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Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:24 AM

It's not 3 dimensional chess. It's a kick to the gut.

Even if President Obama is absolutely sure that republicans in the House and Senate will reject his budget because of the minor tax increase proposals (something I NOT believe), this budget proposal is harmful. It further legitimizes cutting Social Security and Medicare. This budget fucks old folks.

The President is proposing 80% cuts to 20% tax increases, further widening the gap between rich and poor.

Now we have to hope that republicans will be stupid and recalcitrant to the point that the number rejecting this proposal, combined with dems who have pledged not to support cuts, will be able to defeat this in the House.

Thanks for fucking us over, Mr. President.

196 replies, 27886 views

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Arrow 196 replies Author Time Post
Reply It's not 3 dimensional chess. It's a kick to the gut. (Original post)
cali Apr 2013 OP
Scuba Apr 2013 #1
NOVA_Dem Apr 2013 #59
CrispyQ Apr 2013 #98
Sherman A1 Apr 2013 #128
Scuba Apr 2013 #132
SwampG8r Apr 2013 #135
TheMadMonk Apr 2013 #174
Sherman A1 Apr 2013 #183
steve2470 Apr 2013 #2
graham4anything Apr 2013 #11
steve2470 Apr 2013 #16
graham4anything Apr 2013 #19
abelenkpe Apr 2013 #28
steve2470 Apr 2013 #30
JDPriestly Apr 2013 #41
graham4anything Apr 2013 #44
JDPriestly Apr 2013 #53
hfojvt Apr 2013 #73
graham4anything Apr 2013 #74
sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #79
graham4anything Apr 2013 #115
HangOnKids Apr 2013 #124
grahamhgreen Apr 2013 #108
graham4anything Apr 2013 #114
Skittles Apr 2013 #121
graham4anything Apr 2013 #127
Skittles Apr 2013 #193
Bohunk68 Apr 2013 #118
graham4anything Apr 2013 #129
lark Apr 2013 #142
graham4anything Apr 2013 #180
SwampG8r Apr 2013 #137
JDPriestly Apr 2013 #81
Arctic Dave Apr 2013 #55
caseymoz Apr 2013 #70
Webster Green Apr 2013 #103
graham4anything Apr 2013 #116
caseymoz Apr 2013 #186
caseymoz Apr 2013 #185
Webster Green Apr 2013 #190
caseymoz Apr 2013 #191
TheMadMonk Apr 2013 #177
caseymoz Apr 2013 #187
grahamhgreen Apr 2013 #107
Marr Apr 2013 #133
graham4anything Apr 2013 #134
LiberalElite Apr 2013 #161
delrem Apr 2013 #182
whathehell Apr 2013 #151
Capt. Obvious Apr 2013 #99
Mnpaul Apr 2013 #136
Dragonfli Apr 2013 #150
Matariki Apr 2013 #106
Dragonfli Apr 2013 #125
City Lights Apr 2013 #139
daybranch Apr 2013 #178
HiPointDem Apr 2013 #3
Comrade_McKenzie Apr 2013 #4
cali Apr 2013 #5
HiPointDem Apr 2013 #6
steve2470 Apr 2013 #9
Oilwellian Apr 2013 #25
steve2470 Apr 2013 #26
Oilwellian Apr 2013 #33
steve2470 Apr 2013 #31
forestpath Apr 2013 #12
steve2470 Apr 2013 #17
MotherPetrie Apr 2013 #23
UnrepentantLiberal Apr 2013 #24
Autumn Apr 2013 #32
winter is coming Apr 2013 #57
cthulu2016 Apr 2013 #91
whistler162 Apr 2013 #163
forestpath Apr 2013 #7
Nite Owl Apr 2013 #13
forestpath Apr 2013 #15
leftstreet Apr 2013 #141
graham4anything Apr 2013 #8
abelenkpe Apr 2013 #29
graham4anything Apr 2013 #34
cherokeeprogressive Apr 2013 #39
JDPriestly Apr 2013 #43
clydefrand Apr 2013 #10
steve2470 Apr 2013 #14
panader0 Apr 2013 #21
forestpath Apr 2013 #35
snappyturtle Apr 2013 #67
nenagh Apr 2013 #82
susanr516 Apr 2013 #154
LiberalElite Apr 2013 #162
dflprincess Apr 2013 #167
City Lights Apr 2013 #192
NCTraveler Apr 2013 #18
Puzzledtraveller Apr 2013 #20
DanTex Apr 2013 #22
UnrepentantLiberal Apr 2013 #27
forestpath Apr 2013 #38
jollyreaper2112 Apr 2013 #61
progressoid Apr 2013 #89
Beacool Apr 2013 #168
City Lights Apr 2013 #140
RevStPatrick Apr 2013 #36
MjolnirTime Apr 2013 #42
RevStPatrick Apr 2013 #94
MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 #37
Jakes Progress Apr 2013 #47
MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 #50
duffyduff Apr 2013 #173
MjolnirTime Apr 2013 #51
Mnpaul Apr 2013 #69
L0oniX Apr 2013 #88
NoMoreWarNow Apr 2013 #64
duffyduff Apr 2013 #172
MjolnirTime Apr 2013 #40
Jakes Progress Apr 2013 #45
MjolnirTime Apr 2013 #48
Bonobo Apr 2013 #60
Hell Hath No Fury Apr 2013 #84
Jakes Progress Apr 2013 #92
Skittles Apr 2013 #122
Jakes Progress Apr 2013 #90
99Forever Apr 2013 #100
Capt. Obvious Apr 2013 #158
JDPriestly Apr 2013 #46
MjolnirTime Apr 2013 #49
cali Apr 2013 #54
MjolnirTime Apr 2013 #58
cali Apr 2013 #62
L0oniX Apr 2013 #93
OwnedByCats Apr 2013 #184
hfojvt Apr 2013 #75
cali Apr 2013 #52
MjolnirTime Apr 2013 #56
Raster Apr 2013 #68
cali Apr 2013 #71
Raster Apr 2013 #76
hfojvt Apr 2013 #109
OwnedByCats Apr 2013 #188
caseymoz Apr 2013 #72
hfojvt Apr 2013 #78
GoneFishin Apr 2013 #102
ljm2002 Apr 2013 #63
NoMoreWarNow Apr 2013 #65
ljm2002 Apr 2013 #66
Fuddnik Apr 2013 #77
jRus61 Apr 2013 #80
G_j Apr 2013 #83
xiamiam Apr 2013 #96
Smilo Apr 2013 #85
LoisB Apr 2013 #86
ProSense Apr 2013 #87
JEB Apr 2013 #95
yodermon Apr 2013 #97
pmorlan1 Apr 2013 #101
BlueCheese Apr 2013 #104
Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #105
cali Apr 2013 #110
Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #117
treestar Apr 2013 #126
markpkessinger Apr 2013 #143
Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #146
markpkessinger Apr 2013 #147
Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #148
Babel_17 Apr 2013 #111
indepat Apr 2013 #112
WillyT Apr 2013 #113
DeSwiss Apr 2013 #119
yourout Apr 2013 #120
HereSince1628 Apr 2013 #123
ZombieHorde Apr 2013 #130
Cleita Apr 2013 #131
xiamiam Apr 2013 #153
LiberalElite Apr 2013 #160
Jack Sprat Apr 2013 #138
KamaAina Apr 2013 #144
democrank Apr 2013 #145
AzDar Apr 2013 #149
Faryn Balyncd Apr 2013 #152
rhett o rick Apr 2013 #155
Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #156
blkmusclmachine Apr 2013 #157
Pryderi Apr 2013 #159
pandadug Apr 2013 #164
sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #166
pandadug Apr 2013 #169
jsr Apr 2013 #165
Douglas Carpenter Apr 2013 #170
duffyduff Apr 2013 #171
840high Apr 2013 #175
RKP5637 Apr 2013 #176
tex-wyo-dem Apr 2013 #179
ProudProgressiveNow Apr 2013 #181
steve2470 Apr 2013 #189
woo me with science Apr 2013 #194
jazzimov Apr 2013 #195
YOHABLO Jan 2014 #196

Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:27 AM

1. And then we wonder why potential voters say "it doesn't matter" and stay home on election day.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:12 AM

59. And we accused them of being the "stupid" ones. n/t

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Response to NOVA_Dem (Reply #59)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:37 PM

98. That made me laugh. A sad laugh.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 04:38 PM

128. Anyone with any sense, understood that you were voting for the lesser of two evils

Not that many years ago, Barack Obama would have been a Moderate Republican based upon what he offered. That he is Democrat is just a testament to how far to the right this country has moved in the lat 30+ years. I voted for him with my eyes fully open. He was not in my mind the one I wanted, but he was the best choice of what was offered on those November days. Anyone who thought they were getting a Liberal Democrat really wasn't paying attention.

That said, I am completely disappointed in hearing that SS cuts have been put on the table. I am not at all surprised, but very disappointed.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #128)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 04:46 PM

132. The Country hasn't moved to the right, just the politicians and their owners.

Look at gay rights, pot legalization, support for SS, Medicare and higher taxes. All indicate the Country is much further left than the rulers.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #128)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:11 PM

135. i said this election past that

we have reached a point where the primary system is hurting the process and no populist or progressive candidate, of either party, could survive it anymore.
the gop had a handful of better candidates before the primaries, but romney emerges as winner.
i am starting to believe the open convention path might yield better candidates
just let them make their case and let the assembled party representatives vote on it

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #128)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:35 PM

174. If the outcomes are functionally identical there's no effing "lesser" about it.

 

The difference lies almost entirely in how smoothly or roughly the government is engaging in figurative sexual congress with its citizenry.



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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #174)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 04:32 AM

183. Eloquently Stated

I think it might also include the degree to which it occurs in this case, but you have hit the nail on the head.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:27 AM

2. I agree

I'm waiting for people to explain to this admittedly ignorant-of-the-arcane-ways-of-Washington guy (me) WHY this is being proposed. Convince me this is good policy. Convince me that I and many others on this site are wrong on these issues.

I voted for President Obama TWICE but I did NOT vote for this kind of BS.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:42 AM

11. Don't worry, you don't have to vote for him a 3rd time. One can vote for Nader like NH did in 2000

 

How did that Nader NH 4 delegates to Bush do in 2000?
Gore had 267
4 of NH meant 271
270 is needed

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:46 AM

16. I gave him MONEY twice !!!!!!

yea, who cares that I did that, but I DID NOT FUND THIS.

I don't care about Ralph Nader and never voted for the man.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #16)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:51 AM

19. we all need to be patient and watch it all play out.

 

and FDR never said the #s would stay the way they are forever either.


However, nothing is set in stone about this, because most likely the repubs won't take the offer and it's a bluff, and it's one of three parts that have to be hammered out if it does happen.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:24 AM

28. I disagree

We should not wait and see how it plays out. We need to contact or reps ASAP and tell them we do not support cuts to ss or Medicare. We should lower the age of Medicare and raise the cap on ss if we are serious about strengthening these programs. Cuts are a recipe for bankrupting this programs. It is sad that the president would legitimize these wrong headed notions at all.

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #28)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:27 AM

30. I agree with you

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014445279#post20

The post above has contact info for President Obama.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:52 AM

41. No. This is a slap in the face to seniors who volunteered tirelessly

for Obama's campaign and who paid the Social Security that meant generous benefits for their parents and on top of that paid extra in order to save for their baby-boomer retirement.

No. Obama is absolutely wrong on this. He is betraying a large segment of his party -- dooming many to eating beans from the day they retire to the day they die.

This is unacceptable. It is a double-cross.

The minute Obama, Kerry and Hagel announced they were returning 5% of their pay, I knew this was a done deal. That's their conscience money. They know very well that this will harm not just seniors but America on the whole.

And they are doing this in order to be able to restore money to the bloated military budget.

This is pretty close to evil -- breaking promises to helpless old people in order to spend more on newfangled killing machines like drones, etc. Pretty close to evil.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #41)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:55 AM

44. Show me where exactly this was said in 2008?

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #44)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:04 AM

53. During the debates, Hillary suggested a proposal to "fix" Social Security.

OBAMA REJECTED IT. HE SAID HIS PROPOSAL WAS TO RAISE THE CAP ON THE AMOUNT OF INCOME THAT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE SOCIAL SECURITY TAX.

There is no crisis in the Social Security Trust Fund. (And yes, by law, it very definitely exists. The Secretary of the Treasury is supposed to be protecting it.) And if there were one, the answer would be to raise the cap.

If people feel uncomfortable about the future of Social Security, they should raise the cap.

Generations of Americans will pay a terrible price for these proposed cuts. AND THEY WILL HAPPEN.

The entire developed world is under attack from Fascists who want to destroy the safety nets that keep the middle class living in dignity to the end of life. The rich want to impose the burden of caring for elderly, living parents on the children of those parents. The rich hide their money in tax havens around the world, buy yachts and mansions in out-of-the-way places that you and I never see.

Even the Obama children -- just kids -- get to spend their vacation in one of these otherworldly resorts.

Meanwhile, people in nursing homes receive inadequate care, and we are not adequately addressing the problem of dementia in the elderly.

What kind of country are we that we have the money to keep troops in South Korea for some 70 years now but don't have the money to pay Social Security benefits that keep up with inflation?

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #53)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:53 AM

73. I've posted this video probably half a dozen times

including twice during the primaries.

Obama "I've been very clear on this"

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #53)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:55 AM

74. thanks to President Obama, I am now saving $1600 a month in health care costs...

 

that comes to $19,200 a year.
If I have to put a few hundred more into SS til I qualify it a few years from now,
I will have come out ahead over $100,000 to $200,000.

It goes hand in hand.

And as the years go by, wellness for those in their 20s and 30s will reduce trips to the doctor and surgery in their 50s and above.

So a little sacrifice now for those younger reaps major advantage later.

All self-employed especially.

BTW, when companies give health insurance and the last 40 years ones monthly health insurance during all that time (we are talking about today's senior citizens who now get medicare) they received a tax-free benefit all these years if their job paid their health insurance or a good portion and the monthly was a few hundred dollars.

compared to the self employed who pay thosands and thousands a month out of pocket.

Seems like that is something never taken into account.

And thank the Demcoratic people who in 1980 ditched Jimmy and voted for Reagan.
Some of our senators and congressmen did just that. While I don't hold it against them,
had everyone voted for Jimmy, we would have probably gotten France's health care system by now.
So the Reagan voters deserve a big chunk of the blame.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #74)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:09 AM

79. Yes, it's all about you and we are happy that at least one person is doing great. But

we are now concerned about all the others, the poor, the disabled, seniors and dependent children.

I did not and will not support Hillary because she told the truth about her intentions regarding policies such as SS and wars etc. Obama otoh, told us he would fight to preserve SS, something we expect from Dems anyhow.

We will now focus on Congress, it doesn't matter who is president so long as we fill Congress with Progress Democrats. No more third way candidates!

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #79)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 02:51 PM

115. Then one should also be for the 100% removal of guns in the hands of private citizens

 

I would prefer if the candidates who end up in congress are all anti-gun,
therefore the 35 people a day and the 100s wounded, can grow up and become senior citizens

One would think that reinterpreting the 2nd is the most liberal thing one could do, as there are far more gun deaths in 6 months than in all history of collateral drone deaths.

The disconnect is amazing if you ask me, it should be a given.

Without guns and bullets, Angela Davis' brother never would have had the connection to get Angela in trouble all those years ago.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #79)


Response to graham4anything (Reply #74)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 01:10 PM

108. Mine have gone up.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #108)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 02:46 PM

114. Then move to a differnent one. Soon everyone will be able to move.

 

Some states have it earlier.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #114)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:58 PM

121. you are REALLY getting desperate

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Response to Skittles (Reply #121)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 04:31 PM

127. How? I made the switch and saved $1600 a month. $19,000 plus a year

 

In 5 years, that is $95,000 out of pocket I will save.

NOT only that, but my split went to 70/30 from 50/50, so my out of pocket is 20% less on any after deductible money.

BTW, my deductible also drops from $5000 to $2500, another $2500 a year savings.

Why shouldn't I be able to offset the bash Obama on health care and everything else,
when sole-proprietors and self-employed are going to finally have a break.

Our health care has always been so many times higher than the large corporations pay
(funny in a way because the anti-Obama people are also- anti-Corporations so someone like me and the tens of millions of self employed and small business people who don't work for a large corporation now have major actual out of pocket savings

100% thanks to the initial move forward of President Obama.
And something Ted Kennedy knew which is why he was so upset back in 1993ish times that zero happened and it took 15 more years to get any movement at all.

It proves, 10% of something is indeed better than 0% of nothing.
as I keep saying but I am indeed drowned out by the small but very vocal anti-Obama contingents who have only great things to say about Ralph nader, but zero good things to say in 4 plus years now for President obama.

Even the vast majority of Hillary 2008 people are now very happy, knowing that Hillary now earned my vote and every Obama 2008 core voter who wants more than anything to continue the agenda of President Obama after he leaves office and before Hillary nominates him to the US Supreme Court (like President Taft did when he left office).

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #127)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 03:27 PM

193. LOLOL

you are seriously deluded

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #74)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:33 PM

118. Well, well, aren't

you special. You are saving twice what I get a month on Social Security. I'm not asking for a whole lot, just enough to get by on and I'm damn close to that now, thanks to Food Pantries. And thanks for shifting the subject from SS to healthcare.

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Response to Bohunk68 (Reply #118)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 04:42 PM

129. The republicans, as President Obama knew, refused the offer. So there is nothing to worry about

 

But the big picture is EVERYTHING. One can't separate anything out, it is all together.

One cannot separate a savings that soon the vast majority of those under senior age Americans will save that over the years will 10x any future small rise, therefore making in time SS less needed anyhow, because everyone will save tens of thousands of dollars.

And everyones kids and grandkids will reap benefits unheard of fifty years ago.

And eventually there will be universal health care, and a paid forward method, which aside from health insurance, will save nationwide billions for the average person.

If one now has say $20,000 a year in medical bills, and it is reduced to zero, ontop of the lower health insurance, you do the math.

It's all coming.

And, btw, any mention of an increase also mentions seniors will be grandfathered in their old rates, so no senior is going to get less anyhow.
IMHO

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #129)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:39 PM

142. Don't know where you are living and what kind of health care you have

but this sounds strange when the average cost in MA and ND, the only states I know where there are exchanges, is around $900 per family of 4 per month. I don't know how you can just assume there will be big cost savings, except for the indigent or near indigent. For the healthy uninsured, this will be a huge increase. I know in FL, they are not expanding Medicaid and most states in the south it's the same - they want to provide programs with little guaranteed coverage at all - how is that good for the lower wage earner?

I have not seen anywhere that chained CPI wouldn't affect all SSI recepients. When they talk about raising the age, that's when they say not for people currently on or very close to retirement age.

There's no way that chained CPI is not a total betrayal of the working class in favor of the 1%ers, no spin can change that fact.

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Response to lark (Reply #142)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 01:33 AM

180. NJ formerly NYC

 

Our insurance a few decades ago was from corporation very cheap
Then went into other things first took CobraServ after that ended, we kept the same policy,
but now on our own, and every year after it went up 15% (Aetna).
So the old Aetna mont ly cost is just the normal 15% upward, compounded yearly.

As the years went on, with this and that we now had things that wouldn't be insured had we left so we were forced to stay with what we had.
Last year we tried to move and again found we could not move and get unlimited lifetime cap and have preexisting conditions covered.
This year (our policy yearly ends at this time of the year), we again needed to look into it as we couldn't afford it and found we could switch as we did to Horizon.

NJ and NY are two of the most expensive states, but some of the companies are in advance doing things that others will be forced to do next year at some point.
But at least in our family, we have to have insurance and can't not have it.
On Aetna, we had the lowest possible (so the $3100 figure is the lowest (A level) amazingly it rises to $9000 (and that's monthly) if one wants the cadillac plan, with the only other option being a bare minimum with a cap of less than $100,000 which if one has a major illness, is used up in the first month alone.

And there were other companies we looked into that hasn't yet changed their policy, so those companies were out.

It may take a number of years, but the system as it is can't remain this way and IMHO probably in the next decade what people wanted four years ago will happen (corny as it is, if we move forward, not backward). Either that or everyone will have to move to the states that on their own (like Vermont/NY/NJ) that have a better system and one that will even get better.

Just wish I discovered wellness years ago, over doing nothing for too long and having it catch up to me last year.

Guess we will all see what happens as 2014 rolls in.
What Aetna needed was more levels than the 4 they offered. But they had no catastrophic insurance for a cheap price.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #74)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:23 PM

137. what about that

poor bastard who drags him self to work every day and is just about ready to start collecting his ss now?
the guy who worked for 50+ years and every week the govt took a portion of his pay with the promise to repay when his time came?his time approaches and he will not have the privledge of socking away a pile to tide him over.
he was told he would be taken care of with every paycheck he earned.
so good for you but we are not talking about you specificly we are discussing people who have paid all their lives and now will be told "no...sorry....none for you... get along now"
and where will it stop?
if he can live on less money maybe he wont need so much medicine?
ss and medicare pair up at a certain point in your life and once we cut ss ,then the knives turn to medicare
this is bad stuff mainly because i know from my own life that once you "put something on the table" its always on the table
until its consumed

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #44)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:37 AM

81. The videos of Obama promising to raise the cap and not cut

Social Security is in post #73.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:07 AM

55. Nader didn't blow the elections, your boy Gore did.

 

Your irrationality doesn't hold to the facts that Gore sucked.

And Obama sucks too for even suggesting it.

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #55)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:42 AM

70. Oh, who would have been better than W?


Gore.

Nader blew the elections. He couldn't have expected to win. Nobody voting for him could have expected him to win, and he could have only taken votes from Gore. He was a vote for a dream that a 3rd party was viable in national politics. A protest vote, basically, against a lack of choice. It was hardly the most pressing issue at the time, in fact, it was the very worst time for it.

But Nader's voters are hardly as guilty as the voters for Bush and the SCOTUS. They royally screwed us along with the whole world.

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Response to caseymoz (Reply #70)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:57 PM

103. Bullshit!

The US Supreme W. Court stopped the vote counting. Nader is not to blame because he decided to run for president.

And Ralph Nader makes much more sense than Obama does, that's for sure. Ever listen to what he has to say? He is right on.

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Response to Webster Green (Reply #103)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:16 PM

116. Too bad he was way too lazy to actually do what Al Franken did and run for senate or house

 

And 2000 made me suspect to any prior ulterior motive he might have had all those years ago. Nader and Bob Woodward are two equals.

I prefer Bernstein and President Obama.

Nader's words "both are the same" are lies.
Gore would not have nominated Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, Alito and rehnquist.

and President Obama has given us two of the alltime great justices, Justice Sotomayer and Justice Kagen.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #116)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 06:03 AM

186. You're right in every way. nt

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Response to Webster Green (Reply #103)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 05:59 AM

185. What threw the election into a virtual tie?

The SCOTUS wouldn't have gotten near it without Nader. If you take Nader out of the race, do you think Bush v. Gore would have happened anyway? How? Take Nader out of that race, Gore wins.

Nader says a lot of right things, but he was wrong about one thing. (And who isn't wrong about at least one thing?) Our Constitution isn't set up to accommodate political parties. Remember, the Founders wrote the Constitution to have no factions. In other words, they had in mind what's now known as a one-party state. We're lucky we've got two. Other countries will deal with political parties in their main operating documents. Not the US.

This problem cannot be addressed by forming a third party and trying very hard. It has to somehow be addressed on the Constitutional level.

Nader's failure to see this was a gross miscalculation at the very least. Whether it involved dereliction for emotional satisfaction is a matter of conjecture. The failure of his followers to grasp that his victory was hopeless, and the consequences of voting for him anyway out of "principle" is indefensible.

Except it's much more apparent in hindsight. Really, the only defense I can think of for Nader supporters is they had no way of knowing just how awful W would be, and just how many people paid not only with their livelihoods but by their very lives by having him in office. I'm guessing a lot of people were too dazzled by the light of the greater good to give the opportunity for the greatest evil much thought.

No matter what you thought of Gore, however, I don't think he would have ended his years in office with a wrecked economy, 7,000 or so Americans dead, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghanis dead, many more wounded, maimed and/or disabled, people being imprisoned with no charges . . . I can go on and on. Gore did not have that kind of potential evil in him.


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Response to caseymoz (Reply #185)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 11:29 AM

190. I guess I'm just a dreamer then.

I can't really argue much with either of the replies to my post.

For what it's worth, I voted for Nader, but not because I wanted to see him (or thought he could be) elected. I did it to support the Green Party, and did it with the luxury of living in a "safe" state (CA).

Had I lived in the shit-hole known as Flori-duh, I would have voted for Gore.

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Response to Webster Green (Reply #190)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:23 PM

191. Again, it's easier to figure out in hindsight.


And under the unrelenting misery of the Bush Administration.

I'll never make the mistake now of thinking we live in a Progressive Democracy where all things are possible.

I just remember, for example, that the Civil Rights movement was not peaceful. That MLK succeeded only partially, and amidst great violence and strife. While the government made concessions and compromised, it's almost forgotten (because it was done almost secretly and with a news blackout) that the more radical wings of the movement were brutally suppressed. The Black Panthers were decimated and only the more fortunate ones received a trial.

And look at how the Occupiers were treated, and how their treatment was coordinated. How are we going to fight this impoverishment conspiracy called austerity now that they've been beaten back?

The US was founded by the wealthy to protect the interests of the wealthy. The Preamble "We the People . . ." was written by 51 wealthy, white men who appointed themselves to do it, and called themselves "the people" as public relations.

If you haven't read Howard Zinn's People's History of the United States, I encourage you to do so.

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Response to caseymoz (Reply #70)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:07 AM

177. Third party is viable. In a place like the senate. /nt

 

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #177)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 06:16 AM

187. It's somewhat viable in the States.


Progressive party won seats in a lot of legislatures of small states, mainly because neither of the national parties cared too much about what happened in South Dakota and such.

However, the only time a third party has risen on the national level is when one of the two establishment parties is dying. From the States, they might send the occasional 3rd party rep or senator, but don't you think people noticed before our age that the two party system was pretty stifling? Don't you think they tried?

You just make a mistake when you believe our country was founded on democratic principles. The Founders had no faith in Democracy, and they wrote the Constitution specifically to give as few democratic compromises as they had to for stability and appeasement. And unfortunately, that's still the way our country is run.

You only accommodate two parties in such a system: a conservative party preserving and enhancing the position of the wealthy, and the party of everyone else. Or in our case, the conservative party and the party of everyone else run by other, perhaps weaker, conservatives.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 01:07 PM

107. No, we don't. Obama & co. has played us enough already.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 04:52 PM

133. Holy shit! You're already moving on to the Justification Phase?!

"FDR never said the #s would stay the way they are forever either."

I think we're still in the Denial Phase, FYI. So the "be patient and wait" line is still the talking point of the day.

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Response to Marr (Reply #133)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 04:59 PM

134. LBJ was the best on all social issues like FDR was, and SS/Medicare, everything, however...

 

the people sold LBJ down the river, as they sold Jimmy Carter down the river and want to do the same to President Obama.
(let alone Adlai Stevenson).
How many times does one go round in circles and not realize what harm happened because of all those past times?

People scream out, no dynasties (when talking about President Obama, Clinton and on the other side Bush), yet FDR had 4 terms, repeat 4 terms to get it right.

Not everything happened the first term. He had 3 more(or parts of the 4th term).

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:40 PM

161. how far are you from retirement? nt

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 03:58 AM

182. There's no choice about "watching it all play out"

However, we've watched for some time now and can expect Obama to be consistent with the past. Which isn't good - unless Dems think Romneycare is a great leap forward, back room deals with the pharmaceuticals are progressive, etc.

What everyone can see is that this is Obama's *opening move*, laying the table, so to speak, for the so-called "US left" to play out its hand. And no, the R's have never shown the least inclination for conceding ground they've already won without even a token battle. They *will* demand and get more, again even before real negotiations start. And this isn't "3D chess", a metaphor that's long past its expiry date. More like this is the now traditional "pre-emptory cave" (tom tomorrow), the preferred term of those who don't want to come right out and claim that Obama isn't engaged in anything bipartisan, he's colluding.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #16)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 06:37 PM

151. Me too...and I just got a lovely solicitation for $ to help put in Congressional Dems in 2014

I told him NO democrat votes to cut Social Security and I'd give NOTHING

to any so-called democrat who backs him on this.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:37 PM

99. BINGO! I GOT BINGO!



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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #99)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:19 PM

136. Can you win

by having five markers in a row vertically on Nader?

If you can, I'm calling BINGO

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Response to Mnpaul (Reply #136)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 06:23 PM

150. I think that is a round robin bingo!

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 01:05 PM

106. WTH? THAT doesn't have to do with any of this.

That's the lamest deflection I've seen in a while.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 04:14 PM

125. You know, if you want to take on the role of loyalty oath hall moniter

Come up with some new material, and for fucks sake try to write things that make sense!
Your longer posts in particular are strange non-linear incomprehensible word salads that mostly just make people laugh (fyi ).

A good hall monitor should at least make sense, lack of credibility aside.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:29 PM

139. LOL!

You are obsessed with Ralph Nader. You remind me of another DUer I used to know...

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:22 AM

178. what

a helpful comment?

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Response to cali (Original post)


Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:29 AM

4. We don't need a new thread on this. nt

 

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:32 AM

5. lol. so don't post it, hon.

make it disappear.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:36 AM

6. i think we do.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:40 AM

9. I think we do also

This is a blatant FUCK YOU to the democratic wing of the Democratic Party. Social Security has NOTHING to do with the deficit and Medicare benefits should be untouched.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:14 AM

25. I'm sorry, but you're wrong

You just repeated what the media has been saying for the past several months, and it's not true. It's not just the base of our party that is against cuts to SS & Medicare. A large majority of ALL Americans are against these cuts. Please stop repeating this mind-bending attempt at lessening the opposition to this fucked up proposal. Thanks!

On edit: 3 edits. Sheesh. I'm so pissed about this betrayal I can't think straight.

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #25)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:17 AM

26. Ok yes you're correct, sincerely.

I'm angry. My bad, sincerely.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #26)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:29 AM

33. No problemo

It's an example of how insidiously effective the corporate controlled media has become. Thanks for responding.

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #25)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:28 AM

31. I'm very angry also

You were 100% correct and I'm glad you corrected me.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:42 AM

12. There can't be too many threads on this. This is peoples' lives we're talking about.

 

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Response to forestpath (Reply #12)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:46 AM

17. agreed nt

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Response to forestpath (Reply #12)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:02 AM

23. +1

 

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:09 AM

24. You mean you don't want another thread

 

telling you we were right all along.

I drove to Ohio to canvas for him in 08. I voted for him in 2012. So don't tell me I can't criticize his decisions.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:28 AM

32. The more threads and posts on this the better. Gonna be a lot of them

and a lot of pissed off Democrats.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:09 AM

57. Meh. I'd say its past time DU obsessed on a different kind of boob. n/t

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:23 PM

91. Depends who "we" is, I suppose

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:37 PM

163. We do all with raging FOX errr false outrage in all of them.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:39 AM

7. The Democratic party will never recover from this.

 

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Response to forestpath (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:43 AM

13. What Democratic Party?

It's now the Wall St. party, or maybe the Third Way party. The rich need our money, all of it.

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Response to Nite Owl (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:44 AM

15. Good point.

 

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Response to forestpath (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:36 PM

141. Good. Maybe The Left will get off its ass and fill the vacuum n/t

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:40 AM

8. Actually it's 10 steps ahead.BTW, it hasn't happened, has it?

 

BTW, not for nothing but JFK once said, "Ask not what the country can do for you,
ask what YOU can do for YOUR country.

Those weren't a sound byte, but had meaning

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:26 AM

29. You are advocating for cuts with the notion people should sacrifice more? Nt

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #29)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:33 AM

34. i am advocating for a France like system that has no need for SS in the future

 

Because it is all paid forward

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #34)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:45 AM

39. Yeah... I don't think that's what JFK had in mind.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #34)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:55 AM

43. Baby boomers paid forward.

Bush borrowed the money from the trust fund to give tax breaks to the rich and to fight two wars. Then the banks borrowed in order to keep afloat after successfully carrying out the biggest heist in history.

Our system works. Baby boomers' big mistake was trusting our government with its paid forward money and not taking Al Gore up on putting it in a lock box.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:40 AM

10. Send the White House a message now:

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Response to clydefrand (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:44 AM

14. done !

I cannot believe he is going to do this. I gave him money TWICE but I did not fund this kind of BS. Yes I'm angry.

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Response to clydefrand (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:01 AM

21. Done

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Response to clydefrand (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:34 AM

35. Just called.

 

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Response to clydefrand (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:27 AM

67. Thank you and done.

I told the President that he is gambling with our futures and
that the American dream is a nightmare. (Thank you George
Carlin). I suggested he build more low income housing and
be prepared to pay for more food assistance for the elderly.

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Response to clydefrand (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:38 AM

82. Thank you...

It was difficult to voice the extent of my feelings of betrayal an anger and stay civil.

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Response to clydefrand (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 07:44 PM

154. Done

Emailed a message expressing my disgust and checked the box requesting a reply. I'd contact my Senators and my Congressman, but they're all teabaggers.

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Response to clydefrand (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:42 PM

162. Thank you for link I just gave them my very frank (read: negative) opinion nt

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Response to clydefrand (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:11 PM

167. Done

though I have serious doubts that it will do any good.

Obama can't run again - he doesn't need us anymore.

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Response to clydefrand (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:57 PM

192. Thank you!

I feel better even though I know it won't do much/if any good.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:48 AM

18. Say it is rejected outright.....

It is now very clear to the American people that SS is a big part of the problem. That is what is really wrong with this. The leader of the Democratic party is solidifying the republicans wet dream that SS needs to be cut.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:00 AM

20. Exactly

The idea that he is somehow playing political chicken is delusional. That this is an official budgemt item is serious.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:01 AM

22. Yup. I don't get it. At all.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:19 AM

27. "The truth of the matter is

 

that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican." - President Barack Obama

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #27)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:38 AM

38. Reagan signed a bill to protect SS back in the 80's. So Obama has just proved he's even

 

worse than Reagan.

Makes me sick to think I voted for a man who did what even Reagan, a man I voted against twice and who I hated with the white hot heat of a thousand suns, wouldn't do.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #27)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:14 AM

61. fuck

That's a real quote! Googled it. God damn it.

I refuse to accept the premise of his statement. Center-right or whack-job-right is not mainstream. It's where those babyfuckers are pulling us but it's not where we're at.

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Response to jollyreaper2112 (Reply #61)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:12 PM

89. Yup...

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Response to progressoid (Reply #89)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:26 PM

168. Well, isn't that special.

I guess he does admire Ronnie. I still remember how he compared him favorably over Bill Clinton.

"Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not, and a way that Bill Clinton did not," he said, describing Reagan as appealing to a sentiment that, "We want clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing."

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #27)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:32 PM

140. That is one helluva quote. nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:36 AM

36. I'm not at all surprised.

 

C'mon, people... The man is a corporatist!
I think he's a good human being, I voted for him twice, but I knew all along that he was a corporatist.
A corporatist with a nice smile, a pretty family and a mostly pragmatic approach.

Didn't you people know that?
Of course you did...

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Response to RevStPatrick (Reply #36)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:52 AM

42. spoken like a true maroon

 

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #42)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:29 PM

94. Ummm... Yeah, whatever...

 

I suspect that you feel duped by Mr. Obama, that you thought he was going to be a Hopey-Changey "socialist" and now you are defensive. You are going to take it out on me, and I really couldn't give a shit.

I like Mr. Obama, particularly considering the alternatives we could have been saddled with in 2008 and 2012. I think he's a great president. But I never, for a moment, thought that he would radically change anything.


Actually... I've decided to take your Maroon comment as a compliment.
Queen Mother Granny Nanny is one of my heroes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maroon_%28people%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanny_of_the_Maroons

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:36 AM

37. Relax. He's just warming up.

The Trans Pacific Partnership will be a battering ram to the gut.

The guy's got a post-partisan legacy to think about.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:58 AM

47. His legacy will be the first

Democrat to serve two terms as a republican.

I still say he is nothing but a reagan democrat who dresses up as a liberal every four years. I fell for it. I knew better the second time, but Obama was lucky that the only option was another stupid rich white guy.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #47)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:02 AM

50. I'd argue that Obama's pretty far to the right of Reagan

Reagan did the Keynsian/FDR thing and spent us out of a serious recession. Obama, by contrast, has been a strict Hooverian with a few trickle-down stimuli, massive aid to bankers, and austerity otherwise.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #50)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:14 PM

173. He's to the right of Bush II. Seriously.

He is the most right-wing president in American history.

The country isn't going to survive long on this neoliberal bullshit.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #47)


Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #47)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:36 AM

69. Trying to beat out Clinton?

She said the administration is "giving the Democrat Party's base the back of the hand" and expressed concern that Obama is moving to the right, like Clinton did after the 1994 elections.
Maddow called Clinton "probably the best Republican president the country ever had, if you look at the policies he passed."


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/90187-irritated-at-obama-maddow-calls-clinton-best-republican-president-ever

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #47)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:09 PM

88. ...and we thought Clinton took the party to the right. Well Obama may be moving to the right but...

a lot of us aren't and won't ever and we will vote any SOB out of office to dares to touch SS.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:21 AM

64. not to mention sign off on the Keystone XL pipeline!

 

and continue the drone war, etc

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:13 PM

172. He's big on "public-private partnerships," you know

Which translated means all public assets will be sold off to private interests.

Look what he is doing to public education. It is a fucking scandal.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:52 AM

40. and that Mother killed her baby, too, huh?!? You need to take a break.

 

The overreaction is strong with this one.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #40)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:56 AM

45. How very sensible of you.

Such a good little woodchuck. After all, why worry about anything?

Your underreaction is very telling. There are Democrats and their are those who call themselves such.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #45)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:59 AM

48. I've watched both of you hate on Obama for years. And accomplish jack shit.

 

Yet he continues to succeed.

I am so glad he's where he is and you are where you are.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #48)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:13 AM

60. You have been here for only one and a half years.

Are you a sock-puppet or are you a zombie?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #60)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:44 AM

84. Snap!



They always "out" themselves on the end.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #60)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:25 PM

92. Whichever one, we know he can't count.

And doesn't count.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #60)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:59 PM

122. STOP IT BONOBO

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #48)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:21 PM

90. So you are glad about cutting SS?

Just why do you sign on to DU? Do you know what the D stands for?

Did you watch me support and campaign for him? Did you watch me knock on doors and tell people what turned out to be lies to help get him elected? You don't know shit.

Yet he is not succeeding. He is presiding over the biggest rightward movement of the Democratic agenda in our lives. He negotiates by giving in as a starting point.

So forgive me if I'm not glad. I don't like cutting SS when we should be expanding it. A president with knowledge and guts would say so and make it happen. This one doesn't know and doesn't know how to get things done if he did.

So, tell us now. Are you happy and glad about cutting SS? Or are you too much like our president and too cowardly to stand up and say.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #48)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:41 PM

100. Classic:

<a href=".html" target="_blank"><img src="" border="0" alt=" photo OBINGO_Page_3_zpsaea1a3f1.jpg"/></a>

(Thanks to Captain Obvious for this, hope he doesn't mind.)

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #100)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:21 PM

158. Thanks

"Obama Hater" is a free square though.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #40)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:57 AM

46. No. If anything it is not strong enough.

And the Republicans will end up accepting this. This is a done deal. This announcement follows months of negotiations.

This is a betrayal.

Obama has an appeaser. I have lost faith in him. And I worked so hard to get him re-elected.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #46)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:01 AM

49. If you were once an Obama supporter, then it is you who is doing the betraying.

 

And you've been doing it for a long time. Long before the last election.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #49)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:05 AM

54. and people like YOU are committing a far, far, far uglier betrayal

Disgusting to support the President on this against the people.

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Response to cali (Reply #54)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:11 AM

58. I'll support Obama over you any day of the week. He has actually helped this Country while you typed

 

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #58)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:14 AM

62. could you get any sillier or off topic? It would be hard.

Look, I'm not the President, and while I support some of what he's done in office, this is a seriously bad proposal with huge negative impact on the lives of many.

It's that simple, genius.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #49)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:28 PM

93. Maybe we're not all going to stay in your precious group of brown shirts and lock step. n/t

Cutting SS in any way shape or form is a major betrayal. Got links where Obama says he will never touch SS?

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #49)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 05:45 AM

184. When people get stabbed in the back

by someone they trust, this kind of thing tends to happen. If a friend of yours, who you thought you could trust, stole part of your life savings away from you, are you telling me that would be ok with you?? If Obama cuts SS/Medicare, how is this different from a friend stealing a portion of your savings and now you may not be able to survive without it and you don't have any other provisions because you trusted that friend not to raid your savings the minute your back was turned. The politicians claim to be your friend when in fact, they are not really your friends at all because their actions do not reflect their promises. With the exception of a handful of good democrats who do try to work for what's best for the 99%, the rest of the government doesn't give a flying toss about you, me or anyone else but themselves and the corporations they cater to.

I'm a long way from being eligible for SS, a good 25 years away - but my dad is 62 and had to retire early due to health issues late last year. I worry that once he is eligible for SS (you know that thing he paid into for a good 40+ years?) will be greatly reduced or non-existent. I sure as hell won't be able to take care of him financially unless things change mighty quick with the economy. I can't even take care of myself at a satisfactory level at the moment. I find it terribly troubling. That this is even being discussed, much less seriously considered, by democrats no less, is a travesty and not what we voted for.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #46)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:59 AM

75. you mean it is ANOTHER betrayal

I would say he betrayed us before he was even sworn in for a 2nd term by making 85% of the Bush tax cuts permanent, including about $1,000,000 a year for Mitt Romney.

But that's just me.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #40)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:03 AM

52. pathetic, sweetums.

I was wrong to suspect the mother. So the fuck what, honeypie? What does that have to do with this? I'll tell you? Jackfuckingshit.

Oh, and for the record, I sure as shit have not hated on Obama as you accuse me of. Now go cheer for social security cuts and Medicare cuts, hon.

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Response to cali (Reply #52)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:07 AM

56. It proves you shoot first and ask questions later. You're a blowhard. That's all.

 

And you have bashed Obama for a long time. I have witnessed it. Why pretend otherwise? The evidence is all over this place.
Just because you think you are doing it for his own good doesn't make it right.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #56)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:33 AM

68. I just served on a jury that voted to leave your post standing. I am juror number three.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: This is a personal attack. I am NO cali fan, however, I have NOT seen cali "bash Obama for a long time." In fact, I've seen the opposite. And while I agree cali may well be a "blowhard," this poster did violate the rules. Hide the post.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I'm going to give this one a pass. Dem bashers beware.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
--------------
I want to reiterate: I have NOT seen cali "bash Obama for a long time," in fact, quite the opposite. And frankly, I must agree with cali. ANY CUTS to SS or Medicare are aimed at those persons that can least afford them, and ARE WRONG.

This is a kick in the nuts from President Obama and the corporate democrats. They do not lead the party of FDR, nor do they act like they want to.

It's high time that all of us that consider ourselves Dems reevaluate where we stand -- and where the leaders of our party stand. I do NOT like the direction we are heading.

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Response to Raster (Reply #68)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:45 AM

71. I'm not going to thank you for this. In fact, I'm going to point out your hypocrisy

You're calling me the same name the poster is, but because you disagree whit his/her politics you voted to hide it.

Not that I give a damn one way or the other, but it is amusing.

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Response to cali (Reply #71)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:04 AM

76. oh please dearie, if you didn't give a damn you wouldn't have responded.

amusement cuts both ways. have a nice day.

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Response to cali (Reply #71)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 01:28 PM

109. not necessairly about politics

as I understand the rules of DU2, it was against the rules to call a liar a liar and to call an idiot an idiot, etc. That the insult was true was no defense against it being against the rules.

Thus if a juror follows those rules, then he/she should not allow an insult to stand even if he/she thinks the insult is true.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #56)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 06:18 AM

188. Why does that even matter?

Just because some have had additional complaints in the past about Obama doesn't make this topic any less valid. I'm willing to bet most, if not all the people here voted for him and some even donated financially and they've got every right to be outraged. On something this important, how could anyone think that if this indeed happens that it's ok - why, because a democrat did it? If a republican was president and wanted to do this, every single person on this board would be furious and that includes you.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #40)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:53 AM

72. If and when the cuts are enacted, what are you going to say?


Have you thought through that contingency? What are you going to say to the poor having to live with less, to the sick who have care either denied or botched due to the cuts?

You think they won't go through, Obama doesn't mean this, but I suggest you think of and rehearse your contingency excuse now for Obama now just in case. Because you might think he's not going to do it, but even the smartest people can be mistaken and unlucky with their expectations.

And what he'll do he'll do no matter if you have faith in him or not.

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Response to caseymoz (Reply #72)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:06 AM

78. then we will probably be told

that Obama saved social security and made it more progressive.

Just like we were told his extension of the Bush tax cuts was a victory and then we were told that making them permanent, including $1.5 trillion for the richest 5% and $2.4 trillion for the richest 20%, that actually makes the tax code MORE progressive.

Oh. and plus Obama got Republicans to agree to tax increases, so he is eating their lunch.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #78)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:53 PM

102. And that he is still playing 27-1/4 dimensional chess and that

he is just way smarter than we are, and we just need to trust that he has an end
game that will make it all worthwhile.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:19 AM

63. You are so right...

...and it also continues to blur what distinctions remain between Republicans and Democrats.

Republicans will f*** over the 90% to enrich the 10%. They are pretty up-front about their policies although they will never admit in so many words that is what they are doing.

Democrats will do the same but not quite as harshly. They will spout platitudes about the middle class and once in awhile they will mention the poor. But when the dust settles, their policies also benefit the 10% to the detriment of the 90%.

That's what is happening today in the Corporate States of America. Where a food company can be sued and LOSE in court for putting TRUE statements on their labels. Where a news company can be sued and WIN in court for insisting on broadcasting LIES to their audience. Where an oil spill is not an oil spill, so the government and not the company has to pay for cleanup.

It's a crying shame. I don't even recognize our Democratic Party anymore. They have given up their heritage and we are left with the 3rd Way policy mish mash. It's thin gruel indeed.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #63)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:22 AM

65. there are lots of really good Dems-- it is just

 

that their most prominent leaders are corporatist frauds. Partly because of the obscene power structure in this country.

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Response to NoMoreWarNow (Reply #65)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:26 AM

66. Yes there are a few really good Dems...

...but where are they on this issue? Bernie Sanders has been a consistent defender of Social Security against the depradations of the corporatists in both parties. I don't recall one Democrat who has been as consistent as he has on this issue.

You are so right about their prominent leaders being corporatist frauds, and about the obscene power structure we have.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:04 AM

77. Withhold our taxes.

Thats about the only thing they'll listen to. Otherwise, they'll just give your money to the banks, oil companies, private prisons, billions to illegally spy on you.

They only get to do this shit because we voluntarily cooperate with them.

Up next: Your tax dollars at work in Iran.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:20 AM

80. Now it gets interesting

The President needs the entire country to be PISSED OFF about cutting social security and medicare. I mean mad enough to scare the crap out of Republicans.

Hopefully the majority of people who don't know who the vice president is or thier senator, or thier congressman will start paying attention for a while. Obama is simply bringing this to the boiling point and if the country rolls over then it's not his fault, it's ours.

I think he's begging the country to get mad and push Washington, especially republicans, into a reasonable solution that doesn't hurt our earned benefits. I hope he finds a way to bring up Nancy Pelosi's democratic caucus budget. I'm just saying....

The current stalemate simply looks like 'typical washington politicians' to most people. They need to know what the argument is really about. It's a gamble, but if someone doesn't bring this to a head soon we are guaranteed to lose anyway.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:41 AM

83. Like clockwork

no surprise. And though I desperately hope not, I expect the next shoe to drop will be approval of Keystone.

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Response to G_j (Reply #83)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:34 PM

96. yep...I see that happening as well...like clockwork as you say..nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:45 AM

85. Truly disgusting

sorrowing and totally, totally wrong.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:58 AM

86. We knew it was coming. He has this need to show just how "bi-partisan" he is.

Hopefully, there will be some Democrat in the Senate with enough guts to say NO to this.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:01 PM

87. It's the culmination

of his actions thus far.

Obama’s Budget: With Job Growth Tepid, Is Now The Time To Cut Spending?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022618893

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:33 PM

95. Multi-dimensional

cluster fuck. Thank Gawd for the Boehner's blind obstruction.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:36 PM

97. And even if he is doing this ASSUMING they repukes will still deny the compromise,

the point is that these cuts are now officially "on the table" for whatever negotiations are down the road. Can't unring that bell by saying "yeah, that chained CPI thing was a bluff because I knew you repukes would reject it anyway". The Senate may be a firewall for now (*may* be) but if we lose seats in 14, forget about it.

One of these days Boner et. al. are going to call his bluff, and then we're well & truly fucked.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:50 PM

101. Don't Take this Lying Down

Call the WH and tell them what you think

Phone202) 456-1111

Call Congress and tell them what you think

http://www.contactingthecongress.org/

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 01:00 PM

104. Thank goodness the Republicans can't take yes for an answer.

If they accepted half of the "compromises" they've been offered these last several years, we'd all be in deep trouble.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 01:05 PM

105. We point our finger at the wrong person

 

Instead of pointing our finger at the Republicans for not taking a deal to get us out of this mess, we point our fingers at Obama for offering this deal in the first place. And some how when all is played out, we let the Republicans off the hook, for not taking this deal.

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #105)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 01:28 PM

110. It's a horrific deal. thank goodness the repukes won't take it.

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Response to cali (Reply #110)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:20 PM

117. Party of 'no'

 

"GOP Rejects proposal, seen as party of 'no' while Obama is seen as compromising and willing to disappoint his base."

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/obama-budget-medicare-social-security-89658.html

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #105)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 04:16 PM

126. That's what bother me

The Republicans are the reason it even has to be needed to make a deal of some kind. There is a down side to not making a deal, and then it would still be the President who gets all the blame/credit. People need to learn about the separation of powers or find a way to emotionally accept its reality. It's getting old and tired. Get the damn Republicans out of office in 2014. Instead, they'll just indulge in this kind of venting.

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #105)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:43 PM

143. Frankly, I'm glad they're NOT taking it at this point . . .

. . . I mean, if they actually said "yes" to it, we'd be royally fucked. The President is playing with fire on this one.

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #143)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:49 PM

146. But that's not the point

 

Of course we're glad they didn't take the deal. But why didn't they take the deal? Answer that, and you will be pointing your finger where the blame belongs.

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #146)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:54 PM

147. I know all about why they're not talking the deal . . .

. . . and the point you are missing is that by continuing to offer cuts S/S, regardless of how well this ultimately plays out, the President gives the argument, in the public discourse, a credibility it should never be given.

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #147)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 06:10 PM

148. I don't put much weight in whether something is on the table or off the table

 

You can put something on the table, and you can take it off the table.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 01:30 PM

111. The Joe Biden quote

http://boldprogressives.org/vice-president-joe-biden-in-august-there-will-be-no-changes-to-social-security/#.UV8JzsoiuUk

“Number one, I guarantee you, flat guarantee you, there will be no changes in Social Security,” Biden said, per a pool report. “I flat guarantee you.”

I'm much closer to making that my sig.

Edit: I should have posted here, this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022618217#post50

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 02:42 PM

112. After the campaign, the President returned to his fairly far right-of-center governance

which should really not be much of a surprise to anyone. BHO, imo, had the opportunity to be regard by history as one of the five greatest president ever had he eradicated as much of the damage inflicted by junior as possible, but he has rather chosen to ratify much of junior's legacy rather than expunge it to the extent possible. The litany of examples is evident for all to see. All this said, BHO has been infinitely better for America than any Republican would have been imo, but it shows just how far to the right politics now are, thanks in no small part to the government having the apparatus in place to have been bought by monied interests and it now acts almost solely in the interest of the uber-wealthy, large corporations, and the oligarchs rather than the people. EOS, for it's the end of government of the people, by the people, and for the people that promotes the general welfare. This nation, imo, won't be recognizable in twenty-five years, but I'm of the age not to be around to see what ultimate fruits right-wing governance since the Gipper will have created by then.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 02:45 PM

113. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!






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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:40 PM

119. K&R



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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:46 PM

120. IF it is a political move.....it's the stupidest thing I have ever seen a smart man do.

He just handed the Senate to the Repubs in 2014 and the Presidency in 2016.

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Response to yourout (Reply #120)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 04:03 PM

123. Alienating your base to demonstrate the already known for the n-teenth time...makes no sense

I can't see the value in again demonstrating the republicans are the party of NO.

I particularly can't see how the value of that rerun overcomes the cost of tremendous alienation within his party's base...a base that must turn out to make the gains in the 2014 elections Obama needs if he is actually going to achieve anything significant in this term.



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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 04:43 PM

130. A rich guy gambling with the lives of the poor. nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 04:43 PM

131. Elderly Social Security recipients like me can't take the increase in BP

I'm sure this is causing.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #131)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 07:38 PM

153. I think the plan is to be done with us..if we dont have a stroke they'll freeze or starve us

not quite what you had in mind during your golden years, is it?

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Response to xiamiam (Reply #153)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:40 PM

160. or maybe put us out on the ice floes while there still are some eom

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:28 PM

138. Not even 20% tax increases directly.

 

Indirectly, through closing some deductions.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:43 PM

144. The White House already brews beer.

Now they can have White House brand cat food, too.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:49 PM

145. It`s like a National Ping Pong championship with President Obama.

Left-right, left-right, left-right. By the time you decide which side the ball is on....whack....it`s on the other side again.

President Obama is not a leader, he`s a compulsive modifier. He goes along to get along even if it means he has to betray the very people who voted him into the White House.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 06:14 PM

149. It's getting harder and harder to defend his bullshit...

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 06:51 PM

152. Now is the time to hold his feet to the fire. Here is the Move On letter:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022621710


(Actually, the President has said time & again that he needs us to hold his feet to the fire.)

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 07:53 PM

155. Besides it's no way to start the bargain. The Grand Bargain is "we will cut SS if you promise not to

stab us in the eye."

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:04 PM

156. Past tense? Were are now getting pre-emptively hysterical?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:16 PM

157. Grandma, Meet Cliff.

Who's playing chicken? Who blinks first? Who won the Election?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:28 PM

159. "If this were a dictatorship it would be a heck of a lot easier... as long as I'm the dictator. Hehe

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:51 PM

164. Wow; you people have hit the nail on the head

Although I don't agree with a lot of stuff here, I can agree wholeheartly about this. The corporations really rule the world. I became enlightened a few months ago about something that most of you have known a long time: all of our interactions with other countries has nothing to do about "democracy" or freedom or other such b.s. It's totally connected to how much those other countries lets capitalism get it's claws into their sociaty. I puzzled over why we hated Venezuela or Cuba and yet tolerated China. They were all communist countries so why the difference? Then it hit me: it had nothing to do with their form of government but how willing they were to welcome in capitalist corporations. It all made sense then. It explained clearly why we treat countries the way we do. Those countries that we punish or make war with are the same ones that refuse to let in our corporate masters. I'm starting to suspect our sanctions and subsequent conflict with North Korea has something to do with this as well. They don't want our capitalism and that's why they must fall.

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Response to pandadug (Reply #164)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:00 PM

166. Good first post, we are all figuring it out as you are doing. You described very well the

process people have been going through and the conclusions you have to come to once you begin to pay attention.

Welcome to DU! :hI:

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #166)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:30 PM

169. Thank you for the welcome :)

I come here to get the liberal viewpoint from a lot of smart people who aren't afraid of telling it like it is. I don't consider myself a liberal or a conservative; my beliefs are a mixture of both. It's frustrating going to comment sections on sites like CNN: there's either liberal zombies or conservative zombies. They will never listen to the other side and can never change their minds about what they believe; like religious fanatics. Personally, I know that I'll never know the answers about the world before I go, but I'm still searching for them.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:59 PM

165. The elderly and disabled are so fun to play with

Fucking disgusting.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:33 PM

170. The"far left"are "trying to stop the President from showing leadership in entitlement reform"

That According to the consensus of mainstream media and all respectable opinion. Not my opinion of course - but the opinion almost any of the so-called sensible and practical Democrats who are taken seriously on any of he Sunday morning infotainment roundtable discussions.

Mark my word - whoever wins the Democratic nomination in 2016 will be the same thing all over again. Whoever the media takes seriously as a possible presidential candidate in 2016 - it will be the same thing all over again.

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #170)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:12 PM

171. The country won't long survive this neoliberal shit

He is a Republican in all but name. No longer is there a desire for the GOP to rig elections; their neoliberal ilk have infiltrated the Democratic Party and driven it so far to the right it is unrecognizable.

I wish people would wake the hell up.

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Response to duffyduff (Reply #171)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:43 PM

175. More and more are waking

up. Some never will till it's too late.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:06 AM

176. One notch lower for mankind, President Obama. n/t

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:33 AM

179. I couldn't agree more...

Even if Obama is using SS and MC as pieces in some 3-dimensional chess game (which I haven't decided if that's the case or not), you don't offer up these two programs, which basically define us as a party. It's sort of like offering up your child as bait to catch a child predator.

In a normal world we would be talking about strengthening SS and Medicare for all.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 03:28 AM

181. +1000 nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 08:00 AM

189. kick nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Apr 7, 2013, 10:11 PM

194. kick

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Apr 7, 2013, 10:31 PM

195. Boehner has already rejected it.

Proof to the American people that Republicans are not serious about fixing the deficit. Opening the door for Dems to re-take the House in 2014.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jan 26, 2014, 04:38 PM

196. If Hillary is against raising the cap then I won't vote for her.

We need to strengthen SS not diminish it. Same goes for Medicare .. Hopefully Bernie will run for president. But then of course, as an independent, he won't be allowed to participate in any debates. Someone needs to stick it to Hillary on this issue. But then what keeps them from lying in the first place .. you know ''I never said that" kind of dialogue. Obama campaigned to the left and look where he sits on the political spectrum. Third Way ..Neo liberal bullshit indeed.

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