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Sat Feb 23, 2013, 06:32 AM

How can we actually stop abortion?

The right wing wants to ban abortion.

They have always wanted to.

But as they'll tell you if you suggest banning something they like...gun magazines that hold a whole 750-round ammo can, maybe...banning something won't get rid of it. Abortion being something they want to get rid of, how will they proceed?

First, they'll want all pregnancies registered.

Because women who don't want to keep it won't register, every woman will have to report for monthly pregnancy tests.

And they'll have to report weekly until it's born to ensure they're still pregnant.

Because other countries will still have abortion all women trying to leave the country will be tested. If you're pregnant you can't go. Better hope your plane ticket is refundable.

Because birth control causes abortions* no woman can use birth control.

And surgical sterilization aborts babies yet to be conceived* that will be banned too.

This is the thing: if the government can do this to "those women," why can't they do it to you?

* I know it doesn't but try telling them that.

37 replies, 2607 views

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Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply How can we actually stop abortion? (Original post)
jmowreader Feb 2013 OP
madville Feb 2013 #1
Zoeisright Feb 2013 #36
madville Feb 2013 #37
Freddie Feb 2013 #2
MANative Feb 2013 #3
LiberalLoner Feb 2013 #8
cali Feb 2013 #4
EternalOptimist Feb 2013 #13
cali Feb 2013 #14
annabanana Feb 2013 #20
cali Feb 2013 #21
jmowreader Feb 2013 #23
cali Feb 2013 #30
Rhiannon12866 Feb 2013 #5
cali Feb 2013 #6
Rhiannon12866 Feb 2013 #7
cali Feb 2013 #9
Rhiannon12866 Feb 2013 #12
HockeyMom Feb 2013 #28
Rhiannon12866 Feb 2013 #31
cali Feb 2013 #10
boston bean Feb 2013 #11
jmowreader Feb 2013 #24
NYC Liberal Feb 2013 #15
no_hypocrisy Feb 2013 #16
baldguy Feb 2013 #17
cali Feb 2013 #18
jmowreader Feb 2013 #25
cali Feb 2013 #27
treestar Feb 2013 #19
BlueToTheBone Feb 2013 #22
Still Sensible Feb 2013 #26
jonthebru Feb 2013 #29
freshwest Feb 2013 #33
RichGirl Feb 2013 #32
davidn3600 Feb 2013 #34
Initech Feb 2013 #35

Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 06:48 AM

1. The right to an abortion and to own firearms

Have both been upheld by the Supreme Court. It's wrong to ban either IMHO.

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Response to madville (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 02:29 AM

36. What a stupid post.

Listen, sparky - a woman's right to make her own medical decisions is inherently private. Firearms, on the other hand, kill other living, breathing, sentient human beings needlessly and recklessly. One needs to be controlled. The other does not. If you can't tell the difference you are incredibly ignorant.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:24 AM

37. I support both abortion and gun rights

I just recognize that abortion is terminating a living thing and I am fine with that, I believe it should be more accessible and free of charge like other forms of birth control.

Over a million abortions every year and around 40,000 gun deaths including suicides. All can be viewed as tragic or unfortunate circumstances, sometimes that is the cost of freedom for others.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 06:55 AM

2. Women are not actual human beings in their world

Just incubators for the sacred fetus.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 07:01 AM

3. It has nothing to do with the "sacredness" fo the fetus...

and everything to do with exercising pure patriarchal control to maintain social and economic power and thus, money, in the hands of the dwindling population of old white men.

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Response to MANative (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 07:44 AM

8. +1

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 07:03 AM

4. I so dislike boogie man stuff, when the reality is bad enough.

None of your claims has a chance of being realized barring a complete takeover of this nation by the xian far right.

The real danger to women accessing abortion is what is ongoing and has already happened, resulting in a "two Americas" re abortion: For women who live in certain states, abortion is accessible and has no restrictions. In far too many states, getting an abortion has become an onerous, humiliating process. If you're middle class and up and have resources or access to resources, you'll be able to access abortion services. Poor? Live in Mississippi, Arkansas and a couple of dozen other states? Tough shit.

Your post is bull. It focuses on shit that's far removed from what is a desperate reality for many women and doesn't recognize the real threats. That's why I so despise this kind of crap.

Focusing on what the right wing is really trying to do re abortion: Transvaginal probes, onerous waiting periods, absurd standards for clinics and docs who perform abortions and setting up cases to overturn Roe.

And no, birth control is not threatened. I know people get a thrill from worst case implausible, scary scenarios, but not in one state legislature in the country (that I can find) is there any proposed legislation banning or restricting any form of birth control.
99% of the women in this country avail themselves of birth control, and in this case, big pharma is an ally with clout.

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 08:17 AM

13. not threatened?

 

Your line about birth control not being threatened jumped out at me. You are patently wrong. Numerous institutions and private companies are suing the federal government to exempt them for including birth control in their insurance plans. (Shows their stupidity because plans covering it are cheaper). A woman barely scraping by NEEDs the coverage. To say it isn't threatened demonstrates a dangerous lack of information.

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Response to EternalOptimist (Reply #13)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 08:31 AM

14. I was specific. I was discussing legislation banning or restricting birth control

And I'd bet a great deal that I am extremely well informed on this subject. I am fully aware that private companies and religious institutions as well as those claiming religious affiliation are attempting to exempt themselves from paying for b/c. That does not change the status quo.

You are the one demonstrating a lack of knowledge. The ACA will actually extend more coverage despite the law suits.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/health_insurance_and_managed_care/health_care_reform/contraception/index.html

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 10:41 AM

20. Reductio ad absurdum is only absurd until it's true.

Who would have thought it possible for our great National congress to have gotten so tied up in knots by fringe elements?

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Response to annabanana (Reply #20)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 11:25 AM

21. Sorry. but this isn't true and it is reductio ad absurdum. It detracts from the real struggle.

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 02:21 PM

23. This isn't boogey man shit

I described Nicolae Ceaucescu's Decree 770, which banned abortion in Romania.

There can be two kinds of abortion ban. The first is a feel-good ban like Ireland has. Ireland has a ban on abortion...but they also have ferries to England and twelve women a day step on those ferries pregnant and return to England not-pregnant.

If there are any ways for women to obtain access to abortion, then an abortion ban in the US would be feel-good. Washington State had legal abortion pre-Roe. If it's state-by-state then places like CA, MA, WA and IL will become abortion meccas. Rich women did this pre-Roe...get out your copy of Animal House and look at the Daily Faberian displayed before the Deltas' trial. There is a story about Mrs. Wormer taking a tropical vacation...she wasn't going there to take in the sun but to end the pregnancy conceived at the toga party. That's what the rich do. I can see abortion clinic ads at Greyhound stations in Spokane, Boston and Chicago, and charities for us to donate to that provide bus tickets and rooms for women in red states. I also know there are safe ways to abort outside a surgical setting and brave people who would risk prison to do it.(Google 'menstrual extraction.')

The point is, if they actually want to stop abortions from happening they are going to have to lock this country down in a way you will not believe...the RWNJs talk about tyranny but that will be necessary to protect The Unborn Babies.

I also predict a very unpleasant week for any woman who miscarries because they'll need to be sure she didn't "miscarry on purpose" by eating something wrong, drinking beverages that might cause miscarriage or suddenly deciding jockeying race horses is a good hobby for pregnant women.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #23)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 05:35 PM

30. Ceaucescu? Seriously?

Yes, of course what you describe is what would happen should Roe be overturned but that is not the stuff in your op.

And what problem do you have that prevents you from comprehending what I've written in this thread, that Roe has been virtually abrogated in many states by making getting an abortion an onerous and demeaning process.

I'm not the one saying that they will have to lock this country down to prevent women from access, that's YOU IN YOUR RIDICULOUS OP.a

Damn I'm sick of dumb stuff.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 07:10 AM

5. There have always been abortions

The question is whether they can remain safe, legal and rare. If not, women will go back to dying.

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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 07:15 AM

6. In many states, their is very little access to abortion NOW

effectively abrogating a woman's right to choose.

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Response to cali (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 07:32 AM

7. I know, I've been following Rachel Maddow's reports on Kansas and Mississippi

When I was in my early 20s, I remember hearing a story about abortion from an older woman who had one before it was legal. She said that she went to Puerto Rico and was blindfolded so she wouldn't know where she was being taken. It sounded like a terrible nightmare, can't believe women had to go through that. But it's even harder for me to believe that we could ever return to those days...

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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 07:50 AM

9. My mother told be an awful story about how when she was in college

she accompanied a friend of hers to an illegal abortion. Her friend subsequently got ill, but did recover. My mother became a staunch supporter of legal abortion.

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Response to cali (Reply #9)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 08:06 AM

12. I just can't imagine. There has to be something wrong with those who support returning to that

Because that's what outlawing choice means. I found the thread that I was looking for on DU.2. This one ripped my heart out...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=217x9001

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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 03:30 PM

28. My Aunt had a "therapeutic" abortion in the early 50s

I guess it was a matter of where you lived and how much money you had. This was in NYC and she was a middle aged, married woman, who had an oops pregnancy during pre-menopause. The Doctor, who delivered her 2 daughters, performed the abortion, for a lot of money, and said she had a bad heart and the the pregnancy would put her life in danger.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #28)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 06:52 PM

31. OMG, I had not heard about that kind of thing

But I imagine, as always, that good medical care is available if you're wealthy.

My aunt's sister was diagnosed with MS shortly before she was planning to be married, also in the '50s. Family unsuccessfully tried to stop the marriage and when she became pregnant was forced to have an abortion. She subsequently got pregnant again and had one son who is one of the nicest people I know. I imagine he would have loved to have had a sibling.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 07:52 AM

11. There is a huge difference between having

autonomy over ones body, and owning firearm.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 02:40 PM

24. No kidding

The Right wants everything it likes preserved and everything it doesn't like banned.

They want guns preserved because the Minutemen - untrained people who grabbed muskets and rose to the occasion - drove off the British Army a couple hundred years ago. There are many problems with that, not the least of which is the Revolution, before Friedrich von Steuben came here and trained the patriots, was going England's way.

Similarly, they want abortion ended because they have this fantasy that women are just screwing like rabbits all over America with no regard for anything, and aborting pregnancies on Thursday so they can go back to screwing on Friday. There is so much evil in that I can't compile it all (beginning with the simple fact that if you had an abortion on Thursday the last thing you'd want to do on Friday is have sex!) but too many of them truly believe we think abortion is a form of birth control, and too many of them think BC is a form of abortion.

Remember: me good, you bad is their operating principle.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 09:05 AM

15. Their mantra is "all life is sacred"...unless they decide it isn't.

The mother whose life will be put in danger by giving birth? Her life isn't "sacred".
The person who committed a specific crime that has been deemed by a legislature to be worse than others? Their life isn't "sacred".
The person - soldier or not - who just happens to have been born in a country we've deemed to be our "enemy"? Their life isn't "sacred".
The animal whose meat is tasty when cooked? Its life isn't "sacred".

And on and on.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 09:08 AM

16. I don't think that abortion can be banned generally.

Perhaps *legal* abortion incrementally until it's universal, but not abortion itself. There will always be means to terminate a pregnancy whether it's DIY or an illegal system.

And I don't think you can effectively ban firearms or weapons. Laws can be passed but there will be ownership that is grandfathered into the legislation; there will be private sales; there will be secret hoarding. Unless the government is going to initiate unlawful (unconstitutional) searches of persons and private homes and places and then confiscate illegal weapons, you can't really ban them meaningfully. And even if weapons were taken, more would be obtained to replace them.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 10:30 AM

17. So, you want to find ways to stop abortion - without doing anything that actually stops abortion?

OTOH, if you're looking for ways to stop gun massacres - registering guns, licensing gun owners, background checks, having national gun laws, banning assault weapons & other tools of mass murder, etc, etc. DO WORK.

Simple logic says that the NRA propaganda technique of using abortion rights as an analogy for supposed gun rights doesn't work. Such is the dilemma of RW nutcases.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 10:34 AM

18. This is a truly counterproductive OP and I'm sorry to see that it's being accepted as valid

by DUers. The OP's scenario is not even close to being what really threatens abortion rights and ignores the reality.

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Response to cali (Reply #18)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 02:59 PM

25. Okay, here's reality for you

Why haven't we on the Left set up an underground abortion railroad yet?

We have states where abortion hasn't been heavily restricted yet.

We have lots of liberals with spare bedrooms in those states.

We have an interstate bus system called Greyhound that will take you long distances for not much money.

Also, what is the prescribing process for RU-486? I know blood can be mailed for tests. Could trained phlebotomists in no abortion states work with doctors in abortion states to do pill abortions cross border?

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #25)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 03:18 PM

27. You know, I'm glad you mentioned that. There are organizations doing just that

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 10:37 AM

19. True enough

I think they will be willing to go back to the way it was as a practical matter. They know they will still happen, but it will be more difficult and dangerous. Some of them will think of how modern technology can be used to prevent it and pregnancy tests have gotten easier, so if they had their way on the legality issue, the extremists would start suggesting the things you mentioned. A right winger who gains an inch will go for the mile.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 11:43 AM

22. How about vasectomies with circumcision?

No more babies.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 03:05 PM

26. While there are certainly zealots that indeed

want to ban abortion... by and large, the right wing just wants to keep banging the drum to raise insane amounts of money.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 03:54 PM

29. Don't fall for the right wing's crapola.

I am a male, I will never have an abortion. Only a Woman who is pregnant and her Doctor have any power over the action of selecting to abort the pregnancy or not. I, as a male should only have an influence in that the procedure should be safe and legally available to all Females.
Remember, the same "people", a term I use politely, who want to ban a Woman's Choice in this essentially private manner also want to limit the use of contraception, also an essentially private manner. In Oklahoma there is current legislation to do just that; make it difficult to obtain contraception.

http://newsok.com/abortion-and-contraception-coverage-opt-out-bill-heads-to-oklahoma-senate/article/3758031?custom_click=pod_headline_health

This ash hats actually believe that they are doing the right thing. And they may actually succeed.

So, don't fold to the selfish ideological arguments of the Right wing fundamentalists whose goal is to change our Government to a Theocracy. We can't let it happen. Look how the right wing corporatists are moving forward to limit voting rights with legal but very unethical means, most of us are frickin' asleep.

By the way, supporting Women's Rights does not mean every Woman will have an abortion at the first opportunity, it means that the Government, mostly old, fat, bald, mean fundamentalist christ worshippers won't have any power over how she lives and chooses to live.

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Response to jonthebru (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 01:03 AM

33. Thanks, jonthebru.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 07:47 PM

32. We could actually stop abortion.

Let's face it...no one likes abortions. Best way to (almost) stop it is by supporting Planned Parenthood. Their goal is to reduce or eliminate abortion...by using plain old common sense. Why do women want abortions? Because of unwanted pregnancy. So, if you eliminate unwanted pregnancy...no need for abortion. How? Education and healthcare. You teach girls about pregnancy and provide lots and lots of birth control. Not a fail safe plan...the best option there is.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 02:09 AM

34. They will ban abortion the day we ban guns

In other words...never....

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 02:24 AM

35. George Carlin: conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers.



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