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Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:20 PM

 

Fixing Social Security

We can save Social Security. The Fica caps at 110,800, no one pays social security
above the cap, therefor millionaires, billionaires don't pay the FICA tax. If
congress just eliminated or adjusted the cap so that the high incomer's paid
their fair share into social security the fund would be running over. The republicans
want to raise the retirement age to 69, many that work with their backs that require
lifting or strong backs can't work until age 69, many don't live to age 69, is that their
way of fixing social security? One senator, Bernie Sanders favors raising or just eliminate it.
Congressmen never even talk about the subject because many are millionaires and will never
vote to tax them selves

22 replies, 1037 views

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply Fixing Social Security (Original post)
chase48 Feb 2013 OP
liberal N proud Feb 2013 #1
madville Feb 2013 #3
liberal N proud Feb 2013 #4
FogerRox Feb 2013 #14
madville Feb 2013 #19
madville Feb 2013 #2
chase48 Feb 2013 #5
FogerRox Feb 2013 #22
Cleita Feb 2013 #7
madville Feb 2013 #10
TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #9
FogerRox Feb 2013 #18
madville Feb 2013 #20
TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #21
FogerRox Feb 2013 #15
Cleita Feb 2013 #6
FogerRox Feb 2013 #17
pansypoo53219 Feb 2013 #8
Gorp Feb 2013 #11
chase48 Feb 2013 #12
Gorp Feb 2013 #13
FogerRox Feb 2013 #16

Response to chase48 (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:31 PM

1. The only thing wrong with Social Security is that the people who "borrowed" from it don't want...

to pay the money back to the fund.

Those people should be prosecuted and held liable for their actions.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:33 PM

3. The Treasury?

That money is all long gone, wars, Wall Street, etc have sucked it all up.

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Response to madville (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:35 PM

4. Congress allowed that to happen!

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Response to madville (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:36 PM

14. How about those US Treasuries.......... over 2 trillion......

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Response to FogerRox (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:09 PM

19. All the Treasury needs is money to pay the trust fund back

when the time comes. It's time for a debt limit fight in Congress BTW, since the Treasury is broke again.

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Response to chase48 (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:31 PM

2. I wonder if the maximum monthly benefit would rise as well

Say for instance the cap now is $110,000, they raise the cap to 1.1 million, a factor of 10.

The maximum monthly benefit is around $2,500 right now, will that have to increase as well? Like if someone was taxed up to the new 1.1 million cap for years would they then receive a $25,000 a month social security check.

I don't think they are going to get the cap raised without increasing theaximum monthly benefit a proportional amount. It could potentially drain the trust fund even faster than already projected, the rich would love that.

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Response to madville (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:31 PM

5. Fixing Social Security

 

Mad, eliminat the cap, adjusting what those making over the cap would receive to what the working poor could receive to take them out of poverty, cap what the rich could receve, the rich will never rely on their social security check, but the working poor will most likely retire into poverty, for instance my brother at his death was making over 50,000 per month on his oil business, now his wife receives that amount, I asked them before his death to donate his 2500.00 SS chk to chairity, how many very rich people rely on their SS chk, the Waltons are all Billionaires, Warren Buffet a Billionaire and 83 years old , will never need a SS chk, I'm saying adjust or remove the cap so the poor will not have to retire into poverty and the SS fund will be healthy

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Response to chase48 (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:37 AM

22. Capping benefits makes SS welfare, not wage insurance.

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Response to madville (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:36 PM

7. RW talking point.

They don't have to raise the monthly benefit unless for inflation, which is not a bad idea.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 03:21 PM

10. That's what will get proposed along with raising or eliminating the cap

All the rich people in Congress aren't going to go for raising or eliminating the cap without seeing some personal benefit from it themselves.

Should they raise revenues and redistribute the surplus to the poor, sure. Will it happen that way, not anytime soon.

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Response to madville (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 03:19 PM

9. You can increase payout while raising the cap and make the program more solvent

The trick is the rate of return which can be set up to diminish but never reaches zero.

I don't think it is that complicated, in fact I'm pretty sure it works like that under the current cap. While I pay more in and get more out than someone earning minimum wage the difference of increase in payout isn't dollar for dollar.

We can also utilize the tax code to recoup out of balance payouts.

I think the biggest issue with raising the cap is keeping politicians from blowing all that money and coming back wringing their dirty mitts about the deficit paying it back will create which then would generate interest in further cuts.

Does it really matter how big the trust fund is if it is simply used as an excuse to cut taxes into the general fund and spent like a drunken sailor has the purse? What difference does it make if the trust fund is stacked to cover even hundreds of years of payouts if the money is blown and there is no political will to make it right?

I think we need a solution to the part where our money goes into the general fund. Even if it goes into a "lockbox" the general fund has pay the service on the money or it doesn't grow and becomes the national equivalent of putting money in your mattress, which means there will always be "a stack of worthless IOU's" that someone will fight tooth and nail to not make right.

Regardless of all of that, we need to get it through our heads that the program was not designed with stagnant or worse declining wages in mind or rampant unemployment. The race to the bottom of wages and ever fewer jobs doesn't work with the formula and we have failed to adequately cope with the demise of the pension in our overall retirement system which has made Social Security the foundation of most people's retirement as opposed to a leg of it.

What we are doing holistically is making specifics difficult to unworkable because our systems and solutions work based off assumptions that are not actually operative and jig is up if it is widely understood that those assumptions aren't true because in the assumption lies the source of all faith in the system and players (who would by definition then be some lying motherfuckers if there has ever been such a thing) and that cannot be had even by some who have nothing but the best of intentions because of the natural and reasonable (even if misplaced, dangerously simplistic, and reactionary) fear of chaos.

Chaos maybe the opposite of order but it should never be mistaken for being its greatest threat (or conflated with it) which is entropy.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:48 PM

18. Do you even realize SS trust fund coinsists of 2.6 trillion in US Treasuries?

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Response to FogerRox (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:13 PM

20. Sure, I do

I also know we spend more than we take in and the Treasury is broke, seems like it's about time for a debt limit fight in Congress, time to kick the can once again and not actually fix anything!

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Response to FogerRox (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:54 AM

21. I sure do. Why do you ask and what do you think I was referring to?

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Response to madville (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:40 PM

15. Benefits are based on FICA, so increasing the cap increases benefits, AIME formula

The cap was raised from 110k to 113k this year, thats a 1.7% COLA.

http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/factsheets/colafacts2013.htm

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Response to chase48 (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:35 PM

6. You can't fix what doesn't need fixing.

SS has almost 2.6 trillion dollars socked away. Senator Sanders also talks about that.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:46 PM

17. Creatring lots of jobs means more FICA, and SS is good thru 2090. As per the SS trustees

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Response to chase48 (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:40 PM

8. america is a RICH country. the whole system has been fucked up royally.

like fraance befor ethe revolution. 'nobles', the wealthy, THE CHURCH did not pay taxes and it was left to the 50% to pay. the rich get benefits hands over fist + complain, while they USE america + do not pay their full weight. crying about fairness. give them a choice. pay taxes or get out.

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Response to chase48 (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 04:29 PM

11. For the millionaires and billionaires, FICA is like dropping a penny in a parking lot...

 

... and not bothering to pick it up. It's as regressive as you can get. We all pay the full percentage on our income (twice if you're self-employed or run a side business). Everyone should pay the same percentage and the employer percentage should be eliminated for anyone without employees under said business. At least kill the cap.

Capital gains, foreign or domestic, should simply be treated as regular line 7 income and FICA payments should be based on that as well. All other loopholes aside, those two simple changes would cure the budget woes and pump up the economy because Congress could actually afford to rebuild our infrastructure. Obvious defense boondogles like the F-35 wouldn't even have to be cut (although that one should be).

If Congress had the guts to make just those two changes, nothing more, SS income could easily provide at least double the current payouts and still run a massive surplus. We could actually provide the care and support our veterans deserve. Medicare and Medicaid could be expanded rather than cut. Education's obvious deficiencies could be overcome. The amount of money involved isn't even known because people like rMoney hide so much income in off-shore accounts. The bill could accomplish all of this in two or three pages using simple language and Congress critters might even consider reading a bill for once.

Then again, monkeys might fly out of my ass and it could start raining gold coins. All the roads could magically repair themselves by eliminating their own potholes and water fountains might sprout beer tap buttons. Nothing in the refrigerator would ever mold and the toilets would never need to be cleaned and would smell like roses. Cars would all suddenly get 5,000 mpg without modifications and fast food would stop making people fat. I'm not holding my breath for any of that to happen.

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Response to Gorp (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:00 PM

12. most people are uninformed about SS

 

if more people were more informed about their SS and maybe start writing their congressmen , just maybe they would get mad at the GOP and make them do something besides nothing, vote a few out , make a statement, Bernie Sanders is about the only congressmen that really fights for the working poor, injustices of congress, we need those repuks replaced in 2014

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Response to chase48 (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:10 PM

13. Most people spend their time in front of the "boob tube", and FOX is the worst of the offerings.

 

You aren't going to learn much, if anything, by watching that drivel. The collective knowledge of history in this country disgusts me. With all of the technology we have available, why are so many people completely ignorant?

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Response to chase48 (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:45 PM

16. SS is just fine, probably thru 2090, doesnt need saving.

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