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Thu May 16, 2013, 11:09 AM

Holder needs to go! Holder will be gone by end of the week!

This is huge they are spying on the press! You were screaming during the Bush years why not now!




Where did all those posters go? LOL

As somebody who actually deals with CALEA I have found the past week to be very entertaining

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Reply Holder needs to go! Holder will be gone by end of the week! (Original post)
snooper2 May 2013 OP
shraby May 2013 #1
sinkingfeeling May 2013 #2
Taverner May 2013 #5
Little Star May 2013 #3
upaloopa May 2013 #4
Taverner May 2013 #6
Ikonoklast May 2013 #10
think May 2013 #14
BlueCaliDem May 2013 #9
Whisp May 2013 #19
wercal May 2013 #11
randome May 2013 #12
wercal May 2013 #15
randome May 2013 #20
wercal May 2013 #23
randome May 2013 #24
wercal May 2013 #29
randome May 2013 #7
Recursion May 2013 #8
think May 2013 #13
CJCRANE May 2013 #16
FSogol May 2013 #17
MjolnirTime May 2013 #22
mfcorey1 May 2013 #18
Gothmog May 2013 #21
Puzzledtraveller May 2013 #25
randome May 2013 #26
Zen Democrat May 2013 #27
snooper2 May 2013 #28

Response to snooper2 (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:14 AM

1. One answer for them. Holder has recused himself from the AP investigation that the republicans

called for. All the hair on fire posters have no come-back for the truth.

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Response to snooper2 (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:19 AM

2. If there was a secretly issued subpoena, then there's no 'scandal' at all.

Patriot Act was passed under GWB to give out secret subpoenas.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #2)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:20 AM

5. Exactly. As damning and infuriating as this is, it is 100% legal

 

People seem to have forgotten we surrendered our constitution for 'freedom' after 9/11

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Response to snooper2 (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:19 AM

3. Did you read msanthrope's OP about this?....

It's well worth the read.
Link Here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022848186

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Response to snooper2 (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:19 AM

4. Nothing illegal done by Holder. He's the only

one putting the repukes in their place so I can see why they would want him gone.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #4)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:20 AM

6. I still want him fired and the Patriot act declared unconstitutional

 

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Response to Taverner (Reply #6)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:52 AM

10. Just as soon as the Republicans realize that the Patriot Act can be used to indict them

for their illegal activities under that Act, Roberts will be ordered to take it up and have it declared unconstitutional inside of a month.

Republicans can never see the forest they find themselves in, too many trees.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #6)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:14 PM

14. +1

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #4)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:45 AM

9. And Holder is pissing off as lot of powerful people in the financial industry as well!

Contrary to the wailers on this site, AG Holder has been doing a damned good job prosecuting fraud and getting convictions in the financial industry wherever he can.

http://www.stopfraud.gov/news-index.html

No wonder Republicans are heated to get rid of him. Their money-masters are panicking.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #9)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:25 PM

19. and the health care industry, millions have been retrieved from provider side cheaters.

these are the real reasons 'Holder must resign or be fired nonsense.

but 'democrats' play along like turkeys looking up in a rainstorm.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #4)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:00 PM

11. I think some here are missing the point

Holder has stated that it was not his decision...and he believes (but is not qute positive) that the assistant AG made the decision.

The Justice Dept requests a subpoena for phone records from one of the biggest media outlets in the world...to investigate what Holder himself characterizes as one of the worst leaks he has ever seen......and the man in charge didn't know about it or make the final decision?

To make matters worse, the subpoena crossed over into a seperation of powers question, when it covered phone lines used by congress. Yet this decision didn't get run by the top guy?

If this is true....Holder is essentially calling for his own resignation, since he is essentially saying he either doesn't have control over his own agency, or he deliberately does not want to know about or be involved with important decisions.

I actually don't think Holder will resign...his deputy will. But in all reality, by staying on, he is doing the administration a disservice, since he will largely be ineffective for at least a year until this blows over.

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Response to wercal (Reply #11)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:03 PM

12. Do you understand the concept of 'recusal'?



Stop looking for heroes. BE one.


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Response to randome (Reply #12)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:20 PM

15. Recusal

Yes. That's why I think the Deputy will resign and not Holder.

But outside of the specific parameters of this one investigation, the leadership at the Justice Department should have clear policies in place, concerning investigating the media, and (especially) any investigation that involves another branch of government. You know, the 'command philosophy' of the head of the agency.

Instead, the dept had no guidance...so when Holder has to recuse himself on a case, just about ANYTHING can happen.

Does he deserve any of the responsibility for this fiasco? And it is a fiasco - the media will see no lines between DOJ and the WH, and (as you may have noticed) they may take a harsher tone with the administration, and give the congressional hearings into other matters more air time.

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Response to wercal (Reply #15)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:26 PM

20. There is a reason why AP has not published the letter they received.

I think this is why: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022848186

There ARE procedures in place. And it appears they were followed.

And there is a reason why Republicans have NOT jumped on the bandwagon as they did Benghazi and the IRS.

Even the media criticism seems to be already dying down.



Stop looking for heroes. BE one.


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Response to randome (Reply #20)

Thu May 16, 2013, 01:49 PM

23. That link doesnt address the fundamental problem

Holder is supposed to be in charge....even if he is recused from this one case, his deputy should have prior guidance on investigating the media and congress.

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Response to wercal (Reply #23)

Thu May 16, 2013, 02:00 PM

24. And so far as we know, the rules were followed.

To automatically assume the DOJ is wrong simply because the AP is being investigated is short-sighted. Maybe the DOJ is wrong in this instance. But so far, it does not play that way.

If AP wants more public reaction on their side, they need to publish the letter they received from the DOJ. Or a redacted version. Or explain why they cannot publish it.

They are only giving us as much information as they think will paint them in an 'aggrieved' light.



Stop looking for heroes. BE one.


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Response to randome (Reply #24)

Thu May 16, 2013, 03:55 PM

29. I'm still not getting my point across

I don't think anyone is questioning the legality of the investigation.

But a big leap was taken - the DOJ (executive branch) did an investigation, in which the blanket covered members of congress. This type of leap in using the power of one branch over another is usually mulled over by a team of lawyers, who issue opinion papers and research precedent. None of that happened here. Holder gave no guidance, recused himself, and closed his eyes and ears.

You implied that I was being 'short sighted'. Imagine for a moment the worst politician you have ever seen...the most evil and crooked politician possible. One day, he could be president. Do you want him to gather lists of reporter's phone calls? You see, I am the one looking long term in this. It is those who reflexively defend this, because they are comfortable with the current administration, who are being short sighted.

Now I'm not sure what the fascination is with the letter to the AP....the letter is not the main event, and any fixation on it is a red herring. What incriminating information could it possibly have? An accusation that the AP published classified information? We already know that. Most likely, even a redacted letter could give a 'whiff' as to who the AP's suspected sources are...and they want no part of disclosing their sources, whatsoever....and that is why they don't publish it.

Today's headlines are IRS related, a new interim commissioner, etc. But give it time, and Holder will be back in the news (I don't think the media will develop amnesia), so it won't die down. Probably by next week, the deputy ag will step down, and then the 'cooling down/this is dragging on forever' period will begin.

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Response to snooper2 (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:20 AM

7. What has been most entertaining to me...

...is the emotional convolutions some have gone to in order to justify the AP not printing the letter they received.

They claim that the press should have unfettered access to publish what they want but then turn around and say, "Well, maybe some rule prevents them from publishing that letter."

The AP could certainly give us a redacted version or better context of that letter. Is it associated with a grand jury, as many seem to think, including the EFF?

It has been entertaining.



Stop looking for heroes. BE one.


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Response to snooper2 (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:21 AM

8. The scandal here is that this seems to have been entirely legal

I dislike that law, but it's the AG's job to do everything he legally can to make a case.

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Response to snooper2 (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:12 PM

13. Eric Holder AND The Patriot Act both need to be things of the past....

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Response to snooper2 (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:22 PM

16. At first glance I thought this OP was a parody!

How many of these threads are there going to be...

Those posters you mention are still here. We've had dozens of threads agreeing with your point of view.

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Response to snooper2 (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:22 PM

17. They're awaiting further orders. You Better Believe It!

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Response to FSogol (Reply #17)

Thu May 16, 2013, 01:01 PM

22. they're all gathered around the old elm frothing at the mouth

 

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Response to snooper2 (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:23 PM

18. Holder needs to stay right where he is. There were legitimate times when he needed to resign but

this is not one of them. It would only play into the schemes of the right wingers.

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Response to snooper2 (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:47 PM

21. AG Holder has done some great work on voting rights

I live in Texas. The DOJ under Holder kept the GOP from putting into effect a horrible voter suppression/voter id law that would have disenfranchised hundreds of thousands voters in Texas. The DOJ under Holder also litigated the Texas redistricting and got the DC Court to agree that the Texas GOP engaged in intentional discrimination. The DOJ now has a real voting rights section. These are important accomplishments.

I am glad that AG Holder has been doing a good job.

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Response to snooper2 (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 02:04 PM

25. The Holdover

A comedy about President Obama and his pal Eric Holder on a booze filled weekend in Las Vegas. President Obama wakes up tied to bed posts, hungover and unable to recall the events that lead him there. His geeky friend Jay Carney lies in a pool of his own vomit and Eric is nowhere to be found....

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #25)

Thu May 16, 2013, 02:08 PM

26. Okay, that made me laugh!

But you forgot about the snarling Sarah Palin in the bathroom!



Stop looking for heroes. BE one.


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Response to snooper2 (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 02:17 PM

27. Please get help for your condition. Holder is not going anywhere!

And I will forever love him for standing up to the GOP attempts to deny voting rights last year. He was the last hope and he came through. As for the AP, if they burned a double-agent inside Al-Qaeda they deserve to be found out. Nobody was listening to phone calls. These weren't wiretaps. They were phone records. Because somebody inside the govt. fed classified information to the AP and the AP disclosed at a dangerous time.

Get over the Holder hate. He's not going away.

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #27)

Thu May 16, 2013, 02:18 PM

28. A red 32 Ford just went by you at like 112 mph

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