HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » "Pope Benedictís han...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:46 PM

"Pope Benedictís handsome male companion will continue to live with him"


Pope's Living Arrangements Are a Little, Er, Weird
Andrew Sullivan thinks Benedict and male secretary are in 'some kind of love'

(Newser) Ė Andrew Sullivan thinks the strangest part of Pope Benedict's post-papal plans is that he will go on living with Georg Gaenswein, his longtime personal secretary at the Vatican, even as Gaenswein serves the new pope. "So Benedictís handsome male companion will continue to live with him, while working for the other Pope during the day," writes Sullivan at his Dish blog. "Are we supposed to think thatís, well, a normal arrangement?"

Citing previous articles on the subject, Sullivan concludes that Gaenswein is "clearly in some kind of love with Ratzinger (and vice versa)" and says the arrangement smacks more of Melrose Place than the Vatican. Click for the full post. Or head to conservative site Twitchy as it rounds up the fast-coming reaction under the headline, "Utter disgrace: Andrew Sullivan gay-baits Pope Benedict XVI."

http://www.newser.com/story/163589/popes-living-arrangements-are-a-little-er-weird.html

80 replies, 7968 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 80 replies Author Time Post
Reply "Pope Benedictís handsome male companion will continue to live with him" (Original post)
Liberal_in_LA Feb 2013 OP
TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #1
Liberal_in_LA Feb 2013 #2
ladjf Feb 2013 #76
GObamaGO Feb 2013 #3
Liberal_in_LA Feb 2013 #4
spin Feb 2013 #7
Beartracks Feb 2013 #31
closeupready Feb 2013 #49
rabid_byter Feb 2013 #5
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #6
Liberal Veteran Feb 2013 #8
Glorfindel Feb 2013 #10
Hulk Smash Feb 2013 #9
tpsbmam Feb 2013 #11
FedUpWithIt All Feb 2013 #20
tpsbmam Feb 2013 #21
AngryAmish Feb 2013 #40
BlueStreak Feb 2013 #30
pnwmom Feb 2013 #50
MadrasT Feb 2013 #12
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #15
Ruby the Liberal Feb 2013 #17
pnwmom Feb 2013 #46
MadrasT Feb 2013 #52
bettyellen Feb 2013 #53
pnwmom Feb 2013 #68
bettyellen Feb 2013 #71
MadrasT Feb 2013 #51
JI7 Feb 2013 #25
Canuckistanian Feb 2013 #13
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #16
BlueStreak Feb 2013 #32
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #18
KoKo Feb 2013 #14
SummerSnow Feb 2013 #19
LeftInTX Feb 2013 #22
get the red out Feb 2013 #55
840high Feb 2013 #23
JI7 Feb 2013 #24
hrmjustin Feb 2013 #26
JI7 Feb 2013 #27
hrmjustin Feb 2013 #28
TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #29
kenny blankenship Feb 2013 #33
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #34
pnwmom Feb 2013 #45
msanthrope Feb 2013 #59
Hekate Feb 2013 #35
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #36
magical thyme Feb 2013 #37
jambo101 Feb 2013 #38
pnwmom Feb 2013 #44
Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #57
pnwmom Feb 2013 #66
Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #77
pnwmom Mar 2013 #80
Raine1967 Feb 2013 #72
maryland native Feb 2013 #39
pnwmom Feb 2013 #43
MineralMan Feb 2013 #41
msanthrope Feb 2013 #56
MineralMan Feb 2013 #58
msanthrope Feb 2013 #67
MineralMan Feb 2013 #70
msanthrope Feb 2013 #73
MineralMan Feb 2013 #74
msanthrope Feb 2013 #75
bluestate10 Feb 2013 #79
Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #62
MineralMan Feb 2013 #64
Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #78
pnwmom Feb 2013 #42
Jeff In Milwaukee Feb 2013 #61
pnwmom Feb 2013 #63
Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #65
reformist2 Feb 2013 #47
reformist2 Feb 2013 #48
get the red out Feb 2013 #54
Jeff In Milwaukee Feb 2013 #60
Rex Feb 2013 #69

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:47 PM

1. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:48 PM

2. absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 03:35 PM

76. Aside from the irrelevant possibility that the pope might be gay, such an arrangement would

give the outgoing Pope almost total access to information about the new Pope's activities and policies. That also might be acceptable. However, I think it will be an awkward situation for the new Pope.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:49 PM

3. Only thing wrong with it is the supreme hypocrisy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GObamaGO (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:50 PM

4. yup

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GObamaGO (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:03 PM

7. It would be hypocrisy if they have a sexual relationship. ...

I see no major problem with the ex-Pope having a good looking male assistant considering his age and health. Nor would I have any problem with his having a good looking female assistant but that might go against Vatican rules.

I feel the Catholic Church does have a serious problem which could be rectified by allowing priests to marry as they did at one time.


The practice of priestly celibacy began to spread in the Western Church in the early Middle Ages. In the early 11th century Pope Benedict VIII responded to the decline in priestly morality by issuing a rule prohibiting the children of priests from inheriting property. A few decades later Pope Gregory VII issued a decree against clerical marriages.

The Church was a thousand years old before it definitively took a stand in favor of celibacy in the twelfth century at the Second Lateran Council held in 1139, when a rule was approved forbidding priests to marry. In 1563, the Council of Trent reaffirmed the tradition of celibacy.
http://hnn.us/articles/696.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to spin (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:41 AM

31. I can see that. Even if they ARE in love...

... as long as they remain celibate. Celibate is celibate, no matter which way you would swing as a non-clergy civilian.

======================

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:07 PM

49. Oh yes there is - he called gay marriage "ideology of evil"

or part of it. so yes, in this case, there very definitely is something very, VERY wrong with this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:52 PM

5. the Pope's VooDoo Doll.. this link is really way innappropriate, but really funny, sorta

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:53 PM

6. A Pope and his rentboy... n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:17 PM

8. I'm sure it is just his replacement Sith.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal Veteran (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:35 PM

10. Ah, yes, Darth Georg...the Force is strong with this one

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:34 PM

9. Ewwwwwww!!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hulk Smash (Reply #9)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:42 PM

11. Um, why "ewwwwww!!"

I don't understand that particular reaction. As a newbie, I suggest you explain this what appears to be really homophobic reaction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tpsbmam (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:24 PM

20. I saw it and believed it to be related to age difference.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FedUpWithIt All (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:34 PM

21. I dunno...thought it was a questionable reaction.

I mean, the whole topic kind of bugs me and I'm leaning toward the "the whole damn speculation is homophobic" kind of feeling about this (though also understand those who see possible real hypocrisy here).......but "ewwwwww!!" That one I don't get.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FedUpWithIt All (Reply #20)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 11:58 AM

40. ageist?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tpsbmam (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:39 AM

30. Isn't the Pope supposed to be celibate?

The fact that you played the "homophobic" card means that you believe they have a homosexual relationship, and that seems to be in conflict with the vow of celibacy.

I don't give a shit what any two grown, consenting men do. But it seems like monumentally bad judgment on the ex-Pope's part to adopt such an arrangement when the Church has had such a problem with improper relations by priests.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueStreak (Reply #30)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:07 PM

50. No, the poster mentioned homophobia because some of the comments in this thread

appear to be gay baiting. S/he wasn't drawing any conclusions about the Pope's orientation.

This isn't a case of poor judgment, much less monumentally poor judgment, no matter what rumors people have been spreading. Benedict is a fragile 85 year old in poor health, and he no doubt shouldn't be living alone. He also, like many older people, likes stability -- so having his former assistant continue to live with him makes perfect sense.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:03 PM

12. So fucking what

That is ridiculously homophobic and "love" does not mean they are having sex (for those concerned about his vows of celibacy)

I am no fan of the Catholic church but I am not seeing the big deal

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadrasT (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:57 PM

15. Hypocrisy is what we're calling out.

Pope Maledict spent so much of his time publicly condemning homosexuality, mustered the resources of the Roman Catholic Church to fight gay marriage, attacked the use of condoms in Africa, despite the HIV/AIDS pandemic, and now it turns out he has a little man-on-man action on the side?

I'll take hypocrisy for a thousand, Alex.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadrasT (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:04 PM

17. You don't see the hypocracy in play?

Lord have mercy.

You counsel/lecture/admonish 1.3 billion whatever people as the "Vicar of Christ on earth" that the people who were born gay's "lifestyle" is a sin/choice/abomination/whatever - all the while sucking cock behind closed doors - and your reaction is that this is not "a big deal"?

Really?



(Sorry for all of the /'s - couldn't decide on the right words, so used all of them that came to mind)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ruby the Liberal (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:59 PM

46. You don't see the progressive hypocrisy at play?

The willingness to laugh and gay bait simply because an 85 year old in poor health won't be living by himself? And the assistant is good looking?

If the Freepers were doing this we'd be all over it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #46)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:10 PM

52. It is really disappointing.

But that's DU for ya.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #46)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:14 PM

53. this. although I will say most here do not understand higher ranking nuns and priests routinely

have assistants of the same sex living in their household.
My aunt was a powerful nun and lived in a split level suburban home (called a convent) with two other nuns, one who did most household tasks and handled transportation, another for business matters.
My aunt built and ran a whole group of hospitals, so they gave her the trappings of a solid middle class life.
Instead of a salary.

Not surprised at the gay baiting here. As long as the target is hateful....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bettyellen (Reply #53)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:52 PM

68. Yes. It's pretty funny, really.

The cognitive dissonance. The Vatican thinks that by having the Pope surrounded by male assistants, they're keeping his image pure. (Remember the horror when the first John Paul's body was discovered by a nun!) And yet everyone here jumps to the opposite conclusion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #68)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:57 PM

71. Great point! As an aside, my aunt often complained about the priests....

sending laundry over to the convents and taking all the fun duties for themselves, treating the nuns as lesser beings. She was in Wisconsin all those years when all the abuse of deaf orphans was going on.
I think she was such an innocent herself she wouldn't be able to believe that abuse was happening. She thought a lot of them were entitled assholes, though. She knew she was just as good as the best of them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ruby the Liberal (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:10 PM

51. Jumping straight to what you state they are doing "behind closed doors" is a huge leap.

The man apparently has a same-gendered companion.

That does not mean he is gay, or that he is doing anything that contradicts his belief system or his ministry.

I just can't make that leap.

I am an atheist with no love for the Catholic church, I just am uncomfortable making all those assumptions and condemning the man.

So yeah, I don't see it as a big deal without more evidence than this.

I am mostly heterosexual, and have had extraordinarily close friends of the opposite sex, and have been through a lot of rounds of the office gossip mill chattering "OMG they are FUCKING!!1!!!". It gets tedious and it's wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadrasT (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:11 AM

25. doesn't mean anything, look at Strom Thurmond , there are many hypocrites

in fact some seem to go even more extreme to try to cover up their being hypocrites.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:21 PM

13. Somehow, I don't think so

This pope's vehement reactions to gays seems genuine. He practically obsesses about it, even when it's not called for.

It's almost like he's sending secret messages to the now-known gay conclave within the Vatican.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Canuckistanian (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:02 PM

16. Why would his reactions be so vehement?

Perhaps he's lashing out against his lifelong temptation?

Sorry, but I've seen the secretly-gay homophobe so many times it's become cliche. Larry Craig, George Rekers, Ted Haggard, and now Joseph Ratzinger.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to backscatter712 (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:41 AM

32. Exactly. The louder they rant against it, the more likely it is.

It is called projection.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Canuckistanian (Reply #13)


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:29 PM

14. Andrew Sullivan posting this? Well..

I guess if the post had a female secretary who was "consorting with him" and going to live with him while serving the new pope it would be viewed the same.

So....good on Sullivan if he's hearing what seems like liazon that the "Pope might be engaged in that could be an abuse of his position.

Whatever...I think there's more about this pope and his connections to high finance..than who he "beds or consorts in the day/night" with. But, given what's coming out about some of the priests, etc...... I guess, maybe it's something to report about.

I'm more interested in the Vatican's Business Arrangements finally being exposed along with what the Priests did to "young boys" that's important to know. If the Pope is in a relationship with an Adult male Priest.....that's different from abusing young boys...even though the pope is not supposed to be into sexual stuff.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:21 PM

19. Aww how romantic..

Rofl

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:57 PM

22. He is handsome



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LeftInTX (Reply #22)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:28 PM

55. That's what I thought too

Ol' Rat's Ass picked a "male assistant" that's easy on the eyes!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:05 AM

23. So what> UNREC.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:08 AM

24. he isn't bad looking, he could do a lot better than Pope Ratz



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JI7 (Reply #24)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:19 AM

26. I hope when I am 85 years old I have a handsome younger man with me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hrmjustin (Reply #26)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:21 AM

27. maybe if you become Pope

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JI7 (Reply #27)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:22 AM

28. They don't elect out gay men like me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JI7 (Reply #24)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:23 AM

29. Hmm, kind of Kennedyesque, but better. As a Catholic, it feels

weird to be discussing this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:04 AM

33. Did anyone stop and think that maybe a 85yro needs 24hr assisted living?

Nah. We're liberals - let's gay bait him. I am getting a good whiff of hypocrisy and for once it's not coming from the Vatican.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kenny blankenship (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:08 AM

34. +1. and sullivan is a right wing whore himself. get yer war on, andy.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kenny blankenship (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:56 PM

45. I did. He's obviously fragile and not in good health. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #45)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:39 PM

59. Really? Any reason why an Archbishop is needed for that? The old pope elevated his personal

secretary to Archbishop in December--all the better to monitor the conclave.

He has personal body servants to take care of his physical needs. Georg is for his retention of power.

Interesting how he changed conclave law last week, eh?

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20130222_normas-nonnullas_lt.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:21 AM

35. Ratzinger has always surrounded himself with a chorus line of handsome priests

Sorry -- was that too blunt?

I read about this years ago -- not a homely one among all of his assistants, all of them notably good looking, and Georg the handsomest.

>sigh< I really don't give a damn. It's not my religion, and as long as they are keeping their vows of celibacy it's not even hypocritical. It is more than possible for two people of the same sex to love one another chastely.

If it were not for the non-consensual sexual scandals swirling around the RC Church, I wouldn't even lift an eyebrow. But the scandals stink to high Heaven and low Hell. So....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hekate (Reply #35)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 11:07 AM

36. I'm with you on that last paragraph.

The scandals have been stinking up the Vatican for so long that as far as I'm concerned, they lost the benefit of the doubt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 11:31 AM

37. "the shadow pope" -- Sullivan's not gay-baiting

"He said he would quietly disappear to serve the church through prayer and meditation. But we now realize heís going nowhere. Heís staying in the Vaticanís walls, and retaining the honorific ďHis Holiness.Ē He will keep white robes. His full title will be Pope Emeritus. Far from wearing clerical black, returning to the title of Bishop of Rome, and disappearing into a monastery in Bavaria, heís going to be a shadow Pope in the Vatican. And this, we are told, was his decision:...

"If you were trying to avoid any hint of meddling, of a Deng Xiao Peng-type figure pulling strings behind the scenes, you would not be doing this. The only thing the Pope will give up, apparently, are his red Prada shoes. He has some fabulous brown leather artisanal ones to replace them."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 11:39 AM

38. Having a butler now means you're gay?

People of the Pope's station in life usually have servants and attendants aplenty,bit of a stretch to then say he's gay.
With the same logic the British royal family all have servants and butlers does that mean they are all gay's and lesbians?
I'm not against same sex relationships but to insinuate the Pope is gay just because he has a butler/man servant sounds like something from FOX..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jambo101 (Reply #38)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:54 PM

44. Oh, but see, if your butler is good looking that means you are gay.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #44)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:37 PM

57. A few points of fact. The man is not a butler, the man will no longer work for Bene but will work

for the next Pope. The staff that runs Castle Gandalfo where he's headed today is enormous, huge, the place is larger than the Vatican, it has an observatory. There are butlers and servants of every sort, the good looking guy is not one of those servants, the servants serve him.
What this is Mr Burns retiring, Smithers works for his replacement but moves in with Burns. And an enormous staff. It could mean much, it could mean nothing, but this is not his butler, the man will not work for him any longer, but they will share a domicile and those facts are the facts.
A look at where that chopper is headed today, just because of your posts suggesting Bene might 'live alone' and all that. Look at this place and meditate on the fact that both the Pope and his Sec get valets and personal attendants always. It is a palace. Splendor. Huge staff.
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/27/17106028-inside-castel-gandolfo-pope-benedicts-spectacular-temporary-retirement-home?lite

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #57)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:48 PM

66. Another fact. Benedict is 85 years old,

not an age when people like change, including of the people around them.

While the rest of the staff will be new, having this former assistant nearby will make the transition easier.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #66)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 09:25 PM

77. But his age is the only fact in what you said.

And the rest of the staff is not new, it is the staff of Gandalfo, which is the summer home of the Pope, Bene spends weeks and weeks there each year.
If he is in such need of familiar faces in his daily life, why is his friend going to work for the next Pope instead of attending to Bene all day?
His friend is going to keep his job at the office and also live with Bene, who spews hate at same sex couples. It is what it is, and word games that pretend this man is a 'butler' are an insult to our intelligence. For those of faith to expect respect while running around saying 'of course he can't live alone, he needs his butler' when the man has hundreds in his households and his companion is in no sense a butler is, I think, wanting to have one's host and to eat it too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #77)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 01:28 AM

80. What difference does it make what the title of this assistant is?

Butler, assistant, helper? Who cares?

LOTS of straight elderly people have younger, healthier, same-sex caregivers/assistants/companions, if they can afford them.

I don't know or care what the orientation of this 85 year old is. But the glee with which people are accusing him of being gay -- on the basis of a good-looking assistant -- is homophobic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #57)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:59 PM

72. As a total aside:

I find it funny that he's moving into a place called Castle Gandolfo -- It reminds me of Gandalf from Tolkien novels.

That said, I agree with your assessment. He's not a butler.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 11:57 AM

39. This thread sounds like conservatives wrote it.

Simply because the former Pope will be living with a man does not make him gay.

We should be careful not to imply that he is gay because of his living arrangements.

To make such a blanket guess at orientation is profiling, and that is wrong.

If the former Pope IS gay, his sexual orientation is much less important than the hypocrisy.

Let us not do what we accuse the right of doing. That is profiling.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to maryland native (Reply #39)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:53 PM

43. Welcome to DU, maryland native! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:47 PM

41. Oh for Jebus' sake! The Pope has a personal secretary,

and his retirement includes those services. This whole thing smacks of homophobia or something similar.

He will no longer be Pope. That's good enough for me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #41)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:36 PM

56. A personal secretary he elevated to Archbishop in December. Thus, the old pope's personal

secretary will sit in on the conclave for the new one.

That's actually the thing I find most interesting, as opposed to the gay-baiting. But Mr. Sullivan know his audience.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msanthrope (Reply #56)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:38 PM

58. I thought only Cardinals were involved in the

election of the new Pope. Let me go see.

Yup, just Cardinals.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #58)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:51 PM

67. Oh--he's not an elector. He's the guy who is going to oversee the changes the Pope made last week

to the Conclave law.....


That's right--Benedict decided to change conclave law last week.


http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20130222_normas-nonnullas_lt.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msanthrope (Reply #67)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:53 PM

70. Is there a translation of that somewhere?

I hate trying to gist out Latin. I can do it but I don't have the time today.

ETA: Never mind. I ran it through Google Translate, which gave me enough to understand it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #70)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 02:14 PM

73. The Vatican has not done an english translation that I have found.

I don't want to stray into CT theory, but I found it interesting that just last week, the Pope made changes to conclave law that were significant. There is no English translation of the changes--which threaten excommunication.

From reading the document, it seems that someone is to be in charge of the new "security" measures, just as someone was in charge of preparing the alternate quarters.

All rather interesting to me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msanthrope (Reply #73)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 02:18 PM

74. I'm only marginally interested in the internal politics

of the Vatican. I consider the entire RCC to be moribund, although it is taking its own sweet time in expiring. The irrelevancy of the RCC seems to be on an accelerating course, though, at least in the industrialized world. I cannot see it regaining much traction, either, in the future.

Who will be the next Pope? That's a matter of little concern for me. Doubtless, given the number of Cardinals this pope has elevated, it will be another conservative who takes that office. Ho-hum, I say.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #74)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 02:27 PM

75. What I found interestimg is the "dead hand" nature of these changes, and the draconian level of

punishment. It is an indicator of institutional fear--a symptom of death.

The next Pope will be hand-chosen by this one. And thus, Ratzinger will be not just Pope, but popemaker.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msanthrope (Reply #56)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 10:25 PM

79. The new Archbishop could be a shadow Pope.

The former Pope was known for doctrinal stances and for picking his line of successors.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #41)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:43 PM

62. Take another read. He does not retain the secretary in retirment, that is Sullivan's central point:

"he will go on living with Georg Gaenswein, his longtime personal secretary at the Vatican, even as Gaenswein serves the new pope.
"So Benedictís handsome male companion will continue to live with him, while working for the other Pope during the day"

That's from the OP. Just saying. Retirement does not include those services. That's why Sully arches his eyebrow at the co-habitation.
What it smacks of is hypocrisy on the part of a silken homophobe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #62)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:47 PM

64. I don't trust that writer to get anything right.

In any case, the homophobia reeks in what was written.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #64)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 09:35 PM

78. Homophobia reeks in the RCC. Sully's a gay man and a Catholic of course.

But what you said was that his companion was continuing his job with Bene, when that is not the case, this is verified. He is going to live with Bene but work at his old job, helping the new Pope castigate same sex couples. It is what it is.
So I as a gay man, don't see Sully as being homophobic, I see the Pope, his companion and the Vatican machine that maintains their vast closet of oppression as deeply and actively homophobic and intensely hypocritical. And I see the folks in this thread claiming that it's just the guy keeping his old job as butler so that Bene will not be alone in a studio apartment having to pour his own Ensure as being intellectually dishonest for the sake of an old homophobe and his adorable male long time constant companion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:53 PM

42. I fail to see how this is strange at all. He's 85 years old and probably shouldn't be living alone.

The Church hasn't had two popes in 600 years, so there is no precedent on how to handle the situation. Having his assistant continue to live in the residence with him sounds like a good solution.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #42)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:42 PM

61. Oh, you and your being all sensible and stuff

It's MUCH more fun to make snarky fun.

You're right, of course, but you're harshing my buzz!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #61)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:45 PM

63. Sorry for spoiling your fun!



I think it's that I've been around too many 85 year olds . . . .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #42)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:48 PM

65. But the notion that he'd be 'lving alone' is absurd. He's going to Gandalfo, a palace larger than

the Vatican. Then back to the Vatican. His Sec would have a staff of assistants himself, both would have valets. There will be cleaners, cooks, the vast garden staff, art curators, ...let's just be realistic here. Living alone is not a serious possibility at all.
It could mean nothing, but the entire 'he would be alone at 85' thing is out of touch with how attended to his Sec would be...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:59 PM

47. I'm not sure it's possible to be a serious commentator and a gossip at the same time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:04 PM

48. This Padre Georg seems to be the Pope's official hat putter-on-er!

I image-googled "Georg Gaenswein" and got a lot of amusing pics, like this one:

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:25 PM

54. Yea, that's normal

But I hope they have a lot of closet space in the new digs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:41 PM

60. This would make either a really good sit-com or a really good porn movie (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:52 PM

69. And so that means what exactly to Roman Catholics?

Right, nothing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread