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Wed Apr 3, 2013, 11:53 PM

Please: everyone on DU needs to see the following post...

You know the scary fact that SS will not pay full benefits unless we cut benefits nownownow, or raise the cap? Well the odds of SS being unable to pay full benefits during the next 75 years are virtually nil, if we do nothing. That's right, Social Security is likely fully-funded for at least 75 years; the calls for cuts nownownow to stave off dire crisis are unmitigated bullshit.

Geithner and Obama's other appointees used crazy assumptions to concoct projections that would prove that SS is in trouble, so We The People would be OK with our earned benefits getting cut. This, in turn, would allow our $3 trillion trust fund to be handed to Pete Peterson, the bankers, and the rest of the Predator Class.

The Shock Doctrine strikes again! Fuck that!

So PLEASE read and rec the following post that explains all of this, so everyone on DU understands this monstrous lie:

Day 4 SSD blogathon: SS is not going broke by 2033, stop saying it Dems

And send it to friends and family. They'll thank you when they're not eating nasty cat food.

71 replies, 8424 views

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Arrow 71 replies Author Time Post
Reply Please: everyone on DU needs to see the following post... (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 OP
rug Apr 2013 #1
MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 #5
NRaleighLiberal Apr 2013 #2
MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 #6
NRaleighLiberal Apr 2013 #7
NYC_SKP Apr 2013 #3
L0oniX Apr 2013 #8
KoKo Apr 2013 #30
lark Apr 2013 #41
MADem Apr 2013 #4
sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #9
lark Apr 2013 #42
zeeland Apr 2013 #10
drm604 Apr 2013 #11
Demo_Chris Apr 2013 #12
delrem Apr 2013 #13
kentuck Apr 2013 #66
forestpath Apr 2013 #14
KennedyBrothers Apr 2013 #15
sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #16
xtraxritical Apr 2013 #27
Ron Obvious Apr 2013 #38
xtraxritical Apr 2013 #40
dawg Apr 2013 #46
xchrom Apr 2013 #17
woo me with science Apr 2013 #18
WillyT Apr 2013 #19
idwiyo Apr 2013 #20
zipplewrath Apr 2013 #21
G_j Apr 2013 #22
Oilwellian Apr 2013 #23
KoKo Apr 2013 #36
deutsey Apr 2013 #24
sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #25
deutsey Apr 2013 #26
Dragonfli Apr 2013 #53
deutsey Apr 2013 #67
bvar22 Apr 2013 #28
bahrbearian Apr 2013 #34
Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2013 #37
Doctor_J Apr 2013 #29
dotymed Apr 2013 #31
MotherPetrie Apr 2013 #32
bvar22 Apr 2013 #35
Flatulo Apr 2013 #39
MotherPetrie Apr 2013 #33
hedgehog Apr 2013 #43
Zorra Apr 2013 #44
SalviaBlue Apr 2013 #45
AndyTiedye Apr 2013 #47
Ron Obvious Apr 2013 #48
AndyTiedye Apr 2013 #50
Ron Obvious Apr 2013 #51
Jakes Progress Apr 2013 #49
Doctor_J Apr 2013 #69
JackHughes Apr 2013 #52
JDPriestly Apr 2013 #54
louslobbs Apr 2013 #55
former9thward Apr 2013 #56
Number23 Apr 2013 #57
DaveJ Apr 2013 #58
DaveJ Apr 2013 #59
senseandsensibility Apr 2013 #60
mountain grammy Apr 2013 #61
Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #62
HCE SuiGeneris Apr 2013 #63
steve2470 Apr 2013 #64
Liberal_Dog Apr 2013 #65
glinda Apr 2013 #68
HiPointDem Apr 2013 #70
myrna minx Apr 2013 #71

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2013, 11:56 PM

1. You need to fix your link.

It goes to Post a New Discussion Thread.

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Response to rug (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 12:02 AM

5. Yikes! Sorry! Fixed! Nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2013, 11:56 PM

2. It is indeed an important read...but the link in your OP doesn't take one to the right place (for me

anyway).

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 12:03 AM

6. Fixed, sorry! nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 12:03 AM

7. great - thanks!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2013, 11:58 PM

3. We need to raise the cap, and need to increase payments.

And we need to provide medicare for all, fully funded.

Raising or removing the cap is the way to do it.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 12:04 AM

8. +99

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 01:15 PM

30. But, the PTB do not push for Raising the Cap...it's always about

the Deficit and the FIX is to do Chained CPI. Obama is on record many times but he doesn't mention raising the cap..

I agree with you....! But, it's never proposed...as the simple solution because the Deficit Hawks and Wall Streeters in the Admin and out there on the Business Sites want Austerity and Privatization of SS/Medicare. So far they are winning...but, I notice a push back action from other groups urging us to call the WH Now!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 03:04 PM

41. With you 100%

This makes so much sense, but of course you never hear about this from any politician, unless it's Grayson or Sherrod Brown. It will never happen, though, the millionaires will always protect their own (the other 1%ers) and fuck the rest of us.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2013, 11:58 PM

4. Kicking to give you an opportunity to FIX YOUR LINK. nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 12:11 AM

9. Here is the link. Posting the url for you:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/03/28/1197514/-Day-4-SSD-blogathon-SS-is-not-going-broke-by-2033-stop-saying-it-Dems

You are right, everyone needs to read it and send it to as many people as they can.

Now Remember the Low Cost Scenario says SS is good thru 2090.

Real GDP:

When we look at 2 scenarios, Low Cost (2.8%), Intermediate cost 2.1% and compare GDP the low cost should not be thought of as unattainable. Much conventional wisdom say 3% to 3.5% is about the best we can do with Energy and Resource constraints. Once we reach 20% from Solar and 20% from Wind, renewables will dominate the market. And be cheaper. And help the Economy.

And what happens to the labor market as the Boomers retire, the labor market tightens up and employers will start competing for workers, this will help drive wage growth, which means more FICA.

If GDP grows at 2.6% over 20 years, but inflation is a it less than predicted in the low cost scenario, we can still get to 2090. Or if inflation is worse than expected, but Wage growth and job creation are real good, we still can get to 2090. (Remember real good job growth coupled with real good wage growth will spur some inflation.)


Nothing really new here, we know that SS is not in trouble, doesn't need to be 'fixed' and we should be increasing, not decreasing, benefits.

And why, why, why is anyone, let alone any Democrat even mentioning SS in the same sentence as the Deficit??

One more time: SS Had, has nothing to with the deficit. Anyone saying that, hinting at it, just mentioning those two issues together to create the impression that it did, is LYING!

The lies persist.

It is shameful that we have to keep correcting the lies about SS.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 03:06 PM

42. Shameful indeed!

Shameful that our Democratic president is the person pushing this so hard. WTF???

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 01:13 AM

10. K&R

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 01:18 AM

11. K&R

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 02:15 AM

12. rec

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 02:16 AM

13. You don't cut benefits you paid for! They're paid for!

It's like any insurance policy, it's the whole point.

No country that has even the least respect for the notion of a mixed socialist/capitalist economy - which is the kind of economy enjoyed by a country that has such things as a SS program - would let the democratic gov't of the people renege on the social programs the people paid into. That just isn't done. On the contrary, countries that enjoy a mixed economy assign auditors, and auditors general, to ensure that moneys designated for social project X, and paid by the taxpayer in good faith for project X, be used wisely in pursuit of project X. And those auditors are assigned, at precise intervals, to report back to *the people* (not to some close gov't committee!) with their findings, and their * recommendations*. That is how it *must be*. Those moneys can't be just taken out of their specific account willy nilly and dispersed to general revenue, to pay for e.g. wars of choice, of aggression, or bank bailouts, or whatever. That isn't how a mixed economy works! No mixed economy can possibly work that way.

Even if some of the political parties despise the notion of socialist programs like social security (or a national health plan if the country is progressive enough to have one, etc) and such a ridiculously backward party got into power, it'd be obliged to pay back in full to the people who paid into SS exactly according as the terms of their payments - just as it'd have to pay back in full to people who bought gov't bonds. If this obligation weren't recognized the people would be totally fuxored every time a bunch of right-wing bandits sneaked into power. How could any democracy work that way???

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Response to delrem (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 10:44 PM

66. BINGO!

Sorry for the Caps...

But this poster is absolutely right. So long as there are workers in this country, they are paying into a Social Security fund. If the politicians in Washington, mainly those on the far right, want to cut programs and balance the budget, let them start someplace else. That is all.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 02:36 AM

14. k&r

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 02:57 AM

15. Uncap!

Income above $113,700 should be subject to Social Security taxes, too.


Some background: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/09/1185875/-Clear-line-between-middle-class-and-wealthy-113-700

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Response to KennedyBrothers (Reply #15)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 09:20 AM

16. That's such an obvious thing to do you would think we would hear someone

in office mention it.

The question is, why is this fund, which belongs to the people mentioned at all when they claim to be concerned about the Fed Govt's deficit. SS has nothing to do with that.

Welcome to DU

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 11:55 AM

27. Bernies Sanders and Gov. Kasich have been outspoken on the topic.

 

The House Progressive caucus has a budget proposal with "hands off" SS and Med. and raises the "cap" on income too.

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Response to KennedyBrothers (Reply #15)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 02:32 PM

38. I don't know much about SS...

But wouldn't that also increase the payouts down the road for those who paid into SS above the current cap? Would it help, hurt, or break even?

The problem really is 40 years of wage stagnation in my opinion.

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Response to Ron Obvious (Reply #38)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 02:50 PM

40. Yes that's a big part, raising the minimum wage would be a large help too.

 

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Response to Ron Obvious (Reply #38)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 03:36 PM

46. It would raise the payouts, but it would still help the program's solvency.

Due to the progressive nature of the program, benefits increase much less for taxes paid beyond certain "bend" points.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 09:30 AM

17. du rec. nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 09:53 AM

19. K & R !!!


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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 09:56 AM

20. K&R

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 09:57 AM

21. I didn't need to see that.

Just sayin'......

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 10:01 AM

22. K&R

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 10:06 AM

23. Petition and White House letter signed

Link to White House petition:

Link to White House Letter

Sign, sign, sign!

Thanks Manny and FogerRox!

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #23)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 01:45 PM

36. *** Two Actions You Can Take!--Preserve SS & Medicare & No Chained CPI!--***

(Either or both of these actions would alert the White House and Congress that there is Opposition out there)

----------
ACTION FROM AMERICAN FAMILY VOICES:

Friend -

For the last few months, lawmakers have thrown around the ideas of “chained CPI” and “changing the CPI” to balance the budget. But what does that actually mean?

It means cuts to Social Security, and a kick in the gut to elderly Americans and their caregivers.


The CPI is a formula involving inflation and the cost of living; benefits for Social Security are based on that CPI. What “chained CPI” means is “chaining” the cost of living to the today's current costs, and not adjusting them as things like gas, rent, food and other basics become more expensive.

The White House is considering chained CPI to balance the budget, to compromise in a “grand bargain.” This isn’t a grand bargain. This is an awful idea.

Together, we can stop this. Call the White House at 202-456-1414 and tell them: no cuts to Social Security.

We need to tell the President that making cuts to these programs is taking a step backwards – it would be terrible policy, and terrible politics. We cannot allow this “grand bargain” to strip away our benefits.

The White House will release its budget in the next few days.

Our national budget should show our values, including financial security for ourselves and our families. If we stick together, we can find a better solution for our budget without making these awful cuts.

So we need your help now. Call the White House at 202-456-1414 and tell them: no cuts to Social Security.

Mike Lux
American Family Voices

---------------------------
----------------------------

SENATOR SHERROD BROWN'S CALL FOR ACTION

Dear Friend,

Good news: The Senate voted down the radical Ryan Budget the House sent over.

Bad news: That's not going to be enough to stop efforts to end Medicare as we know it.

This is the third time in as many years extreme Republicans have tried to turn Medicare into a voucher system. And trust me, it won't be the last.

We need to keep fighting. It's the only way to protect our seniors, protect our working families, and make sure we have the resources it takes to keep winning.


I still need your help. Click here to add your name and tell radical Republicans to stop attacking Medicare and start working toward real solutions.

http://action.sherrodbrown.com/page/m/302fed35/444ad60e/705e6c7/20083a19/2929230096/VEsE/

This year's version of the Ryan Budget went down on a bipartisan basis, but the special interest groups that fuel these radical ideas -- the same ones that spent millions of dollars attacking us last year -- haven't gone anywhere.

Their next attack on our seniors, or our working families, is just around the corner. And we need to be there to stop them.


Make sure your voice is heard. Add your name to the petition right now. And if you can, consider contributing a few dollars to help us grow our grassroots support.

Thank you for helping me stand up for seniors and families.



Sherrod


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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 10:08 AM

24. Bush's attempt to grab SS money for Wall Street failed

and so should the current attempt.

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Response to deutsey (Reply #24)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 10:17 AM

25. Bush's attempt failed because the Left went ballistic over it.

It's always been under attack from the Pete Petersens of this country, but we had Democrats to protect against these attempts. I don't know for sure, but this seems to me to be the first time that Democrats have been so silent when they should be screaming about the obvious attempts to lie to the people by connecting it to the Deficit, which is a downright lie. But other than a few, like Bernie Sanders, I haven't heard the kind of outrage we heard when Bush tried it.

Using Dems to finally achieve the goal of privatizing SS should be slapped down with a warning that the people will work to throw out anyone who even tries to touch that fund. They have no right to do so, it belongs to the people. Inviting enemies of SS onto the Deficit Commission, allowing Pete Peterson and his ilk to have access to that Commission, was one of the worst mistakes ever concerning SS. It was like letting the foxes into the hen house finally.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 10:25 AM

26. Yep, that was my hastily made point

Who ever the fuck is trying to hijack our money needs to be stopped, I don't care who they are.

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Response to deutsey (Reply #24)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 05:12 PM

53. The current attempt might not fail exactly because a Dem instead of Bush is in office

Much like welfare was destroyed, banks deregulated, and free trade were passed under Clinton.

When Republicans push absurd ideas intended to make the poor even poorer, and the rich, quite a bit richer, they can't get it past the public's opposition. When a Democrat starts pimping the very same things, half the Democrats do a 180 in order to unquestioningly support their party leader, that along with very strong support from Republicans adds up to bipartisan hand holding and a promise that not only is the check in the mail, but it will all be fixed later. That is the true danger of DLC/3rd Way/blue dog conservative ideas and triangulation, At least IMO

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #53)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 11:03 PM

67. Sad but true. We all need to wake the fuck up.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 12:10 PM

28. If you support "Raising the Cap", you should have voted for THIS guy!



What ever happened to THAT guy?
That guy would have been a great President.







You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their promises.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #28)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 01:24 PM

34. Living in the White House must really change people.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #28)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 01:51 PM

37. Wow. Just wow.

Well at least he brought both sides together. He kept THAT promise.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 12:28 PM

29. the FACT is that this president is going to hand SS over to Wall Street

from hope to disappointment to disgrace.

My one remaining hope is that before he does this, he changes his party affiliation. I don't want my party associated with it.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #29)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 01:15 PM

31. +1000

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Response to dotymed (Reply #31)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 01:22 PM

32. x10

 

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #32)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 01:44 PM

35. X10

How FAR the Party of the Working Class has fallen!!!

It took a Nixon to go to China.
It will take a Democrat to dismember one of the last remaining legacies of the New Deal. The Republicans could have NEVER gotten away with it.


"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the Fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign."

---President Harry Truman
QED:2010


Leadership! "The Buck Stops HERE!" NO Excuses!

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #29)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 02:35 PM

39. I had not heard that Obama was considering privatizing part

of the SS trust fund!

I know that Wall Street was salivating over getting this money under Bush, but if the current POTUS supports this, he should be ashamed.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 01:22 PM

33. K&R

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 03:06 PM

43. Kick!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 03:26 PM

44. It's Third Way Math: $3,000,000,000,000 x 99% = 1%

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 03:31 PM

45. K&R

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 03:37 PM

47. Remove the Cap and SS Will be Solvent Forever

The cap is what makes the payroll tax regressive. Removing the cap would make it more equitable,
and would ensure that Social Security would be solvent forever, even under the most pessimistic scenarios.

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Response to AndyTiedye (Reply #47)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 03:53 PM

48. I suspect...

I suspect what would happen in that case, is that companies would shift their high earners pay into bonuses and stock options. We could pre-empt that by making all sources of income subject to payroll taxes, but that would be a hard one to pass in our political system I would imagine.

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Response to Ron Obvious (Reply #48)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 04:34 PM

50. Bonuses and Most Stock Options ALREADY ARE Subject to Payroll Tax

Bonuses are treated the same as regular salary, and non-qualified stock options are subject to payroll tax when exercised.
Qualified stock options are a potential loophole that could be closed.

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Response to AndyTiedye (Reply #50)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 04:35 PM

51. Didn't know. Thanks. n/t

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Response to AndyTiedye (Reply #47)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 03:54 PM

49. But the rich don't get the money if you do that.

So it won't happen. Our congress and administration work for the rich. If you ain't one, then you don't get a say.

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Response to AndyTiedye (Reply #47)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:42 AM

69. Cut the unemployment rate in half and SS Will be Solvent Forever

raising the cap is a good idea too, but you wouldn't even have to do that if more people were working

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 05:08 PM

52. Strategy

Remember, it's hard to raise taxes -- it's relatively easy to raise Social Security and Medicare benefits.

The strategy is getting the Republicans to agree to tax hikes on the rich.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 05:20 PM

54. Meanwhile the cuts in the federal budget are going to throw the

country into another bout of recession.

Obama has goofed big time on this by agreeing to the need to cut the budget. He should be fighting this instead of acquiescing to the cuts and even voluntarily cutting his own pay.

The cuts are sending us right down the road that Spain took.

It's a huge mistake. Spain has an excuse. We don't.

Obama did well against big odds in his first term, but I fear he will be viewed like Hoover after this term.

Mind you. I understand that the budget has to be passed by Congress and that, really, the Republicans in the House and the conservatives in the Senate are to blame.

But I also know that Obama is not screaming nearly loudly enough against the drastic cuts.

Obama should be touring not only in support of gun legislation but against the budget cuts that will send us into another recession.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 06:08 PM

55. K&R n/t

Lou

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 06:16 PM

56. The link in the OP is being unrealistically optimistic about GNP.

They are assuming over 3%. There is no evidence that will happen. The post WW II economic boom for the U.S. is over and not coming back.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 06:22 PM

57. I always find it interesting that you often feel the need to publicize certain posts

Someone will post something and it gets the attention that it gets.

Then you decide that it should get more attention, and post your "please read and K&R this post" and then suddenly it gets more attention.

It makes me wonder, do certain people here only care about this stuff because you tell them to? And it is a coincidence that they also often appear to be the same people that designate Obama supporters as "cultists?" What does this behavior say about them? I also find it interesting that in every single instance that you've said to people "go read and K*R this post" that your post telling them to do so always gets more recs than the post that you are trying to draw their attention to, and always around the same number of recs too.

Weird!

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Response to Number23 (Reply #57)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 08:18 PM

58. Yeah interesting

you might be reading too much into it though.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 08:22 PM

59. The thing is, SS is not enough to retire on anyway.

Ok maybe there are some who do it, but SS is really designed to avoid the elderly living on the streets in the unlikely scenario they are unable to work and have nothing. It's not a retirement plan.

So they are talking about lowering it a little? Obviously that's just to make us work harder. We all know that. But the larger issue is how are we going to retire, not just how are we going to avoid being homeless. Again, I know some can "retire" on SS but that's really astounding to me, I suspect they have support from other sources that some do not.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 08:31 PM

60. That Reagan guy David Stockman (is that his name?) was on MSNBC today

and said that there is no trust fund, it's gone. No one on The Cycle corrected him that I heard.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 08:55 PM

61. No kidding, now stop the crap, raise the cap, and extend Medicare to all!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 09:04 PM

62. It would be wonderful if those optimistic GDP growth predictions are correct.

I hope they are.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 09:19 PM

63. K & R

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 09:20 PM

64. k&r nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 09:59 PM

65. K & R

Thanks Manny!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 11:31 PM

68. K & R n/t

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:44 AM

70. kr, it's all a fucking scam.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:44 AM

71. This is making me sick to my stomach.

I feel so betrayed.

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