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Tue Feb 7, 2012, 06:01 PM

A Trans-Vaginal Ultrasound is NOT a 'jelly on the belly' sonogram.


HB15: A Trans-Vaginal Ultrasound Wand In Every Woman! (Mar 03, 2011)

LOOK - See diagram here: http://www.burntorangereport.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=11098

EVERY WOMAN IN THE USA SHOULD BE OUTRAGED and WE SHOULD BE IN THE STREETS PROTESTING THIS !!!


Related article:
Feb 6, 2012
Judge lifts ban on Texas’ abortion sonogram law

AUSTIN — A federal judge lifted the ban on the state’s new sonogram law Monday but warned in unusually harsh language that he believes that the abortion statute eventually will be seen as trampling on the rights of doctors to speak freely to their patients.

The state is still drawing up forms and rules on the law, but many doctors and clinics have anticipated the ruling and already have begun complying with it.

Doctors must perform an ultrasound and present the fetal image to a patient prior to an abortion. While the woman might avert her eyes or refuse to view the sonogram, the doctor still must describe all limb and organ development. Unless she lives a far distance, the patient then must wait 24 hours before she can receive an abortion.

The law provides that doctors can lose their medical license and face criminal charges for failing to carry out provisions of the law.

U.S. District Judge Sam Sparks initially held that the law — the furthest-reaching to be upheld by a court — unconstitutionally compelled doctors to “parrot” statements ordered by the state, even if they conflicted with the physicians’ medical judgment.

SNIP
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20120206-judge-lifts-ban-on-texas-abortion-sonogram-law.ece



52 replies, 7537 views

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Arrow 52 replies Author Time Post
Reply A Trans-Vaginal Ultrasound is NOT a 'jelly on the belly' sonogram. (Original post)
Tx4obama Feb 2012 OP
Galraedia Feb 2012 #1
Wait Wut Feb 2012 #2
dembotoz Feb 2012 #3
Ohio Joe Feb 2012 #4
Old and In the Way Feb 2012 #5
Lunacee2012 Feb 2012 #33
Old and In the Way Feb 2012 #34
Lunacee2012 Feb 2012 #36
YellowRubberDuckie Feb 2012 #6
XanaDUer Feb 2012 #7
LadyHawkAZ Feb 2012 #19
Withywindle Feb 2012 #23
YellowRubberDuckie Feb 2012 #24
Ecumenist Feb 2012 #48
roguevalley Feb 2012 #25
Dorian Gray Feb 2012 #37
ThatsMyBarack Feb 2012 #8
REP Feb 2012 #9
emmadoggy Feb 2012 #16
laundry_queen Feb 2012 #21
Rhiannon12866 Feb 2012 #28
REP Feb 2012 #29
Rhiannon12866 Feb 2012 #30
REP Feb 2012 #35
Dorian Gray Feb 2012 #38
HockeyMom Feb 2012 #10
joshcryer Feb 2012 #14
jmowreader Feb 2012 #47
HockeyMom Feb 2012 #49
Johonny Feb 2012 #51
mainer Feb 2012 #11
mercuryblues Feb 2012 #12
joshcryer Feb 2012 #15
LiberalFighter Feb 2012 #31
HockeyMom Feb 2012 #52
jsmirman Feb 2012 #13
RainDog Feb 2012 #41
jsmirman Feb 2012 #43
RainDog Feb 2012 #44
jsmirman Feb 2012 #45
RainDog Feb 2012 #46
vankuria Feb 2012 #17
fishwax Feb 2012 #18
Riley18 Feb 2012 #20
Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #22
Nikia Feb 2012 #26
Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #27
vanlassie Feb 2012 #32
seabeyond Feb 2012 #39
RockaFowler Feb 2012 #40
RainDog Feb 2012 #42
truebrit71 Feb 2012 #50

Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 06:06 PM

1. That's f#$ked up.

Then again it's TEXAS, the redneck capital of the world.

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 06:09 PM

2. Each and every one of the people supporting this is sick.

I want to wish something horrible on them, but I can't. Fuck, I hate them all.

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 06:09 PM

3. ouch

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 06:14 PM

4. This is seriously fucked up

"U.S. District Judge Sam Sparks initially held that the law — the furthest-reaching to be upheld by a court — unconstitutionally compelled doctors to “parrot” statements ordered by the state, even if they conflicted with the physicians’ medical judgment."

You have got to be shitting me. Fucking fundies have got to be driven from office they are fucking insane.

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 06:16 PM

5. Solution? Leave Texas.

If you can't elect 21st century politicians, maybe they'll get the message as women start leaving in droves.

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Response to Old and In the Way (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 12:20 AM

33. No all of us can.

There's simply not enough money for every women to do it.

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Response to Lunacee2012 (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 12:49 AM

34. Yes, I understand that.

But if enough women started to exit the State...I think the implications of what unintended consequences that these types of ridiculous bills generate...maybe they'd get the message. Can you imagine a "Leave Texas for a Week" Protest of a few hundred thousand Texas woman would do to raise the issue's visibility?

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Response to Old and In the Way (Reply #34)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 06:33 AM

36. I'd settle for every woman

Last edited Thu Feb 9, 2012, 10:28 AM - Edit history (1)

voting for someone who didn't believe in crap like this.

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 06:17 PM

6. So essentially they have legalized rape by device as long as the woman has an unwanted pregnancy?

Wow. Just wow.

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Response to YellowRubberDuckie (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 06:32 PM

7. Pretty much

Nt

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Response to YellowRubberDuckie (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 09:27 PM

19. That was my thought too n/t

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Response to YellowRubberDuckie (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 8, 2012, 03:29 PM

23. Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what it is.

Rape with an object is still rape.

Especially revolting when you consider how many women seeking abortions got pregnant in the first place BECAUSE of rape, or sexual abuse, or are basically children, etc., and will be traumatized and violated further for no good reason at all except to make them feel worse about themselves and their choices in a bad situation.

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Response to Withywindle (Reply #23)

Wed Feb 8, 2012, 03:33 PM

24. Can they FORCE you to listen/watch?

I'm not very clear on this. This is assault and I promise if someone sticks something inside me without permission, a foot is going to fly.
Duckie

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Response to YellowRubberDuckie (Reply #24)

Thu Feb 16, 2012, 02:40 AM

48. LOL! I'm not in Texas but I would gladly fly down to help you whip some asses if tht is FORCIBLY

done to you.

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Response to YellowRubberDuckie (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 8, 2012, 03:42 PM

25. I had one to find something that turned out to be nothing. It felt

like someone was driving a car in there. It hurt like hell.

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #25)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 08:11 AM

37. I had multiple

trans vaginal ultrasounds throughout my fertility process and high risk pregnancy.

They're not pleasant. I mean, when is sticking a dildo shaped camera particularly comfortable. But it's not painful, either. (I suppose if the ultrasound technician was particularly rough and uncaring, it might be somewhat painful.)

Having said that, I in NO WAY support this texas law. It's unfathomable to me that a law like that could be made. And this makes me so happy that I live in New York City and nowhere near the Bible Belt.

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 06:39 PM

8. Oh, great....

Another excuse to overuse the word VAGINA on teevee and in other media.

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 07:03 PM

9. I've had a bunch of these (ovarian and kidney cysts)

They don't hurt (well, they do if Nabothian cysts are present, but it isn't horrible) but I knew I was scheduled for this procedure each time and why.

The procedure isn't degrading; it's BEING FORCED TO UNDERGO IT that's degrading. It's unnecessary when having an abortion; it's also treating women as though they are morons or worse, which is also pretty degrading.

Texas. It's like a whole nother country. Romania, perhaps (under Ceauscescu).

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Response to REP (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 08:14 PM

16. Totally agree.

I've had them too, during fertility treatment. They are not painful. A little strange and awkward for sure.

But very degrading to make a woman have one for NO MEDICAL REASON. The only reason is to degrade and intimidate her. Disgusting.


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Response to emmadoggy (Reply #16)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 09:48 PM

21. Also agree

I prefer them to the abdominal ones where they make you drink half a gallon of water and not pee for an hour. Um, sorry, my bladder is not that big. Then to add insult to injury, they press down on your belly and complain you aren't full enough.

Either way, forcing a woman to have one is insane. Degrading is right - that is their goal, isn't it? ick.

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Response to REP (Reply #9)

Wed Feb 8, 2012, 09:05 PM

28. I think this is also what I had.

I was in Boston for surgery and expected this was just another ultrasound where I had to drink so much water that I was in agony. But then the (female) technician went there and it was so unexpected that I nearly jumped off the table. I asked her what she was doing and she acted like I was being a nuisance. I'd never had that before and nobody told me that this was something they did and I panicked. It seemed way too personal to me...

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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #28)

Wed Feb 8, 2012, 09:12 PM

29. I'm pretty sure endometrial band has to be measured that way

I've had an endometrial ablation - and I heal freakishly well, so mine gets measured every now and then, along with checking up on all my cysts. I've had so much imaging done for my various bits I think sometimes they're just testing the machines on me!

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Response to REP (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 8, 2012, 10:26 PM

30. I was there for surgery

To remove fibroid tumors, which was done twice, so I've been poked and prodded and my second surgery was the kind with no incision, but a camera (laparoscopy), so I got used to that, too. So this must have been pretty invasive if it shocked me...

Fortunately, my third surgery got rid of the problem for good. I had uterine embolization, in which they inserted tiny beads into the arteries which fed the fibroids, so they went away. You certainly have my sympathies. I don't think you ever really get used to those invasive procedures, so doing them unnecessarily is unforgivable to me...

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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #30)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 12:51 AM

35. My cervical cancer was treated in a teaching hospital, usually with a large audience

I felt as though there wasn't anyone in the city who hadn't seen my lady business. I'm pretty much bullet-proof because of that

An ablation is burning out the endometrium; in my case, it was done with boiling saline (the thermo devices are too large for my anatomy). Yours doesn't sound fun at all, but it does sound less medieval!

I'm now due for some joint replacement/tendon repair on my shoulders and elbows ... much less of a show for all involved

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Response to REP (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 08:12 AM

38. I agree

The procedure not degrading, but being forced to undergo it IS.

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 07:05 PM

10. Ever see a 5 week old embryo?

It doesn't even look human at that point. Kidney bean. Maybe a shrimp. Unless a woman knows this, seeing a very early embryo might have the opposite reaction to what they want.

What if it is a medically necessary abortion, as in an ectopic? Lecture about aborting your baby? Doctor would be sued for malpractice if they didn't tell a woman it would kill her if not terminated.

What about severely malformed fetus? Do they really want to show women THAT too?

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 07:52 PM

14. Yeah, that's very true, but they don't care about embryonic or fetal development.

They want to put women in a very compromising, very personal situation, so that they'll be coerced into changing their mind. The 24 hour waiting period is just more of the same, to coerce the woman to have "second doubts."

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 16, 2012, 01:41 AM

47. Well now, that could get entertaining...

A woman carrying an anencephalic fetus (that means one with no brain, kids) who has to undergo the transvaginal ultrasound then be shown the picture of it and undergo a recital of its stage of development is going to walk out of the hospital with a major case of PTSD, and I would call it grounds for a heavy-duty lawsuit against Rick Perry, the Republican who wrote the bill, the Texas Lege members who voted for it and the anti-abortion group that thought it up.

See, if it weren't for this law the woman would go to the hospital, get the brainless fetus removed before it dies and puts her life in danger, wait a year and try for a healthy child. But with this law in place, the woman might not ever want to try pregnancy again.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #47)

Thu Feb 16, 2012, 09:24 AM

49. Ectopic pregnancy could rupture with a 24 hour waiting period

This is an immediate life or death situation for the woman. In both of these instances the pregnancy is DOOMED. Science cannot take an embryo out of a fallopian tube, or implant a brain.

I guess they don't see, want to, or care about these "life of the mother" situations.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #49)

Thu Feb 16, 2012, 09:46 AM

51. They don't care

You never hear the anti-abortion crowd talk about real life situation which women find themselves in. They never talk about real women that wanted children but had real problems that really happen that require doctors and women to make choices. We are to belief abortion is only due to laziness, rape or evil liberalism. The majority of the public never are taught by our schools, or our media the actual medical things involved in pregnancy.

My general feel is "These people don't care". They hate women and their rights and want all of society to conform to their very narrow and often very odd view of life, religion and social order. All they care about is themselves, why else would they care so little after the birth?

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 07:13 PM

11. So how do we force the equivalent on men? Let's come up with something

I really did like the Dem idea of forcing all men who want Viagra to get a digital exam of the prostate.

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Response to mainer (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 07:27 PM

12. Prostate exams

for viagra.

Virginia state senator Janet Howell tried to add that to a bill like this.

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Response to mainer (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 08:06 PM

15. And what if we like it?



j/k, j/k, I also liked that idea, it was epic.

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Response to mainer (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 8, 2012, 10:42 PM

31. A rectal exam using using this

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Response to mainer (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 16, 2012, 09:47 AM

52. Penile Catheter?

My husband HATES that when he has surgery. That has to be humiliating. Sorry, DU guys, we aren't talking about you.

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 07:46 PM

13. This is "consent" under duress to be assaulted

which is no consent at all.

This should not survive Constitutional challenge.

If there is any right, whatsoever, to an abortion, a woman who has been raped is being forced by this law, under duress, to "consent" to an unwanted vaginal insertion. At worst, even this Court should find this to be an overbroad law and, therefore, a statute that is unconstitutional.

It's unfathomable that these people could possibly hate women this much.

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Response to jsmirman (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 15, 2012, 10:11 PM

41. these folks have reached the point of extremist

women must be examined - next I expect we'll have hymen inspections before marriage.

Big scarlet letter "A" to wear around...

hmmm. this all sounds creepily familiar.

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Response to RainDog (Reply #41)

Wed Feb 15, 2012, 10:15 PM

43. I know we have to confront reality as we find it

but doesn't something like this just blow your mind?

I can't fathom the mind that would think this is ok. I just don't get it. How do they not know how insane and wrong this is? How??!!

I honestly have to remind myself that I am reading about something real that is actually happening when I read about things like this.

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Response to jsmirman (Reply #43)

Wed Feb 15, 2012, 10:25 PM

44. true

it's incredible that they have introduced so many legislative initiatives related to WOMEN's reproductive organs.

Makes me think of Satrapi's experience in Persepolis.

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Response to RainDog (Reply #44)

Wed Feb 15, 2012, 10:39 PM

45. When I read the quotation

my first thought was that I was going to have to explain that I'm a dude - but then I realized that her point was that I am a human.

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Response to jsmirman (Reply #45)

Wed Feb 15, 2012, 10:43 PM

46. :)

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 08:30 PM

17. I'm curious

I would imagine this is a costly procedure so who is responsible to pay for it? If it's required by law does this mean insurance will cover the entire cost or what if she's on Medicaid? If the woman has no insurance does she have to come up with the funds for a procedure that has no medical basis other than to make her feel badly about a difficult decision she has to make? If it's mandated by the state perhaps the gov't pays? In that case that might not go over to well with the taxpayers.

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 08:43 PM

18. omg -- what a revolting law

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 09:43 PM

20. What a degrading, disgusting, and immoral law.

We are way past the time of putting up with this crazy bullshit.

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Wed Feb 8, 2012, 02:24 PM

22. It's a terminology thing

 

http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=genus

Saying "ultrasound" commonly refers to the non-Trans-Vaginal sonogram.

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Response to Kellerfeller (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 8, 2012, 03:52 PM

26. If a woman isn't very far along, she probably wouldn't be able to see much on a regular ultrasound

If a woman is going to have an abortion, an early one means less development of the embryo/fetus towards a person and less medical risk towards the woman. She shouldn't have to wait 10 weeks if a trans vaginal sonogram would be traumatic or even uncomfortable for her.

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Response to Nikia (Reply #26)

Wed Feb 8, 2012, 04:23 PM

27. Unless the proposal specifies a trans-vaginal, then

 

one is not required.

"which she said is the only way to perform a sonogram on women who are less than eight to 10 weeks pregnant"

That is simply not true. You can perform a sonogram on anyone. In most cases, it just won't show anything.

Unless the legislation specifies it, it is not worth getting bent out of shape about a TV since it is not required. If folks want to get upset about the sonogram requirement in the first place, that is perfectly legit.

But creating a hyperbolic argument to oppose it doesn't help. It basically says "We couldn't get upset enough about the real requirement so we are going to get upset about a requirement that isn't a requirement". That turns logical people off to the cause in a heartbeat.

That being said, from HB-15

"(4) "Sonogram" means the use of ultrasonic waves for
diagnostic or therapeutic purposes, specifically to monitor an
unborn child."

(B) the physician who is to perform the abortion
displays the sonogram images in a quality consistent with current
medical practice in a manner that the pregnant woman may view them;
(C) the physician who is to perform the abortion
provides, in a manner understandable to a layperson, a verbal
explanation of the results of the sonogram images, including a
medical description of the dimensions of the embryo or fetus, the
presence of cardiac activity, and the presence of external members
and internal organs; and

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/82R/billtext/html/HB00015F.htm

The " in a quality consistent with current medical practice in a manner that the pregnant woman may view them;" part may infer that but it is open to interpretation.

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Wed Feb 8, 2012, 11:04 PM

32. WHAT IN THE SAM HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 08:22 AM

39. when i had my oldest son, they had to onitor him. i am sure it was not exactly the same but

it hurt like hell....

being as old as i am, and all i have seen, i shake my head we have reduced ourselves to this. step by step by step we have given up rights. we the people, have allowed it under all kinds of names... fear being a large on. we have rights lost and some on du advocate those loss of rights like with TSA. this all feeds for the next step to be allowed with hardly a word.

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 08:32 AM

40. Do men realize how archaic this sounds??

Because I know the majority of people who sponsored this bill were Men. They have no idea how invasive this procedure really is. And how heartbreaking it is to see the picture of the fetus. I can't stand it anymore. And these are the same people who are anti-government intrusion. What the heck is this, then??

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Wed Feb 15, 2012, 10:13 PM

42. Wow. n/t

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Response to Tx4obama (Original post)

Thu Feb 16, 2012, 09:30 AM

50. This is beyond sick.....When did the Taliban take over Texass?

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