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Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:26 PM

This Virginia Class Submarine…


http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/02/27/1644781/sequester-infographic/

23 replies, 2868 views

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply This Virginia Class Submarine… (Original post)
MrScorpio Feb 2013 OP
OceanEcosystem Feb 2013 #1
ellisonz Feb 2013 #4
bvar22 Feb 2013 #5
ellisonz Feb 2013 #2
ThoughtCriminal Feb 2013 #6
progressoid Feb 2013 #9
Glorfindel Feb 2013 #3
jsr Feb 2013 #7
HereSince1628 Feb 2013 #8
grahamhgreen Feb 2013 #10
Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #11
NoMoreWarNow Feb 2013 #12
Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #13
migsan Feb 2013 #14
lark Feb 2013 #16
apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #19
valiberal26 Feb 2013 #15
malthaussen Feb 2013 #17
timdog44 Feb 2013 #18
spooky3 Feb 2013 #21
dreamnightwind Feb 2013 #22
apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #20
Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #23

Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:32 PM

1. Does anyone think that the government would actually do that with the monetary savings?

 

That's the problem with all of these "you could buy this with that" graphics - just because a submarine could cost as much as, let's say, the amount it takes to feed 100,000 hungry people for a year, doesn't mean that the government would necessarily do that.

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Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:35 PM

4. But it could, that's the point.

I would also point out that we are something like $17 trillion dollars in debt with interest payments that exceed several hundred billion dollars a year. What the fuck do we need another submarine for? Are we planning to duke it out with the PRC in the next few decades? I sure as hell hope not.

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Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:41 PM

5. This comparison DOES completely destroy the argument...

...that we have no money, and can't afford these "social" programs that actually HELP Americans.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:33 PM

2. People say don't cut military spending, it will hurt the economy.

And to that I say: what could be more hurtful than throwing hundreds of billions of dollars to build weapons systems we don't need and which contribute nothing to society in the long run?

Spend that money on our people, our second greatest national asset (after our lands!)

Hey Department of Defense, you can cut more.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:58 PM

6. To those people I say

First of all, they are admitting that government spending creates jobs. Something conservatives claim not to believe.

Second, defense spending - especially on big ticket items like submarines, produce fewer jobs per dollar spent than almost any other form of government spending.

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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 03:24 PM

9. Yep

Just like their tired argument that FDR and the New Deal didn't end the depression, WWII did.
Of course, when confronted with the fact that WWII was a huge government funded jobs program and that we raised taxes on the wealthy to pay for it....crickets.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:33 PM

3. BIG DU recommendation...this kind of waste can't be exposed enough

the bloated, grotesque, obscenely expensive military-industrial complex is what is killing our country.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 03:06 PM

7. But but if we don't build 2 or 3 or 4 a year

the tools get rusty and people forget the recipe and nobody knows what button to push anymore!

Our national security depends on a well financed 24/7 defense industry with ample cost overruns.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 03:10 PM

8. But the jobs!! THink of the JOBS! Huh? Well, yeah I do suppose it COULD create jobs in WIC

Child Assistance, CDC, Head Start, Global Health and Development, and AIDS Relief.

But do those programs MAKE CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS like defense contractors do??????????

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 03:35 PM

10. jobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobs! I cna haz new job.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 03:44 PM

11. K&R Find & vote for new candidates that support sensible economic policy.

 

We are bankrupting ourselves with this stupidity.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:20 PM

12. let's not build it at all

 

what a freaking waste...

then there is the F35 boondoggle-- same thing as this submarine.

Yes, lots of jobs are involved in these big military projects, but it's not the most efficient way to create jobs, that is for sure.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:32 PM

13. But..but..we need them to protect Malibu from the mighty Taliban Navy!

You just know the Taliban has aircraft carriers hidden in those caves.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:35 PM

14. How about eliminating Foreign Aid

United States foreign aid
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In fiscal year 2011, the U.S. government allocated the following amounts for aid:

Total economic and military assistance: $49.5 billion

Total military assistance: $17.8 billion
Total economic assistance: $31.7 billion
of which, USAID assistance: $14.1 billion.
U.S. Overseas Loans and Grants (Greenbook), "Program and Account Reports". Accessed February 8, 2013.

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Response to migsan (Reply #14)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:50 PM

16. Those programs usually do some good

Why go after things that are somewhat useful in influencing hearts and minds instead of cutting billions of dollars from killing machines that are not needed ever and are already out of date?

Cutting these useless programs and closing some of the bases overseas would save billions and have no effect on the safety of our citizens or even the world. It would just mean fewer bucks for the Cheneys, Bushes and other rich repugs.

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Response to migsan (Reply #14)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:18 PM

19. How about we not. That money often goes to immunize children and build sewage facilities

and other much-needed infrastructure in the less-privileged countries than the United States. We need to keep those programs, and increase our own domestic spending on the poor and less-privileged among us at home. Let the Pentagon do with some budget cuts for once - the Cold War has been over for 20+ years.

BTW, welcome to DU...

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:50 PM

15. I do not support the United States...

 

Having the ability to project military force outside its borders in any capacity; least of all across the oceans. Call me a crackpot but having a military is like having a brand new circular saw... Sooner or later you'll want to use it when it's not needed. If we have to build warships then lets build some cutters for the United States Coast Guard; not submarines to carry missiles and weapons of war.

We don't need this submarine.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:52 PM

17. Creates jobs, eh?

The Electric Boat Company has a bit over 8,000 employees. You do the arithmetic.

-- Mal

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:12 PM

18. My uncle who is a right winger sent me sob story about taxes and cutting social programs.

So I did a little research, and finally got worn out. But this is the limited research I found.

This is a start on the “active” aircraft the USA owns and operates. And the costs are just the costs. Not the operation of these aircraft.

A-10 Thunderbolt II 345 12 million each in 1994 dollars
AC-130 Spectre 35 190 million each in 2004 dollars
B-1 Lancer 66 283 million each in 1998 dollars
B-2 Spirit 20 737 million each in 1997 dollars
B-52 Stratofortress 76 53 million each in 1998 dollars
B-52 Stratofortress 103 168 million each in 1987 dollars
C-12 Huron 65 6 million each in 1974 dollars (cheap?)
C-12 Huron 213 218 million each in 2007 dollars
Gulfstream C-20 7 (only) 36 million each in 1998 dollars
Learjet C-21 55 17 million each ? in recent dollars
Boeing C-22 3 22 million each in 1982 dollars
C-26 Metroliner 11 several million each
C-27J Spartan 13 (with 38 more) planned 53 million each in 2012 dollar
Boeing C-32 8 ?
Gulfstream C-37 11 47 million each in 2010

There are 35 more different air craft in the air force of which there are about 3000 individual airplanes (jets). For intance the F22 raptor of which there are 125 at a cost of 150 million each in 2008 dollars. And for instance, the F-16, for which the unit cost is 18 million each and there were 4500 of the built. Who knows where they are? And I have not touched the most expensive yet. And I have not included helicopters, nor what the Navy has, nor the Army, nor the Marines, nor the “secret” ops. Now you do the math on what I have done, just kind of estimate what the others might cost. Then lets get into the “boats” and submarines and their costs.
The navy operates 290 ships, 3,700 aircraft, 50,000 non-combat vehicles and owns 75,200 buildings on 3,300,000 acres (13,000 km2

The average cost of building and operation of a Nimitz class aircraft carrier in its life time is 22 billion with a capital B. And we 10 of those. The cost (to build) of the Virginia class fast attack submarine is 2.5 billion dollars with an annual operational cost of 50 million dollars. And we have 9 operational, 5 being built and 33 planned. Haven’t even scratched the surface of the numbers.

Now, tell me where our taxes go.

I tried to edit to indicate the numbers easier and wasn't able to, but you can figure it out.

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:54 PM

21. Please start a new thread, so more people can see this info.

Thanks for doing the research.

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #18)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:38 AM

22. + 1 trillion - nt

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:19 PM

20. Kick, Rec. n/t.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 09:14 AM

23. Another corporate welfare program that should be sequestered. Unaffordable and unneeded. n/t

 

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