING this would not be an issue.

I doubt there was much more than kissing, dry humping and maybe a finger, (or OMG a tongue) which I am pretty sure happens with no outrage in opposite sex couples in school together. On the other hand most parents would be happy that's all their girls did with their boyfriends.

But you seem to be an expert on girl and girl sex, did you have a sex change or do you base your assumptions on porn?

Older kids were with younger kids frequently at my high school. It was never a big issue until the sex-is-bad crowd got out of control. We had sex-education that was actually informative. Kids are going to have sex- period.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #44)

Mon May 27, 2013, 08:06 PM

47. question

would you let your 14 year old daughter have sex with an 18 year old?Would you have a problem with an 18 year old sneaking your daughter out in the middle of the night to have sex?

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #47)

Mon May 27, 2013, 09:42 PM

57. Did you even read my response?

Sneaking out is one thing.

Having sex another.

Normal kids experiment. Some are more mature than others. If my 14 year about to turn 15 old daughter had a serious relationship with a 17 old girl who then turned 18 would I freak out? No. I'd be happy she wasn't dating someone like you.

You have NO IDEA what a homosexual goes through in high school, the more you write the more evident it becomes.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #44)

Tue May 28, 2013, 03:05 AM

65. Pissed off parents plus the law would make an issue out of it.

It's very hard for the justice system to ignore it if the parents press the issue.

Edited to add: some parents turn a blind eye, especially if they think the relationship is healthy and the ages are very close to being legal. I don't know many parents who would turn a blind eye to their 14 year old daughter dating an 18 year old guy.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #44)

Tue May 28, 2013, 02:05 PM

81. Opposite sex cases like this get prosecuted all the time, there's just no publicity.

In Florida anyway. What usually happens is the parents of the younger kid decide to use (i.e. abuse) the law to break the couple up by reporting the older kid as soon as they turn 18.

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Response to El Fuego (Reply #81)

Tue May 28, 2013, 04:33 PM

91. A very small percentage of times this happens ends up in prosecution. Most parents do not prosecute.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 08:10 PM

48. How about I ask my brother?

He has a daughter who just turned fifteen.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #48)

Mon May 27, 2013, 08:16 PM

49. then you should be good

with her having sex with adults.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #49)

Mon May 27, 2013, 08:44 PM

50. ???

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 08:59 PM

51. As a member of DU

I sure as hell am NOT OK with adults having sex with underage kids. NOT ever. I don't give a shit about the gender of the adult (it IS irrelevant), I don't give a shit about the sexual orientation of the adult predator (it IS irrelevant).

I do NOT care that someone's relative was married" at 14 (or 13 ... or whatever) . it does not make it right!

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #51)

Mon May 27, 2013, 09:25 PM

55. +1

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #51)

Mon May 27, 2013, 09:50 PM

59. Agree 100% n/t

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #51)

Tue May 28, 2013, 01:57 PM

77. +++++++++++++++++++++++

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #51)

Tue May 28, 2013, 02:35 PM

84. +1

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 10:09 PM

61. This is a digusting, homophobic post.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #61)

Tue May 28, 2013, 01:59 PM

80. How is the op " disgusting, homophobic"?

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Mon May 27, 2013, 10:26 PM

62. Arguing about this is totally pointless, imo.

I'm not even sure what was the truth in that story, so I mostly avoided having an opinion in it.

This is an issue that can be argued here until people are red-faced without any real result. The reason is that, A, there are multiple factors that might come into play here, and B, we still know very little about this story (and as a result, people just fill in the blanks, usually to validate their own opinions).

I can't defend either side in this battle in good faith. I guess it's because I'm not willing to defend breaking the law in this matter, but on the other hand, I don't think she is a pedophile.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Tue May 28, 2013, 06:23 AM

66. No it's not okay.

14 year olds are not able to have consensual sex by law. I had a male friend who was a second year senior who had sex with a 9 th grader. Her parents called the cops and he is on the sex offender registry right now. For life. He knew what he was doing was illegal and did it anyway. She was young and easy to manipulate.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Tue May 28, 2013, 06:34 AM

67. It should be illegal in

All cases then. Among 14 year olds it should be illegal too. Make it one age for all. Maybe 18. Adults only.

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Response to treestar (Reply #67)

Tue May 28, 2013, 06:38 AM

68. no sex until you're 18?

 

That's going to put a huge chunk of the nation's teenagers in jail and they'll all have sex offender status.

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Response to burnodo (Reply #68)

Tue May 28, 2013, 11:51 AM

71. As it is now maybe

But it would solve a lot of problems. And then it is generally considered to be an adult activity, so in a way, why not? Or make it 16, since they can drive then.

Then have no age difference issues too. One size fits all. If you're 16 and want to have sex with a 30 year old, then go for it.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Tue May 28, 2013, 07:58 AM

69. So long as no one was forced I find it hard to care...

 

I'll certainly get flamed for that, but whatever. I am uncomfortable with morality legislation in the best of cases, and when the laws are as muddled and subjective as these I find it virtually impossible.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Tue May 28, 2013, 08:11 AM

70. It certainly isn't OK for people in their 30s to have sex with 14-year-olds

I do see the argument that if they were both in high school that they were peers, though. Maybe the Romeo/Juliet laws should allow for a 4-year age difference so kids going to the same school are not included in statutory rape laws if they start dating? I'm not sure. I am in favor of statutory rape laws, but when both kids are high school students, it doesn't seem as clear to me as when one person is 35 and the other is 14.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Tue May 28, 2013, 12:04 PM

72. Maybe kids in high school should be allowed to date each other, even freshman and seniors.

I dated a senior in high school as a freshman. The kids in my grade were extremely immature. The laws to protect the 14 year old against older sexual predators seem silly when slapped on an 18 year old senior that was in the same peer group. The consent laws are so arbitrary.

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #72)

Tue May 28, 2013, 01:47 PM

73. That would be the common sense solution.

The culture of the school itself serves to establish that all students are peers. If the law is going to be enforced against high school students having relationships, the school should be responsible for segregating students under 16 from the older students.

Another thing is that it's really difficult to tell the ages of high school kids. You can have 14 year olds that look like they're 25, and 18 year olds who still look like they're 14. How are THEY supposed to know who's jailbait?

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Tue May 28, 2013, 01:51 PM

74. o deer

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Tue May 28, 2013, 01:58 PM

78. Major difference between a TEACHER

who is not only over the age of 21, but also an AUTHORITY FIGURE. Is a teenage upperclassmate an authority figure? Yes, I also agree about a 17 and 18 year old. Legal one day, but not the next? How about an age difference of say 6 WEEKS? Throw them in jail?

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Tue May 28, 2013, 02:54 PM

86. Okay, I am going to say it ( the huge ELEPHANT in the room)

 

To the people that are protesting, petitioning and defending the 18 year old (and to the 18 year old herself) in this case,

It seems almost as if gay sex is somehow better than heterosexual sex. Not as bad, dirty, nasty or what have you as it would with hetero couples, man and man, even....Even the above examples of Woman on minor male instances. To me it seems, the fact that it is gay sex (between two women...) somehow elevates it from an illegal act to one worthy of cause celebre.

riendsI know alla bout this, I had pretty much the exact thing with my usually younger girlfriends, and the threat broke us up. The parents did not like me and they used the law to keep me away from their daughter (18-16).

So it happens and happens to most of us. if you are a male in my age, "jailbait" was a descriptor. The problem is the parents of the kid that is younger. if they don't like it, then no matter if you are gay, striped, man, woman and any combination thereof, they can fuck your life over.

the law is the law, for everyone. (I think the law sucks personally but there is no chance of that ever changing)

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Tue May 28, 2013, 03:26 PM

88. This OP violates the second commandment of this previous OP, namely, No Straw Man Posts

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2903445

No one said "Sex with 14 year olds is ok now"

Creating straw men immediately discredits you with those who know what the logical fallacies are.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Tue May 28, 2013, 04:39 PM

93. There is so much stupid bullshit flying around about this.

I can only imagine a large portion of it must be deliberate, for some fucked up reason or other.

Here are some things that aren't hard to understand:

1. "The law is the law" is fucking stupid. "The law is the law" has defended every fucked-up law that ever existed in this (or any other) society, and ever will. It's the defense of cowards afraid to argue for their moral cowardice.

2. It's not hard to see a difference between a three or four year age gap and much larger age gaps. That's made worse when we treat them, in many other day-to-day ways, as actual peers. Yeah, we probably have to write laws to include arbitrary age cutoffs, for lack of a better way to do it. But that doesn't mean we can't come up with a way to accommodate cases like this one. Like every other high-school romance where one or more parties happen to fall just over one of these ultimately-arbitrary lines of demarcation. The law exists to protect naive youth from adults. It pains me to think one needs to fucking say that here, of all places. Is eighteen older than fourteen, and more mature? Yes. Is it in any serious way the same thing as the difference between fourteen and twenty-five, or thirty? Absolutely fucking not. And it doesn't take a genius to notice. It takes a particularly ridiculous sort of liar to pretend not to.

3. We're smart enough to write our laws to accommodate problems with these boundary conditions. We're fully able to do that. And if we fail in that, then the legal system is smart, and flexible enough to tailor its enforcement with that in mind. And if it isn't, we've failed on *two* fronts. We should be goddamned ashamed of that.

4. We don't have to approve of the clandestine shit in the relationship to recognize any of the above. I wouldn't like a fourteen-year-old child of mine sneaking off to have sex with another fourteen-year-old either, for one obvious example. That doesn't mean I need age-based legal protections to overcome that. If my child is actually coerced, that's a legal problem. If there is a significant age gap that doesn't exist *solely* due to the placement of boundary conditions, that's a legal problem.

This case should not be a legal problem. That's not because "sex with fourteen-year-olds" is okay for adults. It's because I'm not deliberately stupid enough to pretend that our arbitrary boundaries for adulthood need to be reified this goddamned stupid extent. Yes, there will ultimately be a boundary condition for anything we do. Should it be three years age difference? Four? There will be grey areas no matter what. But when people act in good faith, we can do our best to work those out. This bullshit is not being pushed ahead in good faith. There certainly appears to be an anti-gay element to this story. Maybe there isn't, but probably there is. Just one more reason to raise an eyebrow. This girl's family is not acting in good faith.

And neither are the agenda-pushers (MRA and otherwise). But that's no surprise. Acting in good faith is their goddamned kryptonite.

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Response to enki23 (Reply #93)

Wed May 29, 2013, 10:03 AM

104. The speed limit is 65...but we're generally allowed to go 70 or 75.

But do 85 and you're getting busted.

This is a prime example of a law where common sense and flexibility come into play. I still don't understand how one little check-box on the calendar suddenly makes one of two young lovers a "criminal" or a sexual predator.

Good post.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Tue May 28, 2013, 05:05 PM

98. This was a high school infatuation.

Do I think any kids should be having sex at 14, 15, 16, 17, hell no. But, we all know it happens. Us from the 60's all knew where the "make-out" spots were. We knew the girls the guys talked about getting to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd base. We went to parties in high school where couples would disappear and show up later after a roll in the grass. We all knew girls who got pregnant and disappeared for months.

I don't remember then or even now anyone, boys or girls getting arrested for sexual behavior.

I understand laws have been tighten because of the use of rape drug use, and I'm glad for it. No girl should be forced to have sexual relations with anyone.

When they start arresting every football, basketball, baseball player or other campus stud for dating a 14 year old, then I'd say ok, to this one. The parents should have gotten a restraining order against the girl and let it go. All they've done now is have the national spotlight shine on their daughter, and probably alienated her from them forever.

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