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Tue Mar 26, 2013, 07:22 PM

This is Monika Kichau, one of two owners of a coffee shop in Umeå, Sweden.



On the 14th of March, after a long day of work and dressed in a grey hoodie, she was locking up her business when a woman approached her and asked her what she was doing, and told her that she’d phoned the police. Minutes later the police arrived and accused her of trying to break into the coffee shop, and despite the fact that she could prove that she owned the place, that she knew everything worth knowing about it in terms of employee records and the like, the police officers still demanded to see her ID, a demand reminiscent of those made by police officers at the tram stations in Stockholm who are dead set on tracking down and catching illegal immigrants by targeting people who don’t look what’s considered “ethnically Swedish”.

Welcome to Sweden. We don’t have a problem with racism, or so the news.

http://selchieproductions.tumblr.com/post/46372028747/tw-racism-this-is-monika-kichau-one-of-two

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Reply This is Monika Kichau, one of two owners of a coffee shop in Umeå, Sweden. (Original post)
MrScorpio Mar 2013 OP
Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #1
MrScorpio Mar 2013 #2
Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #3
MrScorpio Mar 2013 #4
Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #5
MrScorpio Mar 2013 #7
Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #9
MrScorpio Mar 2013 #11
Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #18
MrScorpio Mar 2013 #20
Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #22
MrScorpio Mar 2013 #23
Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #24
MrScorpio Mar 2013 #25
Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #26
MrScorpio Mar 2013 #27
WillyT Mar 2013 #6
hfojvt Mar 2013 #32
tabasco Mar 2013 #13
Journeyman Mar 2013 #8
MrScorpio Mar 2013 #10
Journeyman Mar 2013 #12
MrScorpio Mar 2013 #14
Journeyman Mar 2013 #15
MrScorpio Mar 2013 #16
Journeyman Mar 2013 #17
MrScorpio Mar 2013 #19
Yo_Mama Mar 2013 #29
MrScorpio Mar 2013 #30
Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #21
Yo_Mama Mar 2013 #28
MrScorpio Mar 2013 #31

Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 07:38 PM

1. So the issue is

the police officers still demanded to see her ID?

Asking to see her ID to confirm that she is who she claims to be shouldn't be a problem.

The information provided is inadequate.

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Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #1)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 07:42 PM

2. If this woman was blond and blue eyed, closing up her own shop…

Do you think that she would be challenged, questioned or doubted at all?

Here's your info, in her words: http://arussiandiary.tumblr.com/post/46273632576/inbrottstjuv

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #2)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 07:54 PM

3. the police behaved

Appropriately. The motives of the person who called the police needs to be examined. There is no info provided cconcerning that

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Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #3)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:01 PM

4. Nice way of avoiding my question altogether by inserting your own narrative…


For your little dance around the subject, here are some puppies in a tub!

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:06 PM

5. it as as perfectly reasonable

To ask her for her ID. I am not going to judge an entire country based on a blog post.

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Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:17 PM

7. I'm sorry, but it seems that you didn't get the point…

That this woman is entitled to go about her business without having to deal with some racist bullshit.

However, it seems to you that it's perfectly fine for her to have to deal with racist bullshit, just as long as the police are being "perfectly reasonable."

A "Perfectly reasonable" reaction from the woman who called the cops and the cops themselves, in such a way that no white person would have to deal with.

And my point wasn't to judge Sweden, because you can even find racist bullshit just like this in America as well.

Racist bullshit, my friend, is where you'll find it.

Ne c'est pas?

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:25 PM

9. so if she s as white

The police woukd not have asked to see her id? I dont know the motives of the person who called the police but as described in the blog post the police behaved appropriately. I focus on that as the author seemed to be upset that they asked to see her id .

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Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #9)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:49 PM

11. What business was it that of the woman who called challenged the store owner and called the police?

Why would she not take the word of the store owner who was ostensibly locking up her own store with her own keys?

Given the fact that the store owner was truthful about her ownership, why would it seem "perfectly reasonable" for her to be challenged and doubted?

If the store owner was white in the first place, doing the exact same thing, closing up her own store… is it also "perfectly reasonable" that she never would have been challenged, doubted, reported and questioned at all?

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:34 PM

18. once the police are in scene

Asking for id seems reasonable. How are they to know who she is?

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Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #18)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:59 PM

20. The shop owner was questioned as if she had performed a criminal act, am I right?

Why would her ownership of the shop continue to be questioned after she demonstrated her identity and her ownership?

Besides her race, what factor is present that would impel the woman who challenged and reported her and the police to initially doubt her word?

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #20)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 11:21 PM

22. well the obvious factor

That they were called and they dont know wbo she is. Duh.

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Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #22)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 11:38 PM

23. The woman who challenged and reported her didn't know who the owner was

What makes her word seem more valuable than the woman of color, ostensibly with shop keys in hand and closing her own shop?

If this woman were white, would it be reasonable to speculate that she would not be challenged, reported and questioned at all?

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #23)

Wed Mar 27, 2013, 12:08 AM

24. yes...

The police were within reason . I dont know the motive of the person who reported it and the author diesnt discuss that aspect only th e law enforcement aspect is discussed.

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Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #24)

Wed Mar 27, 2013, 12:42 AM

25. So you're saying that it's perfectly reasonable for innocent people to be harassed by the cops?

Especially by busy body racists who wouldn't know a shop owner from a hole in the ground?

You are aware that other people are reading your handy excuses for white privilege and racism, right?

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #25)

Wed Mar 27, 2013, 12:54 AM

26. I am finished.

Others have pointed out that it is ok to ask for id to determine who she is. The person who called it in motives should be investigated. Mearly asking for id is not racist. I am not defending racism.

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Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #26)

Wed Mar 27, 2013, 01:23 AM

27. You steadfastly refuse to acknowledge the patently racist motivation of the woman who reported her

Her motivation has always been in question and yet you continually deny the reasonable expectation of the innocent non-white shop owner to go about her business without being harassed, challenged and reported to the police, only to have the police initially doubt the validity of her store ownership.

You also refuse to acknowledge the extent to which white privilege, if the store owner had it, would have more than likely prevent the incident from occurring in the first place.

You continue to deflect from acknowledging these things by defending the police, who of course was there to protect the store property, but their actions were hostile at first the the store OWNER herself, NOT the white person harassing HER.

All you have is a claim that your reasoning isn't racist, however you refuse to acknowledge how racism itself could and most likely did factor into the incident.

No, asking for an ID is not in itself a racist act. However, I have observed that you are parsing the overall situation for why the police demanded to see an ID in the first place, in order serve your own inability to recognize how white privilege is the matter at hand here.

If you truly wish to actually work against racism, discrimination and white privilege, I suggest that you do better job to educate yourself about how these things work. Hiding from them won't do you any favors otherwise.




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Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #3)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:14 PM

6. The Word You Are Lookng For Is... "Jawohl"...

jawohl

German

Etymology

From ja ("yes") with the emphatic wohl placed after it, meaning "it is willed".

jawohl

An emphatic yes; in a military context, yes sir.


Link: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jawohl


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Response to WillyT (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 27, 2013, 04:37 AM

32. I learned, as babelfish confirms

that "wohl" means "probably"

so I always understood the phrase to mean "yes, probably"

which always seemed like an odd response to an order.

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Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #1)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:12 PM

13. Yes, police should have power to demand ID for no reason

Great idea!

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:17 PM

8. How does someone "prove they own the place" without showing ID to prove who they are?. . .

And what's the pattern of recent crime in that neighborhood? A detail such as that may make police inquiry a simple matter of attention to their job, rather than an overt sign of "racism."

It may be there's a problem in Sweden, but there's too little info in this blog post to come to anything near an intelligent conclusion.

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:39 PM

10. This would be a perfect time to bring up the subject of white privilege

The biggest feature of white privilege is the fact that the beneficiaries of white privilege, white people themselves, are not even required to acknowledge it or even recognize it. Most of these beneficiaries couldn't even describe it even if they ever saw it.

Most of all it's a systematic process by which beneficiaries of white privilege can go about their business without ever understanding how it affects their lives.

On the other hand, people who have to live without it sees the effects on their lives everyday. They get questioned for being "out of place," or receive incredulous responses from the authorities what wouldn't occur if those people were the beneficiaries of white privilege.

Again, do you think that the woman who challenged the store owner would have done the same thing to a blond, blue eyed woman?

You're looking for "overt" signs of racism here. To me, a person of color who recognizes how white privilege can affect other people of color whenever its part of that society, it's very clear what the underlying theme of the confrontation was about.

However unspoken and however muted to other others who are not accustomed to seeing white privilege in action.

Please check out these posts that put up in Videos and Multimedia yesterday

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017107899
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017107900
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017107901
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017107902
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017107903


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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #10)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:05 PM

12. Why don't you try answering my question, instead of deflecting to a topic we both know?. . .

The issue in the blog post is, she had to show her ID, even though she "proved she owned the place."

How is this done, without showing an ID to prove she is who she claims to be?

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #12)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:15 PM

14. My point is clear, this woman wouldn't had been in this situation at all, had she been white

Because no one would have thought of challenging her in the first place.

How difficult is it to understand this?

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #14)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:23 PM

15. Why not? I've been questioned for my identity by police, and I'm of Irish heritage . . .

Again, how did she prove she "owned the business" without proving who she was?

It seems you're as guilty of unfounded conclusions as the police you now question. How is it you can be so certain of a situation that occurred on the other side of the globe based on three poorly written (translated) paragraphs?

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #15)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:09 PM

16. And of course, your argument is perfectly suited to excuse ANY instance of white privilege

And also to perpetuate it as well, because its implementation would seen incalculable by denying its very existence.

Especially by the way that you diminish the importance of the woman's OWN race. A non white person, living is a country populated predominantly by white people. That the police would take the word of the white challenger, a person who obviously has no connection to the store whatsoever, over that the store owner, as if she was out of place.

What role should a police force have in any society that has white privilege? The answer is obvious to anyone who recognizes how it is supposed to operate; by questioning anyone who, by the very nature of their difference, they would seem to be "out of place."

Had the woman been white, would she have been challenged and reported by another white woman for merely closing up her shop?And why would any white person seem out of place to such an extent that it was necessary to call the police?

Now you can go right ahead and debate police procedure, however innocuous you suppose it to be.

But, if you can't recognize why there should never had been an incident in the first place, especially by applying your own white heritage in order to negate the shop owner's situation, then that, my friend, is exactly how white privilege is applied in any given circumstance.

Equating your own situation to hers denies what the situation of a person of color is.



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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #16)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:22 PM

17. How did she prove she owned the business without showing an ID to prove who she is? . . .

That's what the entire situation in Umeå revolves around (at least in the opinion of the blogger): that she had to show an ID.

And with that I come full circle and tire of this pointless exchange about a poorly written article.

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #17)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:51 PM

19. And again, your own line of logic, which discounts the shop owner's race….

Which is obviously the primary factor by which she found herself challenged and reported in a predominantly white society in the first place, is perfectly in tune with perpetuating a systematic application of white privilege.

Now of course, you can continue find excuses for why the police had to be called on some non-white woman who was doing nothing more than closing up her own shop, but all that is is a demonstration on your own part of how easy it is for white people to be blind to the application of white privilege.

Every excuse that you use to discount the narrative, and how matters of race are factored into it, is merely another way that you're showing how blind to white privilege that any beneficiary of it can be.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 27, 2013, 02:21 AM

29. Probably true, but that doesn't make the police racist

You get a call like that, you are going to get ID. The cops don't know who works in the place, etc. They obviously came and talked to her and dismissed the complaint, but I think an officer who responded to a suspected burglary and didn't look at ID would be fired. A lot of time business robberies are inside jobs - she could also have been an employee who was robbing it, which might explain having stuff on her person related to the business.

The original report probably was because of racism! It's hard to imagine someone in a situation like that calling the cops unless it was her race that really generated the suspicion. I suppose it might not be. Maybe the door sticks or something and the lady was banging it to make sure it locked. But unlikely. Locking up doesn't look like breaking in.

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Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #29)

Wed Mar 27, 2013, 02:32 AM

30. Yes, racism is obviously behind the report in the first place

Now, I'm not going to denigrate the police for doing their jobs.

However, I will say that I believe that their initial insistence that a crime had been committed even before arriving at the fact of who the store owner was is disturbing to me. As well as their persistence in disbelieving the owner as she proved in one way after another that she was in fact an owner of the place.

I seriously doubt that a white person in her position would have received the same treatment.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 11:01 PM

21. Didn't Sweden take and hide for Hitler tons of artwork confiscated from Jews?

Or was that Switzerland?

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Mar 27, 2013, 02:14 AM

28. Probably the person who reported her to the police was racist

Locking up doesn't look much like breaking in, does it?

But once the police had been called, I don't think asking her for her ID would be anything but protocol. Hardly proof of racism.

Sure, SHE knew everything about the place, but how would the police know that what she was telling them was true? Getting ID is just basic police procedure.

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Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #28)

Wed Mar 27, 2013, 02:37 AM

31. I believe that the best situation is

That that storeowner of color should have received the same deference that any white person would receive.

That being said, if it were the case, I doubt that she would have been reported to the police at all and would have been left unmolested to go about her own business.

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