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Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:29 PM

Only 14, Bangladeshi girl charged with adultery was lashed to death

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/29/bangladesh.lashing.death/index.html


Darbesh Khan and his wife, Aklima Begum, had to watch their youngest daughter being whipped until she dropped.

Hena Akhter's last words to her mother proclaimed her innocence. But it was too late to save the 14-year-old girl.

Her fellow villagers in Bangladesh's Shariatpur district had already passed harsh judgment on her. Guilty, they said, of having an affair with a married man. The imam from the local mosque ordered the fatwa, or religious ruling, and the punishment: 101 lashes delivered swiftly, deliberately in public.

Hena dropped after 70.

Bloodied and bruised, she was taken to hospital, where she died a week later.

****

I literally have no words, just rage.

209 replies, 26586 views

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Reply Only 14, Bangladeshi girl charged with adultery was lashed to death (Original post)
politicat Feb 2013 OP
mike_c Feb 2013 #1
valerief Feb 2013 #60
BainsBane Feb 2013 #74
Uncle Joe Feb 2013 #148
demwing Mar 2013 #176
BainsBane Mar 2013 #178
Daemonaquila Mar 2013 #205
ljm2002 Feb 2013 #106
snooper2 Feb 2013 #122
lpbk2713 Feb 2013 #2
JI7 Feb 2013 #3
Aerows Feb 2013 #4
etherealtruth Feb 2013 #12
Aerows Feb 2013 #16
Raster Feb 2013 #82
misswizard1 Feb 2013 #123
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #5
leftynyc Feb 2013 #86
joeybee12 Feb 2013 #6
Nye Bevan Feb 2013 #7
AlbertCat Feb 2013 #38
Codeine Feb 2013 #62
leftynyc Feb 2013 #88
AlbertCat Feb 2013 #103
pecwae Feb 2013 #78
Recursion Feb 2013 #111
AlbertCat Feb 2013 #112
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #140
Initech Mar 2013 #184
Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #187
DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #8
riderinthestorm Feb 2013 #9
Bay Boy Feb 2013 #10
SwissTony Feb 2013 #15
Taverner Feb 2013 #11
whathehell Feb 2013 #26
Taverner Feb 2013 #31
whathehell Feb 2013 #45
0rganism Feb 2013 #69
whathehell Feb 2013 #126
HomeboyHombre Feb 2013 #129
0rganism Feb 2013 #132
Taverner Feb 2013 #145
whathehell Mar 2013 #196
Taverner Feb 2013 #118
whathehell Feb 2013 #124
Taverner Feb 2013 #146
whathehell Mar 2013 #195
Taverner Mar 2013 #208
whathehell Mar 2013 #209
leftynyc Feb 2013 #89
Taverner Feb 2013 #117
leftynyc Feb 2013 #121
snagglepuss Feb 2013 #119
Taverner Feb 2013 #144
snagglepuss Feb 2013 #164
Taverner Feb 2013 #165
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #141
d_r Mar 2013 #177
Taverner Mar 2013 #180
d_r Mar 2013 #185
mike_c Feb 2013 #53
whathehell Mar 2013 #194
LeftyMom Feb 2013 #152
redqueen Feb 2013 #158
whathehell Mar 2013 #193
aristocles Feb 2013 #13
ohiosmith Feb 2013 #17
Fumesucker Feb 2013 #22
cali Feb 2013 #23
Fumesucker Feb 2013 #25
whathehell Feb 2013 #48
leftynyc Feb 2013 #135
whathehell Mar 2013 #198
muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #29
whathehell Feb 2013 #34
AlbertCat Feb 2013 #41
JI7 Feb 2013 #46
HomeboyHombre Feb 2013 #128
whathehell Mar 2013 #199
Codeine Feb 2013 #19
whathehell Feb 2013 #35
AlbertCat Feb 2013 #50
cali Feb 2013 #90
leftynyc Feb 2013 #91
AlbertCat Feb 2013 #101
sulphurdunn Feb 2013 #68
cliffordu Feb 2013 #14
freshwest Feb 2013 #18
Ilsa Feb 2013 #42
freshwest Feb 2013 #44
jsr Feb 2013 #20
cali Feb 2013 #21
LiberalFighter Feb 2013 #24
Drale Feb 2013 #32
Bake Feb 2013 #64
Drale Feb 2013 #72
Raster Feb 2013 #83
LiberalFighter Feb 2013 #73
laundry_queen Feb 2013 #75
RKP5637 Feb 2013 #27
whathehell Mar 2013 #197
RKP5637 Mar 2013 #203
warrprayer Feb 2013 #28
Hulk Smash Feb 2013 #30
yourout Feb 2013 #33
CTyankee Feb 2013 #37
budkin Feb 2013 #36
polly7 Feb 2013 #39
WCGreen Feb 2013 #40
Bake Feb 2013 #66
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #81
WCGreen Feb 2013 #130
leftynyc Feb 2013 #93
Bake Feb 2013 #108
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #143
WCGreen Feb 2013 #163
Gorp Feb 2013 #43
JI7 Feb 2013 #47
renate Feb 2013 #49
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #51
Nye Bevan Feb 2013 #57
politicat Feb 2013 #71
rateyes Feb 2013 #52
virgogal Feb 2013 #54
hue Feb 2013 #55
Baitball Blogger Feb 2013 #56
Iggo Feb 2013 #58
Nye Bevan Feb 2013 #59
TheMadMonk Feb 2013 #61
JI7 Feb 2013 #63
leftynyc Feb 2013 #94
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #65
pnwmom Feb 2013 #76
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #79
pnwmom Feb 2013 #109
Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #191
raccoon Mar 2013 #190
Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #192
cali Feb 2013 #77
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #80
cali Feb 2013 #85
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #92
leftynyc Feb 2013 #95
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #97
leftynyc Feb 2013 #98
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #107
leftynyc Feb 2013 #110
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #114
leftynyc Feb 2013 #120
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #125
leftynyc Feb 2013 #134
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #137
leftynyc Feb 2013 #138
leftynyc Feb 2013 #139
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #150
leftynyc Feb 2013 #153
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #159
leftynyc Feb 2013 #160
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #161
leftynyc Feb 2013 #166
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #167
leftynyc Feb 2013 #168
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #169
leftynyc Feb 2013 #171
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #172
leftynyc Feb 2013 #173
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #174
leftynyc Mar 2013 #175
Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #179
leftynyc Mar 2013 #181
Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #182
leftynyc Mar 2013 #183
Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #186
leftynyc Mar 2013 #188
Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #189
politicat Feb 2013 #131
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #133
one_voice Feb 2013 #67
muntrv Feb 2013 #70
Raster Feb 2013 #84
leftynyc Feb 2013 #96
Raster Feb 2013 #99
leftynyc Feb 2013 #100
Raster Feb 2013 #104
leftynyc Feb 2013 #105
struggle4progress Mar 2013 #207
cali Feb 2013 #136
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #147
leftynyc Feb 2013 #149
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #151
leftynyc Feb 2013 #155
whathehell Mar 2013 #201
LeftyMom Feb 2013 #156
leftynyc Feb 2013 #157
kdmorris Feb 2013 #87
sadbear Feb 2013 #102
Recursion Feb 2013 #113
politicat Feb 2013 #115
Recursion Feb 2013 #116
HomeboyHombre Feb 2013 #127
Union Scribe Feb 2013 #142
myrna minx Feb 2013 #154
Quantess Feb 2013 #162
DeSwiss Feb 2013 #170
Ken Burch Mar 2013 #200
MelungeonWoman Mar 2013 #202
politicat Mar 2013 #204
Zax2me Mar 2013 #206

Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:33 PM

1. the power of religious insanity....

Terrrible.

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Response to mike_c (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:09 PM

60. +1000

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Response to mike_c (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:21 PM

74. religion is merely a way of justifying

dominion over women, rape, and murder.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #74)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:23 PM

148. Precisely BainsBane, this was just for the sake of power.

It's amazing how the drive for power can be so pathetic.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #74)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 07:50 AM

176. in your opinion, is that all religion does? / nt

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Response to demwing (Reply #176)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 12:03 PM

178. no, that's not all it

Religion is part of culture. It's role in societies is complex. But to imagine that such things wouldn't happen if not for religion is absurd.

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Response to demwing (Reply #176)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 12:28 AM

205. In mine, it does.

Organized religion is corruption incarnate, creating stories control and empower the chosen few. There is nothing positive it can offer that people can't work out as well or better without the nonsense.

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Response to mike_c (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:25 AM

106. I would amend your remark...

...to the power of patriarchal religious insanity.

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Response to mike_c (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:31 PM

122. This is why I don't have a problem with drones..

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:36 PM

2. More barbarism in the name of religion.




I swear, their calendar is about four centuries slow.


What a fuggen agonizing way to go. And a kid at that. OMFG


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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:38 PM

3. the fucking piece of shit imam and those who beat her to death should all be burned to death

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:38 PM

4. If there was sex at all

The poor girl was raped. And then punished for being raped. This world can be so full of evil it turns my stomach.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:46 PM

12. Ah, that is the beauty of life under Sharia (sarcasm)

The victim of rape is more likely to be punished than the perpetrator

http://www.aina.org/news/20081117111817.htm

"Local Sharia courts in Bangladesh regularly punish raped minor girls and women by flogging and beating them with shoes. Similar cases of punishing raped women are Mina v. the State, Bibi v. the State and Bahadur v. the State. Sharia courts in Pakistan have punished thousands of raped women by long term imprisonment.


You might think that such horrific barbarity cannot be the real Sharia law; that it is a misapplication of the law by ignorant clergy. Sadly, neither is true."

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:51 PM

16. Horrible.

I can't say anything more.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:24 AM

82. Well of course it's the young woman's fault...

...it was probably something she wore, or something she said or something she did. She asked to be raped. How dare she taunt and tease good, religious men. She is responsible for their actions.

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Response to Raster (Reply #82)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:32 PM

123. And she committed adultery by herself?

More like she was raped by her husband's brother and they needed to preseve the family honor.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:40 PM

5. Women and girls from Bangladesh should be given political asylum. nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:42 AM

86. It's not just Bangladesh

We'd have to open our doors to literally tens of millions of women and girls. I'm game but it'll never happen.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:41 PM

6. You're right...words fail me...14 years old...

What scum to do this to her.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:41 PM

7. Fuck Islamic fundamentalists.

These people disgust me.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:17 PM

38. Fuck Islamic fundamentalists.

Fuck Religious fundamentalists.

Why single out Islam? Well, it IS the biggest pain in the ass right now. But it alone is not the problem.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #38)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:14 PM

62. Because it really doesn't matter that the jesus freaks or whoever else used to suck just as bad.

Pretending that Islam isn't a pretty uniquely shitty religious force in the world right now is an exercise in profound intellectual dishonesty.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #62)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:45 AM

88. Amen to that

Trying to inflict the magical balance fairy makes me want to vomit. The reality is that if this had happened in the US, the perp would probably get the death penalty rather than the respect for the iman title he no doubt enjoys.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #62)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:20 AM

103. "Well, it IS the biggest pain in the ass right now."

Like I said....

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #38)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 06:14 AM

78. Perhaps because the story

is about Islam, includes Islamic fundamentalists, fatwa.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #38)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:28 PM

111. It's not even the only problem among Bengalis. Indian Bengalis are Hindu, and it's just as bad

Islam (or Hinduism) gives specific form to the problem but isn't the problem itself.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #111)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:35 PM

112. Islam (or Hinduism) gives specific form to the problem but isn't the problem itself.

A punto!

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:01 PM

140. Fuck all fundamentalists.

It doesn't matter which magical sky-daddy they pray to - the result is equally batshit. Religion poisons the mind and destroys rationality.

There are millions of fundie Christians over here who think the Handmaid's Tale is an instruction manual.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 03:30 PM

184. Fuck all fundamentalists of every religion.

Look at the Christian Taliban here - people like Bryan Fischer, Bill Donahue, Pat Robertson, Fox & Friends, Fred Phelps, Todd Akin, Paul Ryan, I could name 1,00s more. They want to see that kind of anti woman brutality happen here. It's fucking disgusting.

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Response to Initech (Reply #184)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 04:21 PM

187. I don't especially like the people you name,

but they do not want to stone women to death for adultery, flog rape victims, condemn people to death for homosexuality, and behead those who draw cartoons they don't like.

Posts like yours are somewhat of a DU tradition, but Islamic fundamentalists are much, much more barbaric than Christian fundamentalists.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:44 PM

8. I fully understand this is easy for me to say, and that doing it would be much harder

...but her parents should have died trying to save her. It's a parent's most important and sacred responsibility. Oh, and FUCK the piece of shit imam, and fuck the entire piece of shit village.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:44 PM

9. The horror and pain of this poor girl's last moments from some "justice" handed out by the imam



Just makes my heart sick.

K&R for more eyes on the story.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:44 PM

10. Can I assume that tomorrow...

...the man gets whipped?

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Response to Bay Boy (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:50 PM

15. Already happened...sort of...

Her punishment under sharia or Islamic law was 101 lashes; his 201.

Mahbub Khan managed to escape after the first few lashes.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

How f'ing surprising!!!!!

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:45 PM

11. Religion - let's do really evil things and call it "good"

 

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Response to Taverner (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:47 PM

26. Saying this is the fault of "religion" is like blaming "government" for Nazism.

14 year old girls are NOT lashed to death on the basis of

any "religion" in the industrialized west and we all know this.

Let's forget being pc and get real instead, because this kind of ugly brutality

has not been a "religious" matter in the West for at least

four centuries -- It's Fundamentalist Islam and the

backward, misogynist culture in which it thrives.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:52 PM

31. Christians used to behave this way. See: Hypatia.

 

YEs, the culture is misogynistic - because they practice a misogynist religion.

It wasn't too long ago when women couldn't be ministers at most churches.

Cultures change, but the longer they cling to Bronze Age myths the slower they do it.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:31 PM

45. Yes, but "used to" is what is key here.


As for blaming the misogynist culture on the misogynist religion,

I really don't think we know if the culture is the fault

of the religion, or the religion is the fault of the culture. It's kind of

a chicken and egg thing.

For what it's worth, Islam and Christianity originated much later than the

Bronze Age, but the more pertinent question might be why the Judaeo-

Christian West progressed beyond these brutal practices while the Islamic

East did not.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #45)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:34 PM

69. Islam is 500 years younger. Maybe it's just a matter of time?

It wasn't so long ago that hyper-religious people in the "Christian West" were doing some pretty awful things in the name of their god, too.

I'm hopeful that the prevalence of widespread global electronic communications will hasten Islam's progress toward general rejection of brutal and outdated customs by a century or two.

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Response to 0rganism (Reply #69)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:52 PM

126. Sorry, Bro...Mormonism, weird as it may seem, is, perhaps,

the youngest of all, and one does not see them calling for

the lashing deaths of 14 year olds.

Fair as we may all want to be, sometimes you've just got

to call it as it is. Reality isn't always politically correct.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #126)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 05:30 PM

129. I actually agree with your larger point

 

that religion in general is not inherently evil, and can be a force for good just as the religious believe.

But your example here isn't the best. See this for example.

On Sept. 11, 1857, in a meadow in southwestern Utah, a militia of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or Mormons, attacked a wagon train of Arkansas families bound for California. After a five-day siege, the militia persuaded the families to surrender under a flag of truce and a pledge of safe passage. Then, in the worst butchery of white pioneers by other white pioneers in the entire colonization of America, approximately 140 men, women and children were slaughtered. Only 17 children under the age of 8 - the age of innocence in the Mormon faith - were spared.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon106.html

I hate to give the religion haters more ammo, but facts do matter.

We better stick to Quakers and Amish, heh.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #126)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:53 PM

132. Mormonism, weird as it may seem, is a branch of Christianity*

hence charting its religious origins back to 0AD with the rest of 'em. And, as was observed, there have been some fairly recent atrocities associated with the westward expansion, let alone the colonization of the Americas.

The "Christian West" was hunting witches into the 18th century, with all the misogynist brutality that entailed. I'll hold out hope for the "Muslim Middle East" to do better until the end of the 21st or my expiration date, whichever comes first, thank you very much.

* Despite what the fundamentalists may say -- hell, they discount Catholics too.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #126)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:18 PM

145. The Mormons used to, and still occaionally commit, "honor killings"

 

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Response to Taverner (Reply #145)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 08:27 PM

196. Grasp at straws much?..We "used" to do many things -- We now have enforced LAWS against these things

Not, apparently, in Bangladesh.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #45)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:04 PM

118. Some still do: See Uganda

 

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Response to Taverner (Reply #118)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:36 PM

124. Uganda? Sure. I'll "see it"

When it becomes anything that could remotely

be called "the Judeo-Christian West".

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Response to whathehell (Reply #124)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:19 PM

146. Well they are American Christian churches, led by American Christian Missionaries

 

That sounds pretty "western" to me


Besides, when it comes down to it, it's like we're arguing who is the nice guy: Charles Manson or Ted Bundy?

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Response to Taverner (Reply #146)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 08:20 PM

195. Keep trying, LOL

The pc police should jump in and save you any moment now.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #195)

Tue Mar 5, 2013, 01:20 PM

208. Just admit it...

 

Ted Bundy, Mother Teresa, MLK Jr, St Francis, gay Christians AND homophobic Christians are all part of your club.

The sooner you do that instead of trying to define a "real" Christian, the sooner we can move foreward.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #208)

Tue Mar 5, 2013, 09:04 PM

209. Sorry, but you lost me at Ted Bundy, LOL.

not to mention St. Francis, gay Christians, MLK Jr, and our supposed "club"

Beyond that, I'd suggest you might want to "admit" a few things yourself,

namely that:


A. Your attempts at "equivalence" are lame and ran out of steam two posts ago.

B. Logic and debate are not your strong suits.

C. Posting while drugged or drunk is rarely successful.




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Response to Taverner (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:48 AM

89. USED to

Is that really such a hard concept. Why can't I call the people in Bangladesh who obey the iman the uncivilized barbarians they are without running into the pc police. And really, comparing not being able to be a minister to what happened to this girl is really sickening.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #89)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:03 PM

117. Some still do: See Uganda

 

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Response to Taverner (Reply #117)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:22 PM

121. That happens to be a perfect example

and they get help from Americans in that regard. Are those American preachers who support this given a free pass? We have no problem calling those Christian preachers in Uganda the animals they are and nobody feels they have to throw in some Muslim examples to make the point. Barbarians are Barbarians and yet every single one of these threads brings out the moral relativists who insist one is as bad as the other. And the same way I wouldn't want to be gay in Uganda, I would blow my brains out before I'd live as woman in a Muslim country.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:08 PM

119. No proof at all that assertion. Cultures can be completely resistant to change

which is why this barbarity continues. In Islamic countries, Islam reinforces the resistance to change because the core belief is that Truth is static and unchanging.

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Response to snagglepuss (Reply #119)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:14 PM

144. Christianity also believes in an unchanging God

 

At least in Calvinist and Evangelical circles

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Response to Taverner (Reply #144)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 06:01 PM

164. Not true. The essence of Christianity is that the Jesus changed God.

God was no longer I-am-what-I-am but Father. God was no longer a jealous and vengeful god but loving. God was no longer incomprehensible but became flesh and God was no longer a single mysterious entity but a trinity. Furthermore Jesus chose not to dictate his words which speaks volumes.

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Response to snagglepuss (Reply #164)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 06:19 PM

165. HERETIC!!!! BLASPHEMER!!!!

 

At least that's what many (Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, Calvinists, Mormons, etc..) would say

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Response to Taverner (Reply #31)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:04 PM

141. Women still can't be clergy in a lot of Christian sects.

Catholicism is but one example.

Personally, I think the batshittery that leads to barbarism is present in all religions - the only difference is that they're getting expressed more today in Islam. But that can change, in some cases very quickly. Hitler was able to use religion as one way to justify the Holocaust - he exploited religious hatred of those "Jesus-murdering" Jews...

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Response to Taverner (Reply #31)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 08:44 AM

177. actually I am going to disagree

Remember, Jesus came upon the mob following the Hebrew law to stone the adulterer's to death, and he said "let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone" and in essence threw that law out. So Christians by definition didn't kill adulterers. So Christians didn't "used to behave this way." I'm not arguing the misogynistic piece, just this specific example. The brutal murder of Hypatia wasn't a response to adultry it was the result of mob mentality during a time of political unrest (I'm not justifying that of course, just saying it isn't the same).

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Response to d_r (Reply #177)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 01:38 PM

180. Isn't that a variation of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy?

 

The Soviet Union constitution guaranteed freedom of speech too...

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Response to Taverner (Reply #180)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 03:41 PM

185. I honestly dont think it is

if christians follow the teachings of Jesus, that is vwhat he taught. thats the key to christianity and the difference in abrahamic religions. do all christians follow. understand. believe i. the teachings of Jesus? clearly not of course. but one can not blame a philosophy for a behavior that the philosophy itself is cleary against. in this particular example chritianity clearly does not endorse murder of adulterers. not that the raped girl was an adulterer to any reasonable person but that was the rationaole behind vit. islam does not have Jesus to temper the abrahamic tradition. and honestly he was a pretty nice guy despite how somke of his followers may act.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:43 PM

53. this was all about religion and it's poisonous influence....

Religion = insanity.

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Response to mike_c (Reply #53)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 08:18 PM

194. Sure..Keep repeating that and maybe it will become true.

It's about ONE religion of which I'm aware and that's Fundamentalist Islam

You know and I know it. If you want to keep playing politically correct footsie,

fine, but don't expect the rest of us to play along with you. .

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Response to whathehell (Reply #26)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:12 PM

152. American Fundamentalist Christians beat their kids to death.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/for-gods-sake/post/beating-children-in-the-name-of-god/2011/08/18/gIQAqDFGOJ_blog.html

The girl in this story died because her beating was so severe that the breakdown of her muscles (the same process that occurs in meat tenderizing) overwhelmed her kidneys. Her sister barely survived. Their great sin? They weren't doing well at their spelling assignment.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #152)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 08:13 PM

193. Please...A few abberant Americans of every & no faith do, but they are then CHARGED with a crime,

unlike in Islamic Fundamentalist countries, where it's "accepted" as "part of the culture"

and/or Sharia law.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:47 PM

13. Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum

 

True for all religions, without exception.

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Response to aristocles (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:02 PM

17. Really? And the last time another religion beat a fourteen year old girl to death was,.........?

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Response to ohiosmith (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:35 PM

22. It happens

http://abcnews.go.com/US/childs-death-sheds-light-biblical-disciplinary-teachings/story?id=14897901



Child's Death Sheds Light on Biblical Disciplinary Teachings

That same year, 7-year-old Lydia Schatz of Paradise, Calif., was "whipped" to death with rubber tubing for mispronouncing a word during a homeschooling lesson. She died from severe tissue damage and her sister had to be hospitalized.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:37 PM

23. You do see the differences though, I trust.

and please read the entire horrifying article linked. The statistics are gruesome.

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Response to cali (Reply #23)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:45 PM

25. Someone implied Christians don't do that sort of thing

I was just pointing out that they sometimes do.

I knew how badly some Muslim women are treated back in the sixties, my mother had a book about the abusive treatment of women under Islam and I read it when I was about fourteen or so, this is hardly news to me.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:34 PM

48. People do everything "sometimes", it's a question of

whether it's an anomaly or a pattern of the culture. Clearly

this is more common in Islam.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:35 AM

135. It's also pertinent to see

how governments deal with it. Does the US government (or any western gov for that matter) turn the other way when stuff like this happens (the rare times it does) or do they punish the religious person involved? In this case, you can be sure the iman is still strutting around and making judgements; The difference is how the societies deal with it and we all know the very un-pc answer to that.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #135)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 08:41 PM

198. Thank you...Another DUer refusing the pc directive of false equivalence.

and, no, of course they don't "turn the other way"...It's known

as 21st Century civilization, not 10th century barbarism.

I'm so tired of the pc bullshit.

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Response to ohiosmith (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:51 PM

29. This was religious, from earlier this month

Accused witch burned alive in Papua New Guinea

Hundreds of bystanders, including many children, watched and some took photographs of Wednesday's brutal slaying. Grisly pictures were published on the front pages of the country's biggest circulating newspapers, The National and Post-Courier, while the prime minister, police and diplomats condemned the killing.

In rural Papua New Guinea, witchcraft is often blamed for unexplained misfortunes. Sorcery has traditionally been countered by sorcery, but retaliations have become increasingly violent in recent years.

The death was the first sorcery-related murder in Papua New Guinea in a year, national police spokesman Dominic Kakas said.

Kepari Leniata, a 20-year-old mother, had been accused of sorcery by relatives of a 6-year-old boy who died in the hospital the day before.

She was tortured with a hot iron rod, bound, doused in gasoline, then set alight on a pile of car tires and trash in the Western Highlands provincial capital of Mount Hagen, Kakas said.

http://www.freep.com/article/20130208/NEWS07/130208011/Accused-witch-burned-alive-in-Papua-New-Guinea

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Response to ohiosmith (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:01 PM

34. Thank You. The "We shall pointedly scorn no religion but Christianity"

crowd are generalizing themselves into absurdity trying to avoid

the obvious. They're not comfortable hating on any religion but

Christianity, so this kind of thing throws them into a real

crisis of political correctness.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #34)


Response to whathehell (Reply #34)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:32 PM

46. it's like the Gun Control issue with Gun Nuts

who brought up the china knife attack as reason to oppose any gun control.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #34)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 05:25 PM

128. I've noticed that actually.

 

Libs have to be tolerant of all religions except the one most Americans (those who claim to be religious anyway) identify with.

WTF?

I think we can be tolerant of religion in general but attack the outrages done in the name of religion--like Christian gay bashers for instance. Yes, they should be called out, of course and with the strongest language, but the religion itself need not be held up to ridicule in the process.

It's like saying that all Catholics are part of the pedophilia scandal. It's an unfair overgeneralization.

Nevertheless, the abuse is outrageous and illegal and the guilty need to be held to account.

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Response to HomeboyHombre (Reply #128)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 08:45 PM

199. Yes, you'll likely see a lot of that here, unfortunately, though the gutsier truth tellers do seem .

to be emerging.

Welcome to DU, by the way.

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Response to aristocles (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:26 PM

19. Yeah, goodness knows American Xtian fundies are legally whipping 14-year-olds to death all the time.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:03 PM

35. Of course they are...They're all the same, dontcha know.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:37 PM

50. legally whipping 14-year-olds to death all the time.

"The Supreme Court also outlawed fatwas a decade ago, but human rights monitors have documented more than 500 cases of women in those 10 years who were punished through a religious ruling. And few who have issued such rulings have been charged."

Well they aren't "legally whipping 14-year-olds to death all the time" in Bangladesh! It's illegal. And ~50 cases (not all lashing to death) a year, or less than 1 a week is maybe not "all the time".... but still 50 too many.


Just because rational people have forced Christians to pick and choose more and throw out their most awful crap doesn't mean that it ain't in there. Had rational sensible people not stepped in, we'd still be burning witches. Ask Christine O'Donnell.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #50)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:52 AM

90. How about on a regular basis?

50 a year IS on a regular basis. And it is, to a significant degree, tolerated.

I don't think Christianity was so much forced to change as internal changes liberal schools of thought came, in time, to bring marked influence. Furthermore, the Enlightenment changed the trajectory of church and state.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #50)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:53 AM

91. Really? Would you stand for

that in your community. 1 girl a week getting beaten to death - I do consider that "all the time".

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #91)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:17 AM

101. I do consider that "all the time".

But it's still illegal.

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Response to aristocles (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:32 PM

68. Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum

Some of us certainly, but not most of us.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:50 PM

14. Nice religion they got there.

THEY should all be beaten to death.

Some things are beyond the pale.

These 'adults' whipped a child to death.

They have no souls.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:21 PM

18. Open season on women. What's next, being used for skeet practice?





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Response to freshwest (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:21 PM

42. If they coud figure out a cheap

way to launch them, I bet they would.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #42)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:30 PM

44. Or a real life video game, like shooting ducks at the circus. He shoots, he scores! A win!

What the hell is wrong with people. I gotta get away from DU for a while, I think, or trash more forums.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:26 PM

20. Truly evil assholes

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:30 PM

21. Islam, as practiced in too many places, is a brutal oppressor of women.

This child was brutally raped and then punished for that by being murdered.

The article says Sharia is illegal in Bangladesh. The Imam fuckwad the rapist pig fuckwad and everyone else who took place in this grotesque business, need to be punished severely by the state. Yes, I said punished. A message needs to be sent by the state that this will not be tolerated.

from the linked article in the OP:

Many months later on a winter night, as Hena's sister Alya told it, Hena was walking from her room to an outdoor toilet when Mahbub Khan gagged her with cloth, forced her behind nearby shrubbery and beat and raped her.

Hena struggled to escape, Alya told CNN. Mahbub Khan's wife heard Hena's muffled screams and when she found Hena with her husband, she dragged the teenage girl back to her hut, beat her and trampled her on the floor.

The next day, the village elders met to discuss the case at Mahbub Khan's house, Alya said. The imam pronounced his fatwa. Khan and Hena were found guilty of an illicit relationship. Her punishment under sharia or Islamic law was 101 lashes; his 201.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:41 PM

24. The only appropriate retribution in my opinion

is for the family to have the imam assassinated.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:52 PM

32. Not assassinated

dragged into the village square, shaved (I'm assuming they follow the no shaving part as many Muslims not just crazy ones do) and banished into the wilds. Thats they way it needs to be done, death is not enough for evil men like this, they must be humiliated.

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Response to Drale (Reply #32)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:20 PM

64. OK, shave him, strip him naked, and then beat him to death.

Banish him to the wilds and the beard will grow back. He might forage for food. He might survive.

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 09:58 PM

72. The point is that he survive

and that the rest of his life in miserable. Death is to clean and to easy, living in the wilds naked with little to no training how to forage for food. Maybe brand him so others know he is an outcast.

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Response to Bake (Reply #64)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:31 AM

83. strip him naked, wax him from head-to-toe, beat him with a Cure 81 ham...

...and force him to listen to endless hours of "The Village People."

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Response to Drale (Reply #32)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:12 PM

73. If that could be accomplished w/o too much opposition that would be great.

Do like the Indians would do. Or some I've heard. tie them naked to 4 stakes out in the desert with wet leather thongs. Do the same around his nutbag. Cover him with sticky sweet stuff all over him if there is anything out there that would be attracted and slowly kill him.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:30 PM

75. Don't forget the rapist. nt

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:50 PM

27. Ain't Religion GREAT!!!

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #27)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 08:36 PM

197. Again -- Like blaming "government" for Hitler..Could you be just a LITTLE more specific, LOL?

Oh well..I guess not everyone's blessed with the stones to call out pc bullshit when they see it.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #197)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 09:49 PM

203. LOL

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:51 PM

28. bastards n/t

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:52 PM

30. man, I know where the next drone should be going...

 

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Response to Hulk Smash (Reply #30)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:57 PM

33. I'd even chip in a few bucks towards it.

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Response to Hulk Smash (Reply #30)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:14 PM

37. boy, I wish we could do that...my granddaughter is 14....I would kill barehanded anyone who

dared to harm her...

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:12 PM

36. These people need to be wiped from the earth

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:19 PM

39. God, that poor little girl.

I hope there's a hell so they can rot in it forever.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:19 PM

40. All the more reason to suppress the Christian Right...

They would be doing the same if given half the chance.

This guy probably got caught raping this girl and then proclaimed she was a temptress.

Mother Fucking back wards ass holes.

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #40)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:26 PM

66. Overstatement much?

I know lots of fundie Christians. They would be horrified at this. I don't want them running the government as a theocracy, because I don't trust any theocracy. But your statement is a bit much.

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #66)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:13 AM

81. Give any fundamentalist of any religious persuasion political power, and people die.

Fundamentalists are by nature intolerant of others, and throughout all of human history have no problem killing those that don't agree with them.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #81)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 06:53 PM

130. Exactly my point....

Fundamentalism has always been able to tolerate people who don't toe the line 100% NOT!!!

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #40)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:58 AM

93. Fucking nonsense

I take a back seat to nobody when it comes to my disdain for Christian fundamentalists and their attitudes on women. Unless you have some evidence of your ridiculous statement, I'll just chalk it up to the moral relativism that seems to keep some liberals from calling barbarians barbarians without making stupid untrue comparisons.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #93)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:50 PM

108. Major case of false equivalency

But that's okay on DU.

Bake

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #40)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:08 PM

143. Exactly. They think the Handmaid's Tale is an instruction manual.

There are millions of right-wing fundies here in the U.S. who want to turn our country into their pet theocracy. Some of them want to bring back stoning of gay people, along with all the other Old Testament "justice."

Just watch some of Bryan Fischer's videos on YouTube and you'll see exactly what I mean. They're prevented from murdering people, but give them an inch and they'll become just as savage as those Islamic fundies.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #143)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:27 PM

163. I know exactly what you mean...

That was one of the best movie and book I have read. It energized my political nature after it went dormant back in the early 80's. The cynicism that I felt was kicked off and I became more liberal and more outspoken.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:26 PM

43. And I trust the man in the alleged affair went uncharged.

 

In my view, that was a married man raping a child, assuming it even happened in the first place. Either way, she wasn't the culprit. He was. It's just disgusting.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:33 PM

47. is anything going to happen to the Imam and those who beat her to death ?

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:34 PM

49. I suspect the rapist, the imam, and the doctors who lied on the autopsy are all doing just fine

I can't find anything online to update this story (it's from 2011). There are plenty of reports from when it happened, but I'm not having any luck finding out whether the rapist, or the imam, ever went to jail. I'm guessing that means the answer is no.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:37 PM

51. Sickening. We need a war against religion

 

Impractical, but then so is the war on drugs.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #51)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:00 PM

57. Well..... probably not *all* religion. I don't see my local Episcopal congregation

engaging in this kind of thing.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #57)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 09:56 PM

71. Not since 1700 or so, anyway.

The Puritans had their less than stellar moments, as did the early Anglican Church. Though that was as much politics as faith.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:40 PM

52. If there is a hell...

the perpetrators of this will be in the deepest, darkest part.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:43 PM

54. Oh my God---I'm heartbroken. The poor liitle thing.Animals.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:43 PM

55. Horrible!! Misogynous religions!! So what about the F'n "married man"///

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:44 PM

56. Primitive culture.

Can you imagine the horror of realizing she was given a death sentence.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:03 PM

58. They're killing women.

They're killing women.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #58)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:08 PM

59. And homosexuals.

The Koran specifies that gays should be executed.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Homosexuality

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:13 PM

61. How DARE they. Far better to WORK them to death...

 

...and keep the prettier ones as sex slaves.

Just like the RC Church did right into the eighties.

Others (good Christians all (just ask them)) did and do it in house. Imprisoning "wayward" daughters, or throwing them to the predators on the street.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #61)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:17 PM

63. are Catholic Church Sexual Abuse threads full of "muslims do it also"

crap ?

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Response to JI7 (Reply #63)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:01 AM

94. No - they don't

islam gets a pass here in a way no other religion does and considering the things done TODAY in the name of islam, it's pretty fucking sickening to watch it get treated like some child having a temper tantrum that just needs love and attention.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:21 PM

65. Hell, we have similar nutcases here....

Remember the exorcism where some kid suffocated from having a "holy man" sit on her chest?

In that case, the parents helped,....to hold her down....

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #65)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:23 AM

76. This isn't an isolated nutcase. This is pervasive, widely practiced, culturally approved

hatred toward women.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #76)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 06:33 AM

79. The guy was to recieve twice as many lashes but he escaped.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #79)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:22 PM

109. The guy was a rapist. His victim was a young girl. Their situations are not comparable. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #109)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 05:13 PM

191. No kidding....

It's funny how they feel like EVERYONE somehow insulted God but their own brutality is fine.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #79)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 05:01 PM

190. How convenient. nt

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Response to raccoon (Reply #190)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 05:17 PM

192. Wasn't it though?

I guess he just kinda vanished.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #65)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:47 AM

77. bullshit. utter bullshit. let me know when this happens in the town square of

any town under quasi official auspices. I suggest you read the whole sad, linked article.

False comparisons are truly stupid and ugly.

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Response to cali (Reply #77)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 06:55 AM

80. I did, this was an illegal act....

It was inspired by the same sadistic hysteria that fire and brimstone preachers tap into.

Just look at this crap:

http://egregores.blogspot.com/2012/05/death-by-exorcism-american-style-more.html

People who are religious consider the laws of their god to be superior to the laws of mere mortals.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #80)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:41 AM

85. This was an illegal act that is widely tolerated .

If you read the article you know that.

False equivalency in pursuit of an agenda is so dimwitted and dishonest.

Furthermore, trying to compare the exorcism deaths that you cite, is more bullshit. The vast majority of those are individual and not collective crimes. Many of the perps are severely and persistently mentally ill. There is no quasi official civil/religious imprimatur.

And yes, we have our share of fundy nuts, but they don't have the kind of authority to institute punishments like this.

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Response to cali (Reply #85)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:57 AM

92. I disagree...

When you are hyper-religious you consider the clergy to be the authority figure.

This act was NOT a government act.

Unlike in Saudi Arabia.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #92)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:06 AM

95. So - we can expect

this iman to have been arrested? You know, like he would be in this country?

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #95)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:15 AM

97. We will see. Assuming we get a followup to the headline....

You have to remember, the media is going to point out this crap to beat the war drums.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #97)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:40 AM

98. Because they're just itching

to attack Bangladesh? Gee, I'm so sorry that you apparently feel that news about the treatment of women is only used as a war ploy (with a Democrat in the White House) and not to bring attention to a very, very real problem.

And it's two years later...nothing happened to the iman and the married man escaped after a few lashes. I'm sure they're combing the country looking for him.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #98)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:31 PM

107. I'm telling you, it's designed to cause two reactions....

One is to stir up hate for Islam globally and the other is to accuse peacemakers of,...well,....you already know the rest....

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #107)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:25 PM

110. So - what's your answer?

To not report these stories because "some" people may use the info badly? Should we just ignore that these women live lives as virtual slaves because it makes you uncomfortable? Could you forget what happened to this child?

It's certainly not my fault that it was an iman who inflicted this punishment on a child - take it up with the religious leaders who think women are lesser beings who need to be forced into child marriages and who think holding hands is a death penalty offense.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #110)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:52 PM

114. You already hit on the answer. Civil Prosecution of the principles involved....

They can't think their law is the final word.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #114)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:17 PM

120. A bit pollyanna, dontcha think?

Civil prosecution works in this country as these deeds are against the law and religious leaders are not given latitude to inflict their insanity on others. What do we do in this case - Bangladesh - where it's only against the law on paper and the imans feel free to ignore it and don't face any penalty whatsoever? You would think the people would rise up but that doesn't seem to be happening - perhaps as a result of women having no rights and many not being able to leave their homes.

But let's just forget all that cuz it makes you feel icky and doesn't allow you to use equivalence with Christians or Jews. We'll sweep it under the rug for all those liberals who just can't stand one religion's adherents being called out for their disgusting behavior....y'know, unless it's Christianity they can bash. Pathetic.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #120)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:48 PM

125. So I guess the comparison of a "what if it was here" comparison doesn't work for you....

Like, "what if" the Yellowstone Super-volcano wiped out a big chunk of North America and triggered a new ice age and the Westboro Baptist Church used the event to set up shop in the absence of civil authority.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #125)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:29 AM

134. It wouldn't happen here

Our constitution forbids it. And really? Using a group of 10 lunatics to make your point when there are tens of millions of people who can get themselves in the same situation as this child did? Trying to use a distraction like this never-gonna-happen situation makes me think you really don't give a shit about what these girls and women go through every single day. In fact, it may be time to run through this thread and see if you even expressed something as minimal as dismay at what happened to this girl or whether you merely tried to change the subject.

Edited to add: As I suspected, not one word against what happened here. Just trying to excuse it by making the moronic claim that this happens all the time with other religions. This is me being totally not surprised.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #134)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 06:10 AM

137. LOL!!! I'm glad you find it offensive for someone to stand in judgement.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #137)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:08 AM

138. Sorry

I don't understand gibberish.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #137)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:52 AM

139. And here's another story

from the Maldives about a 15 year old rape victim:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21595814

Shall we play "which religion supports this kind of punishment" or can we dispense with the suspense?

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #139)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:13 PM

150. Linking all Muslims with Sharia is like linking all Christians with the KKK.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #150)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:39 PM

153. You're not even trying now

Nowhere did I say ALL Muslims. But be honest, would you have to even look up that this was an Islamic island? I sure didn't.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #153)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 03:27 PM

159. It's not surprising to find that stuff....

The media is filled with stories to keep the outrage level up.

It still doesn't change the point that this was not a state sponsored act.

It WOULD be in Saudi Arabia.

Then there is Iran where they hang homosexuals.

What I posted is about Christians in the US who have killed kids thinking they were possessed by demons.

We can thank religion for ALL of this death. Is it any wonder more and more people are deciding to turn away from religion?

INCLUDING in the Middle East.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #159)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 03:36 PM

160. That's a good point

I've long felt it would be a better world without any religion but that doesn't mean all religions are equally bad. My biggest beef is that whenever a story like this comes around this board, it gets swarmed by moral relativists who insist that Christianity is just as bad for women as Islam is and feel free to bring something totally unrelated into the thread in order to distract from the fact that fundamentalist Islam is a curse on women. This does not happen on threads that bash Christianity but I'll be on my guard now - I'll hit as many of those threads as I can in order to do the same thing and I'll continue to do it until the hypocrites cry uncle.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #160)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 03:54 PM

161. Fundamentalist ANYTHING is bad....

Just look at Punjab and the fundamentalist Sikhs. Parochial doctrine is enforced through fear and often brutality.

Not that Orthodox followers are "superior".

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #161)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 05:13 AM

166. It's only actions that make

one person superior to another, not what they believe in. If you can see what these policies do to women, why do you...not so much defend it but try and distract from the fact that at this moment in history, with over 1 billion Muslims, that those women living under fundamentalist Islam are in the most trouble? We hear these stories daily and I simply don't believe it's because someone in a newsroom is beating the drums of war. Nobody is making this stuff up - 14 year old girls are getting beaten to death and it's something that should have all of us screaming from the rafters. The answer is not to ignore the problem because women are in trouble in other places - the answer is to scream louder.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #166)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 11:53 AM

167. Mainly because I know people who are Muslim and they hate this crap as much as you.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #167)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:45 PM

168. So what?

What does you knowing some Muslims have to do with anything? You think that's a good reason to ignore what is happening to Muslim women all over the place? Because your friends feel it's personal? That's a piss poor reason to cower under the table and pretend things are just dandy for women in Bangladesh (and other Muslim countries) - because your friends might get their feeling hurt.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #168)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 02:06 PM

169. You obviously don't WANT to get it....

The people that did this are seen my most Muslims as a bunch of hicks. They don't condone it, nor do they think of it as a part of their religion any more than Christians believe Red Lobster serves an abomination.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #169)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 02:28 PM

171. Whatever

Are you going to give me a good reason to ignore this is happening or just whine about your friend's hurt feelings? Because frankly, the choice between caring about 14 year olds getting beaten to death and caring about hurt feelings is a fucking no brainer for most people.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #171)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 02:35 PM

172. You STILL don't get it....

They are as outraged as we are. It's not a matter of excusing it out of a sense of tolerance.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #172)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 03:55 PM

173. What's to get?

That you would rather distract from what happened here than deal with the fact that fundamentalist Islam is a scourge for women? That you'd rather whine about hurt feelings than agree that there are entire countries that treat their women like shit? That you would rather talk about anything else than what is right in front of you? What exactly am I not getting?

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #173)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 07:30 PM

174. Who the hell is talking about "hurt feelings"?

Oh yeah,...that's right,....it was you....

Feel free to rave some more at me for doing what you think I'm doing,...if you find it therapeutic.

Keep in mind that this is three days now that you have been doing it.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #174)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 07:35 AM

175. Actually only a 1/2 hour spread over

3 days. Did you not speak about your Muslim friends whose feelings are hurt because they don't agree with the imans and don't like getting lumped in with them (which nobody is doing)? Did you forget what you wrote so quickly? You know what, I'd like you to point to any post you have made on a thread bashing Christianity that it's not fair to lump all Christians in with the whackos. Then you may have a shred of credibility on this issue.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #175)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 12:34 PM

179. Let me try this again...

I never said their feeling are hurt. I said they were as outraged by this crap as much as we are. They are ALSO pissed off at these people because IDIOTS make the claim that this is part of their religion. It's not.

Got it? (probably not)

Reminder: Cassius Clay got out of serving in Vietnam because it was against his religion to kill even if the State orders you to during a time of war.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #179)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 02:24 PM

181. You don't have to explain

to me that the vast majority of Muslims don't adhere to sharia law. What you need to realize that with a billion people, even 1% of lunatics is an whole shitload of lunatics. And in some countries, they're actually voted into office. Asking Americans to turn a blind eye to that on top of the treatment of women in these countries is asking too much and I will scream it from the rafters every time there is a story such as the one that started this thread. Would you at least admit to the fact these stories are not isolated events and that far too many women are living lives of desperation in the name of Islam?

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #181)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 02:59 PM

182. I'm saying it's NOT in the name of Islam. It's by the will of religious fanatics.

Something that is not unique to Islam.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #182)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 03:27 PM

183. The same way the Phelps group

bastardizes Christianity, these clowns bastardize Islam...but make no mistake, they are Muslims and they have a boatload of support. The same way I don't call all Catholics (or even priests) pedophiles, I don't call all Muslims women hating terrorists.

Why do you feel compelled to go on these kinds of threads and try and change the subject? I don't see you doing the same with Christian bashing threads. Nobody here has the authority to attack any country with military so I'm curious as to why you do what you do.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #183)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 03:55 PM

186. I've already seen what you think I do....

I'm an atheist and consider ALL of it to be as valid as belief in The Great Pumpkin.

I also see the media making an effort to portray Islam as being a faith of a bunch of primitive savages based on the acts of a fanatic minority that take things out of context.

Christianity could be equally portrayed as such by lifting select articles.

Let's face it. Before 9/11 a majority of Americans never heard of Islam. They were laughing over hypocritical TV preachers having affairs. Most were talking about the differences between Christians and Jews and even among the Christians there were the Baptists, the Catholics, the Evangelicals, the Presbyterians, the Greek Orthodox, etc....even the Amish.

Then 9/11 comes along and Americans discover there is a whole part of the world that is different. "Different" is "bad" by default so the right wing that has been infiltrating their churches for years fed into their fears and told them all kinds of lies about Muslims including the idea that America is a Christian Nation and the Islamic World had declared war on us.

Oh, and look how terrible they are to their women!!!

Meanwhile, things ARE getting better.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #186)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 04:33 PM

188. But Christianity is bashed here

every single day. And I disagree about Islam being a mystery before 9/11...at least not to women who were screaming about the taliban's treatment of women long before 9/11. And like I said, nobody here has the power to send the military anywhere so I truly don't understand the need to change the subject or insist other religions are just as bad.

Maybe it's because I'm a NYer and my city has been attacked twice by fanatical Islamists (and never by Christians), I had a neighbor die in 9/11 and for what? I'm in and surrounded by landmarks all freeking day and now I have to deal with the national guard everywhere, bomb sniffing dogs and cops in riot gear (especially around Jewish and Christian holidays). Our lives were changed forever by fanatics screaming about Allah.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #188)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 04:49 PM

189. Well, ya know there are some people who say 9/11 was an inside job....

If that turns out to be true then all that hate towards that part of the world is misplaced.

Or maybe it's easier to keep that hate and just add another on top.

Then again, I guess Oklahoma could hate everyone from New York since Tim McVeigh came from there.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #107)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:19 PM

131. I did not post it to stir hate, nor to point fingers at peacemakers.

I am Quaker.

I am a feminist.

I am deeply involved in an international social justice project that aims to convince countries to grant political asylum to women and girls from places where they are systematically abused and to get the UN Women's Rights Treaty to be treated as binding.

Hena was not beaten because she's a Muslim. She was not raped because she's Muslim. Her imam did not order her beating because he's Muslim. She was raped and beaten and died because she lives in a culture that does not value women and girls. Her imam made that order because he knows nothing else. Her parents endured that order because they have no alternatives. Her rapist raped her because he knew he would get away with it, and her subjugation gave him a rush of power without significant consequences. Every faith on the planet has devalued women at some point in its history. We used to just endure it because there were no alternatives.

We now have alternatives.

I am deeply weary of half the planet being devalued for no reason other than fear and tradition. This can be changed and can be stopped because it has been done, but bending the arc of history towards justice requires that we care, that we who are comfortable are made less so. War will not bring justice -- it never does.

My pacifism doesn't mean I can stand by and allow these incidents to go unnoticed. If I fail to witness and call attention to injustice, I am equally responsible.

That's why I posted it.

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Response to politicat (Reply #131)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:26 PM

133. I've said we need the equivalent of an international women's shelter....

A place where women can flee a bad situation with the kids.

Imagine if that were available.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:27 PM

67. Horrifying..

and heartbreaking.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:45 PM

70. More evil perpetrated in the name of religion.

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Response to muntrv (Reply #70)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:39 AM

84. And especially in the name of the three abrahamic religious siblings.

Humanity's consolation is that if we as a race survive long enough, we will see the desert swallow it's creations and relegate them to the dustbin of history.

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Response to Raster (Reply #84)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:11 AM

96. Utter bullshit

Can you really make a comparison between Islam vs Christianity and Judaism (without the dishonesty of going back hundreds of years) in the treatment of women? Where it's tolerated not only in the religious community but also ignored by their governments?

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #96)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:44 AM

99. In. your. opinion.

And it isn't just the treatment of women... or gays... or scientists... or heretics or anyone else that dare challenge the religious status quo. The lists are long, very long.

"Can you really make a comparison between Islam vs Christianity and Judaism (without the dishonesty of going back hundreds of years) in the treatment of women?"

Really? Where are the female priests? Where are the female rabbis? Where are the female imams? Where are the female prophets? Where are the female popes? Inherently in ALL of the abrahamic religions, women are second-class citizens, and have held such derided status for as long as those religions have dogged humanity. In every government influenced by those religions, traditionally women have not had the same weight or worth as men.

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Response to Raster (Reply #99)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:47 AM

100. Are you seriously going

to compare not being able to be a priest (there are plenty of women rabbis - educate yourself) with what happened to this girl? Sentenced by a religious leader and beaten to death at 14? Seriously?

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #100)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:51 AM

104. so in the jewish religion there have always been female rabbis and female

holders of the priesthood? Of course not. Educate yourself.

Don't look now, but your islamophobia may be showing just a tad. Not all followers of islam believe in or adhere to sharia law. There are moderate, modern, compassionate muslims, just as there are batshit crazy fanatical and archaic christians and jews.

And no, I am not going to seriously compare...it's apples to oranges. However they are all fruit of the same abrahamic tree.

You have a nice day. Shalom.

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Response to Raster (Reply #104)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:55 AM

105. If it's Islamophobia

that allows me to be disgusted by the treatment of women in places like Bangladesh, I'm totally good with that. And I thought we were past the "they USED to suck" part of the program and are concentrating on the present. Is that too difficult for you to face? That some cultures evolve and some don't and I'm NOT okay with that.

Edited to ask: Are you a woman?

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #105)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 03:34 AM

207. Shilpi was forced to marry Mehbub Khan several years ago, under circumstances that suggest

he had raped her, so she may have some issues. Shilpi interrupted Mehbub's rape of Hena -- and dragged Hena back to her house, where Shilpi (together with two of her female relatives, Morsheda and Jahanara) beat Hena until she was unable to walk. Hena's father finally retrieved her from the Khan house. Shilpi then organized a large group of people, all but two of them Shilpi's relatives, who met in Shilpi's house around midnight to sit in judgment. It was decided that Mehbub and Hena should be beaten with wet knotted cloth: Mehbub was to be beaten by his own father, and (miraculously!) Mehbub immediately escaped --whereas Hena was to be beaten by Shilpi's sister-in-law Monimala and (unsurprisingly) did not escape but was beaten with fatal results

Note that Shilpi and her family had decided to beat Hena, and had administered a first crippling beating, well before the midnight meeting at the Khan's house from which issued the so-called "fatwa"

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Response to Raster (Reply #99)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 06:02 AM

136. No it's not. When it comes to the last century (and more) it's a matter of statisitics and

fact. duh.

There are lots of female priests in the Episcopal and Anglican Churches, albeit not in the RC, Greek Orthodox or Russian Orthodox Churches. In fact, the majority of Christian denominations ordain women.

Female Rabbis? Lots and lots of them. But you know this.

and no, in many denominations and in much of Judaism, women are not second class citizens. In fact, they are, in many, LESS second class citizens than in the culture as a whole.

Making shit up, as YOU are doing, is worthy of nothing but correction and contempt.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #96)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:20 PM

147. The only difference between these three is a matter of degree.

Islam has been a host to more violence and batshittery... today. The places could easily reverse over time.

Christianity could go batshit and Islam could chill out in as little as a couple decades.

There's nothing special about western religions such as Christianity and Judaism that makes them more civilized - it's still fairy tales about magical sky-daddies, just coming from a different Bronze Age book.

Religion is how Machiavellian bastards manipulate ordinary people into enabling and doing extraordinarily evil things.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #147)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:09 PM

149. A matter of degree?

That's how you refer to the differences between Christianity and a religion that is used to be treat women like slaves, where rape victims are tortured, beaten and killed? A matter of degree? And considering both Christianity and Judaism were born in the same place as Islam, neither is a "western" religion and your prediction of religions going backwards is totally absurd. While you're apparently willing to sit back and wait for Islam to "chill", millions of women are getting abused - how lovely of you.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #149)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:20 PM

151. Oh, and Christianity doesn't abuse women and treat them like property?

There's the Quiverfull movement, there's the constant stream of shit coming out of the mouths of Christian fundies about how women must submit to their husbands, there's that whole anti-woman movement known as the pro-life movement. Don't tell me that Christianity is even slightly enlightened on this matter.

And don't even get started with that whole pedophile priest thing - the criminality goes all the way to the very top, to soon-to-be-ex Benedict.

The problem isn't merely with Islam. The problem is religion.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #151)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:45 PM

155. Spare me this ridiculous comparison

Are the quiverfull people FORCED into having all these babies, to marry these men? We have women in government on all levels, we have women doctors, lawyers, teachers, whatever the fuck they want. I sure didn't have to check with a male relative before I woke up in the apartment that I pay for, didn't have to check with anyone before I left the house to go to work - how many women in Bangladesh can say that?

I'm well aware of the problems in the Catholic church - do let me know when the church gets to hand down a punishment like torturing a child to death and have the local governments stand by and let it happen. Until that happens, your comparisons are ridiculous.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #147)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 08:52 PM

201. Oh, yeah, sure.

except that the difference in "degree" is that between life and death,

sort of like that between a rumcake eater

and an alcoholic with the DTs.

Give it a rest. Christianity and Judaism OR the cultures

in which they are largely practiced ARE more "civilized" than to lash a 14 year old

to death on some bs "adultery" charge.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #96)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:47 PM

156. The backward woman hating nitwits nearest you aren't Muslim.

Unless I've missed any stories about Muslims in New York neighborhoods demanding segregated buses or harassing women for riding bikes *gasp* astride *gasp* in shorts *gasp!*

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #156)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 03:12 PM

157. Excellent-another poster

who feels perfectly comfortable with comparing harassing women about clothes with BEATING A CHILD TO DEATH and getting away with it? Did the rabbis involved sentence these bicycle riding women to beatings and death? Another ridiculous comparison. In Israel women are welcome in the military in the universities, in any profession they wish. Is that true in Saudi Arabia, in Bangladesh? Stop with these ridiculous comparisons - they do nothing to further your argument.

After this thread, I'm now compelled to visit every single Christian/Jewish bashing thread and make sure I bring up the latest atrocity committed in the name of Islam - if I have to go back more than 3 days to find one, I'll be shocked. Because that's what happens on this board time and time again - these stories bring out every single moral relativist who insist Islam is just fine the way it is and by the way, look at how awful Christians/Jews are. The comparisons are ludicrous.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:42 AM

87. Why no updates... article said they were arrested 2 years ago

But there is no further information about the trials of the men who did this.

That poor girl...

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:20 AM

102. And yet, the parents' faith is probably as strong as ever.

Nothing's going to change until they want it to change.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:43 PM

113. Simple curiosity: what drew you to this two-year-old article?

Not that this shouldn't be publicized or anything, just wondering.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #113)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:28 PM

115. It popped up in my RSS reader (via a tech blogger I follow), then disappeared from it.

I'd never heard of it, which is tragic. I watch these sorts of cases closely because they're datapoints for human rights demography. (Demographics are my thing.)

The fact that it didn't ping when it happened is a datapoint in and of itself. It means that two years ago, the world didn't care as much about how girls are treated. Now, there's awareness, and keeping these sorts of stories in the media and in consciousness keeps awareness and pressure on the UN, and us and the people who make decisions in other countries.

I posted it because it bothered me that the story slipped by us when it happened, and because it pinged and vanished, and because it's part of a larger pattern.

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Response to politicat (Reply #115)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:31 PM

116. Oh, same here: this is the sort of thing I would think I would hear about

And thank you for posting it.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 05:19 PM

127. The married man was given a stern talking to . . .

 

Sick, sick world.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:05 PM

142. And, just like that, the story of the girl is lost

as posters try to one-up each other in anti-religion rhetoric about America.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:45 PM

154. Oh my heart breaks.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:09 PM

162. Somehow I knew the religion in question was not...

not hindu, not buddhism, not even christian.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 02:09 PM

170. ...



RIP

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 08:49 PM

200. And the worst thing is, our right-wing warmongers helped enable these things by politicizing them.

Anything close to "honor killing" is a legitimate outrage, but the 'pugs help perpetuate them by using "concern" about the issue as rhetoric to justify invasions and the arming of various crazyheads.

Nice work, guys.

The blood of this young girl is on YOUR hands too.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 09:09 PM

202. Not that I don't trust CNN...

Is there any other source for this story or any follow up? The Imam isn't named, a cursury Google search of the parents turn up nothing. Is this a bullshit story meant to foment anti-muslim sentiment?

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Response to MelungeonWoman (Reply #202)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 10:28 PM

204. Google shows that The Guardian broke the story before CNN

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/04/bangladeshi-girl-whipping-fatwa

BBC reported when the doctors who falsified the autopsy were disciplined:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12883165

So thanks for the concern, but that's on the first page on the google search.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 12:45 AM

206. Notice how everyone reaches for their 'religion' broad brush?!

 

Whenever there is a negative - as is obviously this case - Muslim story?
Yea - we get it - bad things happen in all religions.
The fact is however that no religion gets 'defended' with the broad religion brush like Islam.
I'm not sure why - maybe many oppose Christianity on such a level that they stretch to tie any religious negative story to Christianity. No matter how absurd the stretch may be.
It could be that some are just afraid Muslims will be stereo-typed.
Probably a combination of these and other factors.

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