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Sun Feb 24, 2013, 05:57 PM

Hamid Karzai orders US special forces to leave Afghanistan province over torture reports

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/24/afghanistan-us-special-forces-civilian-death
<snip>
US special forces in Afghanistan. Hamid Karzai's government has ordered the elite force to leave Maidan Wardak province over claims of killing or torture of disappeared civilians. Photograph: David Bathgate/ David Bathgate/Corbis

The Afghan government has ordered US special forces to leave one of Afghanistan's most restive provinces, Maidan Wardak, after receiving reports from local officials claiming that the elite units had been involved in the torture and disappearance of Afghan civilians.

US military officials have rejected the allegations but President Hamid Karzai, who convened a meeting of the Afghan national security council on Sunday, appears to believe the evidence was strong enough to demand US special forces leave Maidan Wardak within two weeks.
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Reply Hamid Karzai orders US special forces to leave Afghanistan province over torture reports (Original post)
malaise Feb 2013 OP
TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #1
malaise Feb 2013 #2
bemildred Feb 2013 #3
malaise Feb 2013 #4
bemildred Feb 2013 #5
TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #6
bemildred Feb 2013 #8
TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #14
bemildred Feb 2013 #17
Solly Mack Feb 2013 #12
bemildred Feb 2013 #15
Solly Mack Feb 2013 #16
progressoid Feb 2013 #9
bemildred Feb 2013 #10
TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #11
xchrom Feb 2013 #7
Peregrine Feb 2013 #13
Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #18
former9thward Feb 2013 #19
malaise Feb 2013 #20
bemildred Feb 2013 #22
malaise Feb 2013 #24
rocktivity Feb 2013 #21
FarCenter Feb 2013 #23

Response to malaise (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:07 PM

1. It's really hard to know who to believe here. But it's not a good development, regardless.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:19 PM

2. Indeed

I say bring all the troops home. This is going to get ugly

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:19 PM

3. Don't believe any of them, they all lie.

If I had to hazard a guess, we are doing our usual "training" of local stooges in these little conflicts, to defend our "interests" after our official troops leave, think School of the Americas; and Karzai, correctly seeing that such fellows located too close to him in too great number are a threat, wants them farther away, and besides it's good for him politically.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:20 PM

4. Good point

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Response to malaise (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:21 PM

5. Just trying to contribute.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:50 PM

6. This comes as we are making some delicate decisions on how many troops to leave

in Afghanistan, and where--I wonder if Karzai is trying to influence that decision in a certain direction?

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:08 PM

8. That's an interesting idea, but I don't know what to make of it.

I'm not sure what direction he would want to move it in, I mean I would think he'd want to keep US troops around for reasons of personal security, but that's a feeble sort of security for guys like him unless they are also obedient, and we already said we're leaving. And if he has some ambitious agenda of his own, and suitable backing, maybe he would want to get rid of us. What do you think?

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Response to bemildred (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:20 PM

14. I think he wants a decent troop presence, but also wants to be able to assert some control

over where they are and what they do--good politics at home, if nothing else. What makes me cringe in this case is his giving considerable weight to claims that we are committing war crimes. However true it might be, it doesn't help us in terms of our troops' broader relationship working alongside Afghans--may endanger them.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:27 PM

17. That could work.

I was thinking about that, negotiating for post-occupation ground rules and expectations.

I doubt that he cares a fig about our good reputation.

And he has to know our history in these things, so I don't see him being naive about how we operate.

But there are too many wild cards for me, or maybe I don't study it enough.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:16 PM

12. That's some food for thought.

I can see it. Sadly.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:21 PM

15. Hey Solly.

Yeah, totally lacking in originality.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:22 PM

16. Not at all.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:12 PM

9. There is probably a bit of truth in there.

It's likely that our troops were involved. And likely some of the civilians weren't civilians.

Regardless, it is a mess.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:14 PM

10. Yah, totally agree. nt

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Response to progressoid (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:14 PM

11. I am afraid of that.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:56 PM

7. Du rec. Nt

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:18 PM

13. Karzai isn't in charge of anything, F 'em

Ultimately he'll make a deal with the Taliban, probably to keep Kabul and give them the rest of the country. He is a stooge who cares about money and power not Afghanis.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:33 PM

18. For all the good we've done there, it's about 11 years too late.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:36 PM

19. I wish Karzai would order all the troops out of the country.

That seems to be the only way they will ever leave. Of Karzai knows he will be dead within a week after the troops leave so he won't do that.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:20 PM

20. Wasn't he hand-picked by the neo-cons?

I detest that scumbag.

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Response to malaise (Reply #20)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 09:19 PM

22. He goes way back:

Early career

After obtaining his Master's degree in India, he moved to neighboring Pakistan to work as a fundraiser for the anti-communist mujahideen during the 1980s Soviet war in Afghanistan. The Mujahideen were backed by the United States, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Iran, and Karzai was a contractor for the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) at the time. While Karzai remained in Pakistan during the Soviet intervention, his siblings emigrated to the United States.

Following the withdrawal of Soviet forces, Hamid Karzai returned to Afghanistan in early October 1988 to assist in the Mujahideen victory in Tarinkot. Hamid Karzai assisted in rallying Polpalzai Durrani tribes to oust the regime from the city as well as helped negotiate the defection of five hundred of Dr. Najib's forces.

American Special Forces and Hamid Karzai during Operation Enduring Freedom in October 2001.

When Najibullah's Soviet-backed government collapsed in 1992, the Peshawar Accords agreed upon by the Afghan political parties established the Islamic State of Afghanistan and appointed an interim government to be followed by general elections. Karzai accompanied the first mujahideen leaders into Kabul in 1992 following the Soviet withdrawal. He served as Deputy Foreign Minister in the government of Burhanuddin Rabbani. Karzai was, however, arrested by Mohammad Fahim (Karzai's current Vice President) on charges of spying for Gulbuddin Hekmatyar in what Karzai claimed was an effort to mediate between Hekmatyar's militia and the Islamic State. When he was released Karzai fled from Kabul in a vehicle provided by Hekmatyar and driven by Gul Rahman.

When the Taliban emerged in the mid-1990s, Karzai initially recognized them as a legitimate government because he thought that they would stop the violence and corruption in his country. He was asked by the Taliban to serve as their ambassador, but he refused, telling friends that he felt Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) was wrongly using them. He lived in Pakistan as among the Afghan refugees, where he worked to reinstate former Afghan King Zahir Shah. On the morning of 14 July 1999, Karzai's father, Abdul Ahad Karzai, was gunned down as he was coming home from a mosque in the city of Quetta. Reports suggest that the Taliban carried out the assassination. Following this incident, Karzai decided to work closely with the United Front (Northern Alliance), which was led by Ahmad Shah Massoud. In 2000 and 2001, he traveled to Europe and the United States to help gather support for the anti-Taliban movement.

As the United States armed forces were preparing for a confrontation with the Taliban in September 2001, Karzai began urging NATO nations to purge his country of Al-Qaeda. He told BBC "These Arabs, together with their foreign supporters and the Taliban, destroyed miles and miles of homes and orchards and vineyards... They have killed Afghans. They have trained their guns on Afghan lives... We want them out."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamid_Karzai#Early_career

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Response to bemildred (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:47 PM

24. A perfect puppet

One more handpicked goon.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:51 PM

21. What? Who does Karzai think he is?

The leader of a sovereign nation?


rocktivity

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:29 PM

23. This probably enables the Pashtun government to subjugate the 100% Hazaara population of Wardak

Discussing Afghanistan without discussing the ethnicities is a complete waste of time.

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