liberals, libertarians and family

[arely staircase]

I have been a major critic of libertarians, as I am a socialist by American standards - probably moderate/conservative by European standards. but my sister has married a libertarian. we are eye to eye on drug war, foreign interventionism, marriage equality etc. but as far apart on the social safety net as I would be with any republican. and while I will still stand by my principals on those issues I will no longer bash the libertarians as a whole as I do the religious right.

success in a republican democracy means making alliances. and while I will always be an fdr/carter/Clinton.obama democrat, I have pledged myself to finding common ground without compromising my beliefs, with those who agree with me on individual freedoms.

[2ndAmForComputers]

1. No.

Fuck them.

[lunasun]

4. +1 As they would fuck us

[Orrex]

12. And they would charge us for it.

There is no such thing as a Right Libertarian who is not an asshole. If you meet one who is not an asshole, then either:

1. He isn't really a Libertarian
or
2. You haven't really met him

Additionally, there is no such thing as a Left Libertarian. If you meet one, then either:

1. He isn't really a Libertarian (at least not in the modern, relevant sense)
or
2. Libertarian doesn't mean what he thinks it means

[Jamaal510]

15. Not according to politicalcompass.org

"Additionally, there is no such thing as a Left Libertarian."

According to their test results, a person can be either on the right or the left, and still lean either libertarian or authoritarian.

[Orrex]

18. I'll believe it when I see it

If they exist in America, Left Libertarians should pick a new designation or else be prepared to embrace their hard-Right brethren.

[NRaleighLiberal]

2. I will bash on, because their basic tenet is "I have mine, screw you".

A few issues here and there don't make up for the selfish core of their so-called ideology.

[Johonny]

3. The thing is I really don't see eye to eye on these issues

I might be for the decriminalization of drugs but I certainly don't want a libertarian approach to pharmaceutical companies... I mean a functioning FDA is a nice thing to have.

I might not want to blast every country to steal it's oil but I think I benefit when we give aid to wipe out Polio or Malaria as well as the many other foreign aid projects our country gives. Rand Paul for instance wanted to cut foreign aid to cover infrastructure short fall. I'm not a xenophobic isolationist.

I believe in marriage equality but libertarians want the government out of marriage. No civil unions, basically no government oversight of contracts. If your husband leaves you with the four kids and buggers off... sucks to be you. It's freedom man. No obligations. You can laugh but libertarian friends posted just this last week.

In short I believe in individual freedom, but I believe that without a basic framework to support these individual freedoms you end up with either anarchy or more likely freedom for a small select few over the control of others. So no I just don't have much common ground with libertarians. I don't mind being seen as an authoritarian. In reality most people see the world as a mix of these philosophies and others.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. People don't want to see it

But if you look far enough, you will also find a libertarian that agrees with you on the social net as well.

There are RW libertarians, which is the first thing almost to a member DU'ers think about, and th. yiu get the left wing types...they are just not as loud.

Pm coming by the way

[arely staircase]

6. not the ones i am talking about

they would dismantle social security along with the war machine. however, my point is we should form coalitions wherever we can. the GOP is one bad election cycle from complete collapse and I see no reason to demonize people who are also fighting that same establishment.

[Ikonoklast]

8. Just remember one thing:

When dealing with coalitions that are only tangentially connected by having a mutual enemy, it is advantageous to kill off the larger opponent first, as a coalition member.

Then you can turn on your erstwhile ally after the more powerful opponent is disposed of.

Libertarians would let their own grandmothers die of starvation, fuck 'em.

[Egalitarian Thug]

7. The problem with Libertarianism that Libertarians don't get is that it can't exist without an

established society and it can never itself establish a society.

In essence, Libertarianism is a philosophy of parasitism. It comes along after the socialistic creation of a civilization to feed off the benefits of that civilization.

[sadbear]

9. Libertarians may agree with us on a few things,

but not for the same reasons, and that is an important distinction.

They may be right about the results, but if they're wrong about the reasons why, they're still wrong.

[Jamaal510]

16. Even on

the things that we supposedly "agree" on, they don't really go far enough when you think about it. For example, I doubt it's so much that libertarians favor drug legalization; they just don't want the drug laws to be enforced federally. They might be OK with the Drug War being waged by individual states. It is interesting to note that none of them ever advocate drug legalization nationwide.
They have also been quiet about individual states making it harder to vote and for women to have access to birth control; pretty much denying people individual freedoms and basic rights. These people HATE federal government, but they're OK with individual states passing unfair laws because, you know...it's "freedom".

[liberal_at_heart]

10. I don't see anything wrong with working with someone on an individual issue that both can agree on.

I would work with a libertarian on ending the drug war and foreign intervention. I would not work with them on abortion issues, education, or social safety nets. You know libertarians who are for marriage equality? I thought most of them were against abortion and gay marriage.

[Ichingcarpenter]

11. ibertarians

[forestpath]

13. I have both libertarians and republicans in my family.

I would no more ally myself with a libertarian than I would with a republican. Two sides of the same "I've got mine, screw you" coin.

[FSogol]

14. Isn't anyone going to say it? Fuck Ron Paul!

Fuck Rand Paul too!

[etherealtruth]

17. Social justice, human rights and safety nets for the least privileged among us

... are non-negotiable for me.

(as an example) I try to find common ground with some gun proponents (especially on DU). In some cases we share common beliefs and have shared ideals on many subjects (often the things I find non-negotiable) ... those people are worth finding common ground with. With them I can agree to disagree (vehemently disagree).