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Mon Mar 25, 2013, 02:21 PM

Don't know about you, but I'm still FURIOUS about Selection 2000.



By a vote of 5 to 4, the Supreme Court stepped where totalitarians walk and reversed the results of the ballot box.

And the traitors, warmongers and gangsters continue to run wild over the People, the Nation and the Constitution.



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Reply Don't know about you, but I'm still FURIOUS about Selection 2000. (Original post)
Octafish Mar 2013 OP
Blue Owl Mar 2013 #1
Scuba Mar 2013 #17
Octafish Mar 2013 #38
deutsey Mar 2013 #82
Octafish Mar 2013 #85
xtraxritical Mar 2013 #95
Octafish Mar 2013 #101
xtraxritical Mar 2013 #112
sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #2
Octafish Mar 2013 #43
sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #73
byronius Mar 2013 #3
Octafish Mar 2013 #57
grahampuba Mar 2013 #90
HughBeaumont Mar 2013 #4
Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #15
malaise Mar 2013 #64
raccoon Mar 2013 #41
Octafish Mar 2013 #58
Art_from_Ark Mar 2013 #66
stevenleser Mar 2013 #5
Octafish Mar 2013 #59
stevenleser Mar 2013 #92
frazzled Mar 2013 #6
zappaman Mar 2013 #7
AlbertCat Mar 2013 #39
zappaman Mar 2013 #40
AlbertCat Mar 2013 #46
BobbyBoring Mar 2013 #48
zappaman Mar 2013 #50
loudsue Mar 2013 #49
llmart Mar 2013 #87
LongTomH Mar 2013 #110
AsahinaKimi Mar 2013 #109
zappaman Mar 2013 #113
AsahinaKimi Mar 2013 #114
zappaman Mar 2013 #115
Octafish Mar 2013 #60
erronis Mar 2013 #97
libodem Mar 2013 #8
KT2000 Mar 2013 #10
libodem Mar 2013 #12
Kahuna Mar 2013 #42
Octafish Mar 2013 #61
libodem Mar 2013 #72
Hotler Mar 2013 #9
Octafish Mar 2013 #36
hfojvt Mar 2013 #11
Octafish Mar 2013 #67
SunSeeker Mar 2013 #75
louis-t Mar 2013 #13
Octafish Mar 2013 #70
chade Mar 2013 #119
Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #14
noiretextatique Mar 2013 #16
MuseRider Mar 2013 #18
KauaiK Mar 2013 #19
beerandjesus Mar 2013 #20
drm604 Mar 2013 #21
Cleita Mar 2013 #22
NCarolinawoman Mar 2013 #28
Floyd_Gondolli Mar 2013 #23
Liberal In Red State Mar 2013 #24
NCarolinawoman Mar 2013 #25
Cleita Mar 2013 #32
JEB Mar 2013 #26
MoclipsHumptulips Mar 2013 #27
ramapo Mar 2013 #29
Javaman Mar 2013 #30
Octafish Mar 2013 #62
raouldukelives Mar 2013 #31
grasswire Mar 2013 #33
patrice Mar 2013 #34
AlbertCat Mar 2013 #35
rhett o rick Mar 2013 #37
olddots Mar 2013 #44
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #45
loudsue Mar 2013 #47
Mnemosyne Mar 2013 #51
graham4anything Mar 2013 #52
Botany Mar 2013 #53
On the Road Mar 2013 #54
ms liberty Mar 2013 #55
Kurovski Mar 2013 #56
annabanana Mar 2013 #63
mimi85 Mar 2013 #78
Solly Mack Mar 2013 #65
Bonobo Mar 2013 #68
sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #93
Zorra Mar 2013 #69
Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #71
Rex Mar 2013 #74
Cliff Arnebeck Mar 2013 #76
Jamaal510 Mar 2013 #77
midnight Mar 2013 #79
lunatica Mar 2013 #80
deutsey Mar 2013 #81
JHB Mar 2013 #83
demwing Mar 2013 #84
valerief Mar 2013 #86
wakemewhenitsover Mar 2013 #88
trof Mar 2013 #89
olegramps Mar 2013 #91
rainy Mar 2013 #94
Gore1FL Mar 2013 #96
Autumn Mar 2013 #98
HomeboyHombre Mar 2013 #99
Glaisne Mar 2013 #100
librechik Mar 2013 #102
indepat Mar 2013 #103
BigDemVoter Mar 2013 #104
benld74 Mar 2013 #105
Initech Mar 2013 #106
Octafish Mar 2013 #117
TfG Mar 2013 #107
Wolf Frankula Mar 2013 #108
cynatnite Mar 2013 #111
Octafish Mar 2013 #118
cynatnite Mar 2013 #120
LongTomH Mar 2013 #116
fredzachmane Mar 2013 #121

Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 02:26 PM

1. That was some serious smoke & mirrors there

K&R

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Response to Blue Owl (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 03:15 PM

17. If there had only been one decent journalist, he/she would have caught and reported it at the time.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #17)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:28 PM

38. Integrity.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #38)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 07:57 AM

82. As one who has no money but lots of integrity, I have to say he was right. n/t

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Response to deutsey (Reply #82)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:45 AM

85. Excellent point. Smells sulfurous, like a spirit of coup d'etat.

Dear DU,

Here's what deutsey does. Tells the Truth:



Smells like coup spirit

By Dwayne Eutsey

April 27, 2001-Thanks to the investigative reporting of journalists such
as Greg Palast, more evidence of a coordinated effort to disenfranchise
tens of thousands of registered voters (mostly African American) is
surfacing in Florida. When these reports are considered within the context
of police roadblocks, cases of intimidation, and possible large-scale
voter fraud and ballot tampering, fears of an orchestrated dirty election
become more substantiated.

There is another aspect of the 2000 election in Florida that remains
largely untouched, however: the possibility of a domestic covert
intelligence operation designed to make certain that America didn't go
Democratic "due to the irresponsibility of its own people," to paraphrase
Henry Kissinger's remark concerning overthrowing the democratically
elected government in Chile.

Perhaps the possibility of such an operation in the US is too far-fetched
to take seriously, or perhaps there isn't enough evidence to proceed with
documenting such suspicions. Unfortunately, history proves that the
former assumption is naive (Watergate, Iran-Contra, and documented CIA
activities against US citizens come immediately to mind). Regarding
evidence, it's the nature of the covert beast to leave no fingerprints and
smoking guns behind (unless you're setting up a patsy). However, if you
can't find a corpse laying around, the stench in the air can often reveal,
nonetheless, that a murder victim's body is covered up somewhere nearby.

What follows here is not an expose of how a CIA-backed coup in Florida
helped kill the democratic process in November. It is an effort, however,
to draw attention to the disturbing stink surrounding events in the 2000
election that are similar to known CIA actions that thwarted democracy in
other countries, namely Guatemala in the 1950s and Chile in 1973. To
avoid the appearance of "conspiracy theorizing" on my part, I've limited
the information presented here to what can be verified. I have also
limited the focus of this survey to very broad similarities. Many others
connections exist and warrant further investigation (such as claims that
former CIA/FBI agent Charles Kane, who was involved in possible absentee
ballot tampering in Florida, played a role in the Bay of Pigs invasion and
CIA coups and dirty tricks around the world. He allegedly retired in the
mid-'70s and would have been employed during the Agency's heyday of covert
operations).

Hopefully, this general overview will help prompt others to conduct a more
thorough look into murky activities that, taken as a whole, suggest the
spirit of CIA-Coups-Past may have paid an unwelcome visit last November to
Florida.

Historical Background

By placing these facts within the larger historical context of CIA coup
activity, many of the baffling events transpiring in Florida last year
begin to make some sense. The same players (CIA, powerful corporations,
rightwing militarists), the same motives (preserving economic/political
power), and even the same tactics (armed violence, fortunately, being one
exception) begin to emerge that suggest some unpleasant connections among
them.

For easier comparison, I break down these similarities according to coup
patterns in Guatemala, Chile, and Florida. Unless otherwise noted, the
information here is from David Halberstam's excellent book, The Fifties,
and from the Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with
Respect to Intelligence Activities (Church Report).

Guatemala: Prior to the legitimate election of Jacobo Arbenz to the
presidency in the early '50s, United Fruit Company controls most of the
country's land, economy, and politics. The land reform policies that
Arbenz wants to implement, which would redistribute United
Fruit-controlled land to Guatemalans, threaten United Fruit's economic
interests and political power in the region. United Fruit has close ties
to powerful figures in America, including Allen Dulles (Director of the
CIA) and his brother Foster (Secretary of State). The Dulles brothers and
others portray Arbenz as a communist threat and convince President
Eisenhower that a coup is in America's best interest.

Chile: Despite CIA covert efforts to defeat him, socialist Salvador
Allende is elected as president in 1970. His plan to nationalize Chilean
industries poses a direct threat to the reactionary Nixon Administration
and the multinational corporate interests it represents. Prior to
Allende's election, the CIA spent years and millions of dollars waging a
propaganda war to maintain a US/corporate-friendly government in Chile.
After the election, the Agency is instrumental in implementing Henry
Kissinger's desire to thwart Allende's policies and in supporting a
military coup being planned by General Augusto Pinochet.

Florida: Strategically important in the CIA's covert war against Cuba
(and other troublespots throughout Central and South America), Florida has
been home to CIA mercenary training camps since at least the '50s (such as
one in Opa-Locka).

There is also an interesting Bush connection to Florida (apart from Jeb
Bush holding the state's governorship). According to a report in The
Nation, days after the Kennedy assassination in 1963 a memo from J. Edgar
Hoover stated that a "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency"
had been briefed regarding the reaction of anti-Castro Cuban exiles in
Miami to the murder. Although George H.W. Bush claims the name he shares
with the "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" is coincidental, a source for the
story observed: "I know was involved in the Caribbean. I know he
was involved in the suppression of things after the Kennedy assassination.
There was a very definite worry that some Cuban groups were going to move
against Castro and attempt to blame it on the CIA." (see Joseph McBride,
"'George Bush,' CIA Operative," The Nation, July 16/23, 1988, p. 42).

The Players

What follows is a very general review of similar interests and
organizations involved in some manner in Guatemala, Chile, and Florida.

Guatemala:

CIA: Director Allen Dulles is a key player in organizing the coup.

Multinational: United Fruit Company is known as "el pulpo" ("the
octopus") because of its pervasive influence over so many facets of the
country.

Rightwing Militarists Takeover: A reactionary military junta is installed
after the coup, fronted by the CIA-selected Carlos Enrique Castillo Armas.
The junta is responsible for the mass murder of dissidents and years of
brutal repression.

Chile:

CIA: For a detailed analysis of widespread US covert activities in Chile,
see the Church Report.

Multinationals: "In addition to providing information and cover to the
CIA, multinational corporations also participated in covert attempts to
influence Chilean politics." Church Report. Among the corporations
actively opposed to Allende's election and his socialist experiment were
ITT, Pepsi-Cola, and the Chase Manhattan Bank.

Rightwing Militarists Takeover: With CIA support and the blessings of the
Nixon Administration, General Augusto Pinochet establishes a brutal and
reactionary military junta after the coup. As in Guatemala, the junta is
repressive and responsible for the mass murder of dissidents (including
Americans Charles Horman and Frank Terrugi, both of whom were tortured and
executed. According to a US State Department memo dated August 25, 1976,
the CIA "may have played an unfortunate part" in both deaths. See
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/19991008/01-04.htm).

Florida:

CIA: At least one "former" CIA operative (Charles Kane) is implicated in
shady activities during the Florida election. The attorney for those
investigating Kane's involvement in tampering with absentee ballots said
Kane's efforts were part of a "sinister underground conspiracy." ("Florida
Official Admits Helping GOP," Associated Press, December 7, 2000).

Multinationals: Oil, insurance, tobacco, pharmaceuticals, etc., all have
concerns about a Gore presidency and its potential for regulatory
activism. These corporations are eager to bring "business special
interests into politics so they can take over the regulatory bodies of
government and regulate themselves. ("America in the Grip of Bush's 'Iron
Triangle,'" The Observer, December 3, 2000).

Rightwing Militarists Takeover: The Bush Administration has established
"itself as the most brazenly rightwing of modern times. As the ecstatic
head of the ultra-conservative Heritage Foundation enthuses, the new crowd
are 'more Reaganite than the Reagan administration.'" (The Guardian,
April 25, 2001). Among the appointments Bush has made are Cold Warriors
(e.g., Donald Rumsfield), old Iran/Contra characters and intelligence
operatives (e.g., John Negroponte and Otto Reich; see The Nation, May 7,
2001: "Lie to the Media, Get a Job," by Eric Alterman).

Tactics

Media Manipulation/Reality Distortion

Guatemala: CIA "deftly created a fictional war over the airwaves, one in
which the government troops faltered and refused to fight and in which the
liberation troops were relentlessly moving toward Guatemala City."
Halberstam

Chile: "Press placements were attractive because each
placement might produce a multiplier effect, being picked up and replayed
by media outlets other than the one in which it originally came out."
Church Report

Florida: John Ellis, Bush's first cousin, at the rightwing Fox News
decides to declare the state for Bush after 2 a.m., causing the other
networks to do likewise, creating the lasting (and false) impression that
Bush won the election.

Press Collusion

Guatemala: " . . . one crucial ingredient left for the success of the coup
. . . was the cooperation, voluntary and involuntary, of the American
press. This meant it was necessary for the press corps to tell the public
that the coup was the work of an indigenous Guatemalan force." Halberstam

Practically all American reporters cooperate, with the exception of NYT
reporter Sydney Gruson. After CIA director Allen Dulles puts pressure on
the Times, Gruson is removed from covering Guatemala. "It was an important
moment," writes Halberstam, "a warning to the paper's top executives about
the potential difference between the agenda of the secret government and
that of serious journalism."

Chile: Excerpts from the Church Report . . ."The most common form of a
propaganda project is simply the development of 'assets' in media
organizations who can place articles or be asked to write them."
"According to CIA documents, the Time correspondent in Chile apparently
had accepted Allende's protestations of moderation and constitutionality
at face value. Briefings requested by Time and provided by the CIA in
Washington resulted in a change in the basic thrust of the Time story on
Allende's September 4 victory and in the timing of that story." "According
to the CIA, partial returns showed that 726 articles, broadcasts,
editorials, and similar items directly resulted from Agency activity. The
Agency had no way to measure the scope of the multiplier effect . . . but
concluded that its contribution was both substantial and significant."

Florida: After Election Day, airwaves are saturated with rightwing
commentators, such as Ann Coulter, accusing Gore of being a "nutcase" who
is trying to steal an election that was, at the very least, in dispute; at
the most, it was a victory for Gore. (See "GOP Won by Planting Seeds of
Deception, by Roger Ebert, Chicago Sun-Times, December 14, 2000).

Lewis Lapham of Harper's noted that the "poisonous language" and
"paranoid" arguments being aired at the time were mostly coming from
rightwingers (although the Democrats were not free from "unctuous
statement, rank hypocrisy, and bitter diatribe.") Still, when it came to
rancor and speciousness, he "didn't find the same sort of stupidity on the
Democratic side of the dispute."

A sidenote on the Press and the CIA: There are a number of articles
exposing the connections between the US media and the CIA. The most
famous expose was Carl Bernstein's "The CIA and the Media" in the October
20, 1977 issue of Rolling Stone. In it, Bernstein reveals the cooperation
during the '50s and '60s between major US media outlets and the
intelligence community, including, CBS, New York Times, Time, the Miami
Herald, and hundreds of others. The NY Times recently reported,
ironically enough, that the CIA has included news wire services (the now
Moonie-owned UPI, for example) as part of its "regular propaganda
apparatus;" this apparatus also included "Miami exile contacts with
Florida papers."

Although this report is based on a CIA document from the early '60s, it
was also reported this year (or underreported) that US Army psychological
operations personnel (responsible for spreading propaganda) were placed at
CNN's TV, radio, and satellite bureaus during the Kosovo war. (From a
report by Alexander Cockburn in Counterpunch, cited among AlterNet's Top
Ten Censored Stories of 2000).

Staging "Spontaneous" Revolts/Protests

Guatemala: CIA creates the "rebel army" that is supposed to be an
indigenous uprising. "One of the CIA's main responsibilities was to keep
American journalists out of the area lest they find out how pathetic
Castillo Armas's army really was." Halberstam

Chile: "The CIA was directed to undertake an effort to promote a military
coup in Chile to prevent the accession to power of Salvador Allende."
(This particular coup fell apart). Church Report.

Florida: Republican operatives are bussed into Miami in a GOP-orchestrated
campaign to shut down the recount effort and intimidate (and even
physically assault) Democratic election officials.

Targeting Special Groups for Propaganda

Chile: "The covert propaganda efforts in Chile also included 'black'
propaganda-material falsely purporting to be the product of a particular
individual or group . . . the CIA used 'black' propaganda to sow discord
between the Communists and the Socialists and between the national labor
confederation and the Chilean Communist Party." Church Report

Florida: African Americans received calls the weekend before the election
from a speaker who falsely claimed to be with the NAACP, asking them to
vote for Bush. (Midwest Today, December 2000: "Scary Facts About the
Florida Vote," by Larry Jordan).

Conclusion

Where does mere coincidence end and meaningful patterns begin? Even if
the events in Florida listed here (along with the more detailed reports
being filed by investigative journalists) are removed from the context of
covert actions, it is easy to conclude that something profoundly
disturbing happened in the previous election.

Reviewing the increasing amount of evidence demonstrating just how dirty
the 2000 election was, however, is it so unreasonable to think that those
interests whose hands remain sullied from Florida would have sunk one
notch lower into the murky depths of covert operations? What are the
limits when the objective is to grab power at any cost?

And what will those who seized that power do next time in order to hold on
to it?

SOURCE: http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg66317.html



Contrast, please, with what Corporate McPravda does: zero.

Which is why deutsey is a real journalist, a human being with INTEGRITY.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #85)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:06 PM

95. Sure, but how do you really feel?

 

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #95)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:48 PM

101. Glad you asked. Remember when Bush searched for WMDs in the Oval Office?

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Response to Octafish (Reply #101)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:01 PM

112. I lived thru it too, since Vietnam. I knew all the reasons to not go there and Hans Blix

 

was the only sane voice in the room. "My country right or wrong."

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 02:28 PM

2. But you were supposed to 'move on' or the 'good of the country'!

And now that we have seen the results of 'moving on' from major crimes against the people, do you think any of those who urged us to do that, have had ANY second thoughts at all?

Like you, I never believed that moving on, looking forward and ignoring major crimes, even treason, was going to ever be a good thing. Not without at least some acknowledgement of the wrong doing.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:46 PM

43. In fact, I've been FURIOUS since Nov. 22, 1963

You are correct, sabrina 1: Bush, Cheney and the rest of them have never uttered an apology or given a thought to the millions of lives they have destroyed: Meanwhile, thousands of families mourn their dead here at home and, likely, millions abroad.

''Forgive and Forget'' is great for human relations. It's not great for democracy.

For one thing, no one is supposed to be above the law, including the people who interpret it and the people charged with upholding it.

The traitors remain free to enjoy the fruits of their treason. "Moving on" seems to be a national characteristic going back to Nov. 22, 1963, as evinced by what George Herbert Walker Bush told the FBI minutes after President Kennedy was declared dead:



The urge to move on certainly runs in that family whose name just keeps popping up from the time of Smedley Butler to the present day.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #43)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:23 AM

73. That family needs to be thoroughly investigated, even those who are no longer alive.

For one thing, regardless of whether or not they are still living, it would be a lesson to others who might be thinking that THEY got away with it, that history will not allow it. Legacy is something they care about.

I don't think you are alone. And it is the fact that they cannot stop people from caring that keeps them trying so hard to trivialize the crimes. Even here on DU.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 02:29 PM

3. Major breakage. Impossible to forget.

Until the day I die, I will remember it with shame.

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Response to byronius (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 08:51 PM

57. Funny how fast the media moved on.

Remember how the twin recounts by the two, independent media consortiums indicated Gore won, no matter which way the votes were counted, except the way they originally were "counted," sans overvotes?



Yes, Bush v. Gore Did Steal the Election

By Jonathan Chait
6/25/12 at 12:41 PM

EXCERPT...

The myth that Bush would have won had the recount proceeded dates back to a recount conducted by a consortium of newspapers that examined the ballots. The consortium found that “If all the ballots had been reviewed under any of seven single standards, and combined with the results of an examination of overvotes, Mr. Gore would have won, by a very narrow margin.” But the newspapers decided that this was not how the counties would have actually tabulated the votes. By the variable standards they would have used, the papers reported, Bush would have prevailed. Thus the national news reported a slew of headlines asserting that Bush would have prevailed.

The conclusion was erroneous. The newspapers assumed that the counties would only have looked at “undervotes” — ballots that did not register any votes for president — and ignored “overvotes” — ballots that registered more than one vote for president. An overvote would be a ballot in which the machine mistakenly picked up a second vote for president, or in which a voter both marked a box and wrote in the name of the same candidate. A hand recount in which an examiner is judging the “intent of the voter” would turn those ballots that were originally discarded into countable votes.

Counting overvotes in which the intent of the voter was clear would have resulted in Gore winning the recount. And subsequent reporting by the Orlando Sentinel and Michael Isikoff found that the recount, had it proceeded, almost certainly would have examined overvotes. (Most of the links have been lost over time, but you can find references here and here.)

The newspapers’ error has to be understood in the context of the time. After Bush prevailed in the recount, there was massive pressure to retroactively justify the processes that led to his victory, in the general spirit of restoring confidence in the system. In the aftermath of the September 11 attacks, that pressure intensified to the point where it was commonly opined that the newspapers ought to entirely cancel the recount (scheduled to come out in November 2001, at the height of the rally-around-Bush moment). In that atmosphere, the newspapers grasped for an interpretation that would both reassure most Americans of what they wanted to believe and avoid placing themselves in opposition to a powerful and bipartisan rallying around Bush that was then at its apogee.

Now, the actual effect of the recount is obviously something of a side issue when assessing the actions of the Court. Nobody knew the outcome of the recount, only that it threatened to make Al Gore president, and stopping it would guarantee Bush’s victory. That is the environment in which five Republican-appointed justices essentially invented a one-time-only ruling to stop the recount. And that’s the relevant history in which to understand the Court’s decision to make up its own new legal theories about the regulation of the health-care market now.

SOURCE:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2012/06/yes-bush-v-gore-did-steal-the-election.html



The part that gets me maddest, are the disenfranchised voters Jebthro and Catherine Harris created out of thin air by dumping people with the same name as a felon or people who were from poor, working class and certain "minority" districts, what people call "Democrats."

We won't forgot. Nor will anyone who know us, byronius.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #57)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:35 AM

90. NPR..

that was the last day they would ever receive a cent or moment of consideration from me.

It was a total non issue and the coverage went straight from election night to two hour discussions on cat dander. At most the fraud received a couple 10 second bites summarizing court decisions.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 02:30 PM

4. It was indeed a dog and pony show and the joke's been on us ever since.

The neo-clowns got their bozo, and in turn, their M.E. wars and their all-out assault on this country's women, labor, children and gay people (since we have no superpower to stockpile for).

The SCOTUS interfered in a state-run election. Mrs. 5-4 selfishly provided the U.S.A.'s guillotine, which will now be her eternal legacy. There was no talking to the other pig fixers; I pretty much expected those assholes to vote in favor of their fellow con's progeny. She didn't have to do this. She KNEW BETTER.

Each member of the so-called "Brooks Brothers Riot" should have been arrested right on the spot. Interfering with the recount of a national election is a federal offense.

Our Fourth Estate is a GOP/corporate propaganda arm, hilariously unobjective, painfully biased and about as informative and honest as an army recruiter.

The real terrorists of this country wear three piece suits, are corporate executives and will get away with their misdeeds . . . each and every time.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 03:12 PM

15. The funniest thing in retrospect was Jim Baker....

He said, "The world is laughing at us because we can't hold an election."

Right after that the Republicans claimed part of being patriotic was to bomb the whole world if they didn't agree with them.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #15)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 09:42 PM

64. A profound observation

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:32 PM

41. This deserves its own thread! nt

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 09:01 PM

58. What raccoon said.

The Democrats could have said something in 2000 when they spotted the rioters. But, they were quiet as church mice.

Frank Church got quiet after he was "retired" in the great, uh, realignment of 1980. The leader of the last Congressional investigation of the intelligence agencies was upset in the Reagan landslide, along with longtime liberals Birch Bayh, Jacob Javits and George McGovern.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #58)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 10:11 PM

66. You are so right about the Election of 1980

It was so awful. We lost many great Senators, and got stuck with Reagan for 8 years to boot.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 02:31 PM

5. FYI, most of these rentamob folks are on twitter. I looked them up 2-3 months ago when I

featured this same pic on my blog. I am even following one or two of them.

Point being, if you want to give them a piece of your mind, you can do it.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 09:11 PM

59. Thanks for the heads-up.



I'd like to discuss with them what they helped bring about.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #59)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:57 AM

92. If you end up doing it, let me know. I will want to retweet some of the exchanges!

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 02:34 PM

6. Well yes, me too, but I've had to let it go

Whenever I think back to that horrendous time I get an ulcerous feeling. It started the night of the election itself, when the news media cut away to the hotel room filled with all the Bushes saying the call giving the state to Al Gore was wrong, and they knew it. How did they know it? My reaction was instantaneous, and as close as I'd ever gotten to a panic attack: I remember jumping up and literally screaming at the set: "They're stealing the election!!"

Then the weeks on end of chad counting and fake riots. The horrible reporting. The Supreme Court decision. I remember going for the first time to a protest since the 1960s, at Boston Common.

But you know what? You can't change what happened, and you can't make yourself sick being angry at it still. What's done is done. Keep it in memory as a lesson for the future always, but don't obsess on the past. It's over. It will go down in history as a travesty some day, and that's good enough for me at this point. I don't want to start drinking or getting sick over it.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 02:35 PM

7. "don't obsess on the past"

I couldn't agree more!
Especially the word "obsess".
It's not healthy.

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Response to zappaman (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:30 PM

39. "don't obsess on the past"

Yeah.... an unelected president put in "power" by partisan judges on the highest of courts.... a single president ago... ho hum. No needs to obsess over such small things.... like the end of our country. I suppose this means we can forget about the Holocaust and Vietnam too. Wouldn't want to get a headache. Ho hum. What's on the tube.....?

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #39)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:31 PM

40. Why obsess?

When you can watch Honey Boo Boo?!!?

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Response to zappaman (Reply #40)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:59 PM

46. When you can watch Honey Boo Boo?!!?

Egg-zack-lee!

Seriously, "obsess" may not mean the same thing to everyone, but remembering, reminding people who may have forgotten or weren't there what happened, correcting the record when it's presented incorrectly, and revisiting things so as to recognize them if they appear again, are not obsessing. Neither is trying to get criminals at least called criminals.

Self immolation is obsessing.

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Response to zappaman (Reply #40)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 05:04 PM

48. EUREKA!

That explains why you believe the 9/11 commission. You're a Boo Boo watcher!

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Response to BobbyBoring (Reply #48)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 05:11 PM

50. I agree!

She's the bestest!

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Response to zappaman (Reply #40)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 05:07 PM

49. You won't believe this, but after all they hype, that's the first time I've ever

seen her. I've seen pictures, heard about her, but never have seen her in action until this moment.

I wish I had kept on with the not seeing her.

Edited because something didn't come out quite right.

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Response to loudsue (Reply #49)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:21 AM

87. Same here....

Now I have to go wash my eyes out with Listerine - anything to get that out of my brain!

I remember when Hee Haw first came on TV (60's maybe?) and my parents said, "So now we're glorifying hillbillies?"

My parents must be turning over in their graves.

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Response to loudsue (Reply #49)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:00 PM

110. In a masochistic moment, I googled on the name: 'Honey Boo-boo'.......

......and got pictures of her ghastly family! My eyes, my eyes!!!!!

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Response to zappaman (Reply #40)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 01:57 PM

109. Having watched that clip

makes me very happy I gave up my TV ten years ago. If that is what passes for entertainment these days, than we truly are lost.
I remember reading about how Gene Roddenberry had such a horrible time selling the concept of Star Trek to the Network.. it seems those people or ones much like them, are still in charge of the Network Entertainment.

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Response to AsahinaKimi (Reply #109)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:03 PM

113. It's way worse now.

The airwaves are jammed with "reality" shows.
Cheap to make and, for some reason, still popular.
The Learning Channel needs to change their name....maybe The Dumbed Down Channel?

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Response to zappaman (Reply #113)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:07 PM

114. From what I have seen

The History Channel.. is .... Not.

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Response to AsahinaKimi (Reply #114)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:15 PM

115. Nope.

And there are no reality shows that aren't manipulated and/or scripted.
Dreck.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 09:13 PM

60. This only is denied to God: the power to undo the past.

Agathon, from Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, (448 BC - 400 BC)

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Response to frazzled (Reply #6)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:15 PM

97. May the children, grandchildren, and all other descendants

Understand what their parents and ancestors did to the world. Maybe even the 'Bush' name will become anathema just like Hitler and Stalin (well, pseudonym).

Of course having all that wealth and prestige/power may take awhile to run through first.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 02:43 PM

8. The begining of the end

Of life as we knew it. Notice how quickly the Patriot Act was installed to override the Constitution? And how it has never been removed? Gawd, that is irksome me. The whole mess was orchestrated from a secret billionaire think tank somewhere. Seems like treason through deception with smoke and mirrors.

America got screwed.

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Response to libodem (Reply #8)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 02:49 PM

10. that's how I see it too

bully partisanship had a victory that has made it standard operating procedure. The Constitution was buried.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #10)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 02:54 PM

12. yep

Theft by deception.

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Response to libodem (Reply #8)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:34 PM

42. Ditto here.

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Response to libodem (Reply #8)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 09:29 PM

61. You said it, libodem. What's the opposite of 'Cui bono'?

"Cui plagalis." "Who pays."

http://www.pocatelloshops.com/new_blogs/politics/?p=5170

But, the ones who've benefited? They stand out.



Wealth, Income, and Power

by G. William Domhoff
University of California at Santa Cruz

EXCERPT...

This document focuses on the "Top 1%" as a whole because that's been the traditional cut-off point for "the top" in academic studies, and because it's easy for us to keep in mind that we are talking about one in a hundred. But it is also important to realize that the lower half of that top 1% has far less than those in the top half; in fact, both wealth and income are super-concentrated in the top 0.1%, which is just one in a thousand. (To get an idea of the differences, take a look at an insider account by a long-time investment manager who works for the well-to-do and very rich. It nicely explains what the different levels have -- and how they got it. Also, David Cay Johnston (2011) has written a column about the differences among the top 1%, based on 2009 IRS information.)

SNIP...

There's also some general information available on median income and percentage of people below the poverty line in 2010. As might be expected, most of the new information shows declines; in fact, a report from the Center for Economic and Policy Research (2011) concludes that the decade from 2000 to 2010 was a "lost decade" for most Americans.

SOURCE:

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html



Nothing against them. Just want them to pay their fare share in taxes.



And NO Off-shoring.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #61)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:18 AM

72. cool

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 02:48 PM

9. I have no hope. I see no future. n/t

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Response to Hotler (Reply #9)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:24 PM

36. Beethoven

For my brothers Carl and (Johann) Beethoven

Oh you men who think or say that I am malevolent, stubborn, or misanthropic, how greatly do you wrong me? You do not know the secret cause which makes me seem that way to you. From childhood on, me heart and soul have been full of the tender feeling of goodwill, and I was ever inclined to accomplish great things. But, think that for six years now I have been hopelessly afflicted, made worse by senseless physicians, from year to year deceived with hopes of improvement, finally compelled to face the prospect of a lasting malady (whose cure will take years or, perhaps, be impossible). Though born with a fiery, active temperament, even susceptible to the diversions of society, I was soon compelled to withdraw myself, to live life alone. If at times I tried to forget all this, oh how harshly I was I flung back by the doubly sad experience of my bad hearing. Yet it was impossible for me to say to people, "Speak louder, shout, for I am deaf." Ah, how could I possibly admit an infirmity in the one sense which ought to be more perfect in me than others, a sense which I once possessed in the highest perfection, a perfection such as few in my profession enjoy or ever have enjoyed.--Oh I cannot do it; therefore forgive me when you see me draw back when I would have gladly mingled with you.

My misfortune is doubly painful to me because I am bound to be misunderstood; for me there can be no relaxation with my fellow men, no refined conversations, no mutual exchange of ideas. I must live almost alone, like one who has been banished; I can mix with society only as much as true necessity demands. If I approach near to people a hot terror seizes upon me, and I fear being exposed to the danger that my condition might be noticed. Thus it has been during the last six months which I have spent in the country. By ordering me to spare my hearing as much as possible, my intelligent doctor almost fell in with my own present frame of mind, though sometimes I ran counter to it by yielding to my desire for companionship. But what a humiliation for me when someone standing next to me heard a flute in the distance and I heard nothing, or someone standing next to me heard a flute in the distance and I heard nothing, or someone heard a shepherd singing and again I heard nothing. Such incidents drove me almost to despair; a little more of that and I would have ended me life -- it was only my art that held me back. Ah, it seemed to me impossible to leave the world until I had brought forth all that I felt was within me. So I endured this wretched existence -- truly wretched for so susceptible a body, which can be thrown by a sudden change from the best condition to the very worst. -- Patience, they say, is what I must now choose for my guide, and I have done so -- I hope my determination will remain firm to endure until it pleases the inexorable Parcae to break the thread. Perhaps I shall get better, perhaps not; I am ready. -- Forced to become a philosopher already in my twenty-eighth year, oh it is not easy, and for the artist much more difficult than for anyone else. 'Divine one, thou seest me inmost soul thou knowest that therein dwells the love of mankind and the desire to do good'. Oh fellow men, when at some point you read this, consider then that you have done me an injustice; someone who has had misfortune man console himself to find a similar case to his, who despite all the limitations of Nature nevertheless did everything within his powers to become accepted among worthy artists and men. 'You, my brothers Carl and , as soon as I am dead, if Dr. Schmidt is still alive, ask him in my name to describe my malady, and attach this written documentation to his account of my illness so that so far as it possible at least the world may become reconciled to me after my death".

At the same time, I declare you two to be the heirs to my small fortune (if so it can be called); divide it fairly; bear with and help each other. What injury you have done me you know was long ago forgiven. To you, brother Carl, I give special thanks for the attachment you have shown me of late. It is my wish that you may have a better and freer life than I have had. Recommend virtue to your children; it alone, not money, can make them happy. I speak from experience; this was what upheld me in time of misery. Thanks to it and to my art, I did not end my life by suicide -- Farewell and love each other -- I thank all my friends, particularly Prince Lichnowsky's and Professor Schmidt -- I would like the instruments from Prince L. to be preserved by one of you, but not to be the cause of strife between you, and as soon as they can serve you a better purpose, then sell them. How happy I shall be if can still be helpful to you in my grave -- so be it. -- With joy I hasten to meed death. -- If it comes before I have had the chance to develop all my artistic capacities, it will still be coming too soon despite my harsh fate, and I should probably wish it later -- yet even so I should be happy, for would it not free me from a state of endless suffering? -- Come when thou wilt, I shall meed thee bravely. -- Farewell and do not wholly forget me when I am dead; I deserve this from you, for during my lifetime I was thinking of you often and of ways to make you happy -- please be so --

Ludwig van Beethoven

Heiligenstadt,

October 6th, 1802

SOURCE w/details: http://www.all-about-beethoven.com/heiligenstadt_test.html

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 02:50 PM

11. I still haven't forgiven

Nader

but he hasn't apologized either.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 10:46 PM

67. At the time, I blamed him, too.

The thing is, there should've been FBI or federal marshals or troops guaranteeing the integrity of the vote in Florida and Tennessee and elsewhere. As it was, the likes of Jebthro Bush and Don Sundquist helped things fall the puke way more than Ralph Nader.

There is a difference, of course, between R and D. Perhaps Nader should've run as a D in the primaries.

All I know is our Party continues to lurch ever rightward, with or without Nader.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:48 AM

75. +1

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 02:57 PM

13. I still have the picture in my mind of ole' No. 7...

He was, at one point trying to pick a fight with the guard. He kept motioning as if to say: "C'mon, hit me!".

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Response to louis-t (Reply #13)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 10:55 PM

70. Roger Morse, bully.

Which is a nice word for "turd."

From Democrats.com:



No. 7. Roger Morse, another House aide, moved on to the law and lobbying firm Preston Gates Ellis & Rouvelas Meeds. "I was also privileged to lead a team of Republicans to Florida to help in the recount fight," he told a legal trade magazine in a 2003 interview.

...

Sources say the "rioters" proudly note their participation on résumés and in interviews.

SOURCE: http://archive.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=181.



The ringleader wasn't in the picture, former US Rep John Sweeney, (R-NY).

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Response to Octafish (Reply #70)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:03 PM

119. What a revelatory use of phrase!

Not sure about you guys, but I prefer my *election recounts* be official, bipartisan, and by the book. And decidedly free of any 'fighting' from any side...if you're fighting to make sure the election count goes in your favor, ur doin it wrong.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 03:08 PM

14. Let's not forget the Florida Legislature that was going to ignore the election results.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 03:14 PM

16. me too

especially since we knew the scotuss decision was not "for the good of the country."

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 03:19 PM

18. Same here.

There has been precious little done since then that has amounted to anything that even remotely resembles the United States we once knew. Everything is now tainted by that horrible time and what has gone on since then. You know, since then and of course since the day the world changed and all.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 03:21 PM

19. I second your fury - Here Here

I agree and the Supremes iced it. I think that Sandra Day-O'Conner rues her vote in Bush v Gore.

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Response to KauaiK (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 03:43 PM

20. Not if you believe what she was saying in her recent interview with Rachel Maddow

Rachel was unusually deferential, but don't worry: I was cringing for her.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 03:49 PM

21. The beginning of a long string of disasters.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 03:51 PM

22. You know where I'm at there.

We can't bring back all the lost lives, but I'd sure like a stab at starting to bring back the surplus Dumbya and his Emperor Palatine Veep squandered, by putting them on trial for War Crimes and then seizing all their assets as ill-gotten gains from a bloodless coup.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #22)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:04 PM

28. ****

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 03:57 PM

23. Hundreds of thousands dead because of it

 

Frankly, and even though they were not on the Supreme Court, I wouldn't have a problem if everyone in the photo were hung. But of course I'm admittedly not as kind hearted as some here are.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:00 PM

24. ME TOOOOOOOOO! I'm so tired of being told that all of the votes are never counted in any election

. . . Where is the media - serious media - 2000 was beyond election fraud - it was theft and the media giants did nothing! Tom Brokaw is busy writing about WWII - when election theft and a march to war happens without a critical press looking into anything! I would have thought a very enterprising journalist could have made a name for himself had he or she been able to document the theft - I am convinced that Rove has done it twice (2000 & 2004) planned to do it again in 2012 - but the gap was too wide and the Obama campaign and the justice department was on to him. It is beyond belief that Rove &. Co. Is accepted into circles of power. - there have to be people that know what he did - they lie they cheat and they steal and the mainstream media do nothing!

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:00 PM

25. I still think of the "Clinton surplus" squandered.

Unnecessary war combined with lowering taxes on the rich. Hard not to think of that when Republicans are constantly saying. "But but but .....we have to balance the BUD-GETTTTTT. Spending is out of control!!!! Blah blah blah !!!!

Sorry bunch of whiny ass-holes!




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Response to NCarolinawoman (Reply #25)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:21 PM

32. And they all rode off into the sunset and one of them rumor says has taken up

painting of dogs and himself. The other got a free heart, no doubt, at the expense of taxpayers. Gitmo is too good for them. I wonder if the Russians are still operating gulags in Siberia.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:03 PM

26. Set up, knocked down and

kicked around. Still in decline and will continue until the country is dead unless criminals are brought to justice.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:04 PM

27. I will never get over it.

 

Ever.

But reading your very important posts and information here over the years has helped tremendously.

I knew it would be bad, but not as bad as it has gotten. I told my spouse when they anointed/appointed him that we have an un-elected president, we are a weakened nation, who will attack us first.

Never believed it would be a person who's family was directly associated by oil business with the appointed deserter directly.


Never thought the deserter would be 'elected' to anything but now that I know the BFEE much better I see why.

My Dad and Uncle were serving in Vietnam from bases in Texas while the fortunate son was deserting, we all knew it back then.




"And the traitors, warmongers and gangsters continue to run wild over the People, the Nation and the Constitution."

Yes. It is despicable.


Thank you for helping me learn and stay sane Octafish.



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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:11 PM

29. It was a travesty

I had to let it go. Twelve years is a long time to be furious about something out of ones control. If Al Gore could let it go (and prosper), so should we.

There were so many complicit in the travesty. The courts, the media, Joe Lieberman and a host of crooks and liars.

On the bright side...just think how Gore would have been pummeled had 9/11 happened on his watch. There would not have been any of that rally around sentiment. Republicans would have been out for blood.

Now you might argue it never would have happened because Gore would not have been asleep at the wheel like Lil' Bush was but...

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:14 PM

30. whatever happened to these tools? Anyone know? nt

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Response to Javaman (Reply #30)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 09:32 PM

62. DUer stevenleser in Reply No. 5 says a couple are on Twitter.



Interesting to have them over as house guests.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:20 PM

31. Straight up corporate coup d'etat.

Financed by Wall St investors and forced down our throats by bought politicians and corporate owned media.
But we knew all that already.
And now they have their sights set on SS & Medicare. The same corporations are funding the attacks, the same result will be achieved and the same investors will shrug and say "Why is this happening? What can be done? If only I could do something!".

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:21 PM

33. "Stand up. Keep fighting."

That is the Wellstone response to 2000.

My fervent hope is that demographic shifts will ruin the victory the despots engineered in 2000.

Yes. They installed Bush by tainting the judiciary, breaching the formerly immutable Rule of Law, by thuggery, deceit, racialism, toxic cronyism, intimidation of the media, and by attacks on our bedrock principles.

They won 2000, by juggernaut. And the BFEE and the PNAC-ers and the profiteers never were held accountable.

That said, trends are moving against those actors, not for them.

Stand up. Keep fighting.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:22 PM

34. NO!!! KINGS!!!! NEVER! god dammit to hell. NEVER FORGET! & TELL EVERYONE at ANY

opportunity that presents itself, as often as possible, until you die!

NEVER. FORGET.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:24 PM

35. The day America died

.... and most don't even know it yet.

I must continually remind people, and journalists (on their comments sections) that Bush Jr has yet to win a national election. (2004 has too many anomalies, y'know)

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:25 PM

37. Caught you looking back. Shame.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:50 PM

44. I would settle for a tiny shread of justice

About a hundred scum bags pulled off the biggest heist in earth's history .Anybody that isn't pissed off is my mortal enemy ,they are deniers of truth and traitors to the world.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:54 PM

45. Yup

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 05:04 PM

47. Thank you, Octafish. It still freaks me out every time I think about it.

And every time I see John Kerry, I know he was actually elected to be our president, too. TWO elections bush and his goons STOLE, and then they have the friggin' NERVE to talk about "spreading democracy abroad" as a pretext to getting into more wars.

Yes. The 2000 election was what made it a brand new world....or at least, it made us AWARE that it is a new world. The days of the good ole USA are behind us.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 05:19 PM

51. And I will go to my death furious over the selection. nt

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 05:23 PM

52. Nov.2000 a month ahead of the recount and the SCOTUS 12/12/2000

 

Ralph Nader, bought off, stole the election for the Bush's.

NEW HAMPSHIRE
4 electoral votes
Al Gore finished Nov. with 267
4 more
271 and seated

yet some people want to blame President Obama for everything, and DFS want to throw the election to Jeb in 2016.

Disconnect.

The one surest way in all 50 states is to vote democratic and make it such a huge landslide that none of the above can ever happen again

the one surest way to insure it will happen again is to vote 3rd party or sit at home in mock protest.

and pour another glass of whine later on.

Had the internet been what it was back then, all would have been outed.

BTW, Tim Russert was one of the major problems.

But yeah, 10 million voters stayed home in 2000 over the elections mantra that it didn't matter.

2000 was a direct cause/effect of Ralph Nader's mantra.

NH was a direct way Gore would have been seated.

seated=winning..

In a normal world, without 9-11, Bush would have been handily defeated in 2004 by Al Gore in a rematch.

But my blame goes back to Adlai Stevenson not getting enough votes to defeat Eisenhower, a bumbling fool, prototype for the later Ronald Reagan.
He didn't even want to be President

But why would anyone want to hold another protest vote in 2014, 2016, 2018 and not vote for either the democratic candidate or the one who will caucus.
the worst democratic Novemenber candidate(or one who will caucus) is still better.

Surest way for 2000 not to occur is to vote FOR the 2016 nomineee, not against someone else.

But there are those out there who will continue the protest whine.
I voted for Jon Corzine, stink and all.

and I would have voted for Nader, had he played fair and square and been the democratic candidate.

Just say NO loudly to any third party presidential run.
Look at what it and democratic fracture did in 1968, 1980, 2000 and 2004.

Far easier to win in a landslide, then later say how could Gore not be seated.
4 stinking electoral votes (and some say for principal, in NH).
Made all the difference in the world.
To those, how did that Bush thing do for you?

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 06:01 PM

53. no bush v Gore =

no 9/11
no war in Iraq
no war in Afghanistan
no patriot act
no Dept. of Homeland Security
good chance no West. Va mine disaster .... W put an exec. from Murray Coal in charge of mine safety and
they blew off many warnings about the big branch mine
no turning the Gulf of Mexico into an oil and corexit mess ..... Cheney's energy task force got rid of the
acoustical cut off switch for deep water oil wells ... too expensive
no running the economy into a ditch
no turning a surplus into a deficit
no spying
no torture
no massive kill of wild run pacific salmon
no having Dick Cheney after drinking shooting a man in the face and getting away w/it
no Ohio 2004

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 06:02 PM

54. Normally I Don't Like to Look Backwards

but the Bush v. Gore decision was was a stain on the Supreme Court and on everyone who had anything to do with it. It should live in infamy for decades.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 08:31 PM

55. Yes. My anger still burns as well. It is one of the things I will never really get over, I think...

It is too maddening, too heartbreaking. I want to go to that parallel universe, the one where Gore got to take the oath of office, and we became a better America, a people who spent our money on solving the very real issues - like for instance climate change, instead of blowing trillions away on a war of choice.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 08:49 PM

56. I have this wacky theory that young people in their twenties are angry too. it underlies what they do.

That and 9/11. I think they're pissed (consciously or not) that we adults just let so much shit happen without any effective action.

I think it's why we have so many young people volunteering than they have for a while. I think it's why they are so informed and aware, I think it's why their humor is so mean and cutting.

"Oh? You don't like my tacky jokes about 9/11? Tough, you self-absorbed grief junky. if it pisses you off, shut up, and do something other then complain about a stupid joke. get something done to change the world. "

We could have done much more, and many people did nothing about---stolen elections,needless war, environment...the list goes on. In other countries people head to the streets in a stolen election.

We tell everyone how they need to act, and are at a loss as to taking action.


All a generalization about everyone. So, yknow. whatthefuckever.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 09:36 PM

63. Picture of the theft of uncounted ballots here:

I will Never forget!

12-12-2000

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Response to annabanana (Reply #63)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 07:04 AM

78. Never, ever!

I'll never forget working at our local Dem Headquarters in 2000 and all the hard and impassioned work our team did in this conservative pit of California. We were beyond crushed! Then, call me a masochist, but I did it all over again in 2004. The only good thing to come out of that fiasco was meeting my now dear friend, who marched with MLK and the rest. He can barely walk but he sure can work those phones! I can truly say I love him.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 09:50 PM

65. K&R

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 10:49 PM

68. How ironic that an actual part of the LEGAL election process enrages some people more than this...

Plenty of people on DU still whine about Nader as if a legal selection as part of the democratic process were more of an anathema to them than this ACTUAL CRIME!!!

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #68)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:59 AM

93. So true, but I've always suspected that the 'Nader' nonsense was an official ploy intended to

distract from the treasonous misuse of the SC. When someone focuses on a perfectly legal action and attempts to blame it for a major crime clearly committed, in public, on the public record without a shadow of a doubt, you have to wonder what the agenda is.

Scalia doesn't want us talking about the 2000 crime they committed. Can't say I blame him. I wouldn't either. And look at the disaster around the world, that crime set in motion. They have a lot to answer for.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 10:54 PM

69. There's no way I'll ever get over it. Thinking about it right now

is raising my blood pressure and making me think not nice things.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 11:43 PM

71. The United States of America's last gasp.

 

But that's OK, I am assured by the most trusted defenders of the status quo authoritarians here that this is nothing that cannot be fixed with a super-majority of corporate shills in blue jerseys.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:25 AM

74. My outrage over that event never diminishes.

I would not let something that important go.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:35 AM

76. Justice Stevens appropriately condemned the partisan Bush v Gore majority for its unlawful decision

A fundamental rule of law: to justify an injunction, one must show irreparable harm. Justice Scalia's assertion that counting all the Florida votes would irreparably harm George W. Bush by depriving him of respect for having actually won the election is poppycock, not sound legal reasoning. Justice Stevens is a Republican.

Florida 2000 was stolen by the same vote rigging methods that were used in Ohio 2004, by the same Rove led crew operating out of SmarTech in Chattanooga, TN. It's part of the same pattern of corrupt activity that can be exposed and made accountable in litigation under the Ohio RICO statute.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:44 AM

77. Bush ll should be in a cellar right about now,

but instead, the news media is all on his dingaling regarding his paintings. Seriously, who cares about his fetish for painting dogs? He had thousands of Americans killed in two dumb and pointless wars.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 07:12 AM

79. Since then we have found out via computer experts that the vote was hacked..... and that

not much has changed so you have a good reason to be furious...

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 07:50 AM

80. I've gotten over the anger part of my grief for the demise of our Constitution

I've accepted that the Selection happened and that it's too late to change it back. Our country can right itself, of course, but first we have to accept what has happened. Many of us can and have accepted the truth, which acceptance is very important because other things are happening now that we better pay attention to because we're sliding into Fascism.

What's done is done. Now we're in the midst of the fallout of what happened more than a decade ago. We best pay attention because history truly does march on to the next consequence.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 07:54 AM

81. I will never "get over it"

I know Nixon, Reagan, and Bush 1 were all bad (and Clinton was a real mixed bag), but the 2000 selection was when America completely went off the rails and over the cliff, imo.

Sadly, I'm not sure we'll ever recover from it.

I think you've seen this thing I wrote before, Octofish, but for what it's worth (very little), here was my contribution to resisting the coup:

http://www.bartcop.com/coupsp.htm

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:12 AM

83. For longer that I've been alive conservatives have not 'gotten over' 1960...

...even though their evidence seems to be simply invoking the name of Richard Daley, and ignoring the fact that no matter what may have happened in Chicago, if Nixon had won Illinois Kennedy still won the election: popular and electoral vote.

For half a century they have used it as justification for any and every action to win at all costs. Every dirty trick, every ratfuck, every act of voter suppression, everything period. Including everything that was done in Florida.


In 2000 the self-proclaimed "originalists" in the Supreme Court, whose stars had risen scorning "judicial activism" of previous courts, intervened to override a state supreme court and stop a recount that would determine a presidential election, using justifications so threadbare that even they noted it should not be used for precedent in future cases.

So yes, I'm still furious, and have every right to be. Far more than the conservatives' have for 1960, and they're still nursing that bottle.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:32 AM

84. If the 2000 selection was treason

Then what will you do about it?

Is it enough to recognize treason, or is it our responsibility to fight against it? To what degree?

Can treason be voted out? Petitioned?

Either we don't really believe our own rhetoric, or we have failed to defend our own liberty and democracy. That’s an epic failure.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:04 AM

86. You're missing one. The media for whoring it up for them. nt

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:47 AM

88. Hear, hear. Neither I, nor the world, will ever fully recover.

I still call Al Gore "President Gore."

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:09 AM

89. I will never, EVER get over it. Credit to G.W. and the Supremes for making me a Yella Dawg Dem.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:56 AM

91. If our Republic is headed for oblivion, the Supreme Court decision marked its beginning.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 11:33 AM

94. And all that followed

They stage fake everything. Remember they create reality. They cheat, lie and deceive.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:13 PM

96. My Login name reflects my level of annoyance with the 2000 selection n/t

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:18 PM

98. Never going to forget and never going to forgive.

rec

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:36 PM

99. Here, here! I'll never "get over it,"

 

and I'll never get over Scalia telling me to get over it.

History has already marked that Supreme Court and its decision with all the other corrupt and venal Courts--the Dred Scott Decision (ruling that African slaves were not US citizens), Plessy v. Ferguson (institutionalizing American apartheid), and Citizens' United (which gave corporations the Constitutional rights of citizens).

Oops, the last one was the same Court. Go figure.

Scalia, Thomas, Reinquist, Roberts, Kennedy. Their names will forever live in infamy.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:46 PM

100. Remember this great Q&A explainer

of the Supreme Court decision by Mark Levine. It is required reading:

http://www.mediasense.com/itsnotover/SupremeCourt-QA2.htm

I will always be furious about it and will never be over it. Because of this we had the Iraq war.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:49 PM

102. me too. Sputtering blind furious.

And apoplectic that (a nothing was done about it and b0 I get ridiculed if I suggest there should be something done about it.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 01:03 PM

103. Traitorous, warmongering thugs seems such a descriptive term. May history either

add further validity or refute.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 01:07 PM

104. Oh me too. . . .

The five justices who voted to put that imbecile into the WH should all do hard time in prison.

Furthermore, I am so disgusted with the "stenographers" who call themselves journalists in this country. There was very little criticism in the media of this entire election theft. The whole thing was disgusting, and here we are 13 years out now, and I'm still appalled and angry.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 01:14 PM

105. I can still recall the feeling in my stomach when they pulled FL back,,,,

I will never forget what I said, "AhHhhh, Christ !?"

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 01:20 PM

106. WORST SUPREME COURT DECISION EVER!!!!!!!

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Response to Initech (Reply #106)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:38 PM

117. Jack Nicholson as President James Dale in 'Mars Attacks' expressed the surreal moment...



"I want the people to know that they still have
2 out of 3 branches of the government working for them,
and that ain't bad."

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 01:42 PM

107. I am FURIOUS along with you.

And I am also saddened that Al Gore, one of my favorites, did not get to take his rightful place as POTUS.

What the Supreme Court did in 2000 what an abomination. They basically thumbed their noses (the 5 voting against) at the will of the people and took the decision out of our hands. They lost all credibility with me at that point. So basically, our votes didn't mean anything.

Some want to blame Nader voters but I don't because they were exercising their democratic right to vote for the person of their choice. To blame that is to condemn democracy. No, the blame goes squarely on the shoulders of the Supreme Court Justices who sided with Bush, along with Bush's goons in Florida who helped along with the dirty work of getting him in the White House.

And it's so painfully tragic for so many reasons, for all the things that have occurred since that fateful election. What a different world we would be living in today had President Gore been seated. I can't help but feel we should have done more. We should have all taken to the streets to protest this outrage. And our political system has only taken more advantage since then.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 01:53 PM

108. It Was Usurpation and Sedition by the Supreme Court

The Constitution gives the Supreme Court NO POWER to intervene in a Presidential Election, No power to set a deadline in vote counting. And to those who say it prevented a civil war, I say, (with old Nick) " Now in a well-ordered republic it should never be necessary to resort to extra-constitutional measures; for although they may for the time be beneficial, yet the precedent is pernicious, for if the practice is once established of disregarding the laws for good objects, they will in a little while be disregarded under that pretext for evil purposes. "

The matter should have been referred to the House of Representatives. Now it will be said that the House, being under Rethuglican control, would have elected Bush. But the substance of the Constitution would have been preserved, and not the form only.

Wolf

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:00 PM

111. Nope, not angry anymore...

It happened and we can't go back. We can't change what happened as a result. We can't undo the Iraq War. We can't bring back all who died as a result of Selection 2000.

It was a horrific time in our country and those responsible will never be held accountable.

I hope it never happens again and I can't hold onto my anger quite as long as you.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #111)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:37 PM

118. There's no statute of limitations on treason and murder...

...not sure about other corruptions in office, like outting a CIA agent and her nuclear counter-proliferation team.

Anyway, until Bush and his cronies are fully prosecuted, I will remain furious.

Don't think it's self-righteous, I want Justice. It used to be part of Democracy.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #118)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 11:23 PM

120. I want justice, too...

I don't believe we will ever have it.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:28 PM

116. Thanks for this thread, Octafish! I don't intend to get over this either!

I still hold out hope that the country may yet recover from that travesty.

One of the worst results of that Y2K selection is that, we've lost 12 years of action on global warming. Al Gore, to be objective, is like Bill Clinton, a DLC 'New Democrat.' He would still have been light-years ahead of Gee Dubya, especially in the area of the environment and global warming.

I'm tempted to start a thread on what Circle of Hell should be reserved for the traitors who put Dubya into office and proceeded to lie us into a disastrous war, then prolong that war when it should have ended years ago.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Wed Mar 27, 2013, 12:36 AM

121. I'm also mildly miffed about the 1848 election,

 

and marginally displeased with the 1892 election, and I'm downright annoyed at the election of 1912, but somehow I get on with my life.

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