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Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:45 PM

While producing exactly nothing ....

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Reply While producing exactly nothing .... (Original post)
Scuba Feb 2013 OP
abelenkpe Feb 2013 #1
Nevernose Feb 2013 #2
CJCRANE Feb 2013 #3
progressoid Feb 2013 #4
Squinch Feb 2013 #5
Beartracks Feb 2013 #6
Vincardog Feb 2013 #48
tblue37 Feb 2013 #7
SmileyRose Feb 2013 #8
timdog44 Feb 2013 #9
kairos12 Feb 2013 #22
freshwest Feb 2013 #25
iemitsu Feb 2013 #38
Volaris Feb 2013 #27
tuvor Feb 2013 #10
Scuba Feb 2013 #11
tuvor Feb 2013 #12
Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #17
tuvor Feb 2013 #18
Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #20
AllyCat Feb 2013 #40
whopis01 Feb 2013 #47
iemitsu Feb 2013 #39
Dustlawyer Feb 2013 #41
Rozlee Feb 2013 #42
indepat Feb 2013 #13
timdog44 Feb 2013 #28
hfojvt Feb 2013 #43
indepat Feb 2013 #46
limpyhobbler Feb 2013 #14
BlueJazz Feb 2013 #15
groundloop Feb 2013 #23
LuckyLib Feb 2013 #16
patrice Feb 2013 #19
defacto7 Feb 2013 #21
rhett o rick Feb 2013 #24
OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #26
unblock Feb 2013 #29
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #32
Initech Feb 2013 #30
Blanks Feb 2013 #45
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #31
moondust Feb 2013 #33
blkmusclmachine Feb 2013 #34
tclambert Feb 2013 #35
n2doc Feb 2013 #36
DaveJ Feb 2013 #37
raouldukelives Feb 2013 #44

Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:51 PM

1. K&R nt

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:53 PM

2. Nice one

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:04 PM

3. Even if he crashes the economy...

then we the taxpayers bail him out!

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:15 PM

4. Yep. A too big to fail job creator.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:29 PM

5. And THAT'S the crux of most of our issues, isn't it?

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:29 PM

6. He most certainly does produce something.

Hubris.

Hey, that stuff doesn't come cheap.

And America is the largest manufacturer of hubris in the world.

=================

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Response to Beartracks (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:53 PM

48. He also "produces" decreases in the real economy by "harvesting" companies

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:34 PM

7. KnR nt

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:39 PM

8. k r and pinned

Good graphic. Thanks.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:46 PM

9. Exactly.

Those who produce nothing, contribute nothing. What the hell does unearned income mean anyway. It is unearned.

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 09:29 PM

22. I bet Rmoney could answer your query

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:35 PM

25. The difference between earned and unearned income is the entitlement to get it.

I can't sufficiently explain it, since there is much propaganda and self-serving rhetoric that i applied to these things by think tanks, media and even educational systems.

Those are work or earn are constantly being told they are not entitled to the benefits they earned by allowing part of their pay to be held back for pensions, etc. And they are working for somone else who can afford to pay them, so they are always on a lower rung in society.

The job creator myth is just a way of saying that one has money to pay others to do work for them. Thus they create jobs. But they don't do jobs, they do control the money that others must earn from them by their rules.

The tax system reflects this. It is always more lenient and generous with those are not making a living by working or earning money. It rewards and protects those who have the money to pay others. Or not pay them, as traditional social models have been discarded and the workers are no longer needed to continue the flow of income.

In the old days of aristocracy, entitlement to rule and possess was preserved by blood lines, war and religion. Now it's knowledge kept behind the castle walls of patents, deeds, stocks, mortgages and other representations of power.

Someone might be able to answer much better than what I am trying to cudgel an answer for as I have no experience in that world at all. I am sure that many of those managers worked to get to where they are but now they are removed from the common ways of making a living.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 09:14 AM

38. In one word, its capitalism.

Our system works for those with capital. Everything is geared to help and protect that class. The rest of us, who work, are simply resources in the economic scheme that is America. Human resources to be exploited and discarded when our usefulness is exhausted.
When viewed that way our treatment makes perfect sense. After all, what dignity is there in serving others?

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:20 AM

27. It sounds like money you didnt earn, egro, WORK FOR.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:00 PM

10. I'm not sure that all of the math adds up.

Is there a source for this? Who's this particular hedge fund manager?

The highest-paid, according to Forbes, is Ray Dalio (not the guy pictured), who made $3 billion in 2011.

And according to http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_does_a_teacher_earn, the least a teacher is paid in the US is $47,100, which means 86,000 teachers paid at the minimum rate pull in a bit over $4 billion, a full third over what Dalio made.

I would hesitate to share this unless all of the claims are sourced. On the graphic would be nice, too.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:05 PM

12. Thank you, Scuba. n/t

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Response to tuvor (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:34 PM

17. Where did you get that $47,100 number??

The article does not support that nmber

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:51 PM

18. From the article I linked to:

"...secondary school teachers ranged from $47,100 to $51,180 in May 2008;" The data's a few years old, so perhaps the number at the low end of the scale is actually higher.

More importantly, where did the author of the graphic get their numbers?

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Response to tuvor (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:59 PM

20. I see a $30,970 number

You said that the lowest was much high than that

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Response to tuvor (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 09:34 AM

40. Teacher wages have GONE DOWN here in Wisconsin.

And with that lower pay, they are expected to pay more for their retirement so this hedge fund manager has more money to steal, I mean play with.

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Response to tuvor (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:21 PM

47. You cut that quote a little too short...

"median annual wages of kindergarten, elementary, middle, and secondary school teachers ranged from $47,100 to $51,180"

That's median annual wages - not the range of annual wages.

It even went on to say that "..the lowest 10 percent earned $30,970 to $34,280;" and that "...beginning teachers with a bachelor's degree earned an average of $33,227 in the 2005-2006 school year."


So, looking at starting teacher salaries, the 86,000 would come to a little shy of $3 billion. So his math is not necessary that far off. Particularly when you consider that 86,000 is not much more than 1% of the teachers in the country - so it would be easy to find 86,000 that fell into the bottom 10% of salary ranges.

Not saying that he is accurate about the individual in the picture - not sure who that is actually a picture of - but at least accurate in the concept that there is a hedge fund manager out there getting paid more than 86,000 teachers.


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Response to tuvor (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 09:16 AM

39. Not all teachers make $47,100.

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Response to iemitsu (Reply #39)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 09:55 AM

41. In Tx they start at $25,000 to $30,000. Most are in the $35,000 - $40,000 range.

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Response to tuvor (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 10:03 AM

42. Can't be.

My son-in-law was a history teacher in Beeville, TX who also coached. He made 23,000 a year. Now, he's a vice principle at Ingram and still coaches. His salary just went up by less than a couple hundred a year. Is salary fixed by states or by school districts? Both Beeville and Ingram are very poor districts. Or maybe it's just sucky 'cause this is Texas.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:09 PM

13. This is compliments of a grateful right-wing corporatist government which promotes the interests

of the most affluent and large corporations at the expense of all others. Hank Paulson's 15% tax rate on a reported $5 billion income, or $750,000,000, rather than $1,750,000,000 at 35%, is a billion dollar taxpayer largess for just one taxpayer for just one year. Not to worry though: the domestic right-wing extremist group in Congress will get that one billion dollars back many time over by fu*king over seniors, the frail, and the poor.

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Response to indepat (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:38 AM

28. So he paid a 15% tax rate

because he made it trading on the stock market and it is considered unearned income, while not producing any thing other than $$$ for himself. And if that $5 billion had been a salary he would have been taxed as earned income. Probably why CEOs take a small salary (not that a few million is small) and the rest in stock options.
That would be how Warren Buffet ended up paying a smaller % in taxes than the people who work for him.

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Response to indepat (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 10:12 AM

43. well Obama and the Democrats could have let that rate go back up to 39.6%

In fact, they did, when the Bush tax cuts expired.

But then a whole bunch of Democrats voted for ATRA and Obama signed it, reducing that guy's tax rate down to 20%.

And Obama still calls that travesty a tax increase on the rich, because the rate went from 15% to 20%.

But since the rate actually went from 15% to 39.6% to 20%, it was actually a large tax CUT for the rich - thanks this time to Obama and the Democratic Party. But those lying jackweasels will tell you they gave $2.4 trillion in tax cuts to the top 20% for the sake of the MIDDLE class.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #43)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:53 PM

46. By jove, think we've got it

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:16 PM

14. k/r

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:16 PM

15. ...and a large share of the American populace would vote for this guy if he ran for office.

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 09:30 PM

23. Ha!!! Yep, right about 47% would.... just like they voted for his cousin the Vulture Capitalist


And if that guy were a better liar than the Vulture Capitalist he'd stand a fair shot of winning.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:30 PM

16. The true definition of obscenity.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:53 PM

19. Part of the price of decades of our in-attention, strategic distraction, & divide-and-conquer. nt

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 09:23 PM

21. Whether the numbers are exactly correct or not,

the sentiment is the same. I like to know that the sources are factual, but even if they are a bit off they still represent a huge and inappropriate chasm between those who rape the economy, thumbing their noses at the rest of life on this planet, and those who just want to be productive, seek their dreams, raise a family, and basically have a reason to live with dignity.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:24 PM

24. So what? Are you anti-American or something. America where the wealthy

are allowed to steal from the poor. Where the hell is Robin Hood when you kneed him.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:46 PM

26. Quit bashing success

and buy another Lotto ticket.

You could become rich, too.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:00 AM

29. hedge fund manager compensation and tax rates are completely insane, but ... "nothing"?

i agree with your message but it is undermined by the notion that a fund manager does nothing of value.

there's tremendous value in helping direct capital to the companies that can use it most effectively.

the problem is that a market that lets a handful of individuals siphon of so much money for providing this service is broken and in need of repair.

but that doesn't mean they aren't doing anything of value.

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Response to unblock (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 03:16 AM

32. it's a lotta value for them, not so much for the rest of us. actually negative value.

 

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:44 AM

30. Hedge fund managers = professional corporate criminals who pay no taxes.

It's legalized theft on a grand, grand scale.

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Response to Initech (Reply #30)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:54 AM

45. But look at the bright side...

It's your retirement funds that are paying his obscene income.

At least the FED isn't just creating money to pay him; like they do for the bankers.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 03:16 AM

31. kr

 

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 03:58 AM

33. Related interview and book.

Just What Do Hedge Fund Honchos Do For a Million Bucks an Hour?

Les Leopold's new book reveals that hedge funds make their super-profits by doing what the rest of us would call cheating.

~snip~

LL: I think the single best way to tame the beast is to move money out of Wall Street and into Main Street through a financial transaction tax -- sometimes called the Robin Hood tax or financial speculation tax. As you pointed out, Wall Street is much too large for our economy. It distorts manufacturing. It inflates CEO pay. It kills jobs. And most importantly, it's an ever-present danger to our economic stability.

~more~

http://www.alternet.org/just-what-do-hedge-fund-honchos-do-million-bucks-hour?paging=off

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 04:51 AM

34. It's called being a savvy businessman.

Dontchaknow?!

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:35 AM

35. He works very hard moving around large amounts of money.

Apparently it's very heavy. A million dollars in ones weighs a ton.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:24 AM

36. Oh, no, he produced something

Millions in campaign contributions. How else do you think the main candidates for Prez in the last few elections have been able to raise billions of dollars?

Of course, he sees it as an investment. And he is right.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:53 AM

37. What frustrates me is there are some people who admire these guys

I sit next to one of them at work. Instead of psychologically normal people who think about how to make money benefiting the world around them, he aspires to be like them for one reason only, because they have lots of money. It's even more ridiculous because there is zero chance he will ever have that opportunity, and that his life is more likely going to be ruined by the likes of these people.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:52 AM

44. He produced so much. He's like a milliion investors rolled into one.

Just the sheer amount of climate change deniers he has personally caused to be funded must be ambrosia to him. As it must be for anyone involved in Wall St, but to that extent they can only dream of one day attaining it.

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