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Mon Feb 25, 2013, 10:40 AM

KRUGMAN re: GOP: They want a fiscal crisis; they need it; they’re enjoying it.

To say what should be obvious: Republicans don’t care about the deficit. They care about exploiting the deficit to pursue their goal of dismantling the social insurance system. They want a fiscal crisis; they need it; they’re enjoying it. I mean, how is “starve the beast” supposed to work? Precisely by creating a fiscal crisis, giving you an excuse to slash Social Security and Medicare.


http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/24/tim-geithner-is-wrong-2/

22 replies, 2667 views

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply KRUGMAN re: GOP: They want a fiscal crisis; they need it; they’re enjoying it. (Original post)
kpete Feb 2013 OP
woo me with science Feb 2013 #1
truebluegreen Feb 2013 #2
Smilo Feb 2013 #3
freshwest Feb 2013 #12
Smilo Feb 2013 #15
freshwest Feb 2013 #18
Amonester Feb 2013 #16
Smilo Feb 2013 #17
freshwest Feb 2013 #19
Amonester Feb 2013 #20
Bandit Feb 2013 #4
pangaia Feb 2013 #6
drm604 Feb 2013 #5
0rganism Feb 2013 #7
Bake Feb 2013 #11
OnionPatch Feb 2013 #21
pansypoo53219 Feb 2013 #8
valerief Feb 2013 #9
Iwillnevergiveup Feb 2013 #10
DallasNE Feb 2013 #13
freshwest Feb 2013 #14
Martin Eden Feb 2013 #22

Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 10:41 AM

1. Psst.

It's bipartisan.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:31 AM

2. In Congress it is, because corporate Dems have bought into the business viewpoint.

Out here in the real world, many of us know the deficit is not the important thing, and the Repukes are just up to their usual nasty tricks.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:54 AM

3. The trouble is Dems will not

stand up and state what is wrong with the way repubs are doing things.

Sometimes I really despair.

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Response to Smilo (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 02:12 PM

12. Obama has stated what's wrong repeatedly, but no one's listening here or anywhere else.



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Response to freshwest (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 02:37 PM

15. Where in the main stream news was this?

It has to be ALL dems - they need to stand up as one party - the repukes manage to all get on board with their (lying) messages, but it something the dems are unable to do. Then they should take that message to the main stream media and keep repeating it and repeating and repeating.

They need to keep hammering and repeating that message - and every time something is said by the repukes it needs to be challenged and argued against.

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Response to Smilo (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 03:02 PM

18. It will never be in the mainstream news except in edited soundbyte to serve their owners.

Who are all extremely conservative billionaires.

Every time they try to get on media to refute, they are surrounded by others that either shout them down en masse, cut off their mikes, or talk over them, that's when they even allow them to be on the programs at all.

They have eliminated all strong liberal voices in order to give no alternative views to the far right and extreme right views. After the Newtown massacre, every network gave the NRA primie time to spew their viewd, they even allowed the GOA and Alex Jones air time.

But they won't let a liberal talk, except to make them look weak and confused in a rigged setting where they appear to be a foolish minority. No one who is put in that environment ever gets a fair shot, anymore than the victims of the Salem witch trials or the Inquisition - the minority against the mob.

This has been recounted many times on DU, and why Obama won't answer questions from Fox reporters anymore. We can't count on MSM to tell you the truth about Obama or Democrats.

Democrats do speak out, but those speeches and arguments take place in venues that are given no air time except on paid premium cable for those so inclined to hear the debates. And with a GOP in control of the HoR, they aren't allowed to speak except very occassionally. And even the Senate hearings are given scant coverage.

Follow how MSM is attempting (and obviously will succeed with people who rely on it to shape their opinion of Democrats) in belittling how Senator Warren spoke against Wall Street. What they are doing to minimize her is a small taste of what Obama has recieved since elected in 2008. But they gave full coverage and adoration to the Tea Party in 2010.





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Response to freshwest (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 02:37 PM

16. My guess is Smilo was talking about a minority of Dems in Congress

who may be sometimes as corrupt as those President Obama is referring to (OTOH, they have to 'fundraise' too...).

I've said it before and I'll say it again: nothing will ever really begin to change for the better, but only get worse, until a real public campaign-funding reform act gets agreed on and passed.

Unfortunately, the reality is, such reform will probably never be proposed, passed, and signed into law.

The corporate stranglehold is like an uncurable cancer.

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Response to Amonester (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 02:42 PM

17. The corporate stranglehold is like an uncurable cancer.

Ain't that the truth

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Response to Amonester (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 03:08 PM

19. And the cancer is within our neighbors who profit from this. American has more than one society.

One who believes and is benefitted by regulation, a social safety net to allow economic mobility, prevention of discrimination, environmental and labor protection, etc.

The other society benefits from deregulation, a labor force that goes begging, not cleaning up their pollution as it reduces their profit, and discriminates in order to protect their own. This is what we are confronted with, a dilemma such as the Founding Father were, where our values will show what way America goes.

At this juncture, it is not promising, but we can still what we can within our own sphere. Obama is calling us to do that, with no help as liberals and progressives years ago enjoyed with media presenting more views. Now they are slanted all to the libertarian and theocratic right.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 03:19 PM

20. While that society does form a clear majority of American citizens, the minority

keeps on destroying their ideals for personal gain, because... because they can.

They litteraly 'sit' on trillions of accumulated cash, which they use as a weapon.

Unfortunately, I can't see the day they will ever behave differently.

Empires grow, stagnate, then decline.

Always did, and will always do.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:04 PM

4. All part of the plan

Starve Government programs and then when those programs flounder because of lack of support the Republicans will say See government doesn't work...Just like they have done to the Post Office...

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Response to Bandit (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:46 PM

6. And public schools, starting at least with Reag...

Oh god, I just can NOT type that name.. much less fly into that airport.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:28 PM

5. So what can we do about it?

By far the American people do not support this. They are not representing us. Voting them out of office may be difficult with their gerrymandering. So what do we do? How do we get a government that really represents the American people?

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Response to drm604 (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:53 PM

7. not much, short term

We really screwed ourselves with lousy turnout in 2010. It'll take amazing results in 2020 and 2030 to undo the damage these jokers have caused in only 2 years. They're living proof that it's easier to tear down than build up.

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Response to 0rganism (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:25 PM

11. Tearing down is easy. It's the rebuilding that's hard.

You are exactly correct!



Bake

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Response to drm604 (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 03:55 PM

21. I've been waiting for a march on Washington

To save social security. I think we need to make a HUGE stink, for one thing.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:54 PM

8. hyped by the media that is the mouthpiece of the crapitalist pigs. we need an FDResque reset.

starting w/ CEOs + wall street.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:18 PM

9. They care as much about the deficit as they do post-born kids.

Not that such a thing as pre-born kids exists in reality, but in their rhetoric it does.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:21 PM

10. My God, the GOP is a different breed

More religion, more guns, more foreclosures, more poverty, more misery.

All boils down to less humanity. Our country is in a very shameful place right now.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 02:17 PM

13. Keep Telling This Story

The Bush tax cuts were always about undermining Social Security and Medicare -- programs funded by a payroll tax rather than the income taxes they slashed to set up the predicted deficit. Bush even tried directly to gut Social Security by privatizing some of it for younger Americans as the first step to elimination.

The reason Republicans go after the programs funded by the payroll tax is because there are no loopholes available to cut the employer paid portion of this tax like there is for the income tax, i.e., Facebook getting a negative income tax refund of $429 million for 2011. It is this employer paid payroll tax that is the true target of these Republican efforts. Since they can't go after this directly they need to first create a phony "crisis" that gives them cover to slash benefits that then reduce the amount of money needed and leading to a cut in employer paid payroll taxes as a stimulus to create jobs by putting American companies on a level playing field with foreign competition. It is the what's not said, in other words, that you have to pay close attention to.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 02:25 PM

14. It was plainly stated by the Raygun administration that their military spending was to create debt -

That would lead to dismantling all programs from the New Deal and social spending.

Yet he was voted in not once, but twice. And we're fighting the same fight as we had then - but with less power to resist.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 04:25 PM

22. I've been saying this for years

STARVE THE BEAST absolutely requires HUGE DEFICITS.

Social Security, Medicare, et al will never go away as long as there is money to fund these popular programs.

The Republican strategy is to make them unaffordable, and the only way to do that is STARVE THE BEAST of funding.

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