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Thu May 2, 2013, 11:00 AM

Corporate Democrats pretend, ludicrously, that Republican obstructionism is the main problem.

Last edited Sat Jun 15, 2013, 12:54 PM - Edit history (4)

The REAL main problem is that Wall street has purchased both parties.

The vast majority of the betrayals on this list had nothing to do with Republican obstructionism:


Corporate and bank-cozy appointments, over and over again, including major appointments like:

A serial defender of corrupt bankers for the SEC; the architect of "Kill Lists" and supporter of torture, drone wars, and telecom immunity for the CIA; and a Monsanto VP who has lied and been involved in extremely disturbing claims regarding food safety for the FDA. An Attorney General who has not prosecuted a single large bank but wages war against medical marijuana users and *for* strip searches and warrantless surveillance of Americans. And let's not forget Tim Geithner.

Bailouts and settlements for corrupt banks (with personal pressure from Obama to attorneys general to approve them),
Refusal by Obama's DOJ to prosecute even huge, egregious examples of bank fraud (i.e, HSBC)
signing NDAA to allow indefinite detention,
"Kill lists" and claiming of the right to assassinate even American citizens without trial
Expansion of wars into several new countries
A renewed public advocacy for the concept of preemptive war
Drone campaigns in multiple countries with whom we are not at war
Proliferation of military drones in our skies
Federal targeting of Occupy for surveillance and militarized response to peaceful protesters
Fighting all the way to the Supreme Court for warrantless surveillance
Fighting all the way to the Supreme Court for strip searches for any arrestee
Supporting and signing Internet-censoring and privacy-violating measures like ACTA
Support for corporate groping and naked scanning of Americans seeking to travel
A new, massive spy center for warrantless access to Americans' phone calls, emails, and internet use
Support of legal immunity for telecoms/warrantless wiretapping
Support of legislation to legalize massive surveillance of Americans
Militarized police departments, through federal grants
Marijuana users and medical marijuana clinics under assault,
Skyrocketing of the budget for prisons.
Failing to veto a bipartisan vote in Congress to gut more financial regulations.
Passionate speeches and press conferences promoting austerity for Americans
Bush tax cuts extended for billionaires, them much of it made permanent
Support for the payroll tax holiday, tying SS to the general fund
Support for the vicious chained CPI cut in Social Security and benefits for the disabled
Social security, Medicare, and Medicaid offered up as bargaining chips in budget negotiations, with No mention of cutting corporate welfare or the military budget
Advocacy of multiple new free trade agreements, including The Trans-Pacific, otherwise known as "NAFTA on steroids."
Support of drilling, pipelines, and selling off portions of the Gulf of Mexico
Corporate education policy including high stakes corporate testing and closures of public schools
Entrenchment of exorbitant for-profit health insurance companies into healthcare, through mandate
Legal assault on union rights of hundreds of thousands of federal workers
New policies of targeting children and first responders in drone campaigns,
New policies of awarding medals for remote drone attacks,
Appointment of private prison executive to head the US Marshal's office
Massive escalation of federal contracts for private prisons under US Marshall's office

155 replies, 9000 views

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Reply Corporate Democrats pretend, ludicrously, that Republican obstructionism is the main problem. (Original post)
woo me with science May 2013 OP
leftstreet May 2013 #1
randome May 2013 #2
Dustlawyer May 2013 #35
randome May 2013 #51
Dustlawyer May 2013 #100
JDPriestly May 2013 #137
JRLeft May 2013 #138
AverageJoe90 May 2013 #124
Android3.14 May 2013 #140
randome May 2013 #145
mountain grammy May 2013 #151
Android3.14 May 2013 #155
haikugal May 2013 #3
JoePhilly May 2013 #4
woo me with science May 2013 #5
JoePhilly May 2013 #8
SidDithers May 2013 #12
JoePhilly May 2013 #13
Liberal_Stalwart71 May 2013 #14
JoePhilly May 2013 #15
appal_jack May 2013 #27
RandiFan1290 May 2013 #49
Liberal_Stalwart71 May 2013 #63
Stewland May 2013 #96
Liberal_Stalwart71 May 2013 #105
mountain grammy May 2013 #152
SidDithers May 2013 #16
onehandle May 2013 #18
JoePhilly May 2013 #22
brentspeak May 2013 #64
SidDithers May 2013 #66
brentspeak May 2013 #94
SidDithers May 2013 #97
woo me with science May 2013 #44
SidDithers May 2013 #45
indepat May 2013 #72
winter is coming May 2013 #67
Number23 May 2013 #109
sabrina 1 May 2013 #131
JoePhilly May 2013 #143
rhett o rick May 2013 #133
JoePhilly May 2013 #144
trumad May 2013 #6
woo me with science May 2013 #7
trumad May 2013 #10
BrotherIvan May 2013 #32
geek tragedy May 2013 #11
Indyfan53 May 2013 #23
dotymed May 2013 #36
FSogol May 2013 #42
Sekhmets Daughter May 2013 #59
SidDithers May 2013 #69
FSogol May 2013 #71
sagat May 2013 #73
woo me with science May 2013 #90
sagat May 2013 #92
woo me with science May 2013 #93
Number23 May 2013 #111
Skittles May 2013 #118
Number23 May 2013 #110
Bobbie Jo May 2013 #95
Zoeisright May 2013 #47
woo me with science May 2013 #123
rhett o rick May 2013 #134
trumad May 2013 #141
mountain grammy May 2013 #153
geek tragedy May 2013 #9
woo me with science May 2013 #17
geek tragedy May 2013 #19
woo me with science May 2013 #26
geek tragedy May 2013 #28
woo me with science May 2013 #55
geek tragedy May 2013 #61
woo me with science May 2013 #74
geek tragedy May 2013 #77
ProSense May 2013 #40
FSogol May 2013 #43
IDemo May 2013 #20
woo me with science May 2013 #21
Marr May 2013 #24
appal_jack May 2013 #25
woo me with science May 2013 #99
Fuddnik May 2013 #114
JEB May 2013 #129
MadHound May 2013 #29
woo me with science May 2013 #102
magellan May 2013 #30
on point May 2013 #31
appal_jack May 2013 #33
datasuspect May 2013 #34
ProSense May 2013 #37
Fuddnik May 2013 #115
Stewland May 2013 #38
truebluegreen May 2013 #50
bvar22 May 2013 #39
woo me with science May 2013 #98
bvar22 May 2013 #103
dreamnightwind May 2013 #106
GoneFishin May 2013 #41
ProSense May 2013 #46
HughBeaumont May 2013 #48
woo me with science May 2013 #60
SidDithers May 2013 #91
Fuddnik May 2013 #117
Trajan May 2013 #52
randome May 2013 #56
woo me with science May 2013 #62
SidDithers May 2013 #70
ProSense May 2013 #75
uponit7771 May 2013 #78
woo me with science May 2013 #85
winter is coming May 2013 #86
bvar22 May 2013 #120
zeemike May 2013 #53
woo me with science May 2013 #101
zeemike May 2013 #108
Fuddnik May 2013 #119
heaven05 May 2013 #54
LuvNewcastle May 2013 #57
ProSense May 2013 #58
Demo_Chris May 2013 #65
ProSense May 2013 #68
winter is coming May 2013 #82
ProSense May 2013 #83
winter is coming May 2013 #84
cascadiance May 2013 #76
ProSense May 2013 #80
woo me with science May 2013 #81
Tippy May 2013 #79
octoberlib May 2013 #87
woo me with science May 2013 #89
forestpath May 2013 #88
KoKo May 2013 #104
pscot May 2013 #107
KoKo May 2013 #112
Savannahmann May 2013 #113
davidthegnome May 2013 #132
Skittles May 2013 #116
Fuddnik May 2013 #121
TrollBuster9090 May 2013 #122
ucrdem May 2013 #125
ucrdem May 2013 #126
ProSense May 2013 #127
ucrdem May 2013 #128
JEB May 2013 #130
davidthegnome May 2013 #135
Fire Walk With Me May 2013 #136
ProSense May 2013 #147
blkmusclmachine May 2013 #139
harun May 2013 #142
Teamster Jeff May 2013 #146
xchrom May 2013 #148
sorefeet May 2013 #149
Octafish May 2013 #150
LeftyLucy22 May 2013 #154

Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:03 AM

1. DURec

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:03 AM

2. Then let's not give them that 'excuse'. Get Out The Vote in 2014!

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Response to randome (Reply #2)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:01 PM

35. That will not do ANY GOOD! We put different people in the same matrix and expect a different

result. We put new politicians in a system where they have to be constantly raising money to stay in power and expect them to side with us when the big money comes from them (corporations and. The 1%). Campaign financing is what needs to be changed. Imagine how much more can be done if they do not owe favors and spend more than 1/2 their time at fund raisers!

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #35)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:58 PM

51. No one 'owes' a favor unless they are too weak to think differently.

Is Elizabeth Warren beholden to special interests? Bernie Sanders? There are good politicians out there. Maybe we need to scream louder to get our message across.

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Response to randome (Reply #51)

Thu May 2, 2013, 06:29 PM

100. Love them both, but they are the exceptions.

Bernie is safe but retireing, and Ms Warren has national support. Shout as loud as you can but it won't help unless you can shout with a lot of money as your speech!

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #35)

Fri May 3, 2013, 02:20 AM

137. Thanks.

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #35)

Fri May 3, 2013, 03:01 AM

138. This has to be the our lasered focused issue. Get the money out of politics.

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Response to randome (Reply #2)

Thu May 2, 2013, 10:44 PM

124. Yes, GOTV. And let's stop making excuses for people like the OP while we're at it, shall we? n/t

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Response to randome (Reply #2)

Fri May 3, 2013, 06:38 AM

140. Oh, I'll vote, but...

I've come to realize that voting is like taking a vitamin after a meal at McDonalds.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #140)

Fri May 3, 2013, 08:36 AM

145. If you're going to give up, at least do so quietly so others aren't dragged down.

I do understand where you're coming from. But there is more than merely voting to get the message across. If you have a public blog or a Facebook page, post some thoughtful -not hateful or hyperbolic- reasons on why the Republican party needs to be turned out.

Engage others often. There are rumblings that the GOP governors will be decimated in 2014. That's a good sign.

Gay rights inching more toward mainstream acceptance. That's a good sign.

The Old White Men (OWM) in the Republican party are dying out. Another good sign.

We should be doing what we can to make these things happen faster.

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Response to randome (Reply #145)

Fri May 3, 2013, 09:42 AM

151. Thank you.

Whenever I point out the stupid things right wing politicians say to my conservative "friends" their response is " they are all alike." It's frustrating to hear the same propaganda from my fellow liberals.

The real problem is, conservatives will vote for the stupid no matter what (because they're stupid too) while liberals wait for the "perfect candidate." As a result, we get the worst of the worst.
There are good Democratic candidates who don't take corporate money and even some good ones who do. I say, quit whining that "they're all alike" and get to work.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #151)

Fri May 3, 2013, 12:28 PM

155. I admire your naivete

But I'll match it to my orneriness any day.
I vote in every election, and I tend to vote for the Democrat, and never for the Republican. That being said, it takes the merest observance to recognize that interests other than those of the voters have bought and paid for our politicians. The only time they will ever do anything to help their constituents is if doing nothing is harmful to the corporate and SIG forces they actually represent.
To think otherwise is cow-eyed innocence at the slaughterhouse. I have to laugh at those who are disappointed in Obama. He has done exactly what I expected. The best thing about him is that he tends to let people know what he is going to do. During the debates, he told us he was going to smack Social Security, and he also told us we will probably be going into Iran soon.
But I'll keep on voting, and I'll keep on sending letters to my representatives. After all, maybe we will close Guantanamo, maybe we will get national healthcare, maybe we will have a sane energy policy, maybe we will invest in infrastructure and a jobs program, maybe we will investigate the Bush/Cheney debacle, maybe we will tax the rich, maybe we will have reasonable gun control, and maybe we will do the umpteen million things that anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see we need to do.
Declining to vote is to succumb to hopelessness.
But I will be damned if I will succumb to self-delusion.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:06 AM

3. K&R!!!!

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:06 AM

4. Sounds like Alex Jones wrote a large part of that.

Next we'll all be in Obama's FEMA work camps waiting on a decision from his death panels.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #4)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:13 AM

5. What is false? nt

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #5)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:17 AM

8. Well given the items in your list ... taken together ...

The President is clear to kill American children and first responders using drones on American soil.

I like the expansion of wars into new countries part ... that's rather silly too.

Might as well be arguing that he's setting up FEMA camps.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #4)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:20 AM

12. Just so you know, this post was alerted on...

and you were called a "monkey flinging poo" in the alert.

Hehehe.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #12)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:21 AM

13. LOL ... now THAT is funny.

On edit (because hey, who knows if this post will survive) ... I also find it funny that the same folks who claim that they are being told to "sit down and shut the fuck up", would alert on my response to today's list of grievances.

I guess they want me to "sit down and just the Fuck Up"!

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #13)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:22 AM

14. Sigh... I love you!! :)

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #14)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:25 AM

15. Now I am really laughing!!

Thanks!

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #14)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:45 AM

27. Hoooray, Orthodoxy!

Rah rah sis boom bah! Gooooooo Democrats! Who needs logical arguments when we have a United TEAM?

Rah rah sis boom bah! Gooooooo Democrats! Hoooray, Orthodoxy!

Anyone who disagrees that Obama is the Dreamiest President EVAR is an ickie, Alex Jones lovin', Green Paulite Rethuglican enabler Cootie-head!!!!!

Rah rah sis boom bah! Gooooooo Democrats! Hoooray, Orthodoxy!



-app

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #27)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:43 PM

49. Don't forget our team logo!

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #27)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:41 PM

63. Awww, don't be like that. I'll give you a hug, too! ;)

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #63)

Thu May 2, 2013, 05:39 PM

96. If you think Obama is a liberal

 

Ifyou think Obama is a Liberal I suggest that you find out what a true liberal stands for. He is to the right of even Richard Nixon on many issues.

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Response to Stewland (Reply #96)

Thu May 2, 2013, 07:44 PM

105. I never thought he was a liberal. Never! I supported Kucinich in the primary, then Edwards, sadly.

But I was under NO delusions. I still think he is the best we have and I do think he has been an outstanding president. There's nothing you can say to me that would make me change my mind. I don't agree with all his decisions and I have voiced my opinions clearly. But I see the larger picture and he has been a great president.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #105)

Fri May 3, 2013, 09:50 AM

152. Yes! I'm a "liberal stalwart" too and I agree with you.

Obama wasn't my first or even second choice, but he was my choice against the likes of McCain/Palin and Rmoney/Ryan. These, in my opinion, were real choices, and I voted for the BEST candidate. To say our government would "be the same" under the losers is compeletly ridiculous.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #13)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:25 AM

16. 6-0 in your favour...



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #16)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:27 AM

18. Took me all of half a second to 'judge' this one. nt

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #16)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:32 AM

22. Wow ... aquitted ... I'm holding a press conference (below) right NOW!!!!

Ahem ... Hello. (pauses for the cheers)

First, I'd like to thank my legal team. They did an outstanding job.

Second, and more importantly, I really have to say thank you to the jury.

6 brave souls who were willing to go on the record and not allow an Obama apologist such as myself, to have a post blocked on a Democratic website. Their votes speak louder than any words, in any post, that I could ever type. And I mean that.

They are the heroes today! I will call them the freedom 6 from now on.

And now, I have to go, I have an exclusive interview with Piers Morgan later tonight. Thanks again!!

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #16)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:49 PM

64. Wow, that's pretty impressive

Besides yourself, how many of them weren't you?

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Response to brentspeak (Reply #64)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:58 PM

66. Awwww. Guess we know who the alerter was...



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #66)

Thu May 2, 2013, 04:52 PM

94. Guess you still don't.

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Response to brentspeak (Reply #94)

Thu May 2, 2013, 05:48 PM

97. Sure...



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #12)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:33 PM

44. Did you send the alert, Sid?

It's important for people to see the same, reliable corporate Democrats trying so hard to clutter this thread with anything possible to distract from the main point:

This list exposes the lie of the claim that Republican obstructionism is responsible for the betrayals of this administration.

The list shows how aggressively this administration has worked for corporate interests, on its own volition. We have a problem of corporate money and influence in our party.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #44)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:35 PM

45. No, I was on the jury...nt

Sid

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #44)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:19 PM

72. I like everything BHO has done except for the right-wing thingys of the nature

you have listed of which I like: none.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #12)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:58 PM

67. Is that better or worse than being a poo-flinging monkey? Or a poo, flinging monkey?? n/t

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #4)

Thu May 2, 2013, 08:02 PM

109. Alex Jones after a really, REALLY bad day

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #4)

Fri May 3, 2013, 12:09 AM

131. I didn't see that in the OP, can you point it out please? And what is the DU obsession with

Alex Jones? Why would be following a CT like that as a Democrat? My advice to you is to shut down your link to Alex Jones and stick to reality.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #131)

Fri May 3, 2013, 07:58 AM

143. Read the OP's FIRST version of their list, before the edits ...

They've PULLED a number of the original items ... which is why YOU can't see what I'm referring to.

Maybe you should tell THEM to shut down their link.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #4)

Fri May 3, 2013, 12:57 AM

133. The fact that you have nothing but that absurd response, proves the point of the OP.

No one is speaking of FEMA camps except you. We are talking about his appointments of pro corporatists.

Do you support cutting Social Security? How about Plan B contraception? How about those pesky whistle-blowers? On these issues, President Obama agrees with the Republicans. Do you?

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #133)

Fri May 3, 2013, 08:01 AM

144. Apparently ...

... the OP has edited out the items I was referring to.

Items which taken together, suggest Obama will be killing American children and first responders with intent, on American soil.

I'm guessing the OP pulled those after a jury ruled 6-0 to let my original post stand.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:15 AM

6. I'm a neo-Liberal because I think Mitch McConnell and John the tan Boner are major obstructionists?

OK---then call me Neo.

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Response to trumad (Reply #6)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:16 AM

7. This list is full of major betrayals that have nothing to do with Republican obstructionism. nt

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #7)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:18 AM

10. Yeah well---

I think it's the main problem.

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Response to trumad (Reply #10)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:54 AM

32. Because I vote for Democrats, I have a right to demand they keep their promises

I don't have as much sway in the Republican party.

The Republicans are nutters to be sure, but if so, why are Democrats enabling them? And why for the the things the Democrats do have control over, which at this time includes the executive branch, do they push neoliberal/warhawk policy as the OP has pointed out?

They are using the crazy Republicans as cover. They want us to believe that they are powerless when the above list proves they are anything but. They know that apologists will shut down and derail discussion of bad policy every time (see also above). Then they all will meet for drinks later with their owners and slap each other on the back.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #7)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:19 AM

11. It's Green Party/Ron Paul talking points.

Blame everything bad on Democrats, and pretend that Republican votes were irrelevant for stuff like tax policy.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #11)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:33 AM

23. Exactly

It's this thinking that can cause another shellacking in the mid terms.

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Response to Indyfan53 (Reply #23)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:15 PM

36. In the mid-terms, all elections,

I want to elect a politician that has not been pre-approved by TPTB. I want average Americans to field politicians that
want to work for the people, not the wealthy. IMO, elections can only make a difference when average Americans, not corporations,
decide who is running and if they deserve their vote. Party first has destroyed us.

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Response to Indyfan53 (Reply #23)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:26 PM

42. 2014 is why OPs like this one are posted daily. They want to suppress

Democratic voting in the mid terms. 2014 will be here sooner than you think.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #11)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:35 PM

59. A jury voted 6-0 to Leave It Alone.

At Thu May 2, 2013, 01:19 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

It's Green Party/Ron Paul talking points.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2786498

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Accusing the OP of being either a RW nutjob ("It's Ron Paul talking points") or otherwise, not even a Democrat ("It's Green Party talking points".) Pretty laughable that somehow the Green Party and Ron Paul are joining forces, in geek tragedy's imagination, but whatever...

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu May 2, 2013, 01:23 PM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: woo me with science is an asshole. I would have left this post even if geek had outright called him an asshole, under the same theory that says the truth can't be libelous. As it stands, the post is fine, and correctly pegs woo me's usual stupidities and green/Ron Paul talking points. Again, the truth is an affirmative defense.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: not seeing the problem
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: It's an opinion about the content, nothing against the rules.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I didn't see right wing nut job anywhere and accusation of not being a democrat. Talk about imagination. The jury system is not your personal soap box to be used because you like or dislike something. It's an opinion just like woos. Leave it.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Stop it...This is yet another bullshit alert. There are no accusations in this post..just a simple statement of fact. What is laughable is that you would alert on that fact. The / doesn't represent a coalition, but that both are using the same BS talking points to excuse republicans from responsibility.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #59)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:02 PM

69. Another awesome result...

Juror #1.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #69)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:04 PM

71. Agreed. LOL. n/t

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #59)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:23 PM

73. Right on, Juror #1.

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Response to sagat (Reply #73)

Thu May 2, 2013, 04:18 PM

90. "Right on" for saying that I am an "asshole"?

How nice of you.

Let's reiterate what's happening here, as it always does in threads that speak the truth about the real loyalties of corporate Democrats: The point of the OP cannot be refuted; hence, the desperate need by the reliable group of corporate defenders to trash both the thread AND me.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #90)

Thu May 2, 2013, 04:32 PM

92. If the shoe fits...

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Response to sagat (Reply #92)

Thu May 2, 2013, 04:39 PM

93. You used a low count sock to do that, huh.

Last edited Thu May 2, 2013, 05:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Coward. (Jury, please read the context)

Now, how about addressing the point of the thread, which nobody has yet to refute?

I welcome this demonstration of what happens to a thread that presents information that cannot be refuted or spun away. This sort of ugly rhetoric is par for the course for corporate Democrats wishing to deflect from what their ilk are *actually* doing in Washington.

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Response to sagat (Reply #73)

Thu May 2, 2013, 08:13 PM

111. Juror #6 was on point too

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Response to sagat (Reply #73)

Thu May 2, 2013, 09:01 PM

118. why is woo me an asshole?

because he is not a swooner?

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #59)

Thu May 2, 2013, 08:09 PM

110. Juries are kicking ass in this thread!

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #11)

Thu May 2, 2013, 05:08 PM

95. Version #4,572.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #7)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:41 PM

47. Sounds like the logical reasoning part of science

hasn't wooed you yet.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #47)

Thu May 2, 2013, 09:42 PM

123. Please proceed.

Please explain, using logical reasoning, how the many, many serious betrayals on this list are the fault of Republican obstructionism.

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Response to trumad (Reply #6)

Fri May 3, 2013, 01:00 AM

134. We all agree with you that the Republicans are obstructionists. But I believe that some if not many

Democrats also carry water for the major corporations. Think about it. They get paid big dollars to support the 1%.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #134)

Fri May 3, 2013, 07:05 AM

141. The main problem is the Republicans.

Period.

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Response to trumad (Reply #141)

Fri May 3, 2013, 09:56 AM

153. Yes, exactly.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #9)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:26 AM

17. Posting the administration's record is important, when it is repeatedly being mischaracterized.

We are told, repeatedly and ludicrously, that Republicans are the only problem here. This list of administration actions, most of which had nothing to do with Republican obstructionism, exposes the lie of pretending that Republican obstructionism is the main problem we face.

When simply posting a list of the administration's own behavior elicits this type of defensiveness, there is clearly a problem with the health of the party.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #17)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:27 AM

19. How many military drones have you seen in your skies?

Pretending that Republican obstructionism was irrelevant to all of everything on your spam list is the truly dishonest position.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #19)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:37 AM

26. Baseless, false denial is not an argument.

Of course drones are being proliferated in American skies. What a ludicrous comment that flies in the face of history and reality.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022405129
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002319846

The vast majority on the list had nothing to do with Republican obstructionism. I await your explanation of how most of these were Republicans' fault.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #26)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:47 AM

28. You talked about "military drones in our skies' which is Ron Paul-style bullshit.

In that it's a paranoid fantasy that you just made up of your own imagination, much like Rand Paul worrying about a citizen getting blown up sipping coffee at a cafe.

The militarized response was the result of individual PDs, not any federal bogeyman. So putting that on Obama is like putting the Boston bombing on Obama.

Payroll tax holiday was the only kind of stimulus that could get through Congress given . . . Republican obstructionism.

Extension of Bush tax cuts for the wealthy--actually it was Obama insisting that taxes on the rich go up just a few months ago--with success. Of course, he needed . . . wait for it . . . Republican votes to get unemployment benefits extension, tax credits for the working poor, etc.

The NDAA passed both houses of Congress with veto-proof majorities.

Signing of "bipartisan vote in Congress to gut financial regulations" is kind of funny since Obama and the Democrats pushed hard to get Dodd-Frank passed.

Whining about Obamacare is Teabaggerish at this point. Single payer wasn't going to pass.

"No mention of cutting the military budget"--I guess you missed the sequester.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #28)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:27 PM

55. That was breathtaking denial. Really, that was stunning.

1. Nonsense. Of course drones are being proliferated in US skies, as my links and a passing familiarity with the news clearly show. You are denying something that even the MSM does not bother to deny anymore. Invoking Rand Paul and using the words "paranoid fantasy" does not change that.

2. The nationwide brutal and militarized response to Occupy was federally coordinated, as you know very well. Moreover, Wall Street itself participated in the government's surveillance of the protests. The militarization of police departments and the provision of drones to them is happening largely through federal grants from the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Defense.

DHS & DoD Funding Increases Militarization of Local Police Depts Nationwide
http://www.occupycorporatism.com/dhs-dod-funding-increases-militarization-of-local-police-depts-nationwide/

ACLU Launches Nationwide Police Militarization Investigation
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/06/aclu-police-militarization-swat_n_2813334.html

3. Nonsense. The payroll tax cut tied SS to the general fund, which was exactly the goal. Democrats held the White House, one house of Congress, and had the potential will and fury of the American people behind them to protect SS and demand a more effective stimulus, if they had chosen to make that argument publicly. They didn't. Republicans repeatedly "hold Democrats hostage" because Democrats choose not to hold Republicans hostage.

4. Of course NDAA passed bipartisanly. That is precisely the point, and precisely the problem.

5. For you to claim Dodd-Frank as immunity for all subsequent dismantling of financial regulations and protections is appalling to say the least. Dodd-Frank was an intentionally voluminous and cumbersome collection of legalese and loopholes crafted by bankers, and much of what was good in it has already been reversed. It has done nothing to slow the financial speculation that is the cancer in this system. If anything, "too big to fail" and financial corruption protecting big banks in Washington have been codified and normalized during this administration, as Elizabeth Warren's recent grillings on Capitol Hill have clearly shown.

6. A public option had overwheming support from Americans as polls at the time clearly showed, and a public option, not single payer, is what Obama promised to work for. Again, he chose not to use his bully pulpit and rally the tremendous support that popular approval would have provided. Instead, he sought a backroom deal providing the insurance companies with an unprecedented mandate entrenching the for-profit insurance companies into our health care system and demanding that every single American purchase their exorbitant middleman product.

7. The budget for the MIC is not actually being cut. Do you think we are stupid?






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Response to woo me with science (Reply #55)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:41 PM

61. Virtually nothing you said in that post is true.

You claimed there has been a "proliferation of military drones in our skies."

That is black helicopters nuttiness.

2. Ditto re: the federal crackdown that never happened.

3. Gibberish essentially pretending Republicans don't exist, let alone control the House of Congresswith primary responsibility for tax and spending bills.

4. The offending section of the NDAA was put on there due to Republican insistence. Rather than defund the military, Democrats let it become law. Considering the NDAA explicitly states that it does not change existing law, ho hum.

5. You're arguing that legislation to impose regulations on Wall Street is meaningless because of a bunch of shit you fabricated (the bill was not drafted by bankers, since they opposed it genius).

6. Public option didn't mean no mandate. Also, the public option that could have passed Congress would have been a watered-down crapburger designed to fail.

7. Sequester imposed mandatory cuts on defense spending. I'll let others answer the second half of that question.

Last word (or random accumulation of a bunch of words) is yours.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #61)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:26 PM

74. When you cannot refute the list,

you resort to a flat denial of history and reality:

The proliferation of drones in the US, promoted through federal grants, "does not exist."
The federally coordinated, brutal crackdown on Occupy that we all witnessed "never happened."

Keep repeating that the relentless parade of betrayals, which we all witness ourselves, every single day, is either the fault of Republican obstructionism, or is not really happening...

War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.
The chocolate ration has been increased.
Drone murders are Legal, Ethical, and Wise.
Chained CPI is Superlative and Protects the Poor.
Obama proposed cuts in Social Security because he Opposes them
and
The Betrayals on that List Never Really Happened

This, my friends, is how Orwellian the Third Way propaganda has been forced to become.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #74)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:39 PM

77. How many military drones have you spotted in the US?

You claimed there was a proliferation of "military drones."

This is an example of a non-military drone:

http://www.amazon.com/Syma-S107-S107G-Helicopter-Yellow/dp/B004A8ZRB0/ref=sr_1_8?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1367519437&sr=1-8&keywords=airplane+control+remote

There was no federal coordination of the OWS evictions, despite what one reads on various conspiracy theory websites. Heck, Glenn Greenwald has never bothered to criticize Obama for that.

Unless he's part of the conspiracy too.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #17)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:25 PM

40. It's spam, and not even good spam

"Support for the payroll tax holiday, tying SS to the general fund "

A Democratic President enacted the COLA. Everything objectionable, from linking Social Security to the general fund, was part of that proposal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022045787

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #9)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:27 PM

43. +100 n/t

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:29 AM

20. You're aware that neoliberalism doesn't equate to liberal, right?

Most if not all Republicans now are fully on board with economic neoliberalism, which espouses free markets, deregulation and privatization. The Koch brothers are "neoliberals".

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Response to IDemo (Reply #20)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:31 AM

21. That is exactly my point.

But I will change the headline to "corporate Democrats" to reduce confusion.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:35 AM

24. Yep-- and it's this kind of thing that makes the cries of "Republicans made us do it" so

unconvincing on other issues.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:35 AM

25. K&R for highlighting serious, systemic issues

The DU Politboro seem to find these truths uncomfortable, but I've yet to see any substantive counter-argument to the factual actions summarized by woo's OP.

K&R

-app

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #25)

Thu May 2, 2013, 06:27 PM

99. Yes, nothing substantive,

just the usual, desperate attempt to trash the thread with distractions, mocking, and insults.

That's because there *isn't* any substantive rebuttal to the list.

The list is devastating, and speaks for itself.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #99)

Thu May 2, 2013, 08:49 PM

114. The mob is out tonight.

When you start invoking Alex Jones and Rand Paul, you've already lost the argument.

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #25)

Fri May 3, 2013, 12:02 AM

129. If you can't counter the message,

attack the messenger.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:50 AM

29. Preach it woo,

 

Of course you are preaching truth in the Temple of Democrats, a heresy don't you know

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Response to MadHound (Reply #29)

Thu May 2, 2013, 06:40 PM

102. And on the day after Loyalty Day!

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:51 AM

30. Everything on this list seems to be okay with some here

...or they're so far up the party's ass they believe none of it is as important as Repub obstructionism - completely disregarding that at least some of it is a result of "compromise" with those obstructionists, if not outright agreement on legislation.

Personally, these defenders of Third Way neoliberalism and IOKIADDI lost me a long time ago. The more they try to browbeat people into line, the stronger my resolve to be far more judicious with my vote. I won't stop the slide to the right alone, but neither will I be party to it any longer.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:53 AM

31. Corrupt, Complicit, Craven dems do not represent us, but do sabotage us

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:56 AM

33. Also, stacking the Bogus 'Debt Commission' with neoliberals

Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles are on the same side with respect to Social Security (i.e.- they want to see it destroyed).

They are both neoliberals, though Simpson is a corporate Republican, while Bowles is a corporate Democrat. Thus, the illusion of choice.

-app

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:58 AM

34. add penny pritzker appointment to that list

 

she's been an obama patroness since forever.

BIG TIME donor. her $$$$$$ played a large part in his senate bid.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:17 PM

37. Rove: GOP Has ‘Outside Chance’ Of Winning Senate In 2014

Rove: GOP Has ‘Outside Chance’ Of Winning Senate In 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022785814a

Screw the "Corporate Democrats," Republicans are not to blame.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #37)

Thu May 2, 2013, 08:53 PM

115. Then Democrats better start giving us reasons to vote for them.

Something other than double-talk, finger pointing, and bullshit.

The game is getting old.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:21 PM

38. I voted for Obama because he was lthe lesser evil

 

Obama disappoints me simply because he so willingly gives into his corporate handlers. He is not the Hope and Change he made himself out to be. He took massive amounts of campaign money from the very interests that work to undermine real progress. One can't help but think that his true intent was never to work for any meaningful change .

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Response to Stewland (Reply #38)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:53 PM

50. +1000

and welcome to DU.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:23 PM

39. ....but it was ALL Joe Lieberman's fault!

He is a BIG SUPER BULLY!
He beat up the president and knocked The WHEELS Off the whole Democratic Party!
He ruined Health Care for EVERYBODY!
There was NOTHING we could Doooooo.
It was HORRIBLE!



White House Rescues DINO Blanche Lincoln's Failing 2010 Democratic Primary Campaign in Arkansas
"So what did the Democratic Party establishment do when a Senator who allegedly impedes their agenda faced a primary challenger who would be more supportive of that agenda? They engaged in full-scale efforts to support Blanche Lincoln. Bill Clinton traveled to Arkansas to urge loyal Democrats to vote for her, bashing liberal groups for good measure. Obama recorded an ad for Lincoln which, among other things, were used to tell African-American primary voters that they should vote for her because she works for their interests. The entire Party infrastructure lent its support and resources to Lincoln — a Senator who supposedly prevents Democrats from doing all sorts of Wonderful, Progressive Things which they so wish they could do but just don’t have the votes for.

Ordinarily, when Party leaders support horrible incumbents in primaries, they use the “electability” excuse: this is a conservative state, the incumbent has the best chance to win, and the progressive challenger is out-of-step with voters. That excuse is clearly unavailable here. As Public Policy Polling explained yesterday, Lincoln has virtually no chance of winning in November against GOP challenger John Boozman. And while it would have also been difficult for Halter to beat Boozman, polls consistently showed that he had a better chance than Lincoln did. That’s unsurprising, given how much better non-Washington candidates are doing in this incumbent-hating climate than long-term Washington insiders. And it’s rather difficult to claim that Halter is out-of-step with Arkansas given that they elected him their Lt. Governor. Whatever the reasons Washington Democrats had for supporting the deeply unpopular Lincoln, it had nothing whatsoever to do with electability.

What happened in this race also gives the lie to the insufferable excuse we’ve been hearing for the last 18 months from countless Obama defenders: namely, if the Senate doesn’t have 60 votes to pass good legislation, it’s not Obama’s fault because he has no leverage over these conservative Senators. It was always obvious what an absurd joke that claim was; the very idea of The Impotent, Helpless President, presiding over a vast government and party apparatus, was laughable. But now, in light of Arkansas, nobody should ever be willing to utter that again with a straight face. Back when Lincoln was threatening to filibuster health care if it included a public option, the White House could obviously have said to her: if you don’t support a public option, not only will we not support your re-election bid, but we’ll support a primary challenger against you. Obama’s support for Lincoln did not merely help; it was arguably decisive, as The Washington Post documented today:"

<much more>

http://www.salon.com/2010/06/10/lincoln_6/


But we might not have had 60 votes,
so we were too afraid to try.



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Response to bvar22 (Reply #39)

Thu May 2, 2013, 05:56 PM

98. Well, that says it all, doesn't it.


Imagine if Warren were to express serious interest in a Presidential run.

Things would get instructive, very quickly.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #98)

Thu May 2, 2013, 07:00 PM

103. If Warren were to express a serious interest,

...the Conservative Big Business Power Brokers running the Democratic Party would do to HER
exactly what they did to Howard Dean,
and to Ashley Judd down in Kentucky.

If you ain't on the Chamber of Commerce approved "A" list,
you ain't gettin in.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #39)

Thu May 2, 2013, 07:47 PM

106. Excellent contribution

to this discussion, and many others.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:26 PM

41. Using the U.S. Coast Guard and FAA no-fly-zones to limit reporter access to major oil spill sites.

Under the threat of arrest.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:39 PM

46. Here's a

challenge. Next time, instead of posting a fairly unreadable and inaccurate list, please post the Democrats you'd like to see challenged and unseated. There is still time to be proactive. This offer is open to anyone who supports this OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022786961

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 12:41 PM

48. I'll tell you why American Politics sucks . . .

. . . it's because in America, you don't have an OPTION.

Nowhere to GO. Everyone's purchased. No progressive voices. Authoritarian Conservatives own and operate EVERYTHING.

There is nothing we can do, because our next viable option ALSO sucks.

I got people on facebook . . . semi-famous people, mind you . . . that go on the "both parties are the same" thing (and economically, sorry to say, it IS a wash). But then, names like Ron Paul and Gary Johnson pop up . . . or "I'm voting Libertarian"!!

LIBERTARIANS ARE THE SAME FUCKING ONE PERCENTER-FELLATING GARBAGE. THEY'RE REPUBLICANS MINUS TEH JESUS PLUS GUNZ 'N' BONGS. But I'M the one that's called a "Sheeple"?? COME on.

Among the positions they advocate:
Fair Taxation (Neal Boortz idea and a favorite of idle rich conservatives),
Stopping "Class Warfare" ("Leave the rich alooo o o o ne!")
Either Free Trade or Border Closure (Which ALL regressive wingnuts lurve),
Vouchers for schools and medicare (SUPER wingnuttery),
Deregulation (Let Big Biznezz run WILD),
Abolishing the IRS (Paulbot stupidity)
Defunding/eliminating social programs (or, as conservaturds put it, "entitlements")

Paul and Johnson are also pro-lifers, anti-universal health care and even hate the insurer-friendly "Obamacare".

I think ending the military interventions, ending the TSA/spying on citizens lunacy, pro-marriage equality and ending the drug war (not so much because they're pro-peace, pro-liberty, pro-gay or pro-pot, but more because they're anti-federal-government-getting-involved-in-ANYthing states rights people) are just about the only progressive initiatives on their agenda. Everything else is wingnut crapola, especially their economics.

So that leaves us with a progressive party that literally serves as the Kansas City Royals in a room full of Red Sox, Yankees and Dodgers. Who has the voice? Who has the TV rights? Who has the financial backing from corporations?

There isn't any option for the worker. There isn't any option for the senior. There isn't any option for the student. There isn't any option for the un/under-employed.

Until money is out of politics and we get more parties, this system is going to continue to belch out Milton Friedman worshippers. Hell, even Milton Friedman toyed with the idea of Guaranteed Minimum Income.

We don't even get THAT from EITHER party, because any notion of "egalitarianism" or "economic fairness" = Nikita Khruschev. Or something.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #48)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:37 PM

60. +1000000


Two corporate candidates, two corporate agendas to choose between. And an entire election season full of more One Percent Theater masquerading as a choice.

This is what happens when the corporate purchase of Washington becomes THIS deep and thorough and unchallenged.

And the constant propaganda that denies reality and tries so hard to convince us that what we see in front of us isn't really happening: That is what happens when corporate money purchases and infiltrates media, relentlessly, down to discussion boards on the internet.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #60)

Thu May 2, 2013, 04:25 PM

91. Posting privileges before principles...

say what really mean, and damn the consequences.

Yeah, right.

Sid

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #60)

Thu May 2, 2013, 08:58 PM

117. Richard Wolff had it right.

Proportional representation, not winner take all elections.

If you can muster 15% of the vote, you should get 15% of the seats. But, that would be real democracy. Like they have in Europe. Not this totally dysfunctional crap we've devolved to.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:06 PM

52. The essential problem with your thesis

Bifurcation .... You insist that ONLY corporate Democrats are the 'problem', exclusive of republican obstructionism ...

Most reasonable people agree that BOTH are a problem ...

Your problem is : Your thesis is based upon a false dichotomy fallacy ... There isnt one answer - There are multiple answers ...

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Response to Trajan (Reply #52)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:29 PM

56. Way to cut to the chase!

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Response to randome (Reply #56)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:41 PM

62. No, nonsense. And poor rhetoric, to boot.

The attempts to reverse roles here are quite amusing. Democrats appalled by the corporate purchase of our party have long argued that both Republicans and Democrats participate in collusion to sell out our country to corporate interests.

This post is in response to those who claim repeatedly that Republican obstruction is the MAIN problem we face. It clearly is not the main problem, as the list clearly shows.

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Response to Trajan (Reply #52)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:03 PM

70. Nailed it...nt

Sid

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Response to Trajan (Reply #52)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:32 PM

75. "You insist that ONLY corporate Democrats are the 'problem'"

"You insist that ONLY corporate Democrats are the 'problem' exclusive of republican obstructionism"

Pattern: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2605246

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Response to Trajan (Reply #52)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:41 PM

78. +1, the ONUS being GOP obstructionism

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Response to Trajan (Reply #52)

Thu May 2, 2013, 03:01 PM

85. No, I have said repeatedly that the two corporate parties collude.

Reasonable people will, indeed, agree that corporate Democrats aggressively push corporate policy, as the list amply shows.

This post is in response to those who cannot bring themselves to acknowledge that the vast majority of these serious betrayals had nothing to do with Republican obstructionism.

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Response to Trajan (Reply #52)

Thu May 2, 2013, 03:02 PM

86. +1. n/t

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Response to Trajan (Reply #52)

Thu May 2, 2013, 09:02 PM

120. That is a bald mischaracterization.

Please cite where Woo "insist(s) that ONLY corporate Democrats are the 'problem', exclusive of republican obstructionism ... "

I think you owe Woo an apology and a retraction.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:07 PM

53. It is a pretty sobering list Woo.

And when you look at it all together like that it makes you think that we DID get fooled again.
The only thing we got out of it was what they did not care about...and then they made it a long drawn out process that produced not much change in the end...and in fact bolstered some things like spying on us and taking away our rights...and institutionalized torture...

Yep I am upset with it, because I wanted to believe...

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Response to zeemike (Reply #53)

Thu May 2, 2013, 06:38 PM

101. A lot of people wanted to believe.

The corporatists used that, and continue to try to use it.

Corporate propaganda is backed by Madison Avenue and has the deep pockets of Wall Street. A lot of money goes into selling the product. I'm afraid, though, that we've reached the point in the assault where people are hurting so badly that the old rhetoric isn't working anymore.

In Orwell, Newspeak could erase the past and convince an ever-more-oppressed populace that the chocolate ration really had been increased. In real life, it is much harder to convince people that the relentless, repeated corporate assaults they see and hear and experience every single day aren't really happening to them.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #101)

Thu May 2, 2013, 08:01 PM

108. They may know the corporate assault is happening to them

But they don't know what to do about it...and none of our leaders care about doing anything about it...we are too distracted with shiny things to notice what is really happening...which is the transfer of power from democracy to oligarchy.
Slowly but surely they buy up the functions of government...schools. prisons and so forth and soon we are in the Big Brother world Orwell spoke of.

But as a point, Newspeak was not intended to erase history...it was intended to make thinking about history impossible by restricting language to a few thousand words.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #101)

Thu May 2, 2013, 09:02 PM

119. If anyone wants a working model for it, try "Manufacturing Consent" by Noam Chomsky

He nails all the politicians collusion and propaganda to the wall.

All documented.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:22 PM

54. ooohhhh!

sock it to them..... all true.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:29 PM

57. woo me with science, I always enjoy your posts.

You say things that need to be said, but your posts are hard to read because you don't use spaces. I'd like for your posts to be enjoyed by more people, so start using some spaces. Thanks.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:32 PM

58. Democrats who voted for the House CISPA bill

Democrats who voted for the House CISPA bill
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022787209

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:56 PM

65. rec

 

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:00 PM

68. FYI: Defense Budget FY 2001 through FY 2014



http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbudget/fy2014/FY2014_Budget_Request_Overview_Book.pdf

Fiscal years:

FY 2008 (Oct 2007 to Sep 2008) - $665 billion
FY 2009 (Oct 2008 to Sep 2009) - $666 billion
FY 2010 (Oct 2009 to Sep 2010) - $691 billion
FY 2011 (Oct 2010 to Sep 2011) - $687 billion
FY 2012 (Oct 2011 to Sep 2012) - $645 billion
FY 2013 (Oct 2012 to Sep 2013) - $614 billion
FY 2014 (Oct 2013 to Sep 2014) - $615 billion

The FY 2012 through FY 2014 budgets was/will be $20 billion to $50 billion less than the FY 2009 budget.

The budget spiked in President Obama's first year, but has dropped drastically since then, about $45 billion through FY 2012, and will drop by about $75 billion through FY 2014.

This doesn't include sequestration cuts.

I realize no one is going to check the OP on facts. LOL!





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Response to ProSense (Reply #68)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:47 PM

82. Does that include the cost of the wars? During the Bush administration,

war costs were off the books.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #82)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:48 PM

83. Yes. n/t

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Response to ProSense (Reply #83)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:48 PM

84. Thanks. n/t

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:37 PM

76. Add expanding H-1B quotas to this list, which is being pushed by them through Immigration Bill..

... that is really a wolf in sheep's clothing that will take away more American jobs to help the corporate elites.

Hillary Clinton earlier was on record as supporting this as well, and Barack Obama hasn't been consistent in this area too.

If you want to really push to help streamline people immigrating to become a part of this country on an even playing field with the right to vote, be a part of a union, etc. then do that, so that people who want to become citizens don't have to wait 10 years or so to do so like many do now! Don't support imported slave labor programs that legitimize what employers try to do and rely on inadequate prosecution of themselves that they've paid government not to do in the case of them just hiring undocumented workers without a "guest worker" program shield for them.

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Response to cascadiance (Reply #76)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:42 PM

80. Here:

Robert Reich: What Immigration Reform Could Mean for...Workers, and Why the AFL-CIO Is Embracing Ithttp://www.democraticunderground.com/10022609493

Gang of Eight bill delivers on bold, broad legalization of undocumented workers
http://www.epi.org/blog/secure-borders-delivers-bold-broad-legalization/

Still, I expect "kill the bill" to become the new mantra.

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Response to cascadiance (Reply #76)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:44 PM

81. +10000 The visas, and the looming Trans-Pacific free trade agreement,

together spell a dark future for American employees.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:41 PM

79. I know this is impossible but

As Citizens we have rights and one of those rights should be that the we can fire anyone not doing their job....We can still Vote at least most of us can..We demand to vote ourselves not have Congress making all the decisions....Why the hell should taxpayers foot the bill for a do nothing Congress.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 03:30 PM

87. We need publicly funded elections and

more Dems on the Supreme Court so we can get rid of "corporations are people too".

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Response to octoberlib (Reply #87)

Thu May 2, 2013, 03:48 PM

89. Yup, corporate money is the root of the problem,

in elections and in government. That is why corporate Democrats (and corporate Republicans) will always try to steer the conversation to anything else.

They would much rather we be drawn into flamewars about individual politicians or posters than identify a systemic problem that can be fixed.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 03:35 PM

88. K&R

 

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 07:39 PM

104. So few want to address that, though...

makes one wonder. I know large part is MSM...but, we've tried to work against that...

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 07:56 PM

107. A Republican could run on that platform

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 08:15 PM

112. Yes...it's a farce...and Dance with the Devil...on both sides...and the Deception. n/t

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 08:37 PM

113. We have made the classic error.

I was reading a book, and in it Patriots were described in less than flattering terms. The dedicated patriot had two choices. My country is always right. My country right or wrong.

That could well be applied to core supporters of political parties. My Party is always right, even when they do things that are wrong. My party right or wrong, doesn't matter.

I think we have put party, over principal. I think we have made the classic error. As we approach elections, with that kind of record, how do we describe our beliefs, our ideals? We believe in the party, first and foremost, because we disapprove of the other party. We believe in a womans right to choose, except when it comes to plan B. Then we're fighting to limit a womans right to that particular thing. We believe in diplomacy and negotiation, and if that gets us nowhere in ten minutes, we believe in bombing the crap out of them with drones. We believe in due process of law, except when it seems to get in the way, or we have to do something with the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.

Our words are very different than the Republicans, our actions are not so much different than Republicans. We can blame them for obstruction, but things we can do, through policy decisions, and directions of the Chief Executive, we don't do. We are so afraid of looking soft on defense, that we make Vlad the Impaler look like a wimp. We are so afraid of looking soft on Crime, we spent an entire weekend debating whether an American Citizen should have due process of law. We are so terrified of looking weak on Homeland Security, that we turn the agents loose if the weatherman predicts rain and it doesn't.

We become that which we oppose, because we are more afraid of being out of power, by doing the right thing, which may be unpopular with the folks who aren't going to vote for us anyway. We drive our own supporters away, because we don't do what we said we would.

So what are we left with? We are left fighting for the party, which has little reason left to fight for.

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Response to Savannahmann (Reply #113)

Fri May 3, 2013, 12:47 AM

132. Excellent post.

Hitting the nail on the head.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 08:56 PM

116. THANK YOU

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 09:05 PM

121. Kick and Rec!

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 09:12 PM

122. Corporations own both parties. But there's one key difference:


If you POINT OUT examples of where Senators or Congressmen have voted for corporate interests over public interests...

Republicans are PROUD of it
Democrats are EMBARRASSED by it.


Fact: One of the key differences between Democrats and Republicans is that Republicans think what's good for Corporations IS good for their constituents. ALWAYS. NO EXCEPTIONS. Make things sweet for corporations, and things will BECOME sweet for the people as well. It's part of their dogmatic faith in the free market.

Democrats, on the other hand, realized that corporate and public interests SOMETIMES coincide, but not always. And when corporate interests and public interests are in conflict, IT IS THEIR DUTY to side with the interests of the public. If they DON'T do that, they're betraying their constituents. And THAT'S SOMETHING YOU CAN USE to FORCE DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMEN TO BEHAVE!

You can't get somebody to stop doing something that they're proud of by drawing attention to it.
But you CAN get somebody to stop doing something they're EMBARRASSED over by drawing attention to it.

IF YOU CALL OUT Democratic Party Congressmen every time they betray public interests in favor of corporate interests...THEY'LL STOP DOING IT!

YOU HAVE THE POWER TO PAPER TRAIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. DO IT! You can't get mad at a dog that's never been paper trained for pissing on your carpet. You have only yourself to blame. Likewise, we can only be mad at ourselves for our failure to paper train our own party.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 10:49 PM

125. Six edits and still no links.

I know your heart is probably in the right place but this does not inspire confidence in a well-informed citizenry.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:18 PM

126. To take one example: "Support for naked scanning of Americans"

In fact, full-body scanners are currently being removed from all US airports, with a deadline of June 2013, and the manufacturer is footing the bill:

Unpopular Full-Body Scanners to Be Removed From Airports
Published: January 18, 2013

WASHINGTON — After years of complaints by passengers and members of Congress, the Transportation Security Administration said Friday that it would begin removing the controversial full-body scanners that produce revealing images of airline travelers beginning this summer.

The agency said it canceled a contract, originally worth $40 million, with the maker of the scanners, Rapiscan, after the company failed to meet a Congressional deadline for new software that would protect passengers’ privacy.

(snip)

Rapiscan will be required to pay for removing the scanners. In a statement, Deepak Chopra, the company’s president, said the decision to cancel the contract and remove the scanners was a “a mutually satisfactory agreement with the T.S.A.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/19/us/tsa-to-remove-invasive-body-scanners.html?_r=0


So that means unnumbered beef ##, "Support for corporate groping and naked scanning of Americans seeking to travel," is wrong. But you're happy to keep flogging a Cato-Koch-Greenwald meme because it blames Obama. Maybe you should think more carefully about where you buy your beef?

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #126)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:21 PM

127. It doesn't matter that the

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Response to ProSense (Reply #127)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:27 PM

128. It sounds great when Noam says it.

And he's a famous former professor of what was it again? Oh yes, linguistics. And now he's the expert on US politics. I see the link but it's not a good one.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #128)

Fri May 3, 2013, 12:07 AM

130. Nice condescension.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Fri May 3, 2013, 01:27 AM

135. A good read as always, Woo.

While I haven't always agreed with you, on the issue of corporate democrats I'd say we are very much on the same side. For anyone, I mean, anyone at all, to pretend that GOP obstructionism is the primary issue with our political system is absolutely ridiculous. It is *A* problem, yes. However... anyone who hasn't been asleep for the last ten, twenty years and more must at least recognize the enormous (and ever-growing) corporate influence over our politics and over so many various aspects of our lives.

Citizens United. In other words, enormous bribes for politicians from corporate entities being made perfectly legal, simply not actually called bribery (corporate person-hood). Hard money... soft money, I remember when my Father explained the concept to me as a boy, I could not understand how we could maintain the pretense of democracy when we permit our elected representatives to sell their votes to the highest bidder. Even the pretense of it is no longer convincing even as a pretense. There are precious few people, I think, that honestly believe the game is anything other than rigged.

I truly sympathize with people like ProSense (who's views are very similar to my Father's) who believe that we can create change from within, that our politicians (some of them, at least...) are still on our side and at least trying to do the right thing. I sympathize with them and wish I could believe as they do. I cannot.

Campaign finance is the first issue we have to address if we are truly to create a system that is representative of the public. This one isn't. I can't honestly believe that these wealthy folks (so very reminiscent of the nobility and royalty of the historical monarchies) are truly concerned for the welfare of the average person. Another posted earlier mentioned Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren - they are - by far - the exceptions, politicians who dare to speak truth.

As someone who is still a young man trying to struggle through our difficult world within a difficult economic and social structure... I realize that, without the support of my parents and their mildly successful average middle class life... I would not be here to discuss this. I would be, instead, living on the streets or within a homeless shelter. Or, perhaps I might manage to do a little better with what little remains of our social safety net - then to be despised by both fellow democrats and republicans who would conclude that I was simply too lazy to work hard for a living.

Somehow, it's okay (and legal) that wealthy individuals and corporations give politicians millions of dollars to support or combat this policy or that... but it is not okay when someone proposes raising the minimum wage to ten dollars an hour - even though this is still not a living wage. Somehow it is okay (and somehow legal) that our politicians spent billions of dollars bailing out the financial institutions that created the global economic crisis in the first place... but it is not okay that there are Americans on food stamps, or who need heating assistance, social security, medicaid....

As I near thirty years old now, I have yet to find a convincing reason... yet to find any true hope that things are changing, or will change for the better. It is hard to become motivated enough to do something about it. Mostly I'm tired. Mostly I'm sad. I cannot return to University next year because I am already too deeply in debt and there simply isn't enough to go around for people like me... I am so sick and humiliated after having begged at the financial aid office again - to no avail.

In short... the corporations have won. Real education is now beyond most of us, it is too expensive and requires too much concentration, time - and devotion from your average person who has to work full time just to survive. I'll likely spend the rest of my life working for rich people, and be expected to be grateful for the opportunity.

It could always be worse. I have parents who let me live with them. I have a job I enjoy, working for a radio station. I don't have health insurance - but I'm not sick or injured yet either. It has come to a sorry state of things when someone like me is one of the lucky ones. Or perhaps it has always been so, and my sheltered upbringing hid from me the reality of our society.

Let's not fool ourselves. We are not so civilized, not so socially advanced or humanitarian in comparison to Nations and governments of the past. Our democracy/republic is nothing more than a clever play performed by the elite of our society, who are truly not so different from feudal lords.

How do we create change? We could start by limiting the pay of politicians more severely, we could start by expecting them to live under the same conditions most of us have to. We could start by holding them accountable, with legal penalties for what is in truth, accepting bribes. I'm in favor of a drafted government, rather than one we vote to elect. Let's force these wealthy elites instead to live as their constituents do - and I'm fairly certain that life for all would improve.

Not that my opinion counts for anything of course... and for the most part, I'm too tired to care.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Fri May 3, 2013, 01:58 AM

136. There you go again, telling the truth in the General Denial forum.

 

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #136)

Fri May 3, 2013, 08:42 AM

147. Truth?

"There you go again, telling the truth in the General Denial forum"

This is nonsense, and it matters as much as the other nonsense that gets rec'd up around here. It must be nice to believe nonsense and then claim that other people are in "denial."





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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Fri May 3, 2013, 05:47 AM

139. Theres only so long the rubes will keep believing the GOP is the sole obstructor of the Peoples Will

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Fri May 3, 2013, 07:46 AM

142. Truth to Power

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Fri May 3, 2013, 08:41 AM

146. Kick and Rec

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Fri May 3, 2013, 08:49 AM

148. du rec. nt

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Fri May 3, 2013, 08:57 AM

149. Instead of vetoeing insider trading

Obama agreed to it. What more do you need to know.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Fri May 3, 2013, 09:02 AM

150. STRATFOR Wikileaks Dump showed extent of buy-partisan wars for profit...

War is big business. It's an insider's game. It's why we have so much secret government.

The last remaining enormous wads of cash in the Treasury are to be had for purchasing today's modern military industrial intel complex.



There's more than a trillion to be grabbed -- just for the Lockheed-Martin F-35.

Now keeping tabs on us -- people interested in using some of the nation's treasure for more peaceful purposes -- are for-hire spies. How do I know this? Julian Assange and Anonymous:



WikiLeaks' Stratfor Dump Lifts Lid on Intelligence-Industrial Complex

WikiLeaks' latest release, of hacked emails from Stratfor, shines light on the murky world of private intelligence-gathering


by Pratap Chatterjee
Published on Tuesday, February 28, 2012 by The Guardian/UK

What price bad intelligence? Some 5m internal emails from Stratfor, an Austin, Texas-based company that brands itself as a "global intelligence" provider, were recently obtained by Anonymous, the hacker collective, and are being released in batches by WikiLeaks, the whistleblowing website, starting Monday.

The most striking revelation from the latest disclosure is not simply the military-industrial complex that conspires to spy on citizens, activists and trouble-causers, but the extremely low quality of the information available to the highest bidder. Clients of the company include Dow Chemical, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman and Raytheon, as well as US government agencies like the Department of Homeland Security, the Defense Intelligence Agency and the Marines.

SNIP...

Assange notes that Stratfor is also seeking to profit directly from this information by partnering in an apparent hedge-fund venture with Shea Morenz, a former Goldman Sachs managing director. He points to an August 2011 document, marked "DO NOT SHARE OR DISCUSS", from Stratfor CEO George Friedman, which says:

"What StratCap will do is use our Stratfor's intelligence and analysis to trade in a range of geopolitical instruments, particularly government bonds, currencies and the like."


CONTINUED...

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/02/28-10?print



If it weren't for Anonymous and WikiLeaks, we probably wouldn't know about any of that.

It's no joke. It's no unimportant story. It's no boring history. Run by insiders, the secret government is key to making the system run on behalf of the few -- the 1-percent of 1-percent. Central to that is intelligence -- economically, politically and military useful information.

Which brings up the nation's purported free press, the only business mentioned by name in the entire United States Constitution, and how the organizations therein have miserably failed to feature prominently the sundry and myriad ways the insiders on Wall Street and their toadies in Washington do the work for Them.

The problem is systemic. The corruption is systemic.

Because it involves oversight of secret organizations -- the Pentagon, Homeland Security, CIA, etc -- Congress and the Administration often have no clue, let alone oversight, to what is happening because the corruption is marked "Top Secret."

Secret government also means We the People can't do our job as citizens, which is to hold them accountable and find the ones responsible in order to vote the crooks out and, it is hoped, the honest ones in.

With no citizen oversight, anything goes. And it doesn't stop.

Remember this fine fellow, US Navy fighter ace Randy "Duke" Cunningham?

Later a member of the United States Congress, he used his position to feather his nest, Big Time.



In his political career, Cunningham was a member of the Appropriations and Intelligence committees, and chaired the House Intelligence Subcommittee on Human Intelligence Analysis and Counterintelligence during the 109th Congress. He was considered a leading Republican expert on national security issues.

Currently, he's in USP Tuscon or another fine facility where he gets three squares, medical and dental.
He's due for release in a year or so. He'll be able to pick up his pension.

"The Duke Cunningham Act, also known as the Federal Pension Forfeiture Act, was introduced by U.S. Senator John F. Kerry in 2006. The bill would have denied pension benefits to any members of Congress convicted of bribery, conspiracy or perjury. The bill died in committee. (Source: The Press Enterprise)


Duke wasn't alone. He really was just one snake in a long line of snakes. Remember Dusty Foggo, Number 3 at CIA and close associate of CIA Director and former Congressman Porter Goss? Swells sitting atop the peak of political and military secrecy and power.

Unfortunately, when it comes to modern governance, no oversight means means the insiders are getting away with murder, and warmongering and treason and all the power that they bring. Appointed pretzeldent George W Bush on Valentine's Day 2007 put it in words: "Money trumps peace."



Secret government warmongering and war profiteering are systemic. Secret government is rotten to the core. What's more, in a democracy that once really was land of the free and home of the brave, secret government poses the greatest threat to true national security.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Fri May 3, 2013, 10:43 AM

154. K & R nt

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