Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:40 PM

MineralMan (71,382 posts)

The Steubenville gang rape case should demand a discussion

of what "consent" means with high-school aged boys all across the nation. From PE classes (where those still exist) and sports team practices to living rooms, "consent" needs to be clearly defined for boys. If it is not, they will take just about anything as consent, even the failure to say "no" for any reason. It can be discussed by moms or dads, teachers or religious leaders. But it must be discussed, defined, and made perfectly clear.

When it comes to sex, consent does not just mean someone giving in after wheedling and whining. It does not mean not vehemently protesting what is going on. It means something else.

In my opinion, consent for teenagers should not just be "assent," but enthusiastic and eager consent, in action, in voice, and in deed. It shouldn't be just not protesting too much after a long make-out session, when the boy finally wears a girl down and she gives up. It should not be, "Well, OK," or "I guess so..." spoken in a frustrated, tired voice.

It should be clear and unmistakable consent, made spontaneously, gladly and without pressure of any kind. Anything else is not consent. That's how my father defined it for me when I was 14 years old, sporting 10 inches of growth in height over the previous year, a suddenly deep voice that no longer broke at times, and a case of severe hormonal influence. That's what my father told me consent was, and that anything less was not really consent.

It's up to us adults to explain what consent is to our sons and other adolescents. They don't know. Their judgment is cloudy, and their hormones are overactive. We need to make it clear to them. We need to make it unmistakable that lack of real consent means rape.

Real consent. Genuine, happy, boisterous consent. Nothing else will do. Nothing else is acceptable.

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79 replies	Author	Time	Post
The Steubenville gang rape case should demand a discussion (Original post)	MineralMan	Mar 2013	OP
I don't understand how you could do anything without consent	Drale	Mar 2013	#1
Yes. I followed my father's advice to the letter.	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#2
"Genuine, happy, boisterous consent"	arely staircase	Mar 2013	#3
This message was hidden by jury decision.	Hulk Smash	Mar 2013	#4
.	Guy Whitey Corngood	Mar 2013	#6
LOL	La Lioness Priyanka	Mar 2013	#7
Because it is the boys who do the raping, you see.	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#8
Because they are the ones with the penis?	Rex	Mar 2013	#18
Message auto-removed	Hulk Smash	Mar 2013	#43
Dream on. High school kids will always have sex	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#46
Who said anything about abstaining? We are talking about Rape Culture.	Rex	Mar 2013	#48
See this link as to what this poster understands	geek tragedy	Mar 2013	#53
So Hulk won't support Hillary because she voted for the IWR?	Rex	Mar 2013	#59
Not a specific sexist, more like a Cave dweller.	geek tragedy	Mar 2013	#61
Ya my eyes rolled so far back into my head	Rex	Mar 2013	#66
OFFS. If this isn't trolling, I don't know what is. nt	geek tragedy	Mar 2013	#50
Having sex at age 16	fitman	Mar 2013	#60
I WOULD FALL FROM THE HEAVENS FOR YOU FITMAN MY SWEET	Skittles	Mar 2013	#63
When I read his post I thought of you, not the candy. I spend waaaay too much time here. nt	msanthrope	Mar 2013	#70
So I guess our imaginary relationship means nothing to you then. GOOD DAY MA'AM! :-P	Guy Whitey Corngood	Mar 2013	#72
oh stop being such a baby	Skittles	Mar 2013	#73
LOL	bettyellen	Mar 2013	#75
HE NEEDS TO GIVE ME A HEADS UP NEXT TIME!	Skittles	Mar 2013	#76
You will have to fight my wife	fitman	Mar 2013	#79
What about adults?	BainsBane	Mar 2013	#67
Oh MIRT . . . look over here. nt	geek tragedy	Mar 2013	#25
no no geek look over THERE!!!	Skittles	Mar 2013	#64
I have to say	Skittles	Mar 2013	#62
Hey, it works for Texas and Mississippi.	geek tragedy	Mar 2013	#68
Consent, yes. No consent, no.	Rex	Mar 2013	#5
Apparently the definition isn't as solid as it should be for some.	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#9
I think they knew exactly what they were doing and didn't care	Rex	Mar 2013	#12
Not caring means that you ignore everything	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#14
True, nothing but predators at that point.	Rex	Mar 2013	#17
Absolutely. The "defendants" in the Steubenville case	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#19
Same here, if they do get away with it and the jury sides with them	Rex	Mar 2013	#22
they were enabled to escape the consequences	BainsBane	Mar 2013	#21
Yup. Inaction on the part of others contributed to this.	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#27
That is where education can be most useful	BainsBane	Mar 2013	#33
I agree. I saw that at work	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#40
Yes, Rape Culture is alive and well in Steubenville.	Rex	Mar 2013	#28
It really is a power thing	siligut	Mar 2013	#10
Sex shouldn't be a power thing at all.	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#11
I agree. But power is one of those basic drives	siligut	Mar 2013	#13
No, I don't think it is one of those basic drives.	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#16
Only one theory of human behavior	siligut	Mar 2013	#29
I take an opposite position. For me, empathy and consideration	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#31
I am the same way	siligut	Mar 2013	#36
yet some	BainsBane	Mar 2013	#26
Women should not have to take any action to avoid rape.	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#30
Some who lack power in their daily lives	BainsBane	Mar 2013	#49
I'm sure that's true. Sad, but sure.	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#51
I agree, it is a power trip.	Rex	Mar 2013	#15
Domination is fetishized. In porn and in more ubiquitous examples of rape culture	redqueen	Mar 2013	#35
And this gang behavior	siligut	Mar 2013	#38
I would like to believe that.	redqueen	Mar 2013	#41
The rape was a team effort and it will be a team effort to get these kids off	siligut	Mar 2013	#52
Yeah, I see what you mean.	redqueen	Mar 2013	#58
I'm not sure that's true. In some cases, what happened was doubtless	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#47
Have other girls come forward?	siligut	Mar 2013	#55
Worth reading:	redqueen	Mar 2013	#23
One question what does she mean by 'cis guy'?	Rex	Mar 2013	#34
A male who has no obvious, so-called 'feminine' traits, I would say.	redqueen	Mar 2013	#37
Thanks.	Rex	Mar 2013	#42
It's like she read my mind.	MadrasT	Mar 2013	#74
Hands down, the best analysis of consent I've ever read:	redqueen	Mar 2013	#20
That's very good, indeed.	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#24
And to explain/convey it to other men.	geek tragedy	Mar 2013	#32
lesson learned today from redqueen and her posse in another thread	arely staircase	Mar 2013	#39
lolwut... I'm not a leader!	redqueen	Mar 2013	#44
Actually you ARE a leader	Demo_Chris	Mar 2013	#56
yes you are	arely staircase	Mar 2013	#57
I don't think Red Queen is saying risk prevention is not important	BainsBane	Mar 2013	#65
big props for admitting to learn something from someone you've been	geek tragedy	Mar 2013	#45
I am one of those who feel...	NCTraveler	Mar 2013	#54
And girls too, need to hear this clearly communicated so they understand	bettyellen	Mar 2013	#69
This message was self-deleted by its author	seabeyond	Mar 2013	#71
It means	rrneck	Mar 2013	#77
Exactly!	MineralMan	Mar 2013	#78

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:43 PM

Drale (7,920 posts)

1. I don't understand how you could do anything without consent

Hell, I've never even kissed a girl for the first time without making sure it was ok with her first. Its not the most romantic first kiss but its far better to be safe than sorry.

The Steubenville gang rape case should demand a discussion

1. I don't understand how you could do anything without consent

2. Yes. I followed my father's advice to the letter.

3. "Genuine, happy, boisterous consent"

6. .

7. LOL

8. Because it is the boys who do the raping, you see.

18. Because they are the ones with the penis?

46. Dream on. High school kids will always have sex

48. Who said anything about abstaining? We are talking about Rape Culture.

53. See this link as to what this poster understands

59. So Hulk won't support Hillary because she voted for the IWR?

61. Not a specific sexist, more like a Cave dweller.

66. Ya my eyes rolled so far back into my head

50. OFFS. If this isn't trolling, I don't know what is. nt

60. Having sex at age 16

63. I WOULD FALL FROM THE HEAVENS FOR YOU FITMAN MY SWEET

70. When I read his post I thought of you, not the candy. I spend waaaay too much time here. nt

72. So I guess our imaginary relationship means nothing to you then. GOOD DAY MA'AM! :-P

73. oh stop being such a baby

75. LOL

76. HE NEEDS TO GIVE ME A HEADS UP NEXT TIME!

79. You will have to fight my wife

67. What about adults?

25. Oh MIRT . . . look over here. nt

64. no no geek look over THERE!!!

62. I have to say

68. Hey, it works for Texas and Mississippi.

5. Consent, yes. No consent, no.

9. Apparently the definition isn't as solid as it should be for some.

12. I think they knew exactly what they were doing and didn't care

14. Not caring means that you ignore everything

17. True, nothing but predators at that point.

19. Absolutely. The "defendants" in the Steubenville case

22. Same here, if they do get away with it and the jury sides with them

21. they were enabled to escape the consequences

27. Yup. Inaction on the part of others contributed to this.

33. That is where education can be most useful

40. I agree. I saw that at work

28. Yes, Rape Culture is alive and well in Steubenville.

10. It really is a power thing

11. Sex shouldn't be a power thing at all.

13. I agree. But power is one of those basic drives

16. No, I don't think it is one of those basic drives.

29. Only one theory of human behavior

31. I take an opposite position. For me, empathy and consideration

36. I am the same way

26. yet some

30. Women should not have to take any action to avoid rape.

49. Some who lack power in their daily lives

51. I'm sure that's true. Sad, but sure.

15. I agree, it is a power trip.

35. Domination is fetishized. In porn and in more ubiquitous examples of rape culture

38. And this gang behavior

41. I would like to believe that.

52. The rape was a team effort and it will be a team effort to get these kids off

58. Yeah, I see what you mean.

47. I'm not sure that's true. In some cases, what happened was doubtless

55. Have other girls come forward?

23. Worth reading:

34. One question what does she mean by 'cis guy'?

37. A male who has no obvious, so-called 'feminine' traits, I would say.

42. Thanks.

74. It's like she read my mind.

20. Hands down, the best analysis of consent I've ever read:

24. That's very good, indeed.

32. And to explain/convey it to other men.

39. lesson learned today from redqueen and her posse in another thread

44. lolwut... I'm not a leader!

56. Actually you ARE a leader

57. yes you are

65. I don't think Red Queen is saying risk prevention is not important

45. big props for admitting to learn something from someone you've been

54. I am one of those who feel...

69. And girls too, need to hear this clearly communicated so they understand

77. It means

78. Exactly!