If a friend at school gave my daughter prescription meds

[Snake Alchemist]

because she "thought" she had X illness and she had a reaction to it or worse, lost her life, I would sue the school (if there was blatant negligence, as in it was in plain sight and completely ignored) out of existence and sue the girl and her family for pain and suffering.

People "trying" to help without medical knowledge can make things unbelievably worse in a short period of time.

[msongs]

1. why is the school responsible for what you/your daughter's friends do? nt

[Snake Alchemist]

2. They are supposed to be supervising while on school grounds. nt

[left coaster]

5. That would surely involve the use of surveillance cameras EVERYWHERE on campus..

..including the restroom stalls. I would not want that, as a parent.

In my opinion, the girl, her friend, and both sets of parents, respectively, are primarily responsible for what transpires between the two.

[Snake Alchemist]

9. It would depend how obvious it was.

If it was in the middle of gym class than that really would not apply. I can see your point though.

[Kellerfeller]

64. So you expect a gym teacher

to be hovering over your kid listening to their conversation and watching everything she does?

If one of them pulls something out of their pocket and hands it to the other, the teacher should rush over and see what it was/

If it is math class and the teacher is doing something crazy like writing on the board, he/she should also be watching every action of the class behind him/her?

That's nuts.

You should sue yourself for not teaching your kid not to take medicine (or any pills) that she doesn't know exactly what they are and trusts (as an authority on the topic) who they came from.

[Snake Alchemist]

65. Read the OP. nt

[Kellerfeller]

70. Your definition of "out in plain sight" is vague

Having taught and been a student, I can tell you a lot of things go on in the classroom that the teacher has no awareness of because they are teaching, which sometimes requires focusing on the board or another student.

[Snake Alchemist]

73. I believe plain sight has a pretty specific definition. nt

[Kellerfeller]

79. Something a mile away is in plain sight

That doesn't mean I could see what two girls were doing.

By you definition, that situation applies as "in plain sight".

For the record, the sun is also in plain sight. I wouldn't be able to see what your daughter was doing there either.

[Snake Alchemist]

80. Definition

http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/plain_1

[Kellerfeller]

83. Thanks!

That confirmed what I just said.

[Snake Alchemist]

86. If you say so. nt

[montanto]

7. How are they supposed to know everything that goes on on school grounds?

Especially when kids know that they aren't to be "exchanging prescription medication" and seek to hide such activities?

[muriel_volestrangler]

13. So if it happened in your daughter's bedroom, you'd blame yourself?

What would you do - give all your belongings to charity and become a monk? Make yourself homeless?

Do you expect the school to permanently bug all your daughter's conversations? To do a body search of her each day, and to count the amount of any prescrpition medications she brings in and takes out? How else would they prevent one pupil giving another medicines?

[Snake Alchemist]

17. If it happened in my living room while we were watching TV then yes.

I agreed with another poster that if it happened somewhere secluded at school than that would have to be considered.

[HuckleB]

29. If they were supervising in a manner that would guarantee that such a thing could not happen...

... then the school probably couldn't afford any teachers. Further, few parents would send their kids to school.

Sheesh.

[XemaSab]

31. You know how many kids have sex in middle schools and high schools every day?

And yet you think that teachers and staff should be able to keep an eye out for a kid taking a hit off an inhaler?

[Snake Alchemist]

41. During class? If they're missing that then I can see the problem. nt

[1monster]

43. Sorry, that won't fly. The schools generally EXPELL any student found

to have given prescription meds to other students on school grounds.

The school go so far as to deny students the the right to supervise their own meds on the campus. The parents have to bring the meds in to the school office or clinic along with copius paperwork inclduing the doctor's signature. Then when it is time for the student to take the meds, the student presents him/herself to the office and the nurse or appointed school personnel dispenses the meds to the student.

Ergo, if the student had prescription meds in school, it would be the parent's fault, not the school's.

Someone is always trying to appropriate serious money needed for the kids education without any thought to the consequenses of the kids.

[Snake Alchemist]

46. That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. nt

[ohiosmith]

3. Deep pockets.

[madmax]

27. I agree completely. nt

[HuckleB]

28. Exactly.

[yellowcanine]

4. So you would sue a school girl for being ignorant while trying to help your daughter?

Sorry but that seems extreme and how exactly does it accomplish anything positive?

[Snake Alchemist]

6. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Same as I would sue a plumber who caused flooding or a doctor who botched a surgery even if they were "trying to help".

[yellowcanine]

57. Bad examples. Plumbers and doctors are paid professionals. A school girl is .....a school girl.

You can't seriously think there is any comparison.

[Snake Alchemist]

58. Then it's even worse because they have no technical skills.

At least the professionals may have been using their training.

[yellowcanine]

59. You are a seriously confused person.

[Snake Alchemist]

60. Try opening a DU thread saying that you are having strange symptoms and ask

for advice. The reaction should tell you something.

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. Some people see dollar signs in everything.

it's sad.

While I don't think the girl should have made that assumption, and would have been better off drawing the attention of the teacher, to say one would sue illustrates what is wrong with our country. Sue crazy, over a sense of self righteousness is still sue crazy.

[Snake Alchemist]

14. Yes.

Same as I would sue a girl who was driving my daughter and was to a party and was in an accident due to negligence. Even though she was helping her out by giving her a ride.

[Kellerfeller]

66. You mean like the ignorance your daughter demonstrated

in taking a pill she didn't know what it was or what it did?

Maybe her parent(s) should have taught her better.

[Snake Alchemist]

72. And I would take that into account.

Takes two to tango though. If there was medical bills, I would ask for half and pain and suffering if applicable.

[Kellerfeller]

77. And then I assume you would also then compensate

the other kid for the suffering and guilt of knowing she accidentally hurt her friend. If yours is worth something, so is hers.

[Snake Alchemist]

78. Doesn't quite work that way.

Drunk driver kills a toddler crossing the road, but just feels terrible about it. Courts award him...........

[Kellerfeller]

81. Drunk driving is illegal

If a sober driver struck and killed a toddler who ran out in the road (not at a crosswalk), courts wouldn't award the parents anything.

OK, maybe a "you should have been taking care of your kid" lecture.

That is a better analogy.

[Snake Alchemist]

85. They might.

Would depend on how much time the driver had to react, other factors.

[Kellerfeller]

96. If they had time to react and didn't

Then they intentionally hit the kid.

[Snake Alchemist]

98. Not necessarily.

Could be distracted, could be just day dreaming. Doesn't have to be intentional.

[ScreamingMeemie]

8. Yeah...

you said that in the other thread.

[Snake Alchemist]

10. And sometimes that is how OP's are born. nt

[ScreamingMeemie]

15. Not really. But we can disagree.

On this and the idea that everything that happens should net someone compensation.

[Snake Alchemist]

18. Is there really ever a net? Can you quantify emotional damage? nt

[HuckleB]

32. Can you quantify the crappy state of existence that your world of constant lawsuits would create?

Goodness.

[ScreamingMeemie]

34. I can form an opinion.

7 years ago I had what should have been a relatively simple operation. Due to an error on the part of the prep nurses (they forgot to hook up antibiotics to my IV) I contracted a staph infection and a yeast infection in my lungs. If not for my husband paying attention (and staying with me... ALWAYS stay with your loved ones people) I would have died. So we sued.

No...we didn't. My GP apologized. I was alive.

If a child were to think they were helping my child? I'd be happy they cared. Glad that nothing serious happened to my child, but happy they cared enough. It is intent that counts, in my opinion.

[Snake Alchemist]

37. That's fine. Until it happens to the next person with different results. nt

[HuckleB]

39. The world you want would lead to some rather horrific results and costs.

When people are doing jobs focused on doing what they can to avoid lawsuits, they are not doing their jobs to the best of their ability, nor to the greatest benefit of their customers, patients, etc... It's not a world that makes a lick of sense.

[Snake Alchemist]

40. Sounds like libertarian bullhockey to me. nt

[HuckleB]

42. Hardly.

Your world sounds like a place where everyone fears everyone else. No one develops a community for fear of being sued, etc...

It makes helicopter parents look good.

[ScreamingMeemie]

48. I believe in accidents. Sorry, but I am not sue crazy. And there is no

reason to sue either the school or the child's parent in this case. Unless one is looking for an easy payout. People do learn from accidents. Attaching a monetary punishment is ludicrous.

[Snake Alchemist]

50. So you at lease required a review of the prep nurses procedures by the hospital?

Or maybe you insisted they have training reviews?

I just hope the next person didn't end up being the really sorry one.

[ScreamingMeemie]

52. What happened to me was sorry enough. Thank you for caring.

A meeting was held with my GP and the surgeon on my case. This still doesn't address why you think, somehow, that I should have gained financially from it. People tend to learn from accidents. Suing someone isn't going to educate them any further than the actual mistake did.

[Snake Alchemist]

53. Suing someone will definitely force the hospital to fire someone who is not competent.

I'm glad you held a meeting, but they tend to protect their own unless there's money on the line. Kind of like cops.

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. We will have to agree to disagree on this.

An honest mistake happened. And they were sincerely sorry for it.

[Snake Alchemist]

55. I hope so and I hope it was not a training issue. nt

[ScreamingMeemie]

56. It was an oversight, due to rushing in the early AM, which they acknowledged.

You know how they ask (eleventy billion times) if you are allergic to anything in the pre-op room? They didn't. They didn't go through the check list because I was a (what I imagine) last minute add on for this (non elective) surgery. Was I pissed? Hell yeah. It sucks to not be able to breathe and have someone bring you nasal saline because they were not understanding that you couldn't get oxygen out of the air. What happened on the upper floors (not catching the infection until it was almost too late) was reprehensible and due to severe nursing under staffing.

[PotatoChip]

61. Umm... oh never mind.

Subject for another day.

Keep on keeping on ScreamingMeemie!

[ScreamingMeemie]

62. You can ask anything.

I don't get offended easily.

this has turned out to be an interesting discussion, from a thread that I thought was a continuation of a flaming one.

[PotatoChip]

63. No

Something suddenly occured to me that was none of my business. I almost jumped in w/a question about it, but thought the better of it.

Yes, now w/the new sofware I could have actually deleted the whole thing -or- better yet, not posted at all as I realized this before hitting that oh-so-tempting---Post my reply! button... but didn't stop myself.

Never mind me. I enjoy your posts immensely ScreamingMeemie! And i mean that in a good way- I've seen you on other threads and you never fail to amaze and amuse-- Again, in a good way... I'm on your side at least 99% of the time it seems (including here).

My apologies for interupting and please, carry on!

[slackmaster]

12. i would sue if and only if actual damage resulted

Suing someone for a victimless act is IMO an abuse of the legal system.

[Snake Alchemist]

16. Agreed.

Would have to be medical costs or some sort of damages.

[Justice wanted]

19. Why not tell people the facts of your hypotheical. That this thread was influence by this one;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002252162


Have fun with your thread.

[southernyankeebelle]

20. If the young girl 1 asked for something because she didn't feel well and the girl 2, gave it

to her and girl 1 took the medication should have some responsibility also. It's not like girl 2 wanted to kill her. But I don't see how you would hold the school for this. Especially since you might have 35 to 40 kids in classes today. How much do you want to put on a teacher? Especially if they are in high school.

[Snake Alchemist]

21. True. I would hold them partially responsible.

I conceded that it would depend on the situ. If it was during the middle of gym class then that is unacceptable.

[southernyankeebelle]

22. If girl 1 didn't feel well she should of asked her teacher if she could go to the nurse.

[Snake Alchemist]

23. Absolutely. nt

[CaliforniaPeggy]

24. Most schools don't have nurses, or anyone who fills that role.

What then?

[southernyankeebelle]

25. Go to the office ask the adminstrator at the front if you can call your parent because you are ill.

Do you think they would turn them down? I don't.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

26. That would probably work.

[southernyankeebelle]

30. I think so also. However, if the school wouldn't let her call her parent and my child got

sicker you better believe the next day I am going to call the school.

[JoePhilly]

82. You ever had an asthma attack?

If its a bad attack, you can't ask anyone for anything. You can barely inhale.

This is the dilemma ...

There is a person in front of you who can't breathe. They appear to be having an asthma attack. You have an inhaler.

What do you do?

I can tell you this ... if the child in this case WAS having an asthma attack, and the friend had "saved" them ... they would all be on EVERY morning show this week praised as a hero.

[southernyankeebelle]

88. If I saw a child having an attack and struggle to breath you bet I'd

be screaming for an adult. I had a girlfriend who had one. I didn't know she had asthma and we all were having fun and running around playing until she landed on the grown. At first I thought she was kidding. Then I noticed she wasn't moving and boy I got up screaming to my sister to run and get my dad and he came out running and the girl's mom came running. Thank god she was ok but I was mad because I didn't know she had asthma. After that I learned not to panic because it doesn't help her if they see you panic. Any time I see someone struggling I make sure they are laying still and get help and I don't give them anything.

[JoePhilly]

107. Yes, but you are an adult.

I grew up with Asthma in the 70s. And back then, the emergency "treatment" was "stay still, remain calm, and breathe shallow and slowly".

Many kids with Asthma today (like one of my daughters) has been TRAINED to identify the onset of an attack. They do so because if you reach the point where you can not breathe, they know they also can't talk. And so, in a sense, they are trained to be "proactive" with regards to their own medical condition.

I'm still waiting to hear what actual issue the other child had in this situation. The known side effects for most inhalers are very minor. And so I wonder how much of the "distress" in this situation was unavoidable. That is, did the use of the inhaler make things worse, or actually have no effect at all. Which would leave the original medical issue as the true problem.

I've yet to see a report that describes what the original medical issue was.

[southernyankeebelle]

108. Well being a 12 yr old and not even knowing she had asthma I didn't know the signs

and still don't. But I have been enough around seizures to scare me to death to know to call an ambulance and get to the ER. It's one thing to have a head ache and someone having a attack. No one should give the child anything.

[HuckleB]

33. How does it being in gym class make it any different than any other time?

WTH?

[Snake Alchemist]

36. You don't see any difference between being in a supervised class setting and

hiding in a bathroom stall?

[HuckleB]

38. Gym class can be spread out a great deal.

Some kids may be in the locker, etc...

Heck, there's no way that a single teacher can watch every kid in a regular classroom to the extent where something like this could be definitively stopped, especially if the teacher wants to actually teach the kids.

[Snake Alchemist]

47. True, but I believe this was out in the open during the class.

I guess it would depend on how blatant it was.

[HuckleB]

49. How would anyone know?

"Out in the open" can be meaningless, if a teacher is teaching another student a specific skill for a moment, that's all it would take. Teachers are supposed to teach, right?

[Snake Alchemist]

51. I changed my OP because you convinced me.

It would have to be blatant and be able to be documented as so.

[REP]

35. I think you should also burn the buildings and salt the fields

Just to be safe.

[PotatoChip]

44. What a wierd OP! Am I missing something?

Assuming I am not, I will take this bizarre Q on face value...

Re: paragraph #1, why would you sue the school and not the parents of hypothetical child who brought the drugs into the hypothetical school?

Re: paragraph #2, What?

[Horse with no Name]

67. My granddaughter is 8

and we have taught her not to take ANY drugs of ANY kind...even from friends.

She is 8 and has known better since she started school.

I am sorry for any harm to a child, however, the fault doesn't lie with the school.

[FarCenter]

68. Unlikely hypothetical --- prescription meds generally would not do anything

Prescription meds that are commonly available are intended to treat some condition. If the person taking the prescription med doesn't have the condition, nothing happens. For example, if you don't have a pain, taking a pain killer will not do anything unless it is one of the ones that gives you a buzz.

Possibly it might cause a reaction, like an allergic reaction to penicilin. However, if your child has allergies, they should know about them so that they can refuse treatment if you are not around in case of emergency. If the allergy is sever, they should have a bracelet or some other warning.

Prescription meds are not usually dangerous or powerful. Mostly they are just the ones that the doctors and pharmacists and drug companies want to keep charging monopoly prices for.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

69. This is a sad and empty way to approach life

I haven't yet developed a list of who I would sue under what circumstances. I don't think I will.

[LanternWaste]

71. I guess it comes down to what kind of people we are inside.

I should have sued my friend for giving me penicillin when I received a terrible laceration on my head on a camping trip and blacked out. However, as I am allergic to penicillin, I had a pretty bad reaction to it. I guess I should sued the friend out of existence for negligence, my pain and my suffering. As he was "trying" to help without the relevant medical knowledge and made things unbelievably worse in a short period of time. But I didn't. We stayed close friends and laugh about to this day.


And to be honest, if I did sue him, regardless of the outcome, I would have been doing nothing but gaming the system, advertising my vulgarity, and letting everyone know that I'm not to be trusted if they try to help me-- regardless if they fail or not. But I'm rather certain you will imply that none of the above applies in your case...

I guess it comes down to what kind of people we are inside.

[Snake Alchemist]

74. I assume you were an adult?

And were conscious? Apples and pomegranates.

[LanternWaste]

91. Aged sixteen. Pomegranates and pomegranates...

Aged sixteen. Pomegranates and pomegranates...

And didja miss the part where I wrote I blacked out, or did I simply type it too fast for you, chief?

[Snake Alchemist]

97. How did you consume penacillin while unconscious?

Now that is talent.

[LanternWaste]

100. Cool thing called the reflexive responses...

Cool thing called the esophageal reflexive response... we had those back in the eighties too.


Bless your little heart... keep trying.

Again.. it all comes down to what kind of person we are on the inside.

[Snake Alchemist]

103. You cannot cough or swallow if you had "blacked out"

This is a good story though.

[MicaelS]

75. Attitudes like yours lead to people not willing to be Good Samaritans

To avoid getting sued. I wouldn't award you one penny.

[mainstreetonce]

76. No student

Should be able to give another prescription meds at school. The drugs should be kept in the medical office. The student who dispensed the drug most likely broke a serious school rule by carrying the drug around. The school would not be liable.

[morningfog]

102. A student who suffers from asthma should not be permitted to carry an inhaler?

[mainstreetonce]

106. There may be

Some cases where with a medical note, the student carries the inhaler, but in many cases they are kept in the medical office.

[morningfog]

84. LOL. You would lose both suits, too.

[Snake Alchemist]

90. No results yet, but I believe these have held up in court.

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/b8eb2b3e9bb544b9a203c37661faf5f8/OK--Fatal-Accident-Lawsuit/

[morningfog]

92. Not close to the same fact pattern or same legal question.

[Snake Alchemist]

95. By your logic it was her fault for getting into the car. nt

[morningfog]

101. How do you know my logic?

I didn't tell it to you. I just critiqued yours.

But, I will let you in on a bit of it. First, your hypothetical student did not receive tickets for offering medications. Your hypothetical student did not modify the product to make it more unsafe. You hypothetical student would not likely meet the same standard of reckless that the driver probably does.

Next, the school was not put on the same notice of a recurring act, like the parents of the driver were.

That is just some of my logic. Please do not assume my logic when I dismiss yours.

I would also be surprised if the parents in the suit you linked to win $4 million. Although, stranger things have happened.

[Snake Alchemist]

105. Yes, but it is still illegal.

That fact would go a long way.

Who said the parents of the driver received notice?

Could be, we'll just have to wait and see.

[Gold Metal Flake]

87. Why? It would be your fault.

After all, you would be responsible for not teaching your daughter to refuse the offer of any drugs from anyone who is not her or your physician, prescription or otherwise.

In fact, here you are posting on the internets and not teaching your daughter this. Parental malpractice, I say. maybe you should call child protective services on yourself.

[Snake Alchemist]

89. LOL.

Let's put it another way. Stacey is a bad driver. Brenda really wants to go to the party, but doesn't drive. She asks dad for a ride, and dad agrees not really knowing much about Stacey's specific driving skills. Just that she has a car and the party isn't too far. On the way, Stacey fumbles for her phone to receive a text and the car flips on the interstate. Brenda loses an arm.

Who's fault is it? And how do you think the courts would see it.

[morningfog]

93. That is no where near the same case you are wanting to bring.

[Snake Alchemist]

94. Fairly similar in concept.

And prescription drugs are even illegal to share.

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/teenfaq/a/illegal_pills.htm

[morningfog]

99. Actually, there have been successful tort cases where people

have sold prescription drugs, and caused another person to die.

But, there would still probably be no claim against the school. And, in the case of a friend offering help in good faith, you would be hard pressed to have a case against the student.

[Snake Alchemist]

104. Very interesting.

I would love to read those over. Have any links?

I agree that the claim against the school would be tenuous at best. Unless some teacher was told and just completely ignored the situation.

[Gold Metal Flake]

109. Let's put it another way.

You are playing on the internets. After posting a bunch of bullshit, someone else loses interest. Should you cry or do the laundry? Maybe another bowl.

[Snake Alchemist]

110. LOL. nt