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Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:48 PM

There are seven states with no restaurants

The federal minimum wage law has a loophole big enough to drive a serving cart through: tip credit. Because waitstaff receives gratuities from guests, the feds allow restaurant owners to pay the workers less than minimum. Ask any restaurant owner and he'll tell you: you couldn't survive in this business without tip credit.

This is why there are no restaurants in Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon or Washington, the seven states that don't allow tip credit.

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Arrow 64 replies Author Time Post
Reply There are seven states with no restaurants (Original post)
jmowreader Feb 2013 OP
Mass Feb 2013 #1
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #4
Cleita Feb 2013 #5
Mass Feb 2013 #8
Jumpin Jack Fletch Mar 2013 #55
jmowreader Feb 2013 #15
Cleita Feb 2013 #2
aristocles Feb 2013 #3
Cleita Feb 2013 #7
SoCalDem Feb 2013 #9
jmowreader Feb 2013 #21
cthulu2016 Feb 2013 #11
Taverner Feb 2013 #31
cthulu2016 Feb 2013 #6
MiniMe Feb 2013 #10
LeftofObama Feb 2013 #12
The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2013 #16
LeftofObama Feb 2013 #20
hedgehog Feb 2013 #13
get the red out Feb 2013 #14
jmowreader Feb 2013 #18
cthulu2016 Feb 2013 #19
Go Vols Mar 2013 #58
barbtries Feb 2013 #17
SunSeeker Feb 2013 #22
pipoman Feb 2013 #23
cthulu2016 Feb 2013 #24
pipoman Feb 2013 #27
riqster Feb 2013 #32
LadyHawkAZ Feb 2013 #33
pipoman Feb 2013 #35
jmowreader Feb 2013 #36
blogslut Feb 2013 #38
pipoman Feb 2013 #41
blogslut Feb 2013 #42
pipoman Feb 2013 #43
blogslut Feb 2013 #45
pipoman Feb 2013 #46
blogslut Feb 2013 #47
pipoman Feb 2013 #49
marble falls Mar 2013 #59
ErikJ Feb 2013 #25
Myrina Feb 2013 #26
Initech Feb 2013 #28
Tien1985 Feb 2013 #30
AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #29
jmowreader Feb 2013 #34
rhett o rick Feb 2013 #50
titanicdave Feb 2013 #37
abelenkpe Feb 2013 #39
mountain grammy Feb 2013 #40
Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #44
Pterodactyl Feb 2013 #48
leveymg Feb 2013 #51
Jeff In Milwaukee Mar 2013 #53
bkkyosemite Feb 2013 #52
Coyotl Mar 2013 #54
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #56
Matariki Mar 2013 #63
Duer 157099 Mar 2013 #57
trackfan Mar 2013 #60
Dash87 Mar 2013 #64
treestar Mar 2013 #61
Matariki Mar 2013 #62

Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:50 PM

1. Did I miss sarcasm?

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Response to Mass (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:51 PM

4. sarcasm detector broken?

 

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Response to Mass (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:52 PM

5. He was being sarcastic. n/t

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Response to Cleita (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:53 PM

8. Thanks. I got it after a while, but sometimes you see such weird things

even on DU that you have to check.

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Response to Mass (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 11:03 AM

55. I was confused as well

 

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Response to Mass (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:57 PM

15. Very much so

The best part: I print the biggest daily in Central Washington. Central Washington has a few things going against the restaurant industry: agriculture doesn't pay much, it's full of antigovernment 'don't tell me what to do' types and not only do they have no tip credit they have a $9.19 minimum wage. But not a week goes by that at least one new restaurant or bar opens. So obviously you can thrive in that business if you pay workers.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:51 PM

2. That's bullshit. You can always pay your wages and still be competitive.

Also, having wait staff who are surly or sick because they are so underpaid doesn't make for a pleasant dining experience for the patrons.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:51 PM

3. What? No restaurants in those states? Please clarify. n/t

 

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Response to aristocles (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:53 PM

7. ....



Those states have plenty of restaurants and do just fine.

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Response to aristocles (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:53 PM

9. Around here many "restaurants" are actually called "stores"

or sometimes "locations"..

ah, semantics

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:04 PM

21. Chain restaurants use those terms

The weird one: Wells Fargo calls its branches stores.

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Response to aristocles (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:54 PM

11. The OP is insulting RW arguments the cruelest way possible...

by taking them seriously. It is sarcastic.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:39 PM

31. Yes - although it took me a while

 

Critical thinking exercise, really

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:52 PM

6. excellent k/r

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:53 PM

10. Got any links for that?

I know there are restaurants in some of those places. California, Nevada, and Washington to name a few of them.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:54 PM

12. I must be missing something.

I've been to all of those states and I have eaten in a restaurant in every one of them.

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Response to LeftofObama (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:58 PM

16. You are missing something. The OP is being sarcastic.

Some restaurant owners claim they couldn't survive without tip credits. In the states the OP listed, tip credits are prohibited. Since restaurants can't survive without tip credits, that must mean those states have no restaurants.

And yet they do. I live in Minnesota. We have lots and lots of restaurants, which apparently manage to survive even though tip credits are prohibited.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #16)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:04 PM

20. Oops! Sorry about that.

I read it rather quickly, and I thought, "Huh?"

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:57 PM

13. Gleefully stolen and psoted to Facebook!

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:57 PM

14. Missing sarcasm thingie

Has to be because I've watched "Diners, Drive-ins, and Dives" go to all those states, LOL.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:01 PM

18. I figured it was obvious

No restaurants in Sin City? Come on...the only crack I've ever seen is the one in most of the Reagan Republicans' heads.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:03 PM

19. It is. Don't change a thing. Good OP

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #18)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 11:12 AM

58. It is obvious.

And a good post.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:59 PM

17. ok i know i'm gullible

i'm really glad i didn't dash off a quick response.

i actually thought that there had been some creative renaming of food selling establishments in those states.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:05 PM

22. LOL nt

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:09 PM

23. If a restaurant provides a venue

for a server to earn an average of $15-$30 per/hr in tips, why is it necessary for the restaurant to pay a minimum wage at all?..these are figures from an area with an average income of $48k. A minimum wage worker @ 40 hours would make around $15k annually, a server averaging $15 (very conservative depending on the restaurant) would make the $15k plus $31k in tips.. If I owned a restaurant in a state which required me to pay minimum wage and tips, I would require all tips turned in and split among the entire staff so even the dishwasher could make better than minimum wage..

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Response to pipoman (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:13 PM

24. Sounds like a stage fee in a strip joint

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #24)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:23 PM

27. Good point

strippers in those places are "independent contractors"..meaning they are responsible for their own tax reporting and are not eligible for benefits...it is more of a pain to staff IC workers, but could be better if the workers are contracted.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:44 PM

32. Most strippers I worked with got tips and an "engagement fee"

The smart girls and guys could do pretty well, depending on whether the place was owned by a "club owner" or a "cluboner".

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #33)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:06 PM

35. There are very specific rules for using IC workers

if you violate those rules, the employee by definition isn't an IC and is entitled to employee rights...looks like what happened here..it isn't that strippers can't be IC, it is that the company using their services were not acting within the rules..

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Response to pipoman (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:11 PM

36. Because most restaurants aren't like that?

The "$40 an hour in tips" is like the "$40,000 your first year" they sucker people into the transportation field with. It's possible only if you run 3600 miles a week - starting pay is 25 cents per mile in a lot of places. Go to a truck stop, hit the laundry room and ask guys how many miles a week they're getting...3000 miles makes you a god among drivers in today's environment.

Seriously: they need to pay a minimum wage because in a lot of places the tips aren't there.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:14 PM

38. $15-$30 per/hr in tips?

bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

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Response to blogslut (Reply #38)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 05:47 PM

41. My servers average just over $15 and

often exceed $20..

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Response to pipoman (Reply #41)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 06:21 PM

42. Then your servers are lucky

However, let's break this down. My guess is your servers probably work five hour shifts and five shifts a week. At $15/hr that breaks down to roughly $1500 a month and that's before taxes and before tipping out to bussers and bartenders.

Am I getting warm?

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Response to blogslut (Reply #42)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 06:42 PM

43. No bussers or bartenders

most are college or high school students. A few are 30-40 per week. Most are part time by choice or necessity..the hourly rate for part time including tips exceeds most other legitimate part time jobs. I have several applications per week, but most of my wait staff have been with me over a year and 3 have been with me over 5 years..not a lot of turn over..

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Response to pipoman (Reply #43)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 06:49 PM

45. Do your 30-40 hr/week servers average $15-$20/hr?

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Response to blogslut (Reply #45)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:18 PM

46. Yes because we

pay them minimum not tip adjusted minimum plus tips. They average between 12.50 and 17.00..sometimes more. The full time each have 6-8 tables and work during breakfast/buffet services. Breakfast and Buffet services have lower tip percentage than full service services. The full time also may work evening services up to 40 hrs. We are different than most restaurants in that the public restaurant business is secondary to the retirement community amenity aspect of our restaurant. When I began managing the restaurant the waitstaff were temps provided by a work release program from a halfway house...in a medium income retirement community..No, the first thing I did was hire nice local people who happened to be great servers..the server world is a sub-culture..it gets in people's blood..I recruited this type of servers..they know how to enhance their tips through outstanding service. I want my servers to make good money. Part of my job is to recover a tip from a dissatisfied customer, if I make it right, often the customer will leave a tip anyway.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #46)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:32 PM

47. You do realize that your shop is out of the norm.

Don't you?

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Response to blogslut (Reply #47)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:35 PM

49. Yeah..

regulations protect the public against predatory practices, in the process regulation sometimes stifles progressive policies.. even improvements in food quality in healthcare are difficult because regulations are much easier to comply with when using crappy boxed food..if you aren't serving boxed food inspectors don't know what to do.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #23)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 11:12 AM

59. That whole rant is based on a big IF. Why should I have to split my tips with the dishwasher? He...

gets insurance, free meals, smoke breaks and scheduled meal break. I haven't made "$15 t0 $30" in tips per hr in years. And no one else in this town does either. Like minimum wage is so great.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:18 PM

25. Notice they are states that never had slavery.

The tip credit is a legacy of slavery as it exists only in the US where we had a strong slave culture for 200 years.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:22 PM

26. No restaurants in Minnesota? Really? I'll have to tell my peeps there that ...

FAIL.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:25 PM

28. I live in California. So my friends that work food service jobs aren't employed?

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Response to Initech (Reply #28)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:36 PM

30. Sarcasm Tag Not Included n/t

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:26 PM

29. So how does it work in WA?

I never worked in foodservice, and I don't fully understand how this works. Is the minimum wage for servers here in WA the same as the regular minimum wage?

What about agricultural workers in this state?

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #29)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:59 PM

34. Min wage for servers is the same as for non tipped employees

I know harvesters are paid by the pound but not sure for equipment operators...last equipment operator ad I ran was offering $15.50 so that may not be an issue.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #34)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:52 PM

50. And I believe that most servers tip-out the other employees. nm

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:03 PM

37. Well, I live

in Washington State and I just had lunch at a local restaurant and there are restaurants all over the place so I think you are mistaken about Washington State at least.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:36 PM

39. sarcasm appreciated :) nt

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 05:30 PM

40. Amazing, they can not only survive, but thrive. Don't tell me the restaurant corps are lying to us!

I'm shocked and horrified.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 06:47 PM

44. Hell, in San Francisco all workers get paid a minimum of $10.55 and hour and we still tip

Last edited Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:58 PM - Edit history (1)

starting at 20% to the wait staff at these restaurants that don't exist.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:39 PM

48. Odd. Last time I was in Nevada, I ate at a restaurant.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:56 PM

51. That's a vodka martini, dry, very dry. ;-)

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Response to leveymg (Reply #51)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 09:43 AM

53. Indeed!

I think subtlety is a lost art. At least on the internet.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:12 PM

52. I lived in Coeur d'Alene ID five years ago

I went to a resturant and the waitress told me they paid her just over $3.00 per hour and she had to share her tips with the cooks. She said she could not make it. I said move to WA which was just across the border and she said she was going to. Coeur d'Alene is in the panhandle a few minutes from the border of WA and 30 miles to Spokane. But there was smaller towns just across the border that paid the minimum of over $9.00 an hour + tips. She was quitting to move. Idaho is very red state. Always has been for many years and is a right to work state. Which means literally you don't have a right to work and we can pay you slave labor wages. Benefits are none existant unless you live in Boise and are a Mormon. But that is another subject all together. Those Idaho potato's are no where to be found either because they are shipped elsewhere lol. Luckily I am a Californian through and through and now stranded in So. Oregon but hey 27 miles from the CA border. And Oregon does pay their staff at least minimum I believe.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 10:16 AM

54. What are you talking about?

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 11:07 AM

56. The sarcasm would have saved folks a lot of head scratching

well done sir, well done.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #56)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 03:24 PM

63. Anyone needing a sarcasm tag on this OP needs to do more to their head then scratch it

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 11:10 AM

57. This thread is scary!

There are way too many people who don't understand the post!

Either it is from reading too quickly and not thinking before replying, or some other kneejerk response. Or worse, a serious lack of a sense of irony.

In all cases, scary!

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Response to Duer 157099 (Reply #57)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 11:44 AM

60. +1 n/t

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Response to Duer 157099 (Reply #57)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 03:29 PM

64. THARS RESTERANTS IN COLIFORNA WTF!!!

THARS RESTERANTS I JUST WHENT TO ONE!!11!!!1!

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 11:49 AM

61. We should just do away with it

Or all the states that have it should - then pay a real wage.

They do it that way in Australia. Restaurants still are open and service is fine. There's no tradition of tipping, though some do tip, but it's on top of getting paid whatever is the minimum wage.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 03:21 PM

62. Bwahaha. Well played.

Here in Seattle there's whole city blocks with NOTHING but thriving restaurants.

Damn straight a restaurant owner should be paying AT LEAST minimum wage to their employees.

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