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Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:03 PM

OWS is the Single Most Relevant Movement to Change Politics in America for the Better

It's simple. They've already done so, they have already opened up dialog about the 1% and how the 1% manipulates the entire country. Already, the Republicans are talking about Wall Street. Already, Obama plans to turn the anti-Wall Street sentiment against the Republicans. Already both parties are flying the anti-Wall Street banner.

What more is there to say? That a few kids acting autonomously after having their comerades razed by police, with tear gas, rubber bullets, and hundreds detained via illegal and unconstutional means are, themselves, going to marginalize the movement? Because, frankly, emotions were very high and people were not behaving rationally? I highly doubt it.

There have been numerous flag burning incidents in Occupy. One at Occupy Chicago, small scale, paper flag. One at Occupy Denver. Three at Occupy Oakland port closure. One Occupy Oakland City Hall. Two at Occupy Charlotte. This most recent incident is merely being hyped as a way to marginalize Occupy by the media. Why? Because if the Occupy narrative is allowed to continue, the Republicans have no leg to stand on. The media needs the narrative to be "close." If it's not "close" then there's nothing to talk about. There's no "down to the wire" coverage. As soon as FL polls close in Nov. the media will have to call it for Obama, and that'll be the end of it. How can someone like Romney (not to even mention the idiot Newt) pretend to even have anything in common with anti-Wall Street views? How can anyone even take that with a grain of salt? Even the most ardent Republicans know that is total bullshit. Hell, the consistent 30% of conservatives who vote for the fascist time and time again aren't even that stupid.

Finally, I leave you with a book entitled "Flag burning: moral panic and the criminalization of protest." You can get a link here: http://books.google.com/books?id=s5btT1HO60kC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

You can read the introduction on Google Books for free. I emplore you to read the entire overview of the movement, and this extra overview of the book: http://www.professormichaelwelch.com/flagburn.html

Truly, moral panic is the pure definition of what is happening here. And it's almost entirely fabricated, because, as I said, this not the first time it's happened, it will not be the last time it happens, and all in all we're just eating our own over trivialities. OWS has already changed the narrative, and as the summer comes around (and as they become introspective and start to oust those who make bad PR decisions; but there will always be someone who does something stupid), it will only get stronger.

You should not chastise a movement, a group, or a society on the actions of a few in said movements, groups or societies. To do so shows a complete lack of perspective or proportion.

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Arrow 47 replies Author Time Post
Reply OWS is the Single Most Relevant Movement to Change Politics in America for the Better (Original post)
joshcryer Feb 2012 OP
mdmc Feb 2012 #1
gopiscrap Feb 2012 #2
joshcryer Feb 2012 #3
99th_Monkey Feb 2012 #4
bullwinkle428 Feb 2012 #7
99th_Monkey Feb 2012 #9
joshcryer Feb 2012 #8
99th_Monkey Feb 2012 #10
joshcryer Feb 2012 #16
99th_Monkey Feb 2012 #19
Bonobo Feb 2012 #5
sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #6
Bluenorthwest Feb 2012 #11
unionworks Feb 2012 #12
backscatter712 Feb 2012 #13
joshcryer Feb 2012 #14
99th_Monkey Feb 2012 #20
kenfrequed Feb 2012 #29
Starry Messenger Feb 2012 #15
Cali_Democrat Feb 2012 #17
Raffi Ella Feb 2012 #18
donheld Feb 2012 #21
joshcryer Feb 2012 #25
bvar22 Feb 2012 #30
joshcryer Feb 2012 #32
Yo_Mama Feb 2012 #22
Uncle Joe Feb 2012 #23
SmileyRose Feb 2012 #24
Bonobo Feb 2012 #26
joshcryer Feb 2012 #27
slay Feb 2012 #28
myrna minx Feb 2012 #31
Spazito Feb 2012 #33
L0oniX Feb 2012 #34
joshcryer Feb 2012 #36
CTyankee Feb 2012 #39
socialist_n_TN Feb 2012 #35
T S Justly Feb 2012 #37
Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2012 #38
CTyankee Feb 2012 #40
joshcryer Feb 2012 #42
T S Justly Feb 2012 #41
Agony Feb 2012 #43
ellisonz Feb 2012 #44
morningfog Feb 2012 #45
whistler162 Feb 2012 #46
joshcryer Feb 2012 #47

Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:07 PM

1. OWS in the house

 

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:08 PM

2. Occupy Tacoma was just notified that

they will be getting evicted.

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:22 PM

3. They are one of the last few who have been allowed to have tents. But as Oakland shows...

...you don't need tents to be able to bring out a thousand people if need be. The shift thing has worked out OK, and it's winter anyway. They need to get inside and prepare for the spring.

Wait and see, it's going to come back in a big way.

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:24 PM

4. I wish I could "rec" this x100. Thank you.

It was so surreal and weirdly satisfying to hear Mittens say "I'm for the 99%"

It not only "made my day", it made my month.

What more proof does anyone need, that OWS everywhere has totally changed the conversation for the better..???

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:28 PM

7. BINGO! Although I think Mitt's direct quote was something like "90 to 95%", you didn't

have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out what he was talking about!

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Response to bullwinkle428 (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:35 PM

9. Actually, it's even a bit more interesting than that

apparently he DID say he supported 99%, but then got some
furious backlash from 1%, and immediately "amended" his
position.

Like this article says ,, he "changes positions "more often than
a porn star with Restless Leg Syndrome".

http://www.mediaite.com/online/they-call-him-flipper-mitt-romney-does-double-flip-on-the-99/

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:32 PM

8. They'll figure out soon enough that it's bad news to align with the "99%" since it won't wash.

At which point they'll make every effort they have to slander and destroy Occupy, since Obama and the Democrats can at least try to show some bit of believable populism (I personally think that if Obama has populist policies he'll make good on them if he can; I don't think 2008 Obama was a populist, and he made good on his moderate policy proposals).

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:40 PM

10. I guess what I love most about this

is how it illustrates the power OWS everywhere is having over the "national conversation"
re: economics & politics.

But I think yur correct in what you say, that it totally doesn't wash .... and that Mitt would
even TRY is hilarious to me and I suspect to many others.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:54 PM

16. Oh yes, it's so delicious it's ridiculous.

What I really like about it is that Romney is a nitwit who just wants to win so he'll move to the center as much as possible, and for Obama to differentiate he'll move to the left even more! So it's going to be hilarious when Romney is talking about how he wants to regulate stuff and whatnot.

Here's the phrase I expect to be seen a lot in a few months.

"SCHOOL'S OUT!"

Occupy is going to get an awesome infusion of young people over the summer. It's going to be so cool.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 10:03 PM

19. Yeppers! Will be most interesting Spring and Summer this year ~nt

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:25 PM

5. Yes, it most certainly is.

Great post and highly recommended!

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:25 PM

6. Good OP, thank you. 'Moral Panic' a good way to describe what is going on, not to mention

the effort from the beginning, as we saw with James O'Keefe and Erin Burnett, to work hard to find anything to use against the this movment. Sad though to see it coming from the 'left'.

K&R

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:41 PM

11. It reminds me of the moral panic around Abbie Hoffmans's 'Flag Shirt'.

"I wore the shirt because I was going before the un-American Activities Committee of the House of Representatives, and I don’t particularly consider that committee American, and I don’t consider that House of Representatives particularly representative. And I wore the shirt to show that we were in the tradition of the founding fathers of this country. I only regret that I have but one shirt to give for my country."

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:41 PM

12. Pay no attention

 

To those trying to smear Occupy on DU.

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:44 PM

13. B-b-b-but... FLAG BURNING!!!

Two douchebags lighting a piece of brainwashing cloth on fire are RUINING THE ENTIRE MOVEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!111oneoneeleven

I think we should start twenty more threads to talk about how Occupy is dying!!!

We must emphasize how concerned we are!!! VERY CONCERNED!!!

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:48 PM

14. I waited for the moral panic to die down before posting this.

I think for the most part the flag burning posts are dead. Mostly pointless bickering over trivialities, imo. It was going to happen anyway, just needed a nice clear AP photograph to spur the outrage. Hopefully we've moved on from that. It'll be interesting to see Occupy detractors defending Occupy as election season nears and Obama channels them for his new populism. It'll be fascinating, really.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 10:05 PM

20. Who knew? .. that a couple of random wanna be boneheads could "spell the end of OWS"?

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 01:24 AM

29. Yes

The concern trolls are out in force on this one. I wonder whose side they actually think they are on?

There are a few dozen posters that could not be made to say something good about OWS if the protesters had saved a bunch of old people from getting evicted from their homes in the winter.

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:54 PM

15. I'm glad I am living to see this.

Thank you for the post joshcryer.

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:57 PM

17. K&R

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Thu Feb 2, 2012, 09:59 PM

18. K&R

“Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has.” -Margaret Mead

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 12:42 AM

21. The sad thing is that too Democrats fail to understand the importance of this movement.

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Response to donheld (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 12:54 AM

25. As it grows over the spring and summer you can expect them to at least channel the rhetoric.

The news media will try to vilify the movement, infiltrators will try to push to vilify the movement, the Republicans will try to vilify the movement, but in the end they'll work on public relations and it won't work.

Now, I know I'm making a lot of proclamations here that have yet to be proven, but, it's still undeniable that they've changed the narrative and put the 99% in public dialog.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #25)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 09:50 AM

30. The Democrats are already trying to "channel the rhetoric".

President Obama's State of the Union Address is evidence.

Compare the recent SOTU to the one from last year.
Before OWS, The White House messaging was ALL about The Deficit, Cutting Government Spending, Austerity, Eating Peas, "Reforming" "Entitlements", and Bi-Partisan Solutions.

DURec & a kick.



Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Response to bvar22 (Reply #30)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 07:46 PM

32. Yes, as I predicted when OWS started, and as I said in the OP.

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 12:50 AM

22. I think it has that potential

I think it can lose that potential if it can't keep its focus on the huge public problems.

I don't think the flag-burning is that much of an issue. as long as Occupy burns its own flags, but frankly, moving toward more confrontational tactics and trying to occupy property that isn't open to the public is a big issue, and isn't really non-violent.

I still consider the national focus of Occupy to be the non-violent engagement with what I can only describe as the marginalization of the public interests (whatever happened to a government of the people, by the people and for the people?), but if Occupy becomes about the Occupiers, it will fail to deliver. And violence will destroy its potential.

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 12:52 AM

23. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, joshcryer.

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 12:54 AM

24. With all due respect

In all of American history?

THE most important?

More important than sufferage? Abolition? Civil rights? Unionization?

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Response to SmileyRose (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 12:56 AM

26. Read the rest of the description.

"to Change Politics in America for the Better"

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Response to SmileyRose (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 12:57 AM

27. Not at all. By relevant here I obviously mean current.

rel·e·vant adj \ˈre-lə-vənt\

1 a : having significant and demonstrable bearing on the matter at hand

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 01:14 AM

28. I agree

 

it's the best, most honest, and most powerful pro-citizen movement i've seen in my lifetime. k&r.

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 09:54 AM

31. K&R - Excellent post. n/t

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 08:01 PM

33. Well said...

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 08:33 PM

34. I don't think the parties realize what is at stake with the OWS movement.

The problem that is common to all parties is that capitalizm has subverted our democracy. I blame Bill Clinton for signing the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1932 for our current depression but at the root of the problem is that our government has been taken over by those with a lot of money. I also blame that low life asscarrot Phil Gramm for bringing up the bill. I also blame Reagan for his trickle down LIE! We know now that the rich put their money into investments that let them be taxed at 13.9 % which is a total rip off of the USA. They've gotten away with it and will continue to do so unless we put a stop to it. We must hold our own leaders, Dem and repuke accountable for allowing this to go on. They are not for us. They are not like us. They don't have our interests at heart. They don't have the downward economic pressure on them. I really don't expect anything to really change anymore. Basically I have given up and I am working on not giving a shit anymore. It is useless and a waste of time ...not to mention the stress it creates to be thinking about it. The only real hope we have is the OWS movement ...and that, only if people join in with it irregardless of a few flag burners or the subversive infiltration from our government. Attack it all you want but in doing so you are dooming our future ...unless you can can up with a real way to fix this ...and I know you can't do that. I do object to the 99% figure. IMO it is really the 90% because the 9% are trying to attain the 1% status and together the 10% are the ones calling all the shots ...unless you have as much or more money than they do ...and I know you don't. So yea, passive civil resistance is the way and it needs to have all of our support ...unless you aspire to attain that top 10% rank. If you do then you are my enemy and IMO an enemy of the people/90%.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #34)

Sat Feb 4, 2012, 06:02 PM

36. I think at least the Democrats are starting to realize.

They're capitalizing on the rhetoric from OWS, and will be forced to keep moving to the left if they want to continue capitalizing on it. In that vein all OWS has to do is keep the pressure on, keep the language in the media (which, yes, means more civil disobedience and causing issues, because they won't get heard otherwise).

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 10:30 AM

39. Thanks for truthtelling! Isn't it amazing that the minute OWS caught fire, there was total

panic on Wall ST. and with republicans that their game was up, their own tents had folded, their own narrative about "rising tides (of the rich) lifting all boats" just collapsing of its own weight?

They are fleeing in terror. This is the best thing that could happen for us Progressives!

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2012, 08:41 PM

35. Good post Josh. The flag burning flap was a "red herring" anyway........

Hell wasn't it a Chinese made flag? If so, that actually makes for a MUCH more nuanced and subtle statement about the international predatory nature of capitalism.

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 05:23 AM

37. K&R (nt)

 

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 10:01 AM

38. Hostility to wall street predates Occupy - and, indeed, Obama.


While the title of your post may conceivably be technically correct - I can't think of anyone else trying to change American politics for the better who could be described as a movement, putting Occupy at the front of a field of one - the Tea Party movement has accomplished far more - incomparably, immeasurably more - than Occupy.

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Response to Donald Ian Rankin (Reply #38)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 10:52 AM

40. The Tea Party has had a RW boost from the start. There is no real comparison of it with OWS.

There was a good deal of astroturfing with the Tea Party (I have long suspected that it was astroturf from its very beginning, but at the very least it was "boom boxed" by the RW media way out of proportion to its actual support).

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Response to Donald Ian Rankin (Reply #38)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 03:23 PM

42. As far as federal-level rhetoric, it is very new, and very tranformative.

The Tea Party got people elected, but we already know that their accomplishments are quite meager at best. What a lot of people either ignored or forgot is that Obama campaigned on deficit cuts. He campaigned on "reducing the bureaucracy." (Not streamlining or making more efficient, reducing.) These types of views are intrinsically anti-progressive.

It remains to be seen how much Occupy affects the current environment, but I predict sweeping reforms.

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 02:59 PM

41. Kick

 

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 03:33 PM

43. Thumbs Up!




Agony

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 03:46 PM

44. K & R

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 03:58 PM

45. Well said. I agree.

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Response to joshcryer (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 04:33 PM

46. Yup more important than the Abolition movement

or universal suffarage!

NOT

important yes but not the most important.

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Response to whistler162 (Reply #46)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 04:40 PM

47. See post #27. I did not say "most important." I said "most relevant."

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