HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Can we at least agree on ...

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:53 AM

Can we at least agree on this now?

Between election cycles, as activists our primary role is to advocate and fight for good progressive policies, not to cheer lead for "good" political leaders. Good leaders can make wrong decisions and still, for the most part, be good leaders. Good citizens don't assume that good leaders will always get it right on each and every issue. Ultimately our lives are on the line with every compromise. It makes no more sense for us to silently accept the leadership of a "good" politician than it does for us to silently accept the treatment plan suggested by a "good" physician. A solution that seemingly makes sense from a leader's perspective, let's say a "Chained-CPI" for example, won't always make sense from ours. Can we agree that "Question Authority" still makes sense, regardless of who is the authority?

27 replies, 2405 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 27 replies Author Time Post
Reply Can we at least agree on this now? (Original post)
Tom Rinaldo Apr 2013 OP
Sekhmets Daughter Apr 2013 #1
Bonobo Apr 2013 #2
Tom Rinaldo Apr 2013 #5
rhett o rick Apr 2013 #3
n2doc Apr 2013 #4
savebigbird Apr 2013 #20
sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #6
Doctor_J Apr 2013 #8
Doctor_J Apr 2013 #7
zeemike Apr 2013 #16
caseymoz Apr 2013 #9
Scuba Apr 2013 #10
Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2013 #11
aggiesal Apr 2013 #12
bigtree Apr 2013 #13
joanbarnes Apr 2013 #14
forestpath Apr 2013 #15
el_bryanto Apr 2013 #17
Hell Hath No Fury Apr 2013 #18
JDPriestly Apr 2013 #19
Jakes Progress Apr 2013 #21
DFW Apr 2013 #22
vduhr Apr 2013 #23
Tom Rinaldo Apr 2013 #24
noiretextatique Apr 2013 #25
limpyhobbler Apr 2013 #26
Babel_17 Apr 2013 #27

Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:05 AM

1. Absolutely!

I am very tired of the "my leader...right or wrong" attitude so many have adopted. While it served its purpose during the first term, there is no point in sticking with it now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:10 AM

2. Tom, I cannot agree with you more.

The cult of personality is a dangerous thing as is blind loyalty to the name of a party.

Define yourself by opposition to something -by something you are not as opposed to what you ARE - and you are begging to BE DEFINED PASSIVELY -to allow yourself to be manipulated.

The Democratic Party must stand for principles which are not simply saying "We are not as bad as them".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bonobo (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:25 AM

5. Right

Politics is not sports and we are not fans. There is nothing to say that one can't respectfully question authority when the person being questioned is generally worthy of our respect. And there is no reason not to give praise when praise is earned. But we have all have a critical stake in the decisions being made in our name - regardless of whether we overall like the people making them or not. Everyone makes mistakes, which doesn't even take into account when a leader's interests might sometimes diverge from our own.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:12 AM

3. I am afraid those you are preaching to, wont listen. It's so much easier to love the personality

than stick to your principles.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:23 AM

4. We should, but won't

The Cult of Personality folks see everything Obama does as perfect in every way. And how dare anyone criticize him! They have an endless amount of excuses, lists and distractions to present should anyone say anything bad about the "best, most handsome, most liberal" president in all history!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to n2doc (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:42 AM

20. They see everything a certain personality does as perfect,

until it affects them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:29 AM

6. I think that Democrats, at least the ones I've always known, are focused on important

issues and would agree with you completely. I never had any doubts that Democrats would not be like Republicans, so fearful on behalf of their party, that they would ignore bad policies, even when they knew them to be bad.

But life is continuing learning process and I have learned that I was wrong to make that assumption.

Thanks for the OP. I completely agree with you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:52 AM

8. Not any more

As you surmise, many "Dems" are willing to support any right-wing initiative as long as Obama is for it. This is the way a party becomes irrelevant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:44 AM

7. About 50% agree with that, I think

and the other 50% are getting more and more angry with us. "Hater!" "Racist!" "Liberal!" All the while cheering the decimation of the New Deal and the Great Society. Well, I haven't missed an election since I became old enough to vote (1978), but as I peruse my ballot there is no one who represents me any more.

Edit: I have also noticed a lot of contentedness over single issues too. Over in LBGT it seems the world is a righteous place now that Rove has told all of the Republicans that they like gay marriage too. I sort of figured this would happen once the Repukes stopped hating (out loud) on that front.

Troublesome times ahead for the party if they continue to try to outflank the Repukes on the right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doctor_J (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:35 AM

16. And troublesomely times are ahead for the world.

As we get downsized to a third world nation by good cop/bad cop gaming.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:55 AM

9. K&R nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:11 AM

10. Hear hear.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:13 AM

11. One of the things I have always said,...Republicans vote for a leader they can follow...

Democrats vote like it's for a Union Stewart and watch them like a hawk.

This leads to Republicans doing the "vote thing" and then going back to sleep politically for four years while Democrats whine about being sold out constantly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:23 AM

12. This is Obama . . .

negotiating with himself again.

I'm really tired of his negotiations.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:28 AM

13. damn right!

. . . Democrats should hear it on CPI or any other reasonable assertion of our values and concerns.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:33 AM

14. My life's mantra is question EVERYTHING.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:34 AM

15. I have questioned and criticized authority my whole life, I'll never stop.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:36 AM

17. Anybody who would disagree with this is an irrational moron nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:37 AM

18. ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY!

Right is right and wrong is wrong, regardless of who is doing it. It's called having principles.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:41 AM

19. Thanks. This needs to be said.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:57 AM

21. Under the bus with you.

You are either for us or agin us. If you and everybody else go around complaining about every little right wing move the president makes, he might start to feel that he is doing the wrong thing, and that might make him feel bad. That might even lead to some change. Golly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:42 PM

22. Authority, if left unquestioned....

....is extremely dangerous. That holds true for all authority, and it doesn't matter if it's Dick Cheney, Hugo Chávez, or some book of Aramaic folk tales translated into Greek.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 01:14 PM

23. Certainly.

I think the problem is that we have seen so much ridiculous and outrageously insane criticism from the right that we have become sensitive to ANY criticism of Obama, so it's fightin' words whenever he is criticized. I admit that I am guilty of that in the sense that, when I hear someone criticizing one of his decisions my ire gets up, so I try to find something positive, but then have to later admit to myself that I don't always agree with him.

It's hard not to attempt to find something positive in any of his decisions when comments on message boards (other than DU) and in news articles regarding EVERY decision he has made, wrong or right, run rampant with insanity, and with comments that "he's a Muslim", or "not a U.S. citizen", and on and on. It's frustrating because it does no good to give these assholes facts, because they are so bent on hating Obama that they jump on you like viscious dogs if you disagree with them. I know they're insane, stupid, devoid of facts, or deny facts because they blindly hate, but it's still disgusting and it makes me angry, so I feel like I have to defend him, right or wrong.

I think we can agree that "Good leaders can make wrong decisions and still, for the most part, be good leaders." It's undeniably common sense

I do think Obama, for the most part, is a good leader. He has had to deal with so much opposition from the crazy right, that he has been forced to compromise to get something done. Otherwise, the GOP would succeed on blocking any progress, no matter what - we have known that from day one. I had hoped that, after being re-elected, and no longer "campaigning" for re-election, as most president are in their first terms, he would stand up a lot more against the GOP. I have seen him do this to a large degree, but fear that on some things, like SS (although my jury is still out on that due to lack of my understanding of CPI), he may be compromising too much. I also had hoped that the GOP, once they lost the election, would begin to compromise, but I realize now (silly me) that they will never compromise BECAUSE they lost. They are still campaigning for election in 2014 and 2016, even though they don't seem to have learned their lesson, and will lose even worse. But, in the meantime, they will continue to oppose any progress, so how Obama will continue to deal with it will be right or wrong, and I hope that I will have the wisdom to know the difference.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to vduhr (Reply #23)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 02:09 PM

24. I can sympathize with the point you made

Obama gets attacked by the Right and by many so called respectable commentators every time anyone in his administration does or does not do something - which means he gets blamed all of the time no matter what. And then they go after the Obama that they see sitting in an empty chair. I try to always give the President the respect he is due, both as our President and as a good human being whenever I can, even when I am strongly critical of something he is or is not doing. I also periodically acknowledge that Obama has many good points and that he almost looks like a Saint sometimes in comparison to who the Republicans want to have ruling this country. But then we all have to get down to business - being pro-active as citizens fighting for our own best interests without blind loyalty to any leader, even one we generally like, let alone the ones we don't. If we aren't willing to fight for our own interests it is foolish to expect someone else to do so for us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:35 PM

25. YES

there is no need to defend a person who proposes bad policies

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:38 PM

26. I certainly agree with this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:01 PM

27. K&R is my answer (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread