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Sat Mar 9, 2013, 07:20 AM

Here's what I would have said to Hugo Chavez, had I seen him at the last

(this is the last thing I'll post of this nature, because the man is now dead and gone).

Thank you, President Chavez.

You were not a living saint, but who is?

(besides which, most saints, when they were alive, were bloody annoying to everyone who knew them).

You made some choices I might not have made...but I wasn't running a country under siege and under external attack, so there's limits to what I can or should say about that...legitimate limits.

You gave a voice(the community councils and the democracy-from-below structure of your great party)to those who had had no voice...and that is the reason you were denouced by so many of those who call themselves not only conservatives and centrists but also so many who call themselves "liberals".

You used the wealth generated by the resources of your country, not to buy mansions, expensive cars, expensive food, expensive wines, expensive sexual partners and everything else that could be turned into something to be sold for top dollar(as those who denounced and still denounce you think all wealth SHOULD rightfully be used, by the lucky few), but to provide for the people of your country food, shelter, clothing, education for all, dignity for the living, care for the sick and a gentle passage out of this world for those whose time had come. For this, the groups I listed in the last sentence of the previous paragraph will NEVER forgive you-they will do all they can to destroy what you built, because what you built was a foundation of the truth...the truth that those with great quantities of money(gathered by whatever means)are not the ONLY people who deserve to live.

You made it possible for the Rainbow majority of people, in your country and in many others, to begin saving themselves from the misery of their own conditions and to hold once again in their souls the vision of a world far different and far better than the one most of us are trapped in now...and that is an even greater reason why you will die reviled in most of the great centers of wealth, media, and political and military power-because, where they live by destroying dreams of anything other than accumulating possessions, you showed that the many could live for the dream of a life where all TRULY live, not just survive.

For all of that, for your courage, for your strength in times of personal pain, for your insistence on carrying on when under attack from those who would destroy you and your country, thanks. Your body will soon be at rest, but you will live on.

You will live on in the hearts, the minds, the joy, the rage, the strength, and the will of the poorest, hungriest, most beautiful children of the Earth...the children your enemies want to kill in their youth, emotionally if not physically...the children who will, if given the chance, if not crushed by the hatred and fears of the worst of their elders, make the world we need...the children on whose future life depends.

Thank you for showing those children the path they will now take-the path to a world where they can live, not just struggle to live until they die

Hasta La Victoria Siempre. Be at peace.

83 replies, 4461 views

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Reply Here's what I would have said to Hugo Chavez, had I seen him at the last (Original post)
Ken Burch Mar 2013 OP
mithnanthy Mar 2013 #1
dipsydoodle Mar 2013 #2
BlueCaliDem Mar 2013 #3
SF Dockworker Mar 2013 #4
Ken Burch Mar 2013 #13
Catherina Mar 2013 #15
Cal Carpenter Mar 2013 #37
backscatter712 Mar 2013 #41
Catherina Mar 2013 #50
bvar22 Mar 2013 #43
Catherina Mar 2013 #47
sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #58
Catherina Mar 2013 #63
sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #65
Catherina Mar 2013 #68
Flatulo Mar 2013 #69
Ken Burch Mar 2013 #71
Flatulo Mar 2013 #72
sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #77
Flatulo Mar 2013 #78
sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #79
Flatulo Mar 2013 #81
FrodosPet Mar 2013 #80
sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #83
sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #76
riverbendviewgal Mar 2013 #19
left is right Mar 2013 #36
SF Dockworker Mar 2013 #5
Ken Burch Mar 2013 #6
onlyadream Mar 2013 #7
Ken Burch Mar 2013 #8
Catherina Mar 2013 #17
UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #23
Puglover Mar 2013 #25
Starry Messenger Mar 2013 #34
lunatica Mar 2013 #49
Brother Buzz Mar 2013 #38
Ken Burch Mar 2013 #51
Catherina Mar 2013 #16
PuraVidaDreamin Mar 2013 #9
FiggyJay Mar 2013 #10
Ken Burch Mar 2013 #12
RedstDem Mar 2013 #11
idwiyo Mar 2013 #14
Janecita Mar 2013 #27
idwiyo Mar 2013 #29
Janecita Mar 2013 #33
malaise Mar 2013 #18
TomClash Mar 2013 #20
Benton D Struckcheon Mar 2013 #22
Catherina Mar 2013 #28
Benton D Struckcheon Mar 2013 #31
Flatulo Mar 2013 #32
idwiyo Mar 2013 #35
Ken Burch Mar 2013 #55
idwiyo Mar 2013 #62
Flatulo Mar 2013 #73
Ken Burch Mar 2013 #74
sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #64
Catherina Mar 2013 #40
Benton D Struckcheon Mar 2013 #44
Catherina Mar 2013 #46
Ken Burch Mar 2013 #54
idwiyo Mar 2013 #60
Ken Burch Mar 2013 #53
Ken Burch Mar 2013 #57
idwiyo Mar 2013 #30
Ken Burch Mar 2013 #56
idwiyo Mar 2013 #59
1ProudAtheist Mar 2013 #21
Arctic Dave Mar 2013 #24
3auld6phart Mar 2013 #26
liberal from boston Mar 2013 #39
Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #42
bvar22 Mar 2013 #45
eridani Mar 2013 #75
lunatica Mar 2013 #48
99Forever Mar 2013 #52
sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #61
olddots Mar 2013 #66
Ken Burch Mar 2013 #67
Sekhmets Daughter Mar 2013 #70
Cleita Mar 2013 #82

Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 08:18 AM

1. Thank you for writing this....

Those who didn't understand Hugo Chavez's commitment to his people .....may learn something from your truthfully stated words. He was a hero to his country and to many others who did understand his message. Hasta La Victoria Siempre Hugo. I, for one will miss him.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 08:22 AM

2. As #1 above

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 08:29 AM

3. Thank you for this wonderful tribute to a good leader

who was unjustifiably demonized by the corporatists in our country.

and rec'd.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)


Response to SF Dockworker (Reply #4)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:11 AM

13. er...you spelled "which" wrong.

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Response to SF Dockworker (Reply #4)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:22 AM

15. What a crock of rightwing shit

This bullshit claim was manufactured for the the world by some obscure "thread management" LLC called the CJIA. It's a one man show run by some Anti-Chavez/Anti-Leftist freak whose LLC has exactly 107 twitter followers.

Most of those 107 followers are downright bizarre and the 112 people this Jerry Brewer/CJIA is following are downright vile. This speaks volumes about the kind of *information* you're peddling about Venezuela.

Eric Cantor?

Breitbart?

Chairman Republican National Committee?

GOP Majority Whip?

Condoleezza Rice?

Benjamin Netanyahu?

CapitolHillCubans?

TheBushCenter ?

FreedomWorks?

Rush Limbaugh?

Mike Huckabee?

Jeb Bush

NTARC?

Sean Hannity

Álvaro Uribe?

Paul Ryan?

Fmr Press Sec to George W. Bush?

Monica Crowley

Charles Krauthammer

Laura Ingraham?

Donald Rumsfeld?

Ann Coulter?

Roger Noriega?

Marco Rubio?

Rick Santorum?

Karl Rove?

Newt Gingrich?

And a bunch of Fox News, Fox News, Fox News, Fox News, Fox News, Fox News, Fox News?

https://twitter.com/cjiausa/following


SERIOUSLY, WTF dude!!!

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Response to Catherina (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 12:31 PM

37. Thanks, well done

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Response to Cal Carpenter (Reply #37)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 12:58 PM

41. /me collects a scalp...

Last edited Sat Mar 9, 2013, 01:37 PM - Edit history (1)

Yes, I was the alerter.

And well done, Catherina!

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Response to Cal Carpenter (Reply #37)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 02:41 PM

50. You're most welcome

These lies almost always have one obscure source. The the trash media, like the UK Daily Mail, peddle them as a question to a wider audience, the trash at places like FreeRepublic blesses it, and they go one from there with a few daring to bring it here . Gotta nip them in the bud.

The original lying swine, Jerry Brewer, starts with "had a net worth of $1 billion at the time of his death" then less than few hours later, the figure jumps to "Hugo Chavez Dead: Net Worth Of $2 Billion For Venezuela Dictator"

So pathetic.

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Response to Catherina (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 01:20 PM

43. Excellent Deconstruction.

Bookmarked so that I can cite it when these nauseating Talking Points are picked up and used by conservatives here at DU.

Well Done.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #43)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 02:26 PM

47. Thanks. There's a whole other thread about that

here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/11089520

but other than the usual Chavez haters and some guy who just signed up to reinforce them, it's not getting any traction.

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Response to Catherina (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:33 PM

58. Thanks, Catherina! I didn't see the hidden post but I can guess what it said. The

Chavez haters are predictable, as propagandists always are being there is never a thought in their heads they haven't either been paid to put there, or are too willfully ignorant not to accept without question.

Chavez was among the best leaders when it comes to taking care of the people in recent times. And no amount of propaganda can change those facts.

What sickens me most is the obvious bigotry from the Western Powers and their paid for propagandists when it comes South America, Africa and the ME.

The people of Venezuela know best what is good for them and over and over again they chose Chavez as their president in elections that WE should envy. To continue, despite their abject failure to do so with all their money and army of rabid Right Wing denigraters, to disparage the man chosen by the people of Venezuela is to disparage those people themselves. As if those poor, 'lesser' people don't know what is good for them. It's disgusting, really.

The arrogance of the Western Global Corps and their small army of paid propagandists is astounding, considering the total failure of the West to protect their own people. I probably used the wrong word, not FAILURE, their criminal and deliberate assault on their own people, here in the US and in Europe. They certainly are not in any position to criticize people who apparently do know what is right for THEIR country and proved it at the ballot box, despite the enormous efforts to stop them, over and over again.

It says a lot too that with all the money they spend attacking Chavez, if there was any basis for their garbage, they would have succeeded to some extent. It must be frustrating to have failed to even make a dent in the popularity of the man they tried so hard to destroy.

Looks like they need some new tactics, the world is well aware now of paid for propaganda when they see it.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #58)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:59 PM

63. You can see the same post here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11089520

These propagandists amuse me. Their racist attitude, that they know what's best for these brown people than the brown people do themselves, disgusts me.

I suppose it makes sense that the attacks will escalate, as they try to get their neoliberal Capriles in office, because Chavez' stature is only going to grow in Venezuela, Latin America and the rest of the people's world. The vultures' stature? Not so much.

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Response to Catherina (Reply #63)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 04:20 PM

65. Hillarious, for anyone in this country to comment on a President of any other

country making money, even if they did, when our own Government, from Presidents to Congress, totally enrich themselves while in office and aftwards. They USE their positions to make themselves and their families rich. Unbelievable isn't it?

Then there are our allies, the Saudis. Any articles around about how they have enriched themselves, the Bahrain Royal Family, our good friend the Dictator of Uzbekistan who we GIVE money to each year to our shame? Or how about those paragons of democracy in Kuwait?

If they want to talk about politicians getting rich, I have a list, starting right here in this country. I think in fact maybe that might be a good topic for a series of posts, exploring this phenomenon in the US and among our most beloved dictator allies.

Even if it was true, a billion dollars after 14 years in office?? Not at all impressive by OUR standards frankly.

How much is Cheney worth? And don't get me started on the Bush Family Fortune. The Clintons too have made out pretty well from their time in office.

It's funny to watch the mindless hypocrisy and the total lack of awareness of the fact that if you want to bring up politicians getting rich because of their time in office, they might want to think twice about raising that issue here.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #65)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 04:53 PM

68. It's definitely hilarious

but not a surprise.

My particular favorite is that Chavez lined students up and killed them, murdered thousands though no bodies can be produced, and even the coup participants were pardoned to live freely in Venezuela.

It's particularly telling who's throwing boulders at Chavez, clamoring for propaganda of the press whole ignoring the millions we kill around the world and which wealthy politicians are raking in huge profits from their spouses and relatives' arms sales.

Chavez was loved by the people and will always be loved by the people.

The thieves, neocons and neoliberals, not so much. Their hatred is just going to increase as the admiration for Chavez grows. And I'm going to enjoy every bleeding minute of it.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #65)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 06:54 PM

69. There is a difference, you know. No one here thinks of our politicians as saints. In fact,

they're widely considered to be 1%'ers, entitled brats, scoundrels. We expect the very worst behavior from them.

Hugo, on the other hand, is considered a saint by many here. I have never seen even the slightest criticism of him not be met by a barrage of defenders hurling every name in the book at anyone who dares to question his sanctity. Every single media organization in the world - every single one of them - is in on a massive conspiracy funded by The Powers That Be to discredit him. There is absolutely not a single credible source on the entire planet save Venezuealaanalysis.com. Literally every other organization on the planet - every one of them - is against Hugo, being paid off handsomely.

Anyone who questions Hugo is a right wing troll. A Freeper, a non-democrat who has no business posting on this board.

Is pretty comical, actually.

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Response to Flatulo (Reply #69)

Sun Mar 10, 2013, 01:59 AM

71. If you had actually read my OP, I started out by saying I DIDN'T think he was a saint.

I said he had flaws...but that he still did good. That isn't canonization.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #71)

Sun Mar 10, 2013, 06:27 AM

72. I did read your OP, and I did catch your disclaimer. My reply was to another poster, but it's

more of a general observation than an itemized list of grievances.

Like all socialist revolutions that came before and will come after, every stumbling block, setback or failure, however minor, is the fault of agents provocateur, the CIA, the trans-global corporate print/TV/radio conspiracy, the weather, or the good old Yanquis.

Every success, whether humble or grand, is the direct result of the brilliant leadership of el comandante.

I guess I'm just too old and cynical to get onboard with any type of hero worship. He was most likely a good and decent man who felt the pain of the poor and did what he could to steer a few fazools their way.

He did a lot of other things that, had, for example GWB tried, would have led to mass protests and people jumping off of cliffs up here. And 46% of his countrymen felt it was time for him to go. I guess they know better than we how things are on the ground there.

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Response to Flatulo (Reply #72)

Sun Mar 10, 2013, 11:24 AM

77. Where is this hero worship you keep talking about?

You say there is some difference between our obscenely wealthy elected officials and assuming there is any truth to it, Chavez because the 'left 'worships him' and I guess we don't have any hero worship here for our wealthy, political leaders. Reagan, eg, isn't a 'GOD' to half this country?

There is no hero worship on the left for Chavez, there is a reaction to the propaganda from the West for a leader of an oil producing country whose people used the democratic process to elect him, over and over again. The reaction you see is to the attempt to negate the right of the Venezuelan people to choose who want as their president, by the US Backed attempted Coup against yet another democratically elected leader because he intended to share his country's oil revenues with the people who own them.

How anyone on this board can jump from people condemning our interference with sovereign nations who have done nothing to us, to the right wing lies used to try to influence public opinion, to 'hero worship' is beyond me.

So straightening out lies that we KNOW can lead to illegal invasions, or coup d'etats especially in that region of the world considering our criminal support for the most brutal dictators, is now 'hero worship here on a democratic forum'?? Explain this please. I have never seen a Liberal Democrat engage in hero worship of any leader, here or anywhere else. They are generally way too intelligent not to understand that no human being is perfect. That is generally the purvue of the ignorant, far right, see Reagan again.

I think it's time we actually discussed these phrases people throw out there, and get to the bottom of what basis in reality they have.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #77)

Sun Mar 10, 2013, 01:00 PM

78. I'm afraid if you can't see it it's because of your own dissonance.

I really don't mean to offend you or any other posters, but it's quite clear to me that many here have lost their objectivity when it comes to Hugo. Their instinctive reaction is to rush to his defense in every single instance of even the slightest criticism of his regime. Every media organization on the planet except for venezuelaanalysis.com has been branded as an utterly unreliable, right-wing source for any critical reporting on the regime. Every Venezuelan ex-pat is a traitor and agent provocateur. This happens without fail and with the reliability one expects from a Swiss watch. I daresay a few posters are actually in love with the man.

I believe this worship comes from a deep desire to transform our own society into a model of Venezuelan governance, where a heroic leader-figure defeats the evil capitalists and distributes their wealth to the have-nots. It's sort of an anti-Randian utopian fantasy that only Hugo has brought off.

Find any post that criticizes the Chavez regime, and I can show you the usual suspects rushing to defend and discredit the critics. Without fail. They recycle the same talking points over and over, endlessly, as though they had just copy/pasted them from any of hundreds of other threads.

I've never seen this kind of reflexive zeal for any other world leader, even our own POTUS. In fact, the more committed leftists on this board seem, frankly, quite disappointed that Obama has governed from the center-left.

If there is any criticism of the Chavez regime, or the man himself, that has not been strongly countered by the usual Hugo-worshiping suspects, I'd love to see it.

Of course this is all just my own opinion. I'm just some random ass on the Internet and I certainly wouldn't get very worked up over what I think.

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Response to Flatulo (Reply #78)

Sun Mar 10, 2013, 01:21 PM

79. Mmm interesting expansion of the theory. At least you provide more detail for this

particular fantasy.

The first time I saw it was back in 2002 during the Bush coup in Venezuela. I was posting on a board filled with Bush supporters, and if anyone even said one positive thing about Venezuela or Chavez, they immediately launched into the 'worship' thing.

That was the first time actually that I had ever noticed so many people using the same words, the same phrases. It was before I knew that people actually got paid to disseminate 'talking points', something I never heard of at the time. I remember asking them why they did that, if they were part of some school or something. Since then I have read a lot about how they spread propaganda around. They don't have to pay more than a few people to start the ball rolling. Funny to see it again here on DU.

How do you feel about America's own obsessive deification of many of our Presidents? The worship of Reagan is remarkable, eg, and you risk being called unpatriotic if you even whisper any criticism of him at all, no matter how correct it may be.

Thanks for your comment. It always interests me when I see the Left being attacked and demonized, well attempts to do so I should say, with old phrases and words such as the ones you used.

Democrats understand the difference between correcting false information and worship I would have thought. Especially when there is good chance that the false information might lead to getting support for yet another disastrous adventure by our country into yet another oil producing country.



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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #79)

Sun Mar 10, 2013, 04:51 PM

81. Questions and answers

So do you believe I'm being paid to diss Chavez? Or that others on other boards are being paid to worship Reagan? Or am I misunderstanding your meaning?

I'm not at all sure why anyone would have to pay people to sing Reagan's praise on a public forum. I mean, slightly less than half the people who voted preferred Romney to Obama, so one could infer that they err on the conservative side of the political spectrum. Of that spectrum, there are surely many on the far right side who indeed worship Reagan, and would unapologetically sing his praises on a public forum. Why would anyone need to spend money to see his legacy elevated?

As far as Reagan-worship, I apply the same standard. I don't see much hope for societies that are kept afloat by the personality of its leader. I don't see any danger of this happening with Reagan. I do see it with Chavez. They're going worship his corpse like Lenin, for crying out loud.

What's equally baffling to me is that is inconceivable to you that a democrat could be critical of Chavez without being a paid shill or under the direct control of Fox News or Rush Limbaugh. That's kind of a laughably narrow viewpoint, don't you think? Either that or a sizable number of people on DU are getting paid to diss the man. Jsus, I wish I was getting paid. I'm trying to survive on SS and I'm really struggling.

Frankly, you seem to be strangely limited in your ability to see viewpoints other than your own, at least on this particular issue. You also seem to believe that you possess a monopoly on the truth, and that all other viewpoints are simply RW propoganda. Not a very liberal trait, and honestly, it reminds me of many posters in the old Dungeon, who always claimed that anyone who did not believe that 9/11 was an "inside job" was obviously a paid shill. That's a cheap intellectual shortcut that's frequently used to cut short discussion with those whom we disagree.

Edited to add: the phrase 'Hero worship' has been around for a long time, certainly long before people started using it in the context of Hugo Chavez. The fact that people are using it is much more indicative that it simply perfectly fits than that people are being paid to use it. Occam's razor.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #77)

Sun Mar 10, 2013, 03:44 PM

80. The man's corpse is going to be a tourist attraction

Nope, no cult of personality there!

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Response to FrodosPet (Reply #80)

Sun Mar 10, 2013, 10:51 PM

83. Do you know anything about other cultures?

To many countries America's death culture, our long drawn out funerals and deification of morons like Ronald Reagan, a war criminal himself, seem quite insane to many people in other countries

We need to stop judging other cultures by our standards, they are not that great, and I hate to break it to you the US is not the center of the univers, or even of this planet.

Speaking of being obsessed with people, the obsession with the US Far Right with Chavez is remarkable.

Of course we know why there is this US obsession with Chavez, don't we, he refused to hand over Venezuela's oil to our corrupt oil cartel buddies.

It is not the Left that is obsessed with Chavez, it never was, it is the Right and it always was. And we all know why, don't we?

Maybe it's time we minded our business which badly needs some attention right now.

He sure drove Right Wingers crazy though and for that alone he should be called a hero imo!

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Response to Flatulo (Reply #69)

Sun Mar 10, 2013, 10:44 AM

76. Lol, the old right wing 'Liberals think Hugo is a Saint' routine. Do you read

those sites? l laughed my head off reading them all over the internet this week.

They all repeat the same things when it comes to Liberal Democrats so you know it's paid for propaganda. Rush and Fox tell them how to think.

And one of their favorites is 'Saint Hugo can do no wrong with Lieberals'. They must have used that a million times this week alone.

Rush, Fox et al give them 'weapons' to use against those 'stupid Lieberals'. Lol. But it's hard to be 'cool' when you're just repeating what you're told to say without a single fact to back it up.

I used to ask them for proof of some of the idiotic things they say, like this, but it was like talking to infants, as everyone knows, 'proof' isn't necessary to them.

Anyhow, being that this is not a dumb, rightwing forum and here we generally do ask for facts, could YOU provide some proof of that old phrase?

I totally admire Chavez and am more than willing to back up my reasons as a Liberal Democrat as to why. But he was certainly no 'Saint'. I'm not overly fond of Saints btw, most Liberal Democrats are not that into them. Which is why you should be careful about repeating that kind of right wing claim in reference to Democrats on a Democratic forum.

'Hugo is a Saint'! Omg!

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Response to SF Dockworker (Reply #4)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:28 AM

19. are you a troll?

You. Go back to FR

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Response to SF Dockworker (Reply #4)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 12:27 PM

36. I personal don’t care if a politician amasses a fortune

as long as his constituents are healthy, happy, and prospering. Did his people have confidence in his ability to lead and make decisions for the good of all? And, by everything I have read from every source that didn’t seem to be promoting their own agenda, his people seemed to think that he was doing them good

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)


Response to SF Dockworker (Reply #5)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 08:54 AM

6. Care to stop spamming right-wing talking points?

What the heck is "celebrity net worth", anyway?

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Response to SF Dockworker (Reply #5)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 08:58 AM

7. Please refer to the charts at this link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022477712

And tell me he did no good for his country.

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Response to onlyadream (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:01 AM

8. Anyone who posts as "SF Dockworker"

And uses anti-Chavez rhetoric like that ain't from San Francisco and ain't a dockworker(in SF, they call 'em "longshoremen", as he'd know if he lived there).

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #8)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:25 AM

17. The finishing touches are always *cute* n/t

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #8)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 10:01 AM

25. He probably went from

John Galt-John Galt999 and gave up.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #8)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 12:19 PM

34. Correct. And the Longshoremen out here are really left-wing.

It's one of the most progressive unions on the West Coast, AFAIK. They'd kick this guy's phony ass.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #34)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 02:38 PM

49. They go to every anti-war march we've had there

I live in the Bay Area.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #8)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 12:41 PM

38. Come on, everyone in SF knows a dockworker cleans up the vomit when the party boats return

Oh, I understand many dockworkers moonlight at the porn houses mopping up jizz, too.

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Response to Brother Buzz (Reply #38)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:09 PM

51. That makes that old Otis Redding song sound REALLY creepy, yo.

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Response to SF Dockworker (Reply #5)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:23 AM

16. Care to rethink the crock you're peddling on a leftwing board populated by intelligent people?

See post #15 http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2481721

I'm surprised you're not sporting a Che avatar.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:02 AM

9. He was what we need in this country now.

Someone who really believes in people before obscene
Profits.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:09 AM

10. Looks like some DUers

have been drinking the corporatist Kool-Aid. Millions of Venezuelans have a better life because of Hugo Chavez. Great post, Ken, Thank You!!

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Response to FiggyJay (Reply #10)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:10 AM

12. Yeah. there are some who sound like they STILL think the Bay of Pigs was a good idea, too.

Going cold turkey on the Cold War must really be tough.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:10 AM

11. thanks that's was a great way to tell his story

the people will miss him, warts and all.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:22 AM

14. Thank you for your tribute. Chávez no ha muerto, el vive en la revolución!

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #14)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 10:14 AM

27. You forgot to say

ˇHasta la victoria siempre!

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Response to Janecita (Reply #27)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 10:32 AM

29. It does sound better together. Thank you for suggestion.

Hope I didn't mistype anything.

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #29)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 12:13 PM

33. Everything sounds better with a little Che!

It was perfect👏

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:27 AM

18. Beautiful post

Rec

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:29 AM

20. Well done

He cast a big shadow. It's not clear left-leaning governments would have been elected elsewhere in Latin America without his achievements and support.

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Response to TomClash (Reply #20)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:49 AM

22. Oh please, get a grip.

Lula was elected at more or less the same time. Not surprisingly, he doesn't show up on that net worth list. Can't imagine why.
Don't think he's going to be put on permanent display after his death either.
Latin America was before him and will continue after him and even in spite of him to be a place with thoroughly mature politics where leftists are freely elected and serve their countries well. They don't need some maximum leader to make that all cool or something. Sheesh.

As to Venezuela, it's a supply region, that is, a place that earns its way by exporting commodities for use by advanced nations. In places like that, the politics is all about grabbing those commodities and enriching yourself. I'm not surprised this is what Chavez did, to be fair to him, it's SOP in these kinds of places. See Putin or the Saudi royal family for other instances. The only thing I'm surprised at around here is this unbecoming adulation of a man who was nothing more or less than a typical supply region pol.

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Response to Benton D Struckcheon (Reply #22)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 10:28 AM

28. No, you get a grip and quit peddling rightwing propaganda on this board

Care to address why you're deliberately repeating the lie that Chavez stole billions when the sole source of that lie is a Bush fanatic propagandist?

Your smears are more than disgusting, they're pathetic because you're not adept enough to pull it off.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2481721

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Response to Catherina (Reply #28)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 10:54 AM

31. Chavez Family Wealth

More right wing propaganda. What a naive bunch y'all are.

State Ruled by Crime and Chávez Family : http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/world/americas/21venez.html (Link thing not working for some reason, so put it outside)

In an election last year marred by accusations of fraud, Adán Chávez succeeded his own father, Hugo de los Reyes Chávez, a former schoolteacher who had governed Barinas for a decade with the president’s brother, Argenis, the former secretary of state in Barinas.

Another brother, Aníbal, is mayor of nearby Sabaneta, and another brother, Adelis, is a top banker at Banco Sofitasa, which does business with Adán’s government. Yet another brother, Narciso, was put in charge of cooperation projects with Cuba. The president’s cousin Asdrúbal holds a top post at the national oil company.

Politicians once loyal to the president who have broken with him and his family here contend that Mr. Chávez’s family has amassed wealth and landholdings through a series of deals carried out by front men.

One opposition leader, Wilmer Azuaje, detailed to prosecutors and legislators what he said was more than $20 million in illegal gains by the family since the president’s father was elected governor in 1998. But in a brief review of those claims, National Assembly, under the control of Chávez loyalists, cleared the family of charges of illicit enrichment.

“In the meantime, while the family wraps itself in the rhetoric of socialism, we are descending into a neo-capitalist chaos where all that matters is money,” said Alberto Santelíz, the publisher of La Prensa, a small opposition newspaper.

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Response to Benton D Struckcheon (Reply #31)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 11:57 AM

32. Stop - you're pissing all over a perfectly good deification.

There'll be no criticism of Hugo in these parts.

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Response to Flatulo (Reply #32)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 12:24 PM

35. You are so cute when you get angry. :)

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Response to Flatulo (Reply #32)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:25 PM

55. Said the poster who thinks it's clever

to name himself for the Italian term for intestinal gas.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #55)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:54 PM

62. Give them a point for fair warning about the smell of the content they might produce. :)

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #55)

Sun Mar 10, 2013, 06:35 AM

73. Aw, c'mon Ken, it's a little bit clever.

Admit it - farts are quite funny.

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Response to Flatulo (Reply #73)

Sun Mar 10, 2013, 06:38 AM

74. for a few weeks, in second grade maybe.

Last edited Sun Mar 10, 2013, 07:32 AM - Edit history (1)

It's not far from thinking that it's funny to pick up a dog turd on a stick and shake at little girls when you're at that age, as well.

Using a posting name like that is pretty much the same thing as saying "I don't think this forum or any of the discussions that occur within it could possibly be worthy of my respect".

I hope that isn't the message you MEANT to convey.

If you do think this board is a joke, nobody's forcing you to be part of it.

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Response to Flatulo (Reply #32)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 04:11 PM

64. When someone peddles propaganda, and please don't tell us that Judith Miller's NYT

is a source anyone who does not pay homage to Global Corporate powers, should accept without question, at least here on a Democratic forum, they can expect to be corrected.

The Clintons, the Obamas and in fact, every US President in recent times and unless we change our ways for the foreseeable future, have and will amass huge fortunes. Not to mention our Million Dollar Club, or is it Billions now, known as the US Senate.

I hope Chavez did make a fortune, he certainly deserved it.

It is laughable for the NYT or any US publication to try to make an issue of a President making money. The total lack of awareness, and for anyone on a democratic board to buy into the propaganda, is just astounding.

Show me a US president who isn't obscenely wealthy after, and even during, their time in office?

Unbelievable nonsense, and the NYT once again proves how little credibility they have by participating in what Wikileaks has now proven beyond any doubt, the Multi Million dollar campaign spent on trying to smear Left leaning leaders in SA like Chavez. I would be ashamed to fall for it as a Democrat.

Something like $300,000,000 we found out, spent on publishing propaganda like this. I wonder has the NYT enriched ITSELF for all the propaganda it agrees to publish?

If Chavez did make some money, good for him.

Oh, how the 'capitalists' suddenly turn into 'socialists' when it comes to Latin American leaders doing what our own do without comment. Hillarious, the hypocrisy.

The sheer stupidity of pointing fingers when right in their own back yard they ignore the same 'terrible crimes'!

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Response to Benton D Struckcheon (Reply #31)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 12:57 PM

40. We're naive? Too funny. Please try harder.

Are you so used to Free Republic-type fellows who swallow any swill the corporate media throws out that you think it will work here? We already know what the NYT thinks of Chavez and how complicitly delighted they were with the 2002 coup against Chavez.

We already know how they not only cheered for the Iraq war but how they deliberately fed the Bush Administrations lies to the public.

Try again please.

Another *gem* from the NYT's

Jun 01 2002
U.S. Papers Hail Venezuelan Coup as Pro-Democracy Move

When elements of the Venezuelan military forced President Hugo Chávez from office in April, the editorial boards of several major U.S. newspapers, following the U.S. government's lead, greeted the news with enthusiasm.

In an April 13 editorial, the New York Times triumphantly declared that Chávez's "resignation" meant that "Venezuelan democracy is no longer threatened by a would-be dictator." Conspicuously avoiding the word "coup," the Times explained that Chávez "stepped down after the military intervened and handed power to a respected business leader."

Calling Chávez "a ruinous demagogue," the Times offered numerous criticisms of his policies and urged speedy new elections, saying "Venezuela urgently needs a leader with a strong democratic mandate." A casual reader might easily have missed the Times' brief acknowledgement that Chávez did actually have a democratic mandate, having been "elected president in 1998."

The paper's one nod to the fact that military takeovers are not generally regarded as democratic was to note hopefully that with "continued civic participation," perhaps "further military involvement" in Venezuelan politics could be kept "to a minimum."
Three days later, Chávez had returned to power, and the Times ran a second editorial (4/16/02) half-apologizing for having gotten carried away:

"In his three years in office, Mr. Chávez has been such a divisive and demagogic leader that his forced departure last week drew applause at home and in Washington. That reaction, which we shared, overlooked the undemocratic manner in which he was removed. Forcibly unseating a democratically elected leader, no matter how badly he has performed, is never something to cheer."


The Times stood its ground, however, on the value of a timely military coup for teaching a president a lesson, saying, "We hope Mr. Chávez will act as a more responsible and moderate leader now that he seems to realize the anger he stirred."

...

http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/u-s-papers-hail-venezuelan-coup-as-pro-democracy-move/

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Response to Catherina (Reply #40)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 01:23 PM

44. So in your obviously totalitarian worldview,

if I dare say a word against the Dear Leader I'm a freeper. Got it.
Seriously pathetic.

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Response to Benton D Struckcheon (Reply #44)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 02:20 PM

46. Harder please, without putting words in my mouth or accusing me of a totalitarian worldview

Nowhere did I say you were a freeper though you're quite comfortable brazenly repeating the lie about "Chavez' net worth" that SF Dockworker was just deactivated for in this very thread.

What's seriously pathetic is you twisting my words to play the victim. I'm sure you can do better than that to combat "this unbecoming adulation of a man who was nothing more or less than a typical supply region pol."

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Response to Benton D Struckcheon (Reply #44)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:24 PM

54. He's not a North Korean overlord-type.

Every time I hear someone use the phrase "Dear Leader", I assume Bambi has seized power.

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Response to Benton D Struckcheon (Reply #44)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:51 PM

60. Oh oh... We are to totalitarian already... Stalin next?

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Response to Benton D Struckcheon (Reply #31)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:23 PM

53. Y'know, you have the perfect name for a creature who lives under the bridge.

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Response to Benton D Struckcheon (Reply #31)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:32 PM

57. Do you have a brother who's a "Dockworker"?

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Response to Benton D Struckcheon (Reply #22)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 10:33 AM

30. Got more Bush and RW propaganda to peddle?

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #30)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:26 PM

56. Almost certainly yes.

They'll be ranting about the "armed chavistas" next...

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #56)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:44 PM

59. Can't wait. :)

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:43 AM

21. Great Piece Ken

 

All of the great leaders throughout history, FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Clinton, Chavez........etc, have a couple of things in common:

They all stood up for those who had trouble standing up for themselves.

Against all criticism, they made life better for nearly all.

They did not sacrifice their principles in the face of fear.

History has been, or is sure to be, extremely kind to their legacies.

They have all been mocked, made sport of, called communists, socialists, fascists, or worse, by right-wing extremists.

Yet these great men chose to remain true to their convictions, spit in the face of those who spoke out so loudly against them, and all became symbols of the greatness of the human spirit and spokesmen for the common man. I find myself in awe of the greatness of such persons.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:55 AM

24. Very kind words Ken.

 

I have no doubt Mr. Chavez will go down in history as one of the great leadedrs of this new century. No matter what the corporatist say.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 10:10 AM

26. Kind words

This auldphart approves/endorses this message.

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Response to 3auld6phart (Reply #26)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 12:45 PM

39. Chavez


Thank you for that beautiful tribute to Hugo Chavez. Joseph Kennedy from Massachusetts also released a tribute to Chavez. Kennedy started Citizen Energy which provides free oil for low income citizens & in his TV ads Kennedy always acknowledges Mr. Chavez & the people of Venezuela for their help in providing oil not only in Massachusetts but also I believe in 8 other states.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 01:05 PM

42. A beautiful and moving tribute to the Comandante Eternal (nt)

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 01:28 PM

45. What Chavez acomplished in Venezuela,

...gives me hope for The World.

The NeoCons, obsessed with Iraq, took their eye-off-the-ball in South America,
and Democracy broke out all over the place.

ViVa Democracy!!!!
I pray we get some here soon.
WE outnumber THEM by 99%

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #45)

Sun Mar 10, 2013, 07:00 AM

75. Indeed. When Sauron's Eye turned to the Precious in the Middle East--

--all the Latin American hobbits were free to take diverse other paths.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 02:28 PM

48. That brought tears to my eyes

There is such retched poverty in Mexico and South America.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:21 PM

52. Excellent post, Mr Burch.

If only we had someone as committed to the people to run this Nation in our time of need, as Hugo Chavez was.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:54 PM

61. Very nice tribute, thank you!

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 04:39 PM

66. Will trolls be covered in the new book on mental disorders ?

What pleasure is derived from putting down Chavez ?

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Response to olddots (Reply #66)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 04:41 PM

67. the same as smearing one's waste on the walls of one's padded room, I think. n/t.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sat Mar 9, 2013, 10:24 PM

70. Thank you for expressing so eloquently

thoughts many of us have had but never shared.

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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

Sun Mar 10, 2013, 05:07 PM

82. Excellent.

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