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Sat Mar 16, 2013, 03:55 PM

Tran Pacific Plan about to end almost all American Dreams

Back in the quaint Eighteenth Century, when Business Leaders wanted to have some idea of theirs go forward, legislatively speaking, it was required for Congress to pass the "Act" by a two thirds majority vote.

Since then, the One Percent has become much more savvy. Currently, a game-changing proposal is afloat, off in secret, and sometime later this year, it will not go to Congress as an "Act" but as a "Plan." This means the legislation will only require a simple majority in Congress to become law. And once it becomes law, it will set forth the most onerous set of rules that any American has ever faced.

Do you think our prison system is run poorly now? What will that same system be like when the Chinese are running it? Are you happy that here in California, cars must be built to have maximum fuel efficiency? Well, it's possible that under the TPP, those laws won't apply to any foreign auto maker whose cars aren't built to meet those standards.

Meanwhile, is some local law allowing your chosen neck of the woods to have a cleaner environment than other areas of the world? Well, wait till those laws are seen as being subservient to the TPP legisaltion, and you will watch your protections quickly fade away.


From way back in Lat Fall, 2010, Truth Out has this to say about the Trans Pacific Plan:
http://truth-out.org/news/item/12934-why-so-secretive?-the-trans-pacific-partnership-as-global-coup

For example, public interest groups have been warning that the TPP could result in millions of lost jobs. As a letter from Congress to United States Trade Representative Ron Kirk stated, the TPP “will create binding policies on future Congresses in numerous areas,” including “those related to labor, patent and copyright, land use, food, agriculture and product standards, natural resources, the environment, professional licensing, state-owned enterprises and government procurement policies, as well as financial, healthcare, energy, telecommunications and other service sector regulations.” In other words, as promised, the TPP goes far beyond “trade.”

Dubbed by many as “NAFTA on steroids” and a “corporate coup,” only two of the TPP’s 26 chapters actually have anything to do with trade. Most of it grants far-reaching new rights and privileges to corporations, specifically related to intellectual property rights (copyright and patent laws), as well as constraints on government regulations.

The leaked documents revealed that the Obama administration “intends to bestow radical new political powers upon multinational corporations,” as Obama and Kirk have emerged as strong advocates “for policies that environmental activists, financial reform advocates and labor unions have long rejected for eroding key protections currently in domestic laws.”

In other words, the already ineffective and mostly toothless environmental, financial, and labor regulations that exist are unacceptable to the Obama administration and the 600 corporations aligned with the TPP who are giving him his orders. Also, the agreement stipulates that foreign corporations operating in the United States would no longer be subject to domestic U.S. laws regarding protections for the environment, finance or labor rights, and could appeal to an “international tribunal” which would be given the power to overrule American law and impose sanctions on the U.S. for violating the new “rights” of corporations.

####

What else will the TPP do? Here's statement from Doctors without Borders March 2013:

“The negotiations are being conducted in secret, but leaked drafts of the agreement include aggressive intellectual property (IP) rules that would restrict access to affordable, lifesaving medicines for millions of people.

Proposed by U.S. negotiators, the IP rules enhance patent and data protections for pharmaceutical companies, dismantle public health safeguards enshrined in international law, and obstruct price-lowering generic competition for medicines.”

A bit of text from Common Dreams Also, March 2013:

Meanwhile, provisions in the proposed investment chapter would give pharmaceutical companies the right to sue governments for instituting any regulation that reduces their expected profits, using private tribunals that circumvent a country’s judicial process

####

So this is an indication that all the "wonderful" Eleventh dimensional chess that guaranteed that Big Insurers and Big Pharma could continue to raise their prices Sky High, will now be a policy for the people of the entire TPP region to rejoice in! No more generic medicines! Ability to claim that decent drugs, that happen to be inexpensive as they are now outside the patenting provisions (items like Benadryl, and other over the counter drugs) can be eliminated simply by some foreign company stating that they are not safe. This all certainly brings the ACA process regarding generic drugs and drug re-importation into a much sharper focus.

And if you think that our laws that help keep our environment are extremely lacking in power of enforcement, just wait! Do you ever think BP Cleanup, or think Fracking and oil refinery pollution is out of control? Wait till the TPP is in effect. These past few years will seem like a Golden age, when contrasted with this new piece of legislative "Planning."

On edit: Here are two separate reports on the Trans Pacific Plan. The first report is favorable; the report from the Citizens' Trade Org is far from favorable.

A PDF that details which nations are part of the plan, and various statistics regarding the nations and their populations. This study is a study favoring the USA doing this:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42344.pdf

Disapproving report of the TPP
http://www.citizenstrade.org/ctc/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/TransPacificFactsheet.pdf

"Democracy Now" has also had some decent programs regarding the issue, with the following link reminding us of various pledges that Barack Obama made to us back in 2008, that are now just inconvenient campaign promises, there to be broken:
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/6/14/breaking_08_pledge_leaked_trade_doc

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/6/14/breaking_08_pledge_leaked_trade_doc

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Arrow 109 replies Author Time Post
Reply Tran Pacific Plan about to end almost all American Dreams (Original post)
truedelphi Mar 2013 OP
truedelphi Mar 2013 #1
KoKo Mar 2013 #2
truedelphi Mar 2013 #4
forestpath Mar 2013 #3
truedelphi Mar 2013 #6
forestpath Mar 2013 #8
fasttense Mar 2013 #65
djean111 Mar 2013 #7
forestpath Mar 2013 #9
bvar22 Mar 2013 #18
KoKo Mar 2013 #21
MotherPetrie Mar 2013 #33
limpyhobbler Mar 2013 #60
truth2power Mar 2013 #69
NoMoreWarNow Mar 2013 #82
truth2power Mar 2013 #107
n2doc Mar 2013 #5
truedelphi Mar 2013 #10
KoKo Mar 2013 #12
truedelphi Mar 2013 #37
truth2power Mar 2013 #71
truth2power Mar 2013 #70
Eleanors38 Mar 2013 #79
SammyWinstonJack Mar 2013 #85
JohnyCanuck Mar 2013 #11
abelenkpe Mar 2013 #13
Cedric the Clam Mar 2013 #14
KoKo Mar 2013 #27
KoKo Mar 2013 #44
cui bono Mar 2013 #64
Dustlawyer Mar 2013 #83
WCGreen Mar 2013 #15
KT2000 Mar 2013 #25
CrispyQ Mar 2013 #84
NoMoreWarNow Mar 2013 #87
HiPointDem Mar 2013 #26
FiveGoodMen Mar 2013 #35
irisblue Mar 2013 #56
stuntcat Mar 2013 #74
octoberlib Mar 2013 #16
Cedric the Clam Mar 2013 #17
Lifelong Protester Mar 2013 #23
tomg Mar 2013 #29
They_Live Mar 2013 #40
Maineman Mar 2013 #67
Duppers Mar 2013 #93
green for victory Mar 2013 #19
pa28 Mar 2013 #20
beyurslf Mar 2013 #22
KoKo Mar 2013 #28
HiPointDem Mar 2013 #24
JDPriestly Mar 2013 #30
RobertEarl Mar 2013 #31
secondvariety Mar 2013 #32
KoKo Mar 2013 #34
PufPuf23 Mar 2013 #58
truth2power Mar 2013 #73
Auggie Mar 2013 #36
Pakid Mar 2013 #38
truedelphi Mar 2013 #41
woo me with science Mar 2013 #45
Cedric the Clam Mar 2013 #46
KoKo Mar 2013 #95
truedelphi Mar 2013 #103
NorthCarolina Mar 2013 #39
woo me with science Mar 2013 #42
green for victory Mar 2013 #48
woo me with science Mar 2013 #50
Phlem Mar 2013 #54
NorthCarolina Mar 2013 #66
historylovr Mar 2013 #43
TheUnspeakable Mar 2013 #47
mtasselin Mar 2013 #49
woo me with science Mar 2013 #53
NoMoreWarNow Mar 2013 #88
limpyhobbler Mar 2013 #51
reACTIONary Mar 2013 #52
yourout Mar 2013 #55
Cedric the Clam Mar 2013 #68
AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #57
Berlum Mar 2013 #75
blackspade Mar 2013 #59
Alkene Mar 2013 #61
UtahLib Mar 2013 #62
We People Mar 2013 #63
RB TexLa Mar 2013 #72
Octafish Mar 2013 #77
RB TexLa Mar 2013 #81
Elwood P Dowd Mar 2013 #97
Madmiddle Mar 2013 #76
sorefeet Mar 2013 #78
dkf Mar 2013 #80
NoMoreWarNow Mar 2013 #89
dkf Mar 2013 #90
NoMoreWarNow Mar 2013 #96
NoMoreWarNow Mar 2013 #86
Auggie Mar 2013 #91
PETRUS Mar 2013 #92
sulphurdunn Mar 2013 #94
truedelphi Mar 2013 #99
green for victory Mar 2013 #100
sulphurdunn Mar 2013 #105
sulphurdunn Mar 2013 #104
truedelphi Mar 2013 #108
sulphurdunn Mar 2013 #109
loudsue Mar 2013 #98
truedelphi Mar 2013 #101
woo me with science Mar 2013 #102
Orsino Mar 2013 #106

Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:02 PM

1. Please note that many of the states that are choosing to become marijuana "friendly" might find out

That the Global Elite is not in favor of such policies, and that their TPP forbids such "friendliness." It is hard to figure out why the TPP would go to such extremes that in its language, it will make it hard for a system of pharmaceutical formularies that is unfriendly to the vested interests behind the TPP to exist - and if that is its guiding philosophy: Bye Bye Marijuana Legalization!

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:11 PM

2. Thanks for the post about this...

Hopefully DU'ers will keep posting anything they can find about TPP...because it's being done in secret and we won't know what's in it until it's passed. Then it will be too late.

K&R

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Response to KoKo (Reply #2)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:16 PM

4. Apparently the President has stated he wants this done by Halloween -

Guess it really is Zombie legislation!

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:15 PM

3. The whole country - under the bus. So the rich can get richer. Did ANYONE vote for THIS?

 

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Response to forestpath (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:25 PM

6. According to what I am reading, the Plan needs to be accepted by all the

Nations involved. (So far, New Zealand, Chile, Singapore and Brunei/Malaysia, Vietnam, Australia, Canada, The USA. And Peru wants inclusion possibly as well.)

Then after all the various input is assembled and decided on, as to the wording of the Plan, it should be brought back to the Congress here in USA -so that a simple majority can pass it. (Again, that is why this item is labelled a "Plan" and not an Act - an Act requires a two thirds majority of Congress, hard to do with these "Free Trade agreements. What makes it difficult is because the citizenry does end up getting involved and demanding their Congress people oppose it or get ousted from office next time around. )

Pres Obama has stipulated he wants this done by Halloween - but I am not sure if he simply wants all the international talks to be concluded, or if he wants the whole thing ratified by Congress here in the States by then.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #6)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:28 PM

8. I'd guess the latter.

 

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 07:27 AM

65. It's the US Constitution that requires 2/3 vote for approval of treaties

Art. 2 Sec. 2 - "He (the President) shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur;"

That's why all these "free" trade treaties are called agreements or plans or anything else but what they really are - treaties with other countries.

Interesting that when it comes to exchange of services, doctors are NOT included.

But mostly this NAFTA on steroids takes away the rights of local businesses, customers and citizens and elevates the rights of multinational corporations to that of Lords and kings.

The T-Pee-Pee will make it illegal to have local or national laws that protect consumers, the environment, labor, workers, local businesses, farmer's markets. If you've been wondering what's in our milk now, just imagine how absolutely awful it will be when China and Japan sells us their milk at low, low prices wiping out what remains of our dairy farms.

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Response to forestpath (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:26 PM

7. Votes mean nothing the day after an election.

The TPP is revolting, and I have no doubt we will be treated to a smooth line of bullshit when it is enacted.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:29 PM

9. I have no doubt either.

 

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Response to djean111 (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:20 PM

18. That IS WHY all the negotiations were done in secret,

...and WHY neither Party mentioned it during the Campaign & Debates of 2012.
Of Course, the Leadership of BOTH Political Parties support the Privatization and Coporatization of Every-Fucking-Thing,
so there would not be any real debate.

Unless you happened to tune in to some 3rd Party Discussions hidden way back on the unwatched cable channels, or have the luxury of haunting the Internet Political Discussion sites, you wouldn't know a thing about this.

This is ALL going to happen without most Americans even knowing about it.


There is no such thing as "Free Trade."
There is no such thing as "Free Markets."
The is NO Giant Invisible Hand.
The RICH (Corporate Owners) made that shit up to drive down wages,
bust Unions,
and avoid Environmental Regulations.



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Response to bvar22 (Reply #18)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:30 PM

21. So true...

"Unless you happened to tune in to some 3rd Party Discussions hidden way back on the unwatched cable channels, or have the luxury of haunting the Internet Political Discussion sites, you wouldn't know a thing about this."

But then...that's all just "conspiracy theory" international news reporting. Obama would never support anything like this...it's the Republicans who want to do this to us and theyknow that there's nothing we can do about it because they have THE VOTES....

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Response to forestpath (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 06:19 PM

33. No and I wish I could take my vote back

 

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Response to forestpath (Reply #3)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 12:39 AM

60. We kind of all voted for it because both candidates supported it.

We didn't have much in the way of a choice.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #60)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 09:32 AM

69. Were there only two candidates? I didn't know that. n/t

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Response to truth2power (Reply #69)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 11:24 AM

82. on this discussion board there was

 

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Response to NoMoreWarNow (Reply #82)

Tue Mar 19, 2013, 10:57 AM

107. Thank yew.


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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:25 PM

5. The Icon worshippers will be along soon to tell us how we are wrong

Last edited Sun Mar 17, 2013, 11:27 AM - Edit history (1)

First it will be "Obama doesn't support this, show me where he supports what you are posting, the exact thing with no differences in phrasing allowed!" Then "Well,maybe he does (Still won't accept that notion until he signs it), but it is different than described and it really is a great thing for America!" then finally "You must be a Rmoney/McCain supporter-why don't you go post on free republic?"

On edit- I forgot their other tactic- ridicule the source- No source is good enough for them if it criticizes the Infallible President. Examples down thread.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #5)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:30 PM

10. One of my favorite news orgs - one that has real journalists -

Published a 2013 article on Obama's major involvement during the State of The Union address week era

http://inthesetimes.com/article/14571/will_president_obama_push_an_offshoring_agenda_in_sotu/

Yes, He Did: Obama Plugged Trans-Pacific Partnership While Touting ‘Middle Class’ Growth

The Trans-Pacific Partnership is an imminent threat to American workers–and it has the Obama administration’s full support.
BY Roger Bybee

If the TPP were a central topic of debate in Congress and in the news, it would be certain to trigger alarm bells among a broad swath of Americans.

Updated at 10p.m. EST on February 12 after the State of the Union address.

President Obama, who disappointed workers’ rights advocates by snubbing labor in his inaugural speech, likely horrified them during Tuesday's State of the Union by not only overlooking unions again but also devoting a section of the speech to promoting the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), a gigantic trade pact that has been described by Public Citizen’s Global Trade Watch director Lori Wallach as “NAFTA on steroids. ” By uniting the U.S. and 10 other nations along the Pacific Rim, the TPP threatens to spur the increased offshoring of jobs to Vietnam and Malaysia, which are increasingly being touted as even lower-wage alternatives to the miserable but rising wages prevailing in China.

Near the end of his State of the Union Address, the president announced:

We should remember that today’s world presents not only dangers, but opportunities. To boost American exports, support American jobs, and level the playing field in the growing markets of Asia, we intend to complete negotiations on a Trans-Pacific Partnership.

By pushing the TPP, Obama is fundamentally undermining his promise to build “an economy that works for everyone,” and—as Bill Clinton did with NAFTA—deeply alienating a substantial portion of his base along with much of the general public. No less than 53 percent of Americans are convinced that free trade has sapped America’s economic vigor.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #10)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:35 PM

12. There have been posts about it

on Common Dreams and Nation of Change and Democracy Now websites. I and others have posted snips of those articles. They always sink like a stone.

Hopefully if people keep posting here and other places on social media it will eventually get more notice.

It's being done in Secret by a President who campaigned on "ending the secrecy." Which is sad...but, a fact of life these days.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #12)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 07:17 PM

37. It is rather amazing how sometimes a topic will

Just sink like a stone, over and over again. And then one day, maybe ten days later? and the idea takes traction. Who knows all the in's and out's of why this is?

But of course, better late than never. And hopefully we can still wake up our fellow Americans and have this stopped before it is too late.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #12)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 09:42 AM

71. What happened to "We the people" and "I'll put on my comfortable shoes"?...

I guess I'm not supposed to remember that. Ah, well!

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Response to n2doc (Reply #5)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 09:38 AM

70. Yep. It's kind of a pattern, isn't it....

ETA> It's already started. Keep reading.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #5)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 10:50 AM

79. In the "hippy days," there was talk about the evils of sovereignty...

How it promoted wars, imperialism, might-makes-right, and the usual bugbears.

Well, we're seeing the demise of sovereignty, now, and I bet it wasn't what folks intended. Sovereignty is not limited to states. It extends to all of us.

I find curious how sovereignty which was such a bulwark of conservative philosophy has been abandoned so completely by the far right. But make no mistake about it: The wars WILL continue as the corporate state evolves into its own united "nations," Inc., Ltd., LLC, and militaries are used as vast enforcement arms.

Corporate hegemonists have no use for democracy, and they are banking heavily on the increasing reality that the goverened don't either.

We are so-o-o-o connected, even as we run break neck from community.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #5)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 11:41 AM

85. heh.

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:31 PM

11. K & R n/t

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:37 PM

13. Bummer

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:39 PM

14. Write Letters and Make Calls

 



All here on DU that oppose the TPP should start writing letters to their Congressmen and Senators now.

Also post this on your facebook page, tell your friends. Use whatever resources you have to spread the word.

Heck, start calling newspapers and ask them to cover this.

I will write letters to my reps here in MA to try to expose this.

I will also write in something to whithouse.gov saying that the word is getting out on how this will hand Federal and State and local authority over to the corporations.

The good news here is that we have time to act and uncover this refuse. But only if we act.

I am going to post this link to my church and town parents email groups right now.



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Response to Cedric the Clam (Reply #14)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:42 PM

27. Doesn't the WH.Gov. site have a Petition that folks can sign

to get Obama's attention? I think it requires over 100,000 signatures but many DU'ers who were ground active with OFA might be willing to organize something about TPP to ask Obama to reveal what's being negotiated. To keep we who voted for him informed about it.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #27)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:24 PM

44. HERE IT IS! PETITIONS WHITE HOUSE.GOV...to the PRESIDENT!

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/

This is what he will listen to. Check it out! Our Congress is for some part Bought and Paid for...and those of us in Red States who've been sending them E-Mails, Signing Petitions get "Form Letters" back to us.

So don't give up on them...but, also make sure you send the White House your message since President Obama ASKED US to DO THIS:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/

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Response to Cedric the Clam (Reply #14)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 02:12 AM

64. No, take to the streets. In masses.

Those who we would write and call do not care what we have to say. They're the ones pushing this, or else they would have told us about it.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #64)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 11:24 AM

83. When we take to the streets we need to be fighting for COMPLETE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!

If we had truly Representative government, we would not be having this discussion. Our politicians do not answer to us, thy answer to the $!!!

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:57 PM

15. The more I see of the future the more I am glad I never had children....

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:41 PM

25. Same here -

but I am always shocked by so many who did have children and just don't care what kind of world they are leaving them to live in.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #25)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 11:30 AM

84. This:

I am always shocked by so many who did have children and just don't care what kind of world they are leaving them to live in.


Years ago I caught a segment of Dennis Miller on HBO. He said that he didn't concern himself with climate change, because why did he care if his great-great-great-grandchild had to deal with a world that was 2 degrees warmer, he would never know the kid, anyway. In terms of the TPP, it's not going to be your great-great-great-grandchildren that will deal with it, it will be your children.

Yesterday I asked my husband if humanity is suffering from a collective, "OMG, we are seriously fucked!" mentality & we are just driving ourselves over the cliff as fast as we can.



The evidence is there. We are changing the nature of our environment to the degree it is going to have a huge impact on all of us, but we do nothing. Corporations can't see past next quarter's earnings, governments & politicians are bought off, corruption is rampant in all our major institutions & nobody is talking about it.

Time to log off & take a break!

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #84)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 11:59 AM

87. good people need to have children to fight the good fight

 

otherwise, the selfish idiots will kill us all.

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:42 PM

26. +1

 

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 06:55 PM

35. I've had the same thought countless times.

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 11:38 PM

56. I feel that way as well nt

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #15)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 10:09 AM

74. +1

Another thing I'm glad for every single day is my life being half over, it's sad watching what's happening, knowing the sickest earth-raping is going to get worse and worse, watching everyone around me keep making little babies. The kids being made now will be a lot tougher than me though.

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:00 PM

16. Australia doesn't like the" intl corps having power over the laws of nations and states" clause

As a worst-case scenario, investor–state arbitration gives transnational corporations powers to trump the sovereign powers of nations and states and hold back policy developments such as those relating to sustainability and clean energy. The Australian government and its negotiators have stated that they will not be agreeing to investor state dispute settlement provisions that give greater rights to foreign than domestic businesses in the TPP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Strategic_Economic_Partnership



Australian Trade Minister Craig Emerson has argued that the Trans-Pacific Partnership is the first step toward a regional free trade agreement in the Asia-Pacific. But Australia, it appears, has refused to submit to the “investor-state” tribunal system in the negotiations over the agreement.

The leak of the investment chapter, and the San Diego talks this week, have sparked a wider debate about the agreement. There’s much concern in the Australian and the New Zealand parliaments about the anti-democratic nature of the treaty – with its secrecy, absence of regulatory scrutiny, and lack of wider public participation. There’s also some anxiety about the impact of the agreement on investment, public health, industrial relations, the environment, and intellectual property.
http://theconversation.edu.au/a-dangerous-investment-australia-new-zealand-and-the-trans-pacific-partnership-7440

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Response to Cedric the Clam (Reply #17)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:40 PM

23. Thanks, I signed

we need some good draft of a letter to send to our reps and senators. I know just enough about this to know it is not good for us, but not enough, I fear, to talk intelligently about it (at least for me).

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Response to Cedric the Clam (Reply #17)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:53 PM

29. Thanks. Just signed and posted to Facebook.

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Response to Cedric the Clam (Reply #17)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 07:30 PM

40. signed too! Thanks.

kick

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Response to Cedric the Clam (Reply #17)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 09:16 AM

67. This link is to a moveon petition, which is fine, but it is not whitehouse.gov

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Response to Maineman (Reply #67)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 01:00 PM

93. Indeed! Will someone create a whitehouse.gov petition?

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:23 PM

19. kr for an excellent post

 

It's like "You aren't stupid enough to believe a politician, are you?"

Then the wink and grin...

The 1%ers must laugh their asses off at the proles when the tv cameras go dark. Sadly, most of the proles deserve it. I'll never forgive or forget the times I was called a "Racist" or a "Teabagger" for trying to resist being forced to buy corporate insurance. NEVER!

So, now that the R's and the D's are both in the Corporate tank, anyone at all that objects to the next bamboozle will be a danger to society or....a "TERRORIST" and can be taken out without a trial.

Still the people cheer! It's a freaking nightmare.

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:30 PM

20. Excellent summary of the TPP. Read this and consider how deep the implications run.

The scope of this agreement runs far beyond trade and seems to turn large corporations and their stakeholders into transnational citizens whose wishes can supersede local law.

What could possibly go wrong? I know the "grand bargain" is getting quite a bit of attention now on this board but TPP is even scarier IMO. We need to stay on this issue.

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:33 PM

22. Even some cpac loonies agree, even if they have different reasons

2. The UN Will Take One-Quarter Of America’s Land. The American Jobs Alliance, a conservative business advocacy group, is handing out hundreds of fliers warning attendees of the dangers posed by the Trans-Pacific Partnership, an undeniably controversial free trade agreement that the United States is currently negotiating with a handful of South Pacific nations. Instead of reasoned criticism however, AJA sounds the alarm over Sharia Law, and claims that the Partnership “cedes 1/4 of U.S. to Foreign Control. A quarter of the entire U.S. land area will fall under UN court jurisdiction.”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/03/16/1720361/marxists-infiltrated-the-catholic-church-and-four-other-crazy-things-we-learned-at-cpac/

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Response to beyurslf (Reply #22)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:44 PM

28. It used to be an issue the RW would get worked up about...

but, if they aren't complaining about the TPP as much as they hate Obama then it might mean there's something IN IT for THEM to profit from. It might be that the TPP is very Bi-Partisan and that's why Fox News isn't all over it night and day...that it's being done in secret.

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:41 PM

24. kr

 

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:54 PM

30. K&R

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 05:57 PM

31. New World Order

This train has been coming down the tracks since we discovered China!

If it can be made democratic... IOW, if the laws can be made by the people via the internet there just might be enough people to win the war.

Didn't Star Trek have some kind of NWO? Is it in the future, or here now?

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 06:16 PM

32. I always thought

JFK was talking about Communism in this speech;






Now I'm not so sure. Maybe it was a warning.

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Response to secondvariety (Reply #32)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 06:27 PM

34. Nice.......

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Response to secondvariety (Reply #32)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 12:04 AM

58. Great OP. Great video. rec

Thank you both.

Shame on pols and their supporters that lackey to the fascist corpo-meisters.

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Response to secondvariety (Reply #32)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 09:58 AM

73. NOT Communism, IMO. If you listen carefully...

"...a highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic <Wall Street?>, scientific and political operations..."

The danger was/is right here on our own shores. Communism was simply the enemy du jour

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 07:06 PM

36. The fast track to Corporate Fascism and Feudalism ... just heinous

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 07:19 PM

38. The real question is why are we taking it? The second question is are we sure this is true?

If it is then as I have said many times we out number them by a factor of billions we do not have to take the rich boys shit we could stand up for a change and do something about it. After all this should be a plan that even the brain dead tea party types in congress would be against! If nothing else fire them up about how we are losing out freedom as a nation hell blame it on the UN and the One World Order. After all that what this is and its only the beginning if this fly's there greed will increase even more until we do in fact become nothing more than just another resources to exploit to them we are close to that now. When that happens you can kiss your ass good by the first time you get sick or do anything they don't like. Me I be among the first put in the camps or what ever else they have planed since I could never keep my mouth shut!

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Response to Pakid (Reply #38)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 07:33 PM

41. Of course it is true. Major networks present information on it

At least once a month. Always it is framed as something that will help the nation out, in the same wonderful way that NAFTA did.

But as to why are we taking it? We are taking it because we are totally unqualified in this new oligarchy to really be able to do anything at all about any of this. Most of us Baby Boomers are watching as our nation descends into a nightmare, but what Talking Head is speaking out about any of this? Rachel Maddow has become a voice only there to mention how silly the Republicans are - and occasionally if we are lucky she might mention in passing some story that the Elite would rather she kept buried under the carpet.

And the political system is a binary one - you have to vote either Dem or Republican in order to see your candidates have shot at winning. Many Democrats here don't understand exactly who some of their Republican neighbors are. But right now there are many Republicans who are trying to stop the TSA in its continued power grabs. Who are trying to return our civil rights. I hear again and again the meme that the only thing the RW cares about is keeping their guns - but that is like saying the only thing a Democrat cares about is the right for a woman to have an abortion.

I think that those of us who do want our civil rights returned need to figure out how to make these centrally important issues go beyond political party divisions. Hard work, but necessary if we want to stay alive and out of the camps.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #41)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:25 PM

45. Well said, and so important.

The oligarchs depend on our remaining divided for their agenda to succeed. They want us more horrified and revolted by the idea of uniting with a Republican on anything, than we are committed to joining with every single fellow citizen we can find to stop their predatory agenda.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #41)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:35 PM

46. Bipartisan

 

This is indeed a bipartisan issue. States rights will be lost. The sovereignty of the United States will be lost.

The trick is to put that spin on it before the far right and corporate lackeys can spin it as a liberal idea or an idea that is good for the US. I guess that is already starting to happen, but not in force yet.

It is up to people like us to point out why this is bad for both the right and the left if you value the sovereignty of your state or your nation.

If Everyone on DU who agrees that the TPP is a very bad idea keeps bringing this topic up with their friends, their facebook buddies, their Twitter followers, their local representatives, their community email groups, etc etc we can do something.

I have been posting in all the venues that I have acces to all day, and started the petition (link above).

I wrote in to alternet.org about it.

Still to do: write my local representatives and Senators, write in to Whitehouse.gov

Find the "contact us" link on Whitehouse.org

How does one start a petition at whitehouse.org? I started one at signon.org (link in post above). Can somebody find out how to start one at whitehouse.gov and give us the link here?

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Response to Cedric the Clam (Reply #46)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 01:25 PM

95. Here is the link...instructions are there for posting a new petition

that the Administration will consider. Needs over 100,000 supporters though..the new rules.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/

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Response to KoKo (Reply #95)

Mon Mar 18, 2013, 04:42 PM

103. Thanks for that link, Koko. n/t

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 07:27 PM

39. If it hurts the middle class, the GOP and Conservadems

will be all over it, like white on rice.

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Response to NorthCarolina (Reply #39)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:10 PM

42. It will hurt ALL of us, and Obama, a Democrat, is pushing it right now.

Yes, the support for it among our purchased politicians will be bipartisan. That is why fierce opposition to it among the people needs to be bipartisan, too. We need *everyone* to scream bloody murder about this, because it is predatory.

At a certain point we have to stop the knee-jerk partisan response of attacking only the other team instead of focusing on the oligarchs and their purchased politicians in BOTH parties who are impoverishing ALL of us.

This is how they keep us divided. This is how they keep the agenda going, by making sure we hate each other so much that we cannot conceive of uniting to stop them.

The corporate assaults are deadly serious now, and they are bipartisan. We need to be uniting now across the country, Democrats, Republicans...ALL OF US...to stop what they are doing to ALL of us.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #42)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 09:31 PM

48. ^^^ <----nailed

 


Kick for truth

The work you do is hard, but like Bob Marley (and others of course) said-
the harder the battle the sweeter the victory

Thanks for posting what you do!

We live in interesting times...don't we

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Response to green for victory (Reply #48)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 10:37 PM

50. "Interesting"

is an interesting word for it.

Thank you, too.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #42)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 11:04 PM

54. Blasphomy!

Is what I've seen in other threads.

I got pummelled in another thread for saying Obama turned me into an Independent. Saying only because the Dem's have moved to the right. I can't sign off on the stuff Obama's pulled recently and in the past. If that's a Democrat well then I'm way the left of that. Seems Senator Sanders is too for being an Independent.

Anyway, it's always seems to be political theater in the end, crazy political theater cause we keep expecting a different ending.

-p

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #42)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 08:58 AM

66. Spot on analysis

Thanks!

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:12 PM

43. K & R

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 09:18 PM

47. k&r

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 09:43 PM

49. Won't Listen

I have been posting on Facebook about TPP but nobody wants to listen, maybe they will start now.

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Response to mtasselin (Reply #49)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 10:55 PM

53. +1000000000 We need massive face-to-face and internet education going on.

Aimed at all Americans, regardless of party, because this monster is going to target us all.

The PTB don't care much about quiet protests. Their goal is not to represent us once they figure out what we think, but to find a way to pass this thing with as little blowback as possible.

Their greatest fear is the possibility that that nation will become outraged and unite against their agenda. That is why they are doing all of this secretly.

So we need to educate people and create that blowback.

So glad you are doing this on Facebook! Internet is critically important. Youtube also needs to be flooded with warnings on this.

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Response to mtasselin (Reply #49)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 12:03 PM

88. Me too, but I think it's such a dry topic, it's hard to get people interested in it

 

I do like this video on it though:

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)


Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 10:52 PM

52. An "Act" vs. a "Plan"??? Where does this terminology come from?

Do you mean a treaty vs. legislation? A treaty requires ratification by two thirds of the Senate only. Legislation requires a simple majority of of both houses and the president's signature.

Getting a simple majority in both houses might be a lot harder than a super majority of the Senate, depending on the circumstances.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Clause

In the United States, the term "treaty" is used in a more restricted legal sense than in international law. U.S. law distinguishes what it calls treaties from congressional-executive agreements and sole-executive agreements. All three classes are considered treaties under international law; they are distinct only from the perspective of internal United States law. The distinctions are primarily concerning their method of ratification: by two-thirds of the Senate, by normal legislative process, or by the President alone, respectively. The Treaty Clause also has a somewhat different impact on domestic U.S. law, as compared to congressional-executive agreements and sole executive agreements.

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 11:32 PM

55. Any chance this train wreck can be avoided?

Obviously the Pukes will love this and we can only hope some how the Senate will find the balls to stop it.

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Response to yourout (Reply #55)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 09:31 AM

68. Trying

 



There is a link to a petition in this thread.

Also, I would plead with you not to make this a liberal or conservative issue.

Republican citizens will not like this at all. It would tie the hands of their own local governments.

Conservative websites are coming out against this (for crazy reasons) but they are against it.

Tha majority of lawmakers on both sides will be in favor of it, because, hey, they are in favor of anything destructive these days.
Obama is pushing hard for it.

Write to your congresspersons and Senators.

Put this on your facebook page.

This is our Nazi moment. They are coming to drag us out onto the streets and beat us (figuratively, or maybe not). What will we do?


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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 11:46 PM

57. This is the BIG one. An economic tsunami.

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #57)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 10:15 AM

75. +1000

Supreme Reaming on the near horizon.

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 12:30 AM

59. +1000

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 12:40 AM

61. "I have a cunning plan, My Lord."

"As cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University?"

-not to disparage foxes (or adders), but I reckon this 'plan' is a bit of a coop raid.

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 01:07 AM

62. This is so discouraging. Down and down and down we go. n/t

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 01:24 AM

63. K&R

And thank you, truedelphi, for your post...as horrifying and depressing as it is.

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 09:45 AM

72. truthout and common dreams?? LOL might have well linked to the National Enquirer


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Response to RB TexLa (Reply #72)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 10:22 AM

77. Yeah. All they've ever done was tell the truth.

What news sources do you rely upon, RB TexLa?

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Response to Octafish (Reply #77)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 11:04 AM

81. The Council on Foreign Relations has had some good pieces on the TPP

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Response to RB TexLa (Reply #81)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 02:13 PM

97. I guess the millionaires and billionaires that control them DO have some good pieces.

They make out like bandits on these free trade deals that have shipped millions of jobs out of the country.

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 10:17 AM

76. I, as an American

citizen cannot allow anything like this to happen. Nobody in this country will allow this to happen if you want this country to be the home of the brave and the land of the free. This is an assault on every redblooded American and it can't be allowed to happen. This is what our forefathers warned us about.

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 10:36 AM

78. When top ranking CEOs disappear myseriously

they will get the message. This is big boy stuff and needs big boy remedy. When your backed into a corner you better do something, whatever it takes to save yourself. You can't vote yourself out of some things especially if who you vote for is the enemy. We are in a corner and our biggest danger are our elected officials who are supposed to protect us??
I oppose violence and I believe this is a violent act against humanity. NO MORE PRISONS.

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 10:56 AM

80. Your sources are a bit much...as is your title.

 

Do you have more mainstream sources or are they supposed to be in on the "plot"?

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Response to dkf (Reply #80)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 12:05 PM

89. I think he/she was trying to get peoples' attention with the title

 

but what the heck is wrong with DemocracyNow and Fas.org?
Even Truthout is pretty good, I think.

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Response to NoMoreWarNow (Reply #89)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 12:10 PM

90. What's wrong with the nyt or wapo?

 

Or BBC? What is posted seems too tin foil hat as I read it.

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Response to dkf (Reply #90)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 01:31 PM

96. Seriously?

 

because the mainstream media has done so much for us already and they cover everything in a perfectly honest way?

There are real conspiracies, and this sounds very real to me.

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 11:58 AM

86. I thought Republicans were so big on national sovereignty-- shouldn't they be against this?

 

Are they totally in bed with multi-national corps now???

Anyone who supports the TPP is a traitor, seems to me.

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Response to NoMoreWarNow (Reply #86)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 12:18 PM

91. Hah ... they'll support this because their corporate masters tell them to

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 12:30 PM

92. Thanks for posting. (nt)

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 01:23 PM

94. If it isn't a treaty

requiring a 2/3 vote of the Senate, then it cannot be considered a permanent arrangement and can be abrogated at will by any of the signatories. This agreement needs to die in Congress. The Democratic Party can do that if it defies the President. We may even get lucky and the Republicans will shoot it down because it's associated with Obama.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #94)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 08:10 PM

99. Uh, you have heard of NAFTA, right?

The "TA" stands for Trade "Agreement." It's not a treaty or an "Act" but a trade agreement.

I agree with what you are saying, but once a policy is in effect, it is hard to wrest it back out of the clinging arms of the Gollums who are saying "My Precious. My Precious," so loudly that nay efforts to get anywhere are drowned out. I sure wish we had a Bilbo or Frodo on our side in Congress somewhere.

Just five years back, we had this ultra serious young man from the Illinois Senate who stated that if elected to the Oval Office, he'd be all about smashing NAFTA. Now he is one of the major political leaders behind the TPP!

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #99)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 09:01 PM

100. being against NAFTA at the time was very uncool. Troglodyte, Bircher, Flat Earther- the insults were

 

almost as bad as the insults thrown at those against the forced purchase of corporate insurance without a public option. That brought out the big guns: Racist, Pro Death- etc. It's surreal, but it's progressive alright. Progressively outrageous.

When some of us asked what the people that actually manufacture things, that actually do "work" would do when there's no WORK, we were told that they could find jobs in the financial sector, or they could serve McDonalds burgers. "We run the world" we were told. Get busy and Sell Some Insurance Already, Fool!

Just five years back, we had this ultra serious young man from the Illinois Senate who stated that if elected to the Oval Office, he'd be all about smashing NAFTA. Now he is one of the major political leaders behind the TPP!


What if almost everything we've been told has been a lie? Stay tuned...

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Response to green for victory (Reply #100)

Mon Mar 18, 2013, 07:25 PM

105. Yes, but legally

the status quo has built its house upon a foundation of legal sand. Bush and Obama have been able to push the corporate agenda because both parties and their financiers have decided that the Constitution is nothing more than a piece if paper i.e. they are criminals and traitors. Actually, most elected members of the federal government should probably be tried for treason. There's sure a lot of work to do.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #99)

Mon Mar 18, 2013, 07:19 PM

104. Yes, of course

your are correct, but the fact remains that these "agreements" are not legally binding upon the US government. After GW Bush unilaterally withdrew from the ABM treaty, which was constitutionally binding, the precedent was established that a President does not even require the consent of Congress to abrogate a treaty, the highest law of the land. With that precedent either Congress or the President can withdraw from a trade agreement. Bush gave six months notice before canning the ABM treaty. Abrogating a mere trade agreement shouldn't be worth more than two weeks notice.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #104)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 04:27 PM

108. So who among us can get someone to get Obama to

Can NAFTA ? And to quit peddling the TPP ?

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #108)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 06:06 PM

109. Only as many of us

as attended his first inauguration and who are willing to stay on until the national mall is a sea of mud and blood if necessary. Absolutely nothing less will work anymore. What a tragedy.

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 03:39 PM

98. This scares the hell out of me.

Has it had any real press at all? Has Rachel or Ed or Lawrence had anything to say?

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 10:36 PM

101. Meanwhile off in the snowy roads of Canada,

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Mon Mar 18, 2013, 03:36 PM

102. kick

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Response to truedelphi (Original post)

Mon Mar 18, 2013, 07:31 PM

106. That giant sucking sound you hear is jsut Ross Perot being alarmist.

Pay no attention.

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