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Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:29 AM

NPR: No law mandates reading Miranda rights

However, any info gained before reading rights will likely be inadmissible at trial.

They were interviewing a law professor named Kermit Roosevelt.

20 replies, 1622 views

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Arrow 20 replies Author Time Post
Reply NPR: No law mandates reading Miranda rights (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 OP
pipoman Apr 2013 #1
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2013 #2
MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 #3
Brother Buzz Apr 2013 #5
sofa king Apr 2013 #12
Brother Buzz Apr 2013 #14
sofa king Apr 2013 #20
longship Apr 2013 #4
BlueStreak Apr 2013 #8
graham4anything Apr 2013 #6
Gman Apr 2013 #7
BlueStreak Apr 2013 #9
Gman Apr 2013 #11
HiPointDem Apr 2013 #16
Gman Apr 2013 #19
Deep13 Apr 2013 #10
HiPointDem Apr 2013 #15
HiPointDem Apr 2013 #17
Deep13 Apr 2013 #18
HiPointDem Apr 2013 #13

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:39 AM

1. Miranda vs. AZ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_v._Arizona

Miranda is case law...meaning that a high court decision set precedent then there are usually ancillary cases defining the issue. Choice is case law too..Roe vs. Wade..Case law is more ambiguous than statutory law, thus the ancillary cases..

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:42 AM

2. The name, I need to steal it for fiction

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:43 AM

3. If you look it up, you'll find he's not the first one... Nt

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:48 AM

5. Kermit Roosevelt III is the great-great-grandson of Theodore Roosevelt

May not be well received well in fiction

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Response to Brother Buzz (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 01:43 AM

12. Not well received among Iranians, either.

Thanks to Kermit's old man, Kermit Jr., who oversaw the knockover of the Iranian government...

... And incidentally supplied the textbook example for bemildred's definition of "blowback."


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Response to sofa king (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 02:05 AM

14. That Kermit must be the one that triggered my memory

Side note: Kermit Roosevelt Jr. and Norman Schwarzkopf's father were tight.

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Response to Brother Buzz (Reply #14)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 11:55 AM

20. Yep, the original Stormin' Norman.

He had been an important investigator in the Lindbergh Baby Kidnapping, did a radio show for awhile, then during WWII helped to found and train the Iranian police force.

Then Kermit came around and asked for his help in the coup against Mossadeqh, which Norman did by utilizing his former ties to the police. Then he went on to re-found and re-train the police in a much more Gestapo style, and wound up creating one of the most blooodthirsty, ruthless, hated and fearsome secret police agencies in history, SAVAK.

It was amusing to see Stormin' Norman Jr. dance around those facts whenever he discussed the Middle East. I'm not sure if he ever acknowledged his father's actions in public; if he did I never saw it, and thus most of what he said on the subject was the continuation of a deception being played upon the American people.

The important thing to remember, any of you who find this new and historically interesting, is that most Iranians know all of this unacknowledged section of American history by heart. That's the only reason they need to hate us, and never forgive us, though we have provided them other reasons since. Any foreign policy approach to Iran that ignores this reality, as DimSon's did, is doomed to failure.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:43 AM

4. Okay, but the argument is now moot.

Does anybody think that any testimony he gave before he was Mirandized today will make any difference, or even be necessary to determine this guy's guilt?

It's moot. And law enforcement did the right thing. They advised him of his rights as soon as was practical. Given he was apparently full of bullet wounds and in serious condition, I am satisfied in spite of any apprehensions i had the other night.

I am okay with this. His Constitutional rights are intact, as they should be.

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Response to longship (Reply #4)


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:49 AM

6. He is guilty. I am Juror #8. Sentence To the Max.No hateperp can tear down Fenway's wall.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 01:06 AM

7. Technically, not true

Since the constitution, the law of the land, has been interpreted as mandating the reading of rights.

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Response to Gman (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 01:17 AM

9. Exactly. It is abundantly clear that everybody has a right to counsel.

The SCOTUS has been asked to clarify a whole bunch of boundary conditions, and what it comes down to is that poverty is not an acceptable reason to deny counsel, so the people have to pay for competent counsel if the accused cannot afford that. And as far as "reading the rights", that simply follows from the right itself. It was an issue because cops would try everything to NOT give their prisoners the right of counsel, so the SCOTUS wisely said, "It is a fundamental right, and you have to tell them it is their right before you interrogate them."

And then somebody brought up the exception to the rule, which is basically, "if you know the suspect has put snakes on a plane, venomous snakes that will kill people on that plane, can you do an immediate interrogation to find out WHICH plane." And the SCOTUS wisely said that was a reasonable exception -- in the case of IMMINENT danger to the public or police officers. But that's it. There aren't any other exceptions.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 01:29 AM

11. If the truth be known, Ernesto Miranda was a scumbag

he murdered a 17 year old girl. He was stabbed to death in, IIRC, an argument over a dice game after he was reconvicted, and released from prison. He used to charge cops to autograph their Miranda rights cards.

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Response to Gman (Reply #11)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 02:34 AM

16. whether he was or not, so what?

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #16)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 09:22 AM

19. For better or worse

That's how our laws are. It took a scumbag to make authorities do what's necessary to protect the rights of many others who are often good people.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 01:24 AM

10. Kermit Roosevelt?

I wonder if he is related to the Kermit Roosevelt that orchestrated the CIA overthrow of Iran's democratic government in 1953.

Anyway, he's right. Miranda is a rule of evidence, not a rule of law.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 02:16 AM

15. he's a grandson of the operation ajax guy, who was the grandson of TR. Whose family's

 

intelligence connections go back to this guy:

James Dunwoody Bulloch (25 June 1823 – 7 January 1901) was the Confederate States of America's chief foreign agent in Great Britain during the American Civil War. He was the half-brother of a distinguished Confederate naval officer, Irvine Stephens Bulloch and of Martha "Mittie" Bulloch. Mittie was the wife of Theodore Roosevelt, Sr., mother of future U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt, Jr. and Elliott Roosevelt, and the paternal grandmother of Eleanor Roosevelt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dunwoody_Bulloch


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Roosevelt_III

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 02:35 AM

17. it's a constitutional right, and the constitution and SC interpretations of it are part of the law.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #17)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 04:51 AM

18. Freedom from self-incrimination is a Constitutional right.

Miranda is a judicially created rule designed to enforce the ban on coerced confessions. Again, it is a rule of evidence (failure to Mirandize excludes a confession resulting from custodial interrogation). If the police have no questions for an arrested suspect, there is no need for Miranda warnings. If the police are asking questions of a person free to leave, there is no need for a Miranda warning. If the police and DA has no intention of using the answers to questions as evidence in court, there is no need to Mirandize. I did this shit for eight years and I know what I'm talking about.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Apr 23, 2013, 01:59 AM

13. a law professor named kermit roosevelt? descendant of teddy.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Roosevelt_III

intelligence family.

grandson of:

Kermit "Kim" Roosevelt, Jr. (February 16, 1916 – June 8, 2000), was a political action officer of the Central Intelligence Agency's (CIA) Directorate of Plans who coordinated the Operation Ajax, which aimed to orchestrate a coup d'état against Iran's prime minister, Mohammed Mosaddeq, and return Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran, to Iran's Peacock Throne in August 1953. He was also the grandson of US president Theodore Roosevelt.


His father is reportedly also a dc lawyer.

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