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Thu Mar 7, 2013, 07:51 PM

Ignorant people are really starting to bum me out.

I have this bumper sticker on my car:



Some guy approached me about it in the parking lot of a market and asked me who was going to pay for it. I said everyone would and everyone would benefit. He said it would break the nation. I told him that was nonsense. He said he was eighty years old and from east Germany and he knew how awful it was. I said if he was eighty years old he is already using Medicare and everyone should have it. I asked him when he came from Germany. He said in 1952. I told him he should look what Germany is doing with health care today. He says he knows because the government isn't involved. Again I said that's nonsense. They have a system that is non-profit and run under government guidelines. He then walked away from me shaking his hand at me.

I shouted at him that if Medicare wasn't paying for his medical expenses that he probably couldn't afford the Mercedes he was driving but he wouldn't talk to me anymore. I was ready to go the distance with him to wear him down with facts, but this is what is wrong with old people today, they would rather listen to Hannity, and the rest of the distributors of disinformation than hear the truth.

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Reply Ignorant people are really starting to bum me out. (Original post)
Cleita Mar 2013 OP
GoCubsGo Mar 2013 #1
Cleita Mar 2013 #2
GoCubsGo Mar 2013 #3
Cleita Mar 2013 #4
airplaneman Mar 2013 #26
BadgerKid Mar 2013 #55
GoCubsGo Mar 2013 #58
October Mar 2013 #18
John2 Mar 2013 #5
Cleita Mar 2013 #6
Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #7
Cleita Mar 2013 #10
Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #44
DirkGently Mar 2013 #8
Cleita Mar 2013 #9
DirkGently Mar 2013 #12
October Mar 2013 #19
Cleita Mar 2013 #20
xtraxritical Mar 2013 #34
OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #11
Cleita Mar 2013 #13
OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #14
Cleita Mar 2013 #15
Samantha Mar 2013 #49
LiberalElite Mar 2013 #16
Cleita Mar 2013 #17
PatrynXX Mar 2013 #27
xtraxritical Mar 2013 #40
Cleita Mar 2013 #41
xtraxritical Mar 2013 #48
Cleita Mar 2013 #52
Samantha Mar 2013 #51
watoos Mar 2013 #21
Cleita Mar 2013 #22
Zax2me Mar 2013 #23
BobbyBoring Mar 2013 #24
Cleita Mar 2013 #25
Dawson Leery Mar 2013 #28
juajen Mar 2013 #29
Cleita Mar 2013 #32
abelenkpe Mar 2013 #30
Cleita Mar 2013 #31
Poll_Blind Mar 2013 #33
Phlem Mar 2013 #35
Cleita Mar 2013 #38
Phlem Mar 2013 #53
Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #36
Cleita Mar 2013 #37
Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #39
Zorra Mar 2013 #42
Cleita Mar 2013 #43
Kath1 Mar 2013 #45
Cleita Mar 2013 #46
colsohlibgal Mar 2013 #47
Cleita Mar 2013 #59
Knightraven Mar 2013 #50
Trillo Mar 2013 #54
JI7 Mar 2013 #56
CreekDog Mar 2013 #57

Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 07:59 PM

1. My craphole town is full of people like him.

There was one who had a bumper sticker that said "Poverty is owning a horse." She was driving a BMW. These assholes wouldn't know poverty, Socialism, government-run healthcare, etc., if it jumped up and bit them in the ass. I am sick of them, too.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 08:05 PM

2. How do we deprogram them?

Honestly, the propaganda has really made a bunch of tea bagging zombies out of the majority of them.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 08:08 PM

3. I don't know that we can.

Perhaps the techniques used to deprogram cult members would work. They ARE cult members, after all.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 08:09 PM

4. They are. This is really a problem.

I can't believe some of the crap I overhear when I'm at the gym. It's alarming.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:51 PM

26. Its mindset and paradigms which are fundamental to their perception of reality.

The only way is to outnumber and outvote them. Maybe over time the mindset will change but not if they gain ground politically. Its a serious battle. We can never give up.
-Airplane

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 8, 2013, 04:52 AM

55. Isn't starting them early all part of the method?

No exposure to critical thinking: Do what you are told because I said so.

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Response to BadgerKid (Reply #55)

Fri Mar 8, 2013, 07:52 AM

58. Yep.

And, fortunately, it seems that most younger people these days aren't buying the right-wing bullshit. But, I don't think that the old ones to which Cleita refers can be convinced that all the crap they have been fed is just crap. the vast majority of them are too far gone.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:32 PM

18. That's the perfect term: zombies

They are either incapable of THINKING, or unwilling. Facts mean nothing to them. Gibberish Foxspeak is the only language they understand. I honestly don't know if it's possible to turn them into non-angry normal people. They cannot function without an enemy. Even when they had Congress, the President, and the Judicial branch, they were angrier than ever. It's all they have. Anger.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 08:29 PM

5. So he was

 

of military age during Nazi Germany if he is really 80 years old and came here in 1952.

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Response to John2 (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 08:40 PM

6. Well, not quite. He would have been about eighteen in 1952, but

definitely Hitler Youth age before the war ended. Look I don't doubt he probably went through crap after the Russians took over East Germany. I had a German friend whose family went through hell then. So what he's thinking of is nationalized health as the Soviets did it. I really wanted to talk to him further, but he wouldn't talk to me. He doesn't want to know.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 08:49 PM

7. Good for you. Don't let these idiots go unchallenged (while keeping yourself safe, of course). n/t

 

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:00 PM

10. I'm not too worried about old people. I have backed off

of some ugly rednecks back when I was canvassing during elections.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 11:23 PM

44. That's very wise. More and more people are starting to crack under the pressure all the time. n/t

 


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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 08:55 PM

8. I've decided not to let stupid shit pass anymore.


Calm tone, aiming for non-condescending or mocking. But it's amazing the utter nontruths people in the general population bandy about casually. I never bring up politics in a business setting. But twice recently someone has casually mouthed off about one idiotic thing or another (the government can't provide good healthcare, Obama was "in control of Congress for two years!") and I didn't let it go. Got some neutral vibes back, some positive, some negative.

I won't start it. But people need to understand the conservative "common wisdom" is simply false.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 08:59 PM

9. You are so right. We can't shut up anymore.

I usually just overhear stuff. I don't interfere in other's conversations although they drive me crazy. But like today I have been directly confronted and I'm not letting it go anymore. But it seems they don't want to stay and be educated. It's like the bully who backs off when the wimp fights back.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:06 PM

12. They're angry because their emotional response isn't supported by the facts.


All these rightwing nuggets of illogic have piled up unchallenged (to one extent or another) until we are all standing in the shadow of that "Shit Mountain" Jon Stewart talked about.

But if enough sons and daughters and co-workers and neighbors and friends question them -- not with partisan slogans of our own, but with facts and empathy and thought, we will wear down the mountain of B.S. to the little, ridiculous nub of nut-wingery it really is.

I hope.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:35 PM

19. I agree with you

Still, it's hard to keep up! I mean, you almost need a handy list of facts to keep on-hand to counter their untruths. They just say anything -- but they demand facts from liberals. It's infuriating at times. Most times.

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Response to October (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:40 PM

20. Now that I think about it, I have asked, in the past, where

they know this from. None of them can answer other than that they heard it somewhere.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 10:25 PM

34. Argue with an 80 y.o.? Why?

 

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:05 PM

11. Your comment, "this is what is wrong with old people today" is rather broad-brushed, isn't it?.....

....There are quite a few "old people" who post on this board and from what I've read, they are VERY different from the individual you encountered in the parking lot.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #11)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:09 PM

13. Not really. I'm an old people myself (73) and I'm getting fed up with my peer

group.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:20 PM

14. No, you're just getting fed up with the people you encounter who turn out to be ignorant....

...They can come from ANY age group.

How many people do you encounter every day in our age group who turn out NOT to be ignorant?

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #14)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:25 PM

15. I think at our age, experience and I hope some education would make

us a little wiser than the yung uns'. Unfortunately, the people in our age group that I encounter these days, like this fellow, I can't really relate to anymore. The propaganda has done its job. I really don't know one in real life (other than DU) who isn't ignorant, but I don't go out that much.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #11)

Fri Mar 8, 2013, 01:12 AM

49. I agree

I am an older person and I have never watched Hannity. In fact, I have boycotted FOX for the last 12 years.

I think the problem with Medicare is the wholesale gouging by insurance and prescription drug companies. That is known as the true white collar crime in America, and it is not difficult to perceive that many politicians are simply aiming to pass those extremely highly-inflated costs to the government and participants rather than holding the companies which do this accountable.

Other than that, I have an 80-year old neighbor with a serious heart problem who is the trendiest fashionista on the street, and she even wears her hair in a pony tail. She is truly cool, pretty computer-literate, and to my knowledge, never looks down on people decades younger than she -- simply because they haven't lived as long as she and acquired that vast wealth of information and knowledge that she has....

Sam

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:27 PM

16. Waaait a minute -

This is what's "wrong with old people"??? It's more like this is what's wrong with the willfully ignorant right wing.

All old people are not listening to Hannity. I'm verging on old (60's) and am just beginning to get the special ageist treatment, so I'm a little sensitive. Blanket statements about one age group or another are unhelpful. To illustrate - some time ago, maybe in late 1980s, Japanese Emperor Hirohito died. I was born after WWII but I knew from history lessons that Hirohito was considered a bad guy and war criminal. As such, I didn't understand why news reports implied that his death was something to be unhappy about. At my job a co-worker, maybe 20 years older than I, went out of her way to confront me and said the media-reported outpouring of grief was all the fault of "your generation" because buy the products of Japanese manufacturers Sony and Panasonic. I answered, "Well, one of YOUR generation (then-president George Bush Sr.) is going to the funeral." My long-winded point is, don't generalize about age groups. None of them are monolithic.

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:29 PM

17. You are sixty. OMG, you could be my boy toy!

You are right. I shouldn't paste all old people as being ignorant about current events. I should paste even those on the cusp as that because I'm probably right.

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:54 PM

27. kinda tossed the age question

when it occured to me some posting in the porn forums are well over 60!


like oh okay now I look silly..

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 10:37 PM

40. I take umbrage to all the references in posts to "old white men" blah, blah, blah...

 

I'm an old (over 60) white man and I've voted Democratic in every election since 1972. I'm only one of many, I come from possibly the most progressive generation there ever was. I was active in protesting for civil rights. I was doing weed in 1966. I got beat-up by cops in Chicago in 1968. I was in Washington D.C. for Occupy the October before last. I went to Berkley to Occupy the campus last year after the kids got beat up by the cops. Just saying, stereotypes are stereotypes and generalities are generalities.

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #40)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 10:53 PM

41. I think your umbrage is rather misplaced. For one thing I didn't

ever use the term old white men. I did say "old people" and that's what I meant. They could be anyone. It's just that this old guy who wasn't even an American born person, and he was white, synthesized to me what was pissing me off. It's too bad he wasn't even a "born" American. It wasn't important to me where he came from. He just was what has been pissing me off in the community of the privileged I ended up living in, and I mean I ENDED UP HERE, by circumstance, not choice.

I had a few beatings back in the days myself in protests. So here's to you.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #41)

Fri Mar 8, 2013, 12:56 AM

48. Many posts use the term old white men and you generalize "old people" the same way. nuff said.

 

Also, I ask again, why argue with an 80 year old? What if they freaked and had a heart attack or stroke because you upset them? You're so politically correct you have to educate everyone? Just really lame. Have you no discretion?

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #48)

Fri Mar 8, 2013, 02:39 AM

52. Because the 80 year old confronted me first?

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 8, 2013, 01:22 AM

51. I think 60 is middle-aged (meaning simply you are in the middle of your life)

I think of myself also as being in the middle of my life and quite frankly I think it is appalling that some younger people are so quick to criticize a person simply because of his or her age. This recently happened to me when my neighbor's daughter derogatorily called me old. This is a person I watched grow up who came to me for advice whenever she had serious problems. I mean serious problems she could not discuss with her parents, her unexpectedly pregnancy at 17, her abusive boyfriend, should she marry a man that chronically yelled and screamed at her in public -- those types of things. I always took the time to sit down and discuss anything and everything with her. Suddenly, when she became 20, I am "old" to her.

Personally, I think an 80-year old who is stubborn, insulting and cranky probably was just as stubborn, insulting and cranky at 21.

Sam

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:40 PM

21. It's tough for Democrats

because the MSM is controlled by corporatists, they control the narrative.
When people like Keith Olbermann, Cenk Uyngur, and Dylan Radigan told the truth on TV, they got canned.
This site is a bit of a comfort to me. It's one of the few sites putting out the truth.

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Response to watoos (Reply #21)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:42 PM

22. Hey welcome to DU!

This site has been comfort to me for almost a decade even with the arguments and other things that go on.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:45 PM

23. I was this way until President Obama was re-elected.

 

Gave me hope for change all over again.
Even so, many out there remain clueless.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:49 PM

24. In spite of the pain it causes my brain

I listen to RW talk radio. The only reason is, I'm trying to figure out how people believe this bullshit. Their opinions and core beliefs are spoon fed to them by ENTERTAINERS! PERIOD! As much as contempt as they have for the "Hollywood" ENTERTAINERS really boggles the mind. At least the "Hollywood" ENTERTAINERS actually entertain while the RW talk and TV hosts do nothing remotely entertaining. They just spew made up bullshit 24/7. They still can't believe RMoney lost, but don't realize he was running against an Obama that doesn't exist. The Marxist, Communist, Socialist, Muslim one.

If I figure it out, it will be on the greatest for years. Don't hold you breath~

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Response to BobbyBoring (Reply #24)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:51 PM

25. Also, they benefit from the same UNIONS as the entertainers.

A whole heap of hypocrisy is there.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 09:58 PM

28. The "silent" generation as it's called had an easy life.

They never had to experience the horrors of the great depression. The GI's rebuilt society, the silents came into the workforce in the mid 50's during the post war boom.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 10:17 PM

29. I totally agree, Cleita, and I am one of the elderly.

I find often that this is caused by what they heard at home and how well they are educated. You would be amazed at what people believe "Critical Thinking" is.

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Response to juajen (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 10:23 PM

32. Hi Juajen.

I haven't seen you post much lately or maybe I don't post where you do.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 10:18 PM

30. He's wealthy

And therefore superior to you says the scene you describe where he walks off ignoring you and drives away in his Mercedes.

Or I watch too many movies...

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #30)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 10:22 PM

31. You are absolutely right. But I'm rather used to being treated as inferior,

first because I'm a woman and I could go on but I won't. And, my ten year old car, which I love and works for me, but wasn't as fancy as his.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 10:24 PM

33. Oh, I dunno if it's an "old people thing", I think it's more of...

...a viewpoint that people can subscribe to or not.

PB

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 10:28 PM

35. I do believe it's called willful ignorance.

I deal with it everyday in my family and extended family on my wife's side. It's an epidemic in this country and along with this notion that "my ignorance is just as important as his facts so F off". They're eye's glaze over the simplest example and then they spout off and froth at the mouth.

I's an impenetrable wall and I am frankly tired of dealing with it.

Now I just make fun of them, its a laugh and it makes me feel better.

I'm open to any other options.



-p

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Response to Phlem (Reply #35)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 10:32 PM

38. Making fun of them is good as long as they let you get away with it.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #38)

Fri Mar 8, 2013, 02:54 AM

53. Thanks Cletia

hugs back at ya.

-p

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 10:29 PM

36. Did you follow him to the local Moose Lodge to hear him talk about the hippie he met?

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #36)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 10:31 PM

37. I would have but he decided he didn't want to finish the conversation

he had started with me.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #37)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 10:34 PM

39. I always ask if they're leaving because their Depends need changing.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 11:13 PM

42. A conservative I know I bought about 40 pismo clams, and tried to tell me they were bay scallops.

He bought them for 50 pesos, which is roughly about $4 US.

He insisted that they were scallops. They absolutely were not scallops.

Then his friend says, "In some places people have different names for things."



Yeah, ignorant people bum me out too; they're actually pretty scary in a way, IMO.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 11:18 PM

43. I live next door to Pismo Beach and I know clamming was a big thing a long

time ago. But there really aren't any clams anymore. So everyone got screwed.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 11:30 PM

45. Good for you, Cleita !

Keep that bumper sticker on your car! Way to go in standing up for your ideals and standing up for the facts! isn't it amazing how they crumble when facts get in the way of their brainwashed Limbaugh way of thinking! I've had the same sort of experience many times. You should be proud of how you handled that encounter!

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Response to Kath1 (Reply #45)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 11:34 PM

46. Thank you Kath1

I think I posted because it's hard not being in the mainstream. I have had the bumper sticker on my car for a long time. I have had my car scratched, I believe because of it. This is the first time I was accosted about it. I won't back off.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Fri Mar 8, 2013, 12:39 AM

47. The Dumbing Down Here Is In Full Gear

It's amazing what many people don't know or are off base on.

Not so in that evil socialist Scandinavia, I saw on some program lately that grade school kids in Norway could speak and grasp 3 or so languages already. Our kids - not so much.

In some places like Texas it's going to get worse because of all the religious nut cases there.

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #47)

Fri Mar 8, 2013, 02:45 PM

59. When I lived in Los Angeles, I used to meet young people from various

Scandanavian countries when I went to the beach. They were from Norway, Sweden, Denmark etc., and were traveling around before they settled into life back home. I was always impressed with how good their English was. They were also so healthy looking, probably because of all that socialist health care they got from inside the womb and throughout their lives.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Fri Mar 8, 2013, 01:18 AM

50. I have been around diffrent areas of the country and it never surprises me.

There are so many that are scared to do the right thing due to not researching. They instead listen to those like Hannity.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Fri Mar 8, 2013, 03:15 AM

54. One of the problems you're encountering, has to do with education and integrity,

and how, in a capitalist system run by a very few extremely wealthy entities, the educated that many have dealt with have been their tools, and have used their education and intelligence to deceive. Thus, the perception that education past high school is inversely related to integrity. The more education you have, the less integrity you are perceived to have.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Fri Mar 8, 2013, 04:57 AM

56. stupid asshole, he is the one who first approached you

but when he can't accept the info you give him he walks off.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Fri Mar 8, 2013, 04:58 AM

57. good on you for doing that

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