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Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:01 AM

OWS committed suicide....

It was a long slow death that started when they refused to identify leaders who people could have coalesced around, and ended when after 4 months, they still had moved pass,the 'sitting around in parks' stage of their 'movement. They had no plan for how to capitalize on the police forcing them out. That was evident after the Zuccatti park eviction caused the orginal group to shrivel up.

It's a shame. The occupy movement could have been so much more, if only they had listened in the beginning when people told the, that there message was convoluted and you can't base a nationwide movement around no personality.

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Reply OWS committed suicide.... (Original post)
Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 OP
salin Feb 2012 #1
Swede Feb 2012 #2
Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 #6
Warren Stupidity Feb 2012 #3
TBF Feb 2012 #91
morningfog Feb 2012 #4
MineralMan Feb 2012 #5
mmonk Feb 2012 #7
Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 #9
mmonk Feb 2012 #14
Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 #22
mmonk Feb 2012 #32
morningfog Feb 2012 #38
Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #57
Lucky Luciano Feb 2012 #121
RKP5637 Feb 2012 #199
Marr Feb 2012 #178
Safetykitten Feb 2012 #8
Thaddeus Kosciuszko Feb 2012 #10
xchrom Feb 2012 #11
LiberalEsto Feb 2012 #12
Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 #18
LiberalEsto Feb 2012 #50
Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 #71
randome Feb 2012 #24
Thaddeus Kosciuszko Feb 2012 #29
Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #108
BeFree Feb 2012 #201
Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #211
vaberella Feb 2012 #13
Vanje Feb 2012 #53
vaberella Feb 2012 #96
Cali_Democrat Feb 2012 #125
vaberella Feb 2012 #217
LiberalLovinLug Feb 2012 #146
vaberella Feb 2012 #218
Starry Messenger Feb 2012 #15
Fumesucker Feb 2012 #16
ScreamingMeemie Feb 2012 #42
Life Long Dem Feb 2012 #17
Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 #21
Life Long Dem Feb 2012 #26
Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 #30
Life Long Dem Feb 2012 #35
think Feb 2012 #37
SammyWinstonJack Feb 2012 #46
Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #115
think Feb 2012 #127
Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #163
Mosaic Feb 2012 #198
Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #210
kenfrequed Feb 2012 #225
JHB Feb 2012 #48
WilliamPitt Feb 2012 #111
Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 #118
Blue_In_AK Feb 2012 #172
hack89 Feb 2012 #206
roody Feb 2012 #19
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demmiblue Feb 2012 #20
hobbit709 Feb 2012 #23
99Forever Feb 2012 #25
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randome Feb 2012 #40
Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 #51
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a simple pattern Feb 2012 #151
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think Feb 2012 #79
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Starry Messenger Feb 2012 #84
randome Feb 2012 #85
think Feb 2012 #89
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Rex Feb 2012 #109
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L0oniX Feb 2012 #113
QC Feb 2012 #190
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DURHAM D Feb 2012 #86
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Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 #88
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RZM Feb 2012 #90
inna Feb 2012 #93
greytdemocrat Feb 2012 #97
aquart Feb 2012 #103
The Doctor. Feb 2012 #143
JHB Feb 2012 #148
LiberalEsto Feb 2012 #167
Aerows Feb 2012 #98
socialist_n_TN Feb 2012 #99
RetroLounge Feb 2012 #101
aquart Feb 2012 #102
bvar22 Feb 2012 #105
Rex Feb 2012 #107
whatchamacallit Feb 2012 #141
tledford Feb 2012 #169
randome Feb 2012 #171
Rex Feb 2012 #106
Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 #110
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devilgrrl Feb 2012 #114
L0oniX Feb 2012 #116
Cleita Feb 2012 #117
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Cleita Feb 2012 #123
randome Feb 2012 #124
Cleita Feb 2012 #130
Mosaic Feb 2012 #203
Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 #131
Cleita Feb 2012 #134
LiberalEsto Feb 2012 #170
Warren Stupidity Feb 2012 #177
Cali_Democrat Feb 2012 #126
Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 #135
The Doctor. Feb 2012 #138
randome Feb 2012 #145
The Doctor. Feb 2012 #160
LiberalLovinLug Feb 2012 #164
randome Feb 2012 #168
RKP5637 Feb 2012 #128
randome Feb 2012 #129
RKP5637 Feb 2012 #189
randome Feb 2012 #194
RKP5637 Feb 2012 #195
tritsofme Feb 2012 #132
think Feb 2012 #140
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think Feb 2012 #152
Mosaic Feb 2012 #204
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The Doctor. Feb 2012 #137
The Midway Rebel Feb 2012 #153
think Feb 2012 #158
pa28 Feb 2012 #154
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think Feb 2012 #159
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whatchamacallit Feb 2012 #179
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girl gone mad Feb 2012 #187
Blue_In_AK Feb 2012 #183
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unionworks Feb 2012 #208
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Joe the Revelator Feb 2012 #227

Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:02 AM

1. I am not so sure

that it is time for an obit just yet.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:02 AM

2. Joe,the OWS took a break during winter.

It's waking up again.

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Response to Swede (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:04 AM

6. I thought the plan was to weather the winter with n interruption.....

I'd love to be proved wrong, id love to see a leaner, more focused movement start this spring, but that would require more coordination then OWS, in it's current form, is capable of.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:03 AM

3. Thank you for your concern.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 12:12 PM

91. +1 nt

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:04 AM

4. You are quite wrong on that.

Occupy is holding regular events, free classes and actions in cities across the country. It is very much alive as a movement, growing and evolving.

A singular message and national leader would have destroyed them for sure. See this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002268300

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:04 AM

5. A glutton for punishment, eh?

Seriously, I don't think OWS should be eulogized until Spring arrives. If it doesn't revive in the spring, then you might be correct. I don't have a clue whether OWS will continue to be a force in politics or not. We shall see.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:05 AM

7. For the millionth time, we are not dead.

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Response to mmonk (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:06 AM

9. A leader emerges...

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:09 AM

14. There are leaders and organizers at various locales.

While things are done on a concensus basis in each occupy, the organizers are still going strong.

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Response to mmonk (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:15 AM

22. That was another nail in the coffin...

Consensus. Silly idea that allowed the movement to be coopted by anyone with an agenda and enough people.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:21 AM

32. Then why do we still have ongoing actions? There is no nail and there is no coffin.

As long as big money controls the system and both parties, we will not die.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:24 AM

38. You still don't get it. A single issue and a leader would have ended it long ago.

Occupy continues with weekly, often daily actions, community classes and campaigns. They are still very active in local cities and towns making a real difference in people's lives.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #38)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:34 AM

57. You're exactly right. Allow me to re-post a little essay of mine:

How can we build an equitable society that lasts longer than the New Deal did?

I think the challenges of finding a lasting remedy for the problems of our social structure lie beyond the scope of the doctrines of socialism, liberalism, or any other political "fix." Almost any hierarchy seems to become dominated by power-junkies, regardless of their nominal ideology. Witness the history of the Soviet Union, or of China. No matter how democratic and humanistic Marx might have been, those acting in his name have often perverted ins teachings.

Autocrats of all stripes love centralization, at least up to the level just beneath them, and seek to pull power away from the people and political structures under them.

In too many cases, the following model applies:

Marx:Marxists::Christ:Christians

I have been preaching the virtues of leaderless organizations here, and have been watching the worldwide popular movements of the past year. What I see is a global populace using new tools such as the social media in uniting, informing itself, and initiating a loosely coordinated series of actions. There is no strongly hierarchical organization, there are no permanent leaders, but there is a group decision-making process. There is planning. People see what needs to be done, and do it, be it setting up an aid station, distributing food, or cleaning up litter.

I think we are nowhere near discovering the potential power that springs from universal one-to-many communication, in which any person with an idea can communicate it to others, and watch it go viral if people start finding merit in it. In fact, the whole movement rests largely upon this power.

Socialism to me means an equitable distribution of both goods and power. In the past, attempts to enact socialist policies have always relied upon centralized power in the hands of a few leaders--in other words, a power structure not too different from those of the capitalist countries. Both the capitalist and socialist power structures severely limit the freedom of the ordinary person.

The leaderless direct democracy exists in direct contradistinction to the hierarchical model of organization that has been typical of human societies for the past several thousand years.

In fact, I think that the new leaderless organizations may best be compared to a number of pre-agricultural societies, such as those of the woodland Indians of North America. Among many of these tribes, the leaders had no institutional power beyond that of persuasion. A given person might develop a reputation as a good leader of war parties, and people might look to him when it came time to raid an enemy. He would lay out his scheme for battle and everyone would talk about it, making modifications based on suggestions from the group members. If you didn't like the resulting plan, you were free to express your differences, and, ultimately, you were free to go your own way if you could not resolve those differences. Leadership was not a paid position. A good leader was simply someone who could get most people to accept his ideas. In daily life, he lived in the same way as everyone else, engaging in the same economic activities and suffering the same hardships.

Historically, that sort of direct participatory democracy could only function in small groups because people needed to meet face-to-face. The advent of agriculture pretty much destroyed this type of democracy, for two reasons, both related to the increased availability of food. First, the population increased beyond a size that could comfortably meet and confer, and (much more importantly), the extra food meant that not everyone had to spend all their time trying to feed themselves, so some leisure time became available. Priesthoods and monarchies arose based on the new infrastructure. The priests specialized in acquiring (real or imagined) knowledge, and the monarchs specialized in building power structures and regulating the lives of their subjects. Sometimes the priests and rulers were one and the same, and sometimes the roles were separated, but they always stood in alliance, reinforcing and checking each other's power.

Modern government descends from the social structures and social assumptions that arose with the advent of agriculture. All such governments are hierarchical in nature, and tend to be marked by imbalances in information flow. That is, the rulers and priests controlled access to information through one-to-many communication devices, while the peasantry were limited to (at most) one-to-one (or at best, one-to-a-few) communication with each other, and only very limited forms of communication with their rulers and priests.

The Industrial Revolution that began in the 18th Century is often cited as the next phase after the Era of Agriculture. I think this is a somewhat overblown notion because while the advent of the machine did shift power balances around somewhat among the ruling classes, it did not fundamentally change the hierarchical, centralized nature of social organization--except, in some ways, to facilitate its development and amplify its scale. The same pattern of one-to-many communication for the powerful and one-to-one communication for the masses persisted.

Only now, in the Information Age, is this ancient model starting to break up.

I see the Occupy movement as the first, embryonic stirrings of a totally new mode of social organization that will bring global changes to the species that are at least as significant as the changes that occurred with the Agricultural Revolution.

I believe that the advent of mass one-to-many communication in the hands of the people will permit us to recapture the advantages of tribal self-government, to break down the walls of hierarchy, and institute a species-wide, totally democratic network of self-governance unlike anything the world has ever seen.


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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #57)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:12 PM

121. I have always told my extreme leftist mother that

communism is doomed from the outset since the leaders of the party will be corrupted by power just as much as the capitalists get corrupted. The ambitious people will try to become communist party leaders instead of Wall Street financiers or hedge fund managers etc.

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Response to Lucky Luciano (Reply #121)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 07:17 PM

199. Yep, we've seen many examples of this in history, that '-isms' of

whichever flavor are eventually doomed and corrupted by power. ... and with the power of money as we see in our country now. The power hungry would just shift their ambitions to whatever the new '-ism' was.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 03:50 PM

178. Apparently not. The establishment Democrats couldn't do it.

And I can't imagine any other single group with more reason and resources to make the attempt.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:05 AM

8. Hardly.

 

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:06 AM

10. Committing...

 

It's not too late for a well-trained Border Collie, to herd Black Sheep.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:07 AM

11. ...

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:08 AM

12. The corporate MEDIA has painted OWS as having no clear message

but the message is perfectly obvious to me.

Restrict the excessive power of the corporations and the wealthy.

Their strategy of not having chosen leaders is perfectly reasonable. It keeps the cops, politicians and the corporate media from targeting individuals.

Occupy is alive and well and growing, no matter what the naysayers assume.

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Response to LiberalEsto (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:11 AM

18. But how? There was never a coherent manifesto of demands....and by not having leaders....

When members of the movement do idiotic things like steal and burn a flag or, hit a cop n the head with a brick, there is no personality available to disown those actions and to assure the public that OWS wasn't just made up of crazy kids looking to get into a little anarchy.

No real leadership killed the movement before it even started.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:32 AM

50. Since when is it a requirement of a movement to write a manifesto?

I thought their concerns were voiced clearly enough for any person of reasonable intelligence.

The corporate media purposely chose to obfuscate them.

As far as stealing and burning the flag, the photos clearly showed that the people doing it covered most of their faces with bandannas. I STRONGLY doubt they were members of OWS. I suspect they were paid trolls.

I don't know any details about the brick incident, but I suspect the thrower could have been another hired troll. It just doesn't sound like something that anyone I know in OWS would do. The vast majority of OWS participants would refuse to tolerate it. Same with the flag burning.

I should also add that the U.S. Capitol police are some of the most vicious cops around. I've seen them ride their horses right into and onto demonstrators and beat people at random since the Vietnam War days. I live right outside DC and I have seen this time and again. I would not attempt to tangle with them for anything.

The corporate media shows the world what it WANTS the world to see.

I remember going to a very large, very peaceful antiwar demonstration in New York's Central Park in the early 1970s. While leaving this very peaceful demonstration, I stopped and watched an ABC News crew filming several actors having a staged fight. The actors, unlike the majority of real demonstrators, were dressed like thugs. There was NOTHING like this in the real demonstration, it was just the media's intention to destroy the peace movement's credibility by depicting them as a bunch of dirty violent hippie thugs.

Witnessing that destroyed any faith that I'd once had in major media -- and I'll have you know that I spent more than 25 years as a print journalist, including more than a decade at one of the larger newspapers in the US.

People should not make assumptions based on what they see on TV.

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Response to LiberalEsto (Reply #50)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:44 AM

71. This is my favorite part, when all the bad done in the name of OWS is blamed on..

Hired agitators. Let's ignore the fact that OWS members have been covering their faces since inception to protect against pepper spray and the fact that a real living person was seriously injured when he got hit in the head with a brick, because what we got her is a conspiracy!

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Response to LiberalEsto (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:16 AM

24. And what about the liberal media?

Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Rachel Maddow? I have yet to see anyone address why they mention OWS only in passing.

Without clear leadership or consistent messaging, all OWS seems to be concerned with these days is fighting the cops and proving their own relevance.

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Response to LiberalEsto (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:19 AM

29. "The corporate MEDIA has painted OWS as having no clear message."

 

Restrict, is not a clear message.

Their strategy of not having chosen leaders is perfectly reasonable.

However, your view of leaders is not. Leaders are not chosen--they lead.

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Response to LiberalEsto (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:00 PM

108. "Restrict the excessive power of the corporations and the wealthy. "

 

How?

Specifically.

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Response to Kellerfeller (Reply #108)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 07:24 PM

201. How to restrict the excessive power?

Can hardly believe anyone has to say this, but what the hey.....

We the People will force our government to write laws that restrict the excessive power.

Until now, before Occupy got going, the People were lead astray by the corrupt politicians and the M$M. Now we have come together, and throwing off the shackles which bound us to our seats, are joining together to speak with one united voice.

And that voice is saying: You want to remain an elected leader in this country? Then you will begin listening to the 99% and tell the 1% to sit down and shut up.

The congress will do our bidding because they know if they don't they will be looking for a job real soon.

You really should join us. Its fun!

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Response to BeFree (Reply #201)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:28 PM

211. "We the People will force our government to write laws"

 

You do realize that "We the People" are (or are alt least supposed to be) the gov't.

Why are you expecting someone else to write the laws?

Do you not know what laws you want written?

If not, how are those mysterious people in "our gov't" going to know what laws you want?

That's why I asked "Specifically". You just gave vague generalities.

So I'll ask again: Specifically how do you ""Restrict the excessive power of the corporations and the wealthy. "?

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:08 AM

13. Well they never really had my support to begin with.

I'm with the 99% not OWS.

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Response to vaberella (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:32 AM

53. Of course OWS never had your support.

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Response to Vanje (Reply #53)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 12:22 PM

96. Cryptic much...what's your point?! n/t

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Response to vaberella (Reply #96)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:20 PM

125. I don't think you had to tell us that it never had your support

You're stating the obvious.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #125)

Mon Feb 6, 2012, 07:16 AM

217. Why didn't I have to say it? I think I can say what I want if it's on topic.

Most others are saying how much they support it or think it's worthwhile and so on and so forth. I don't see how that's even stating the obvious since I never stated I didn't support it before hand. I could have been one of the supporters or those who think it's alive.

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Response to vaberella (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 02:05 PM

146. Let others do the fighting for you?

How nice.

that's almost the same as "Get your government hands off of my Medicare!"

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #146)

Mon Feb 6, 2012, 07:20 AM

218. Aye? Do you know me or what I'm about?

I think not. I never knew that I had to support every group that has come out. OWS in New York I support---- but the faction as a whole. Nope. I think it's my right and I see no where in my post that implies anything you've interpreted. But it's whatever. I'm not a follower. I believe in what I believe in. If I don't agree with something. I don't I don't see how that even suggests anything about "Get your government hands off my medicare."

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:10 AM

16. Remember "The Dean Scream"?

He allowed himself to get a little enthusiastic one time with the cameras rolling and it was used to bludgeon his candidacy.

Think of that times infinity, that's what would be launched at any OWS "leader" who was naive enough to identify herself.



ETA: It's also instructive to look at what happened to a twelve year old kid that ran afoul of the M$M smear machine.. Graeme Frost.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:28 AM

42. Thank you for reposting the Frost family story.

We can't ever forget how the Republicans act in these situations.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:10 AM

17. Said the man in the dead of winter.

 

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:12 AM

21. The warmest winter in decades, when this fall OWS promised to occupy Zuccatti park...

..no matter the weather.. That worked out awesomely.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:18 AM

26. Still cold. And still winter.

 

It's 39 degrees right now in NYC. Last night was 32 degrees, that's freezing out.

They all should go for a swim!

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:20 AM

30. If 32 degrees ran them indoors, the the rw was right...

They were just a bunch of punk kids who were looking for a party instead of real change.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:22 AM

35. Ahhh... they want to live another day to fight.

 

You obviously don't consider life and death into any equation.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:24 AM

37. Harsh words for an arm chair quarterback /nt

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Response to think (Reply #37)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:29 AM

46. +1

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Response to think (Reply #37)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:07 PM

115. Unlike the OWS group, Joe didn't claim to be

 

the "real" quarterback.

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Response to Kellerfeller (Reply #115)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:24 PM

127. 99% is a fairly ambiguous term but you can pigeon hole if you must

The OP is denigrating a movement for being less active in winter while saying so from the comfort of the indoors.

Fair enough?

It is one thing to disagree with OWS tactics, actions, and/or goals and another thing entirely to belittle those who are making an effort to call out the corruption on Wall Street that is going unchecked by our government.

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Response to think (Reply #127)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 02:45 PM

163. I believe his point is that

 

they claimed they were going to go strong through the winter..and didn't.

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Response to Kellerfeller (Reply #163)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 07:13 PM

198. According to the gopher

We're only 6 weeks from Spring, and the rebirth of Occupy/99%. Occupy has done a lot we should be thankful for instead of listening to idiots like Bill Mahr criticsize something they really don't understand. Of course the 1% media and ruling class feel threatened, but it was they who boiled the frogs, us, in a pot for 30 years of class warfare. We're in a second gilded age, unless you are not a real Democrat, you should support this movement with all your heart, it may be the best last chance we get.

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Response to Mosaic (Reply #198)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:21 PM

210. That's stupid

 

Unless you really believe that someone cannot support an idea or goal and still think that some people are wrong in their method of trying to reach that goal.

Or do you think that everyone has to support your methods in order to also support your end goal.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

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Response to Mosaic (Reply #198)

Mon Feb 6, 2012, 11:21 AM

225. OWS can do no right

Either they are bums without jobs if they linger too long and cause trouble or they are not committed enough for taking time off during snow storms and are all fair weather. There is no winning for OWS in some peoples eyes. Bill Maher was just being a jerk, but there are people that front the argument he did with every ounce of venom they can.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:30 AM

48. Yeah, we know how awesomely effective doing nothing but camping in a park is.

So the real change will come about by just sitting in the park partying? Awesome! Let's all go to your park so you can show us all how to do it the right way!

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:01 PM

111. (facepalm)

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #111)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:08 PM

118. Thanks for the input...

Is that not what the rw said they were going to do? Personally, I don't believe the 'they just went inside while it was cold meme' but if that's the excuse that some here want to make, then they need to answer how that doesn't fit into the rw prediction for OWS.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #118)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 03:14 PM

172. For what it's worth,

Occupy Fairbanks is still camping out in the cold, despite it being -40 up there. You can't generalize from a few Occupy groups to the entire movement. Occupy Anchorage is still having weekly general assemblies and joining various community protests that come up -- marching on picket lines on behalf of the hotel workers at the Sheraton and Hilton, circulating petitions on local issues, especially an equal rights referendum for GLBT that's coming up for a vote in April, volunteering and many other local activities. One occupier I know here gives a weekly speech at our Town Square park whether anyone besides me is there or not. Protesters have been occupying our Municipal Assembly meetings even.

Occupy can mean many things to many different people, but it's far from dead.

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 09:50 PM

206. Russians are protesting in minus 20 degrees

looks like OWS are a bunch of pussies.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:11 AM

19. Very doubtful...

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:15 AM

23. Just paraphrase Mark Twain's comment to OWS.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:17 AM

25. Yeah Joe...

.. you run with that.

Faux Snooze says so..

.. so it must be true.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"





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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:18 AM

27. You and the corpo media wish

For example, occupy San diego held a major event yesterday, not that channel seven, NBC San Diego, two blocks from, could be bothered. They will be holding a class today, and another major event for all so cal occupies next week.

That is not a dead movement.

But the corporate media goes out of its way... In fact the smallers ones too. There is a certain level of exhaustion and "the old story" creeping in.

But dead, hardly.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:25 AM

40. So where are the liberal media on these events?

Jon Stewart? Stephen Colbert? Rachel Maddow? Keith Olberman? They don't seem to think this is as important as you WANT it to be.

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Response to randome (Reply #40)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:32 AM

51. That's a key point. So many here WANT OWS to be relevant that they give it a pass

On its quite obvious shortcomings.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:36 AM

58. We all want something larger than ourselves to believe in.

It's human nature. A lot of people latched onto OWS when it first started because it had such potential.

If 'evolving' is still part of the equation, people have got to understand that leadership and consistent messaging MUST be part of it.

Now there are a hundred OWS groups with about seventy different messages. So much noise, no one can hear what they are saying any longer.

'Changing the conversation' was a good start. But after six months, that's all OWS stands for?

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Response to randome (Reply #40)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 06:25 PM

191. Democracy Now has been covering OWS well, since the first.

Its on cable or the internet.
Hell its on the radio twice a day here in the reddest red state.

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Response to Vanje (Reply #191)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 06:43 PM

192. I don't think they have much reach, though, do they?

Not many listen to radio any more. And it still doesn't explain why the 'heavy hitters' of Stewart, Colbert, Maddow, etc. don't cover it more.

I know it's been said that they have to toe the line in regards to their corporations' interests but I don't think that's the full story.

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Response to randome (Reply #192)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 07:22 PM

200. The media has been hiding info for years

These 'liberals' you mention will not move the country to the left. They are centrists who play lefties to placate the masses. You really should know that by now. Current and Msnbc are clever in this way, watch the ties and the ads for clues. They sold out their true beliefs long ago for their cushy job, and fun 'play DC gossip job all day'.

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Response to randome (Reply #192)

Mon Feb 6, 2012, 10:42 AM

222. Its on radio, cable , and always online

Democracy Now is my main news source, and I am as rural as can be.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:32 AM

55. I am curious--why are you so concerned about "the corpo media wish?"

 

Are you really interested in attracting people who acquire their knowledge from this provider?

Would You Expect Much Help?

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Response to Thaddeus Kosciuszko (Reply #55)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:11 PM

120. ????????????

Whatever dude.. Whoossshhh!!!!

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #120)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:15 PM

122. "Whoossshhh!!!!"

 

The resonance moving air and empty thoughts...

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Response to Thaddeus Kosciuszko (Reply #122)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:36 PM

133. I stated a fact, the press moved on

Live with it or not, I really could give two shits about it.

And the elite (the media is part of it) wish occupy was indeed dead.

Try this, find local camp and find out just how dead they are. I dare you. For that matter the same goes for each and every person claiming them are dead.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #133)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 02:18 PM

155. Fact: "The Press Moved On"

 

I am not entirely confident that I understand what you mean; however, if they do not "press" or "move" on me, I can live with whatever "the press" "moves on."

You will not find words written by me "wishing" for, or declaring the movement "dead." However, you will surely find words expressing skepticism with respect to the tactics employed by individuals who lack forethought and wisdom.

To persevere, moral legitimacy must be established and maintained at all costs.

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Response to Thaddeus Kosciuszko (Reply #155)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 03:18 PM

174. Cross roads, I will grant you that

But all social justice movements find themselves there... This too shall pass and people here will continue to declare it dead...like the women's movement before it, or labor, or civil right...well you get the picture.

Also the media is seldom friendly to grass roots movements. Huge clue as to why tea party was not (two weeks in) a grass root movement.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:19 AM

28. I don't think it is dead. But it will have move beyond the occupation phase

and expand its tactical playbook. it will also require some leadership and discipline to prevent the flag burners and rock throwers from being distractions. If you are right and it is dead then it has already done something nobody else has done which is make income inequality an issue in the msm.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:20 AM

31. Now that Koch industries has pulled their funding OWS is toast...

Last edited Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:55 AM - Edit history (1)

Adding sarcasm balloons. My apologies for those that thought I was serious.

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Response to think (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:36 AM

60. I have NO idea what the purpose of this comment is

Could you please explain?

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Response to LiberalEsto (Reply #60)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:41 AM

67. Sorry. I was being sarcastic. Koch Industries bought and paid for the Tea Party

And with the help of Faux News and other unknown wealthy entities they helped shape the positive image of the Tea Party and made sure it was not tarnished.

OWS gets very little support especially from the 1% and the media which are actively working to discredit OWS and paint them in as horrid an unflattering light as possible.

The disparity between $$ support and propaganda support is ENORMOUS.

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Response to think (Reply #67)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:43 AM

70. thank you, think!

This thread is so trollish that I've having a hard time telling the pros from the cons.

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Response to LiberalEsto (Reply #70)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:46 AM

73. I should have floated some sarcasm balloons. Will do next time ;)

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Response to think (Reply #67)

Mon Feb 6, 2012, 11:25 AM

226. yup and amazingly

Despite having very few events that gets much past the 100 person marker the media continues to treat them with absurd levels of relevence and continues to give them seperate responses to the state of the union address.

And rather than people here all boosting for OWS we have a clutch of anti-OWS sorts here constantly deriding, scorning, and dismissing them. (though usually dismissals are done quietly)

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:21 AM

33. Can someone explain this premature wailing to me?

Frankly I'd be more worried if OWS was still doing exactly the same things as back in October.

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Response to JHB (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:23 AM

36. Yes because being shut down and made irrevalent is a much better outcome.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:33 AM

56. Bookmarking

If we never hear from OWS again, or from people who were motivated by it, I'll give you my apologies for questioning your insightful analysis. Big plate of crow, smothered in "I was a jackass" sauce.

Will you do the same if they or their direct legacy do surface again?

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Response to JHB (Reply #56)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:48 AM

75. They will surface into election 12, embarrassing the left and going into their death spiral.

I don't disagree with that.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #75)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:39 PM

136. This is so revealing of your true intentions

It's not even funny.



This message brought to you by a neo-liberal member of the right wing.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #136)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 02:09 PM

150. If I'm a member of the right wing....

....then you are a respected journalist. I think we know, deep in our hearts, that neither of those accusations are true.

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #150)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 02:19 PM

156. LOL!

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Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #150)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 03:14 PM

173. Your post hails from the neo lib corner of the DNC

That be right wing.

Sorry to burst that bubble.

Have a good day with your delusion that it is dead ok.

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