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Thu Feb 28, 2013, 03:44 PM

Is modern capitalism currently experiencing corruption or is capitalism corrupt by design?

Would capitalism in America experience a sea change for the better if more democratic initiatives were gradually introduced or is it doomed to the Iron Law of Oligarchy no matter what happens to it?

No real right or wrong answer here, just asking.
13 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Corruption is the Feature.
11 (85%)
Corruption is merely a Bug.
2 (15%)
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Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply Is modern capitalism currently experiencing corruption or is capitalism corrupt by design? (Original post)
HughBeaumont Feb 2013 OP
freshwest Feb 2013 #1
gollygee Feb 2013 #2
TreasonousBastard Feb 2013 #3
socialist_n_TN Feb 2013 #18
woo me with science Feb 2013 #4
HughBeaumont Feb 2013 #5
Nye Bevan Feb 2013 #6
Archaic Feb 2013 #8
Nye Bevan Feb 2013 #9
HughBeaumont Feb 2013 #19
Johonny Feb 2013 #7
DeadEyeDyck Feb 2013 #11
Johonny Feb 2013 #14
msongs Feb 2013 #10
Starry Messenger Feb 2013 #12
Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #13
FarCenter Feb 2013 #15
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #16
Mr. Blue Sky Feb 2013 #17

Response to HughBeaumont (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 03:49 PM

1. I say it's inherent as it discards other equations of value for profit.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 03:52 PM

2. I think it is corrupt by design

I think competition can be good, but the inherent corruption of capitalism has to be held back with serious regulation and an impartial government and court system or you end up with what we're seeing.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:01 PM

3. Of course it's corrupt at its core, but...

find a superior system that has succeeded by any measure.

It is a human system that will, if allowed, default to the lowest common denominator of human behavior. It has two saving graces, though-- that competition can prevent oligarchies from taking over, and that a democratic government is in there as a competitor when oligarchies do arise from unfair competition.



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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 06:09 PM

18. "...competition can prevent oligarchies from taking over..."

The last part of that statement is pretty much of a knee slapper too.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:05 PM

4. I used to think regulation was the problem.

More and more I am coming to realize that the underlying value system is what is horrifically flawed.

We are on earth a short time. Each one of our lives is priceless. Profit and competing for survival should not be the focus and meaning of our existence while we are here.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:13 PM

5. If we've learned anything from the last 50 years . . . .

1) Not everything should be about making a buck.
2) Government should never, EVER be run like a business; not even the most democratic business.
3) An economic system based on faith, competition over cooperation and war is doomed to crash like clockwork.

. . . . for those of us who knows what a crash feels like, that is . . .

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Response to HughBeaumont (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:13 PM

6. Norway, Sweden and Switzerland are capitalist countries.

Capitalism can work well.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:17 PM

8. Germany seems to be doing well too.

I'd be interested in hearing alternatives, but this structure should work fine if there are deterring penalties for abusing power and position.

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Response to Archaic (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:20 PM

9. Yep. Universal health care, low unemployment. (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 06:53 PM

19. No military shenanigans, no CEOs making 300 times what their workers do, better public transport.

It's because they have stronger and smarter governments and regulation . . . something we'll never likely see here.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:13 PM

7. all systems are corruptable hence the need for regulations

and swift acting responsible government. No system is essentially stable forever which is why you need constant vigilance.

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Response to Johonny (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:28 PM

11. but would not that mean that the system of regulation is

also corrupt?

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Response to DeadEyeDyck (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:48 PM

14. certainly your regulatory body can be corrupted

hence you can't just set up a regulatory body and walk away and pretend everything will be great forever. You need constant vigilance.

For example when we ended Jim Crow laws they set up a process by which to hopefully regulate against such laws in the future. But certainly such laws are creeping back into the election process and it is time to once again ask are we really regulating well our election process.

The world is forever transforming hence you need your government that actually wants to and is capable of governing. Which is the opposite of what Republicans promise.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:28 PM

10. depends on the greed level of the capitalists in question. sharing and caring is good nt

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Response to HughBeaumont (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:38 PM

12. Design is probably the wrong word.

It implies someone planned it. It's a mechanical feature that perpetuates itself, like bad code. You can regulate out the wazoo, but as long as you have a system where great wealth is concentrated, you are going to get wealthy people using their money to influence deregulation for greater profit.

If there were a system of rewards that were not wholly dependent on expanding profits, we might see this behavior begin to disappear. What could that system be called? Hmm, starts with an "S"...

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Response to HughBeaumont (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:45 PM

13. Capitalism is not a social model nor is it a form of government. The nations that allow capitalism

 

and are prosperous are, for the most part, Socialist.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:49 PM

15. Capitalism and democracy are two different things

Capitalism is a way to organize the economy.

Democracy is a type of government.

Each has several different subspecies. Some combinations work better than others.

But some types of capitalism would be compatible with non-democratic governments, such as a dictatorship or monarchy.

Some types of democracy would be compatible with socialism, although nothing has lasted very long so far.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:51 PM

16. Other

It's been a while since we were a capitalist society...we are a monopoly driven economy with central planning....by corporations.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 06:02 PM

17. Humans are corrupt..every system has corruption

because systems are designed to control human behavior. The selfish instinct of some humans will always find a way to circumvent and take advantage of those who submit to behave according to the rules.... regardless of the system.

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