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The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 03:38 PM Mar 2013

DHS declares Search and Seizure rights inside 100 miles of USA border

The Department of Homeland Security’s civil rights watchdog has concluded that travelers along the nation’s borders may have their electronics seized and the contents of those devices examined for any reason whatsoever — all in the name of national security.

The DHS, which secures the nation’s border, in 2009 announced that it would conduct a “Civil Liberties Impact Assessment” of its suspicionless search-and-seizure policy pertaining to electronic devices “within 120 days.” More than three years later, the DHS office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties published a two-page executive summary of its findings.

...

The President George W. Bush administration first announced the suspicionless, electronics search rules in 2008. The President Barack Obama administration followed up with virtually the same rules a year later. Between 2008 and 2010, 6,500 persons had their electronic devices searched along the U.S. border, according to DHS data.

According to legal precedent, the Fourth Amendment — the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures — does not apply along the border. By the way, the government contends the Fourth-Amendment-Free Zone stretches 100 miles inland from the nation’s actual border.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/02/electronics-border-seizures/

56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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DHS declares Search and Seizure rights inside 100 miles of USA border (Original Post) The Straight Story Mar 2013 OP
Is it fascism yet? KamaAina Mar 2013 #1
The US has been a police state for some time. PDJane Mar 2013 #2
finally codified by the PATRIOT act. KG Mar 2013 #33
Endorsed and Co-Signed by BOTH major Political Parties. bvar22 Mar 2013 #54
yes. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #27
Of course not, I haven't seen this yet. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #39
Here we go... diabeticman Mar 2013 #3
1,500 miles should cover it jsr Mar 2013 #6
100 miles from the border. hmm, what's that, about 80% of the population, i'm guessing? unblock Mar 2013 #4
I believe that includes international entry points such as airports, more like 95% of the population pediatricmedic Mar 2013 #5
What if my house is within that 100 miles? MindPilot Mar 2013 #7
"I hate this fucking oppressive police state of a country. I would leave in a heartbeat" green for victory Mar 2013 #9
"Suicide is looking more and more like a viable alternative." Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #24
Has this bullshit been challenged at SCOTUS? ChisolmTrailDem Mar 2013 #8
Unfortunately you're incorrect. The USSCt ruled some years ago COLGATE4 Mar 2013 #25
It is all a matter of skepticscott Mar 2013 #43
The Constitution Free Zone. bluedigger Mar 2013 #10
And ALL of Hawaii. RC Mar 2013 #13
Oh yeah. bluedigger Mar 2013 #14
I have a friend living on Oahu. RC Mar 2013 #17
That's worse than the "prescribed military zones" OnyxCollie Mar 2013 #36
that strikes me as excessive dsc Mar 2013 #11
That is because you are thinking rationally. RC Mar 2013 #20
terrorists in our ports!!!! HiPointDem Mar 2013 #31
The whole state of Michigan falls under this. dmr Mar 2013 #12
+1 HiPointDem Mar 2013 #29
As well as all 6 New England states cali Mar 2013 #40
Amendment IV bemildred Mar 2013 #15
Besides the attack on freedom, how can we afford this shit? Just WTF? we can do it Mar 2013 #16
but, but, we don't live in a police state! KG Mar 2013 #18
Well, we do, but... MindPilot Mar 2013 #32
I'm curious how far-right extremists are looking at this violation of the Constitution.... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #19
I missed the part in civics class sarisataka Mar 2013 #21
Can someone please stake the vampire that is Homeland Security? JCMach1 Mar 2013 #22
The usual authoritarian defenders of this bullshit are missing. GoneOffShore Mar 2013 #23
+1 HiPointDem Mar 2013 #30
I expect a less nuanced approach. OnyxCollie Mar 2013 #47
DU is heavily propagandized, woo me with science Mar 2013 #56
Can we START with Wall Street? Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #26
Well then, I'm screwed. I live within five miles of the coast, which is within 1monster Mar 2013 #28
What does the RCMP think about this? iandhr Mar 2013 #34
"Your papers please" Remember that phrase? WHEN CRABS ROAR Mar 2013 #35
What really bothers me is this from the article. Arcanetrance Mar 2013 #37
K&R Somewhere Bush is smiling. forestpath Mar 2013 #38
HAVE WE HAD ENOUGH YET?! woo me with science Mar 2013 #41
Oh great - KT2000 Mar 2013 #42
Republicans recently proposed a bill OnyxCollie Mar 2013 #49
This means about a third of California Betsy Ross Mar 2013 #44
I would not be surprised if they modify it soon in this way: The Straight Story Mar 2013 #45
That's it, I'm cancelling my training trip to California TrogL Mar 2013 #46
Relax people! Obama's totally got this! n/t Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #48
Here's what you do Gman Mar 2013 #50
All this in the wake of the sequester? KansDem Mar 2013 #51
It's ok! johnnyreb Mar 2013 #52
Seems like a shitty idea. nt limpyhobbler Mar 2013 #53
This is BULLSHIT MadrasT Mar 2013 #55
 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
1. Is it fascism yet?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 03:42 PM
Mar 2013

Since the Constitution no longer applies to San Diego, Detroit, Buffalo and many other places?

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
54. Endorsed and Co-Signed by BOTH major Political Parties.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:23 PM
Mar 2013

So what is a fool who cares about our democracy to do?

diabeticman

(3,121 posts)
3. Here we go...
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 03:46 PM
Mar 2013



Next they are going to expand that to 250 miles from the boarder than 1000 miles.. Than everything from one boarder to another...


And that is the 4th amendment being stripped away more by another department of U.S. Government.

unblock

(52,205 posts)
4. 100 miles from the border. hmm, what's that, about 80% of the population, i'm guessing?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 03:47 PM
Mar 2013

counting both land borders and coastlines?

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
7. What if my house is within that 100 miles?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 04:13 PM
Mar 2013

I live roughly 3 miles from the beach and 20 miles from the border. So from an individual rights standpoint, my backyard is no different than the airport. With the possible exception of the fact that when I'm at the airport, I have voluntarily waived my rights. I made no such agreement when I moved to San Diego.

I hate this fucking oppressive police state of a country. I would leave in a heartbeat, but unfortunately there is no place on this planet where you are not under the jackboot of the US government.

Suicide is looking more and more like a viable alternative.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
24. "Suicide is looking more and more like a viable alternative."
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 05:04 PM
Mar 2013

Sounds like someone needs to go to the French Riviera.

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
8. Has this bullshit been challenged at SCOTUS?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 04:17 PM
Mar 2013

There is no such thing as the 4th Amendment "does not apply". Something called a "Fourth-Amendment-Free Zone" is automatically un-Constitutional. Period.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
25. Unfortunately you're incorrect. The USSCt ruled some years ago
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 05:04 PM
Mar 2013

that border searches and seizures are not subject to the 4th Amendment. Just depends on how you define "border".

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
43. It is all a matter of
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:05 PM
Mar 2013

What the Supreme Court decides is a "reasonable" search. Only "unreasonable" searches are prohibited under the 4th Amendment.

bluedigger

(17,086 posts)
10. The Constitution Free Zone.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 04:22 PM
Mar 2013

Expect to be subject to search and seizure anywhere in Delaware, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Maine or Florida...

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
17. I have a friend living on Oahu.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 04:46 PM
Mar 2013

If she were to be stopped by the "Border Patrol" on a 'cause we can' excuse, it would not be pretty.

dsc

(52,160 posts)
11. that strikes me as excessive
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 04:26 PM
Mar 2013

especially if oceans are put in that definition of border. I could see a few miles within the Mexican border and the Canadian border is being reasonable, but not 100 miles and surely not 100 miles within the ocean and the great lakes.

dmr

(28,347 posts)
12. The whole state of Michigan falls under this.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 04:30 PM
Mar 2013

You and your family could be peacefully driving home or be on vacation anywhere in the state and be stopped.

It angers me so much I can't even articulate my thoughts.


- snip - The government has long been able to search people entering and exiting the country without need to say why, which is known as the border search exception of the Fourth Amendment.

After 9/11, Congress gave the Department of Homeland Security the right to use some of its powers deeper within the country, and now DHS has set up at least 33 internal checkpoints where they stop people, question them and ask them to prove citizenship, according to the ACLU.

"It is a classic example of law enforcement powers expanding far beyond their proper boundaries – in this case, literally,” said Caroline Fredrickson, who heads the ACLU’s Washington, D.C., Legislative Office.

The ACLU says it has scores of complaints from citizens and wants Congress to investigate and roll back the buffer zone. According to a map the rights group released Wednesday, some 190 million citizens live within what the ACLU dubs the "Constitution-free Zone."
- more at link -
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/10/aclu-assails-10/




You know the old adage? Given them an inch and they'll take a mile?

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
15. Amendment IV
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 04:41 PM
Mar 2013
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Since the declaration in the OP is that all searches are "reasonable", this is clearly an attempt to bullshit their way through to what they want, because they are too lazy or incompetent to deal with the quite modest requirments of the Bill of Rights.

we can do it

(12,184 posts)
16. Besides the attack on freedom, how can we afford this shit? Just WTF?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 04:44 PM
Mar 2013

Don't misread this- I am very pissed off about the theft of our civil liberties, but if we can't afford meals on wheels for old people, how can we afford this shit???

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
32. Well, we do, but...
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 05:16 PM
Mar 2013

if you're not doing anything wrong, there's nothing to worry about and besides it is to keep YOU safe.


OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)
19. I'm curious how far-right extremists are looking at this violation of the Constitution....
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 04:49 PM
Mar 2013

...I'd be willing to bet they're just as pissed about this as we are.

Additionally, how will the SCOTUS view the law once it reaches them? I can't imagine any of them would support this.

sarisataka

(18,626 posts)
21. I missed the part in civics class
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 04:50 PM
Mar 2013

where the Constitution may be suspended by administrative action...

National security my ass, why is this computer more dangerous if I am in San Diego than in my house? I can do the exact same things no matter where I happen to be. I expect this will soon be extended to include point of entry, thereby covering 90%+ of the US.

GoneOffShore

(17,339 posts)
23. The usual authoritarian defenders of this bullshit are missing.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 05:00 PM
Mar 2013

But I expect them to arrive any second with their "If you haven't done anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about" bullshit.

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
47. I expect a less nuanced approach.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:20 PM
Mar 2013

Maybe a funny cat pic with a "Derp" caption, followed by a ROFL smilie.

1monster

(11,012 posts)
28. Well then, I'm screwed. I live within five miles of the coast, which is within
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 05:07 PM
Mar 2013

that 100 mile swathe DHL is claiming.

I guess I live in a Bill of Rights Free Zone. Hmmm.... I can't find that zone mentioned anywhere in the Constitution. My copy must be defective or somethign.

WHEN CRABS ROAR

(3,813 posts)
35. "Your papers please" Remember that phrase?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 05:22 PM
Mar 2013

So where's the conservative outrage, or for that matter, where is the outrage from all of us?
Anyone have any solutions to the assault on our rights, what will it take wake up the American people?

Arcanetrance

(2,670 posts)
37. What really bothers me is this from the article.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 05:45 PM
Mar 2013

"The President Barack Obama administration followed up with virtually the same rules a year later. Between 2008 and 2010" Does anyone remember how much we protested under bush about his expansion of the police state but I don't hear much of a peep from our side anymore. We should be back in the damn streets.

KT2000

(20,577 posts)
42. Oh great -
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 05:58 PM
Mar 2013

Our homeland security people are bored to death and will likely jump on this new authority.
How can this be legal in the US.

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
49. Republicans recently proposed a bill
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:30 PM
Mar 2013

to ensure funding for the Border Patrol during the sequester.

Republicans unveil government funding bill that would boost military readiness, protect FBI
http://www.medicinehatnews.com/business/republicans-unveil-government-funding-bill-that-would-boost-military-readiness-protect-fbi-20130304.html

WASHINGTON - Republicans controlling the House moved Monday to give the Pentagon more money for military readiness while easing the pain felt by such agencies as the FBI and the Border Patrol from the across-the-board spending cuts that are just starting to take effect.

~snip~

After accounting for the across-the-board cuts, domestic agencies would face reductions exceeding 5 per cent when compared with last year. But Republicans would carve out a host of exemptions seeking to protect certain functions, including federal prisons and fire-fighting efforts in the West, and to provide new funding for embassy security and modernizing the U.S. nuclear arsenal. The FBI and the Border Patrol would be able to maintain current staffing levels and would not have to furlough employees.

Isn't that nice?

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
45. I would not be surprised if they modify it soon in this way:
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:09 PM
Mar 2013

20 miles surrounding any federal land or military installation.

Give em time.

TrogL

(32,822 posts)
46. That's it, I'm cancelling my training trip to California
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:11 PM
Mar 2013

I have no idea what DHS would consider "suspicious".

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
51. All this in the wake of the sequester?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:46 PM
Mar 2013

I thought programs were being cut back...and now this?

Where are the funds coming from? Are they cutting my Social Security so they can steal my MacBook?

Doesn't seem hardly cricket...

johnnyreb

(915 posts)
52. It's ok!
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:03 PM
Mar 2013

It's ok! More and more of the young people don't know the difference. Lots of 'em don't even think much of torture. 'Far as they know, it's always been this way. All them dead soldiers and sacrifices and stuff from days gone by-- shoot, that's just boring ol' history. Recall that the world is a battlefield now. And always remember that a SAFE American, is a brave American.

The terrorist threat that led to the declaration on September 14, 2001, of a national emergency continues. For this reason, I have determined that it is necessary to continue in effect after September 14, 2012, the national emergency with respect to the terrorist threat.

THE WHITE HOUSE, September 11, 2012.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/09/11/presidential-memorandum-continuation-national-emergency-respect-certain-
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